49 replies to this topic

[Vilshöfer]

What was the biggest corner in F1`s history?

In the present many of you think it is Eau Rouge in Spa !

And in the past I dont think the same?

It was o, o whats the name of it ??????????????

[scheivlak]

Eau Rouge is certainly something, but I think in the ol' Francorchamps days the Masta Kink was something special too - just ask Keir about Chris Amon going flat through Masta in his record breaking last lap in 1970. Stavelot and Blanchimont are and were something as well.
Perhaps the chicanes before and after it have taken something away from the real grandeur of Monza's Curva Grande. IIRC Chris Amon (1968) might have an opinion about this as well....
I still remember (don't have it anymore) the Autosport report about the 1973 Silverstone British GP: how Jody Scheckter was at least 0.1 faster than everybody else through Woodcote during practice. In the actual GP, lap 1, he tried to go as fast as that again - we know the result...


and I think our American friends will tell us something about the 'Glen...

[jmp85]

in current F1, jean alesi has said that the scariest corner is blanchimont, also at spa. for him, eau rouge is too easy: the car is in compression, and with all the aerodynamics aids, you can almost take it flat-out. on the other hand, he finds that blanchimont is really a handful each lap around.

in the older f1, wasn't the burnenville corner (spa, again) about 1 kilometer long? that would make it the "biggest" corner...

cheers, jmp85

[flyboy]

The Esses at The Glen would rank with Eau Rouge among the corners I have seen. To do them right you had to be fully committed and if something went wrong it was going to be a Big One, as poor Cevert discovered.

[LittleChris]

I'd have to go for Burnenville as well. Downhill entry then slightly uphill on the exit, houses both sides of the road and built largely on an embankment with the sides falling away both sides of the road. Frightening !! Certainly Denis Jenkinson rated this corner & Masta as far more challenging than Eau Rouge.

Another frightener would have to be Six Freres at Rouen.

[jk]

The long lefthander before the back straight at Rouen was also one og the scariest (in GPL, at least).
In GPL, Burnenville isn't that challenging, but when you have to brake to make it through Malmedy, it really is the hardest point on the track!
Fuchsrohre, is also a fast, difficult corner.

[Rediscoveryx]

In GPL, I find Malmedy much more of a challenge than Masta.

Not that this necessarily means that it would be the case in real life...

Wasn't the first right hander at the original Österreichring (the one that was replaced by the Hella Licht chicane after the Mark Donohue tragedy) a pretty tough corner as well?

[jk]

I can tell you that it is a very cool corner in GPL!

[bobbo]

Let's see . . . Watkins Glen . . .

Not really difficult, but SO PRETTY!!!!! The Esses: Especially in the fall, with the leaves changing color, the fans, campers, tents, the colorful cars, the sheer beauty of an uphill set of turns, THE SOUND!!!

Yeah. For me, THAT's the biggest corner(s) in racing history.

Works for me, at least.

Bobbo

[Schummy]

Sadly I could not watch races on Watkings Glenn, but I love that track: lots of nice corners. But what stands out more for me is how dangerous it is! The Esses, The Loop, with its downhill entry, and the Tossa-like curved end of the fast back straigth are risky spots that could make Mosley faint We lost there Cevert, but sadly we lost so many drivers in so many places those years...

It's a joy to read about all those corners that all of you are talking of. There are so many of them around the world: 130R, Spoon, Esses in Suzuka, Dunlop, Tetre Rouge's Esses, Hunadieres, Mulsanne, Porsche Curves in Le Mans, Saint Devot, Tunnel, Tabac (and many more!) in Monaco, Peraltada in Mexico, huge lots of them in the Ring!, Parabolica in Monza, Tossa (pre 95) and Rivazza in Imola, etc, etc Very difficult to choose THE corner!

[byrkus]

How about Curva Grande or Vialone in Monza?? I can't think of Vialone before those chicanes blew it... It must've been quite a corner: over 250 kph at entry, and after it there was the long straight, leading to Parabolica. It can't be imagined today!! Sadly...

[Rediscoveryx]

What's really the deal with the last corner on the "Hermanos Rodriguez" circuit? Is it "Peralta" or "Peraltada"?

I've never seen it spelled "Peraltada" in any official circumstances. It's always "Peralta", yet every time I've heard an english commentator or driver referring to the corner, they've pronounced it "Peraltada".

What's correct and what's incorrect?

[Barry Boor]

jk, I think you may mean the long RIGHT-hander before the back straight at Rouen. It's called le Virage du Gresil IIRC.

Although I'm no Silverstone lover, may I endorse Schievlak's mention of the pre-chicane Woodcote? Ronnie was mighty through there in the Lotus 72. But then again, James Hunt passed him there on the outside in the Hesketh.

[mat1]

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
..

Wasn't the first right hander at the original Österreichring (the one that was replaced by the Hella Licht chicane after the Mark Donohue tragedy) a pretty tough corner as well?

Yes, I believe Lauda mentioned it as one of the most daunting corners, because the entry is blind. You come up on the hill, and not just the corner itself, but also the turnin-point cannot be seen, until the last moment of course.

mat

[Schummy]

Sorry for a little parenthesis in this thread, to relate about that corner Peralta/Peraltada in Mexico circuit.

Redixcoveryx: Yes, Peralta/Peraltada mess about its name is a puzzling one. I also saw the two names of the great corner about 50% each

I think the problem is because both names make sense in spanish: Peralta is a usual surname (and the corner itself could be named after certain person "Peralta") and "Peraltada" is spanish for "banked", what is pretty fitting for this banked curve.

In Forix and lots of other references I can see "Peralta" and, as you say, in many english references they say "Peraltada". When you posted the question I was resolved to search an answer in Internet! Of course I suppose somebody here in TNF (for example, a F1-wise mexican!) knows the answer for this conundrum, but I will tell my humble research.

Unfortunately I did not find an "official web site"... but I found a page by a mexican car racing entusiast who seems to know a lot about mexican car racing history: http://www.jsolana.com.mx/pista.html
There, we can see several times the name "Peraltada". Then my doubt (and maybe yours also ) can be considered as (almost totally) resolved. For me it will be "Peraltada" for now on! ... until somebody really learned on it can say us another thing.

[Catalina Park]

The Hungaroring....... Now thats one big corner

[rolando]

The legendary banked curve in the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, is called 'Peraltada', I have just seen the Peralta name in english race reports

It used to be a very challenging corner, Ayrton Senna tried to take it once in 6th gear and he lost control, and finished in the gravel.
Just remembering Mansell's pass on Berger in the 1990 Mexican Grand Prix makes my heart beat faster, he overtook him just entering the dangerous corner in the outside part of it!!!

Sadly, now they called it the "ex-peraltada" because the banked has been reduced, it is a joke compared to last GP held in 1992.

In the early 60's the curve seems to me a lot more dangerous, in fact Ricardo Rodriguez lost his life almost 40 years ago, there were poles very near the curve, Ricardo's Lotus crashed with one of this this.

[deangelis86]

Not forgetting Signes, the fast right hander after the long pit straight at Paul Ricard.

I think that Eau Rouge has to be the biggest challenge ever faced by a racing driver. It sorts the boys from the men.

[pancho]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Zandvoort's Tarzan. It rewards late-brakers and punishes those who come unstuck (Arnoux, Daly etc.) Not the fastest or longest corner, of course, but 180 degrees of Hugenholtz genius! Also Schievlak, a little further round. Another testing corner that drivers found challenging.

[mhferrari]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
The Hungaroring....... Now thats one big corner

Bloody shame almost all these corners are no longer raced upon.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by pancho
[Also Schievlak, a little further round. Another testing corner that drivers found challenging.

Actually, it's Scheivlak - the medium fast corner suddenly descending to Tunnel Oost where I watched the great 1971 Dutch GP held in cold en wet conditions, with the epic Ickx/Rodriguez battle. It was a corner where one could observe a big difference in performance that day between the Firestone- and the Goodyear-shod cars. Firestones finished 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 IIRC. Still there was one single Goodyear shod car that went at least as fast at Scheivlak as the average Firestone performer: Jean Pierre Beltoises Matra-Simca (I can still remember that V12 shriek ;) - as well as the whistle of the Lotus 56B making its GP debut). JPB had his brilliant moments now and then in the rain.

[mhferrari]

Hence, your name.

[scheivlak]

Yes, I refrained from calling myself Tarzan... (OOOWWOOOWWWOOOWW)

[mat1]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Yes, I refrained from calling myself Tarzan... (OOOWWOOOWWWOOOWW)

I think btw Scheivlak is now Zandvoorts most difficult corner. In the old days the fast section in the back was also daunting (Tunnel-Oost etc), and of course BosUit, but they are gone now.

mat1

[BRG]

I think that my favourites (in no particular order) are:

Paddock Hill Bend (Brands Hatch) - a sweeping downhill right hander, immediately followed by the compression of Deer's Leap which caught out many a good driver.
the original Woodcote (Silverstone) - banzai!!!
Bridge Bend (Silverstone) - almost flat right under the bridge straight into braking zone for the complex. So naturally Bridge will be no more when the new Silverstone layout is built shortly!
Blanchimont (Spa)
Signes (Paul Ricard)
130R (Suzuka)
Tarzan (Zandvoort)
Parabolica (Monza)

[pancho]

I suppose you could add the entire Nordschleiff to this list.

[stavelot]

Originally posted by deangelis86

I think that Eau Rouge has to be the biggest challenge ever faced by a racing driver. It sorts the boys from the men.

In the Eau Rouge is a location the drivers don't see the track but only the sky.

[Jhope]

scheivlak was daunting in it's day.

[jrosenzweig]

Most of the corners at Lobethal Not even Ray's photos that he posted here a long time ago do it justice. You have to drive it yourself to believe it.

[BMW FW22]

Masta !!!!!!!

[Keir]

Speaking strictly from a GPL perspective, Burnenville can be pretty scary as can Stavelot and the Masta Kink. The old Solitude circuit has it's share of moments as well. Zandvoort, to me, is one long straight followed by constant rhythmical turns, get one wrong and the rest are screwed as well!! The Bern circuit is quite a dandy, if you are interested in high speed thrills. The esses at the "hallowed" Watkins Glen is always a challenge.

Hey, scheivlak, get yourself over to the "famous Amon" thread. You mentioned the "Golden Kiwi" twice in one post. That's worth the price of entry in itself!!

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Keir
Hey, scheivlak, get yourself over to the "famous Amon" thread. You mentioned the "Golden Kiwi" twice in one post. That's worth the price of entry in itself!!

Well Keir, as you might guess, I'd already sneaked past the box-office to do some lurkin';)

[Udo K.]

I opt for Eau Rouge as well, but would add the "Fuchsröhre" of the Nürburgring. Everyone who went through there even with a normal roadgoing car will know...

[mat1]

Originally posted by Udo K.
I opt for Eau Rouge as well, but would add the "Fuchsröhre" of the Nürburgring. Everyone who went through there even with a normal roadgoing car will know...

Yes, that's right. But Schwedenkreuz is more dangerous Ithink...

[oldtimer]

Didn't the Bremergarten (sp?) circuit in Switzerland have a corner or two that would make you suck on your breath?

It is interesting how the increasing cornering speeds of F1 cars have changed the perception of difficult corners. Thus we see Eau Rouge as a current benchmark whereas in earlier days it was not talked of as either demanding or awesome.

Likewise the old Woodcote at Silverstone. In the 50s and 60s, Becketts was considered the most challenging (out of a poor bunch). If you over-cooked it at Woodcote, there was plenty of grass to use to use to recover, and such use was not uncommon. On the other hand, watching Peterson in the 70s with his Lotus all-a-quiver in Woodcote was awesome, and made me suck on my breath.

[Barry Boor]

I think Oldtimer has a good point. Presumably, Eau Rouge, in the fifties was a corner for which the driver had to brake quite hard, change down a couple of gears (at least), drive through and up and away. What has made it daunting is that the grip and downforce of the modern car has made it so fast that it has now become the challenge that it is.

I expect this would be the same for many corners from old circuits; IF we were fortunate enough to be able to watch modern cars on them!

[911]

Masta
Curva Grande (BC = Before Chicanes)
Hella Licht (BC)
Eau Rouge
Stowe (BC)
Rivazza - Andretti called that one of the worst! (BC)

[mat1]

Originally posted by 911

Hella Licht (BC)

Rivazza - Andretti called that one of the worst! (BC)

Re Hella licht: that corner is gone, I thought...

(or am I wrong in supposing you mean the fast right hander after the straight at the Oesterreichring?)

mat1

[LittleChris]

Mat1,

I think they mean the original Hella Licht or Mercedes corner as it was first known where Mark Donohue crashed.

Chris

[unrepentant lurker]

Originally posted by 911
Masta
Stowe (BC)
Rivazza - Andretti called that one of the worst! (BC)

Stow is still a fairly big corner. As far as I know, it hasn't been modified much and is very quick. Becketts has changed some, but they still exit going very quick indeed.

Re: Rivazza, do you mean at Imola. The Variante Alta chicane has been there since the begining of it F1 days. I read in someones description of a lap that on Friday you need to brake very early, but by Sunday with the rubber you can go very late and the corner is relatively quick.

[2Bob]

Did a search but couldn't find a similar thread so...

I have a couple, or three, nominations - the sweeper at the end (or in the middle of depending on your car's handling I guess) the pit straight at Phillip Island.

Right hand sweeper onto the straight at Westwood (Vancouver) - now defunct.

Right hand fastish corner after start finish straight at Mallala.

Why? In each case they were/are all a bit heart in mouth for the driver and good when you got them right.

Looking at pictures the corkscrew Laguna Sega looks 'interesting'.

[cosworth bdg]

My 2 favourite corners are 1. eau - rouge @Spa and 2 , the right hand sweeper at the end of the back straight at Sandow Park . This last pic was fantastic in the days of twin cam AF2 ,a good driver would and could take this sweeper FLAT-OUT with out backing off on the throttle. The old Sandown Park brings back many memories with both TWIN-CAM AF2 cars and F5000 in their hey days.......Cheers.......

[2Bob]

... All fast corners (depending on the car of course), sorts the men from the boys and more time at the ragged edge twiddling the steering wheel hoping to get it right! Do away with aero devices I say.

[cosworth bdg]

Yes they do sort out the men from the boys and also car handling ,whether the driver or engineer has got it correct..............

[Ray Bell]

Fast corners that culminate in heavy braking areas are the real good ones...

The ess bend at Warwick Farm comprising the right hander off the Northern Crossing and the lefthander past the lake... then brake for the Causeway.

Lukey Heights followed by MG.

I actually prefer Southern Loop to South Curve... South Curve is just a 'breathe in and get around there...', Southern Loop is a single curve that requires a change in line halfway through due to the change in elevation.

[john aston]

To watch...Bridge at Silverstone is something.Am no fan of the circuit but because of the elevated spectating position you can get a real insight into different techniques.It brings out your inner Mark Hughes.To drive- and to watch- Coppice at Cadwell Park.UK's best circuit.Deer Leap at Oulton- not a corner at all but a good place to get a face and earful of racer close up.

[sterling49]

Paddock Hill Bend at Brands in the '60's and '70's, so very hard to get right. no apex to see, and it falls away as you would not believe, the undoing of so many racers whether at the entry to the bend, mid corner or on the exit, great to go round fast if on the correct line!

I never travelled to Silverstone much as a youngster, in fact my 1st trip was the '73 GP and I watched practice at the 150mph Woodcote.........Ronnie Peterson/JYS et al.........nuf said

[stevewf1]

I remember reading that the first two corners on the old Interlagos circuit were pretty demanding...

(I'll probably catch it for this, but what the heck)... How about turn 1 (or 3) at Indy? In the mid-90s, I think entry speeds were close to 240 mph and there of course was no run-off...

[Sharman]

There was nothing to compare with the old Knickerbrook at Oulton, having been through it myself at relatively modest speed i.e. as fast as I dared, as a spectator I could positively FEEL the quick lads going pale as they turned in.

[Stephen W]

1967 and my first trip to a Grand Prix week-end was at Silverstone. As I and my father walked into the Woodcote stands and settled down the F1 cars came out to practice. The sight of Rindt in the Cooper-Maserati, Dan Gurney in the Eagle, Jim Clark and Graham Hill in the Lotus 49 DFVs and Chris Amon in the Ferrari coming through in full blooded power slides is an image that is still fresh in my mind. Another later Woodcote memory is of Keke Rosberg smashing the unofficial lap record in practice with the Williams-Honda whilst still managing to monster the stupid chicane kerbs!

Fast forward to the 80s and whilst on a trip to Spa for the Grand Prix I bumped into a couple of British marshals behind the l'Eau Rouge stand. Seconds later and I am stood with them track-side! It was wonderful as the cars swept through with sparks showering from the undertrays!

1987 and Mexico City and on the Saturday I am sat in the massive stand overlooking the Peraltada. What is amazing is that the place is almost deserted and I can wander round getting the best vantage point. Despite being some distance from the cars it is a phenominal corner with the cars straining to fly off the track!

Which is the best corner? That is difficult to say; my vote would have to go to the 1967 Woodcote, not just because of the image still glowing so bright in my memory but because the cars lacked any downforce and the tyres were so hard. These men were on the limit and as for run-off sure there was 20 foot of grass on the outside of the corner but then it was an earth bank with vertically implanted railway sleepers at the foot of it! It took courage and a hell of a lot of confidence in your own skill to nail it through Woodcote in those days!