Auto Union question
#1
Posted 03 November 2001 - 20:38
Why/when did Auto Union become Audi? This Audi S8 test drive program on Speedvision is referring to the Auto Unions as 'the silver arrows' but I thought that was a tag reserved for Mercedes-Benz.
Where's a good place to answer any other questions I might have, and to get a brief and simple history of Audi/Auto Union racing?
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#2
Posted 03 November 2001 - 20:47
I believe it became just Audi after World War II, either in the 1940's or 1950's.
A Road & Track article a few years back had an article about Auto Union/Audi, but I can't remember exactly when.
#3
Posted 03 November 2001 - 21:14
DKW lived on after WWII, I remember those two-stroke machines in the late 50´s. I have also a mind picture of Audis, most likely the same car as DKW but another brand?
Next memory is the Audis that came out in the 70´s.
Silver Arrows were both the Mercedes and the Auto Unions of the 30´s
Per
#4
Posted 03 November 2001 - 21:35
#5
Posted 03 November 2001 - 21:47
#6
Posted 03 November 2001 - 21:52
Of the companies which formed A-U, only DKW bounced back in the immediate post-War years (and do I ever remember those popppa-pop-pop two-strokes...). Audi was the result of some German auto industry realignments on the late '60s and early '70s. All this is off the top of my head so error alert -- DKW and NSU merged and then NSU became Audi. There are no end of machinations I am leaving out, but is the Readers' Digest Very Condensed Version of what happened.
#7
Posted 03 November 2001 - 22:28
I dont know, but I've always assumed that the relationship between Audi and Horch pre-dates the 1930s auto-Union combine, as both mean "I hear" in Latin and German respectively. From time to time there are rumours that VAG plan to revive the Horch name with a rival to the S-Class Mecedes.
Some years ago Audi trade-marked the term "silver arrow", so that's what they are despite what history may tell you. Of course, the Grand Prix Auto-Union were dynamically the antithesis of an arrow, and they shouldn't have been silver, but that's another story.
#8
Posted 03 November 2001 - 22:30
Felix
#9
Posted 04 November 2001 - 00:30
#10
Posted 04 November 2001 - 00:46
#11
Posted 04 November 2001 - 03:17
Thanks for the entertaing condensed Audi history.
#12
Posted 04 November 2001 - 04:15
#13
Posted 04 November 2001 - 10:22
#14
Posted 27 June 2002 - 20:58
AU was founded in 1932 by the pressure of a bank consortium. Audi (depending to DKW since 1928) DKW and Horch had -everybody for itself - no more money after these depression years after the dark friday in 1929. So Mr. Rasmussen the founder of DKW, gave up his shares, and DKW was renamed in AU, which overtook Horch and the car department of Wanderer. Audi depends to DKW since 1928. I think more than 90% of the shares were hold by the saxonia national bank. And AU had lived until 1948 in (then they were unregistered- the story was over in eastern germany).
Those of the chairmans -Carl Hahn and Richard Bruhn- , who went to the west in may 1945, left new chairmans back, which looked more positv to the russians -for example Hans Schüler-, who was accepted by the russians. This Hans Schüler went to the west in 1948, when a new "Industrie Auffang Gesellschaft" was founded in Ingolstadt, with the AU Filiale in Munich, which officially depends to the AU AG in eastern germany, which excists at that time. This constellation tried with the old chairmans -Carl Hahn and Richard Bruhn- and many of the "old guys from saxonia" to start a new automobil-productin in ingolstadt. Schüler now was in the role to give all the rights from (AU east) to the new AU (west). So at the same adress in ingolstadt: Schrannenstr. 3 were to excisting Auto Unions, which didn't belong together, but only over Schüler who worked ojn both paysrols.
AU (west) was always affraid until 1954-56 about the GDR (German democratic republic), that they wanted to have money. Cause the AU (east: Chemnitz and now Ingolstadt - think about that funny situation about thecopyrights on one hadn and the iron curtain on the other) was about the ingolstadt connection shareholder in the AU (west) represented by Schüler. So they were always affraid the GDR could came and say these changes of rights, drafts and so on are all bulls....
Especially, when the IFA started the production of the IFA F9 (3-cyl two-stroke engine) in east germany and sold in western europe, which depends on the same plans, than the DKF F 89(2-cyl two-stroke engine), later with nearly the same 3-cyl two-stroke engine like the eastern version.
Going on with the story:
Since 1955/56 AU in the west didn't make good business (They had problems with selling motorcycles) and hadn't innovations in car production, the DKW Draft depends on plans from 1939 and was sold even until 1962 (a little bit like the beetle story - but this car was less expensive). So MB overtokk AU in 1958(!) and than MB sold the uggly daughter (in two times to VW 1964/65) which never stopped the development of two stroke engines, MB wanted to have 4-stroke engines in that DKW F 102 -later Audi 60 (look at michaels post)- to produce beetles. After constructing the bestseller Audi 100, which was presented in 1968, Auto Union, the cars were named Audi got more image. In 1969 VW bought NSU, the AUTO UNION was implementated in NSU. But at the chairman table until 1971 there was Audi spoken. Conclusion. I told you it's a horror, and I made it very short.
The AU (west) never depends to the AU (east) AND Audi never depends to the AU(west). The AU (east- based on the rest in western germany and Hans Schüler) was renamed in Autania AG and is now selling houses.
Everything clear?
#15
Posted 28 June 2002 - 09:21
By the way, up into the 1990s, Audis sold here in the Netherlands were registered as Auto Unions. I could scan my registration, which claims I drive an AU...
#16
Posted 28 June 2002 - 15:10
Originally posted by Bostromi
Silver Arrows were both the Mercedes and the Auto Unions of the 30´s
Originally posted by Roger Clark
Some years ago Audi trade-marked the term "silver arrow", so that's what they are despite what history may tell you.
To my knowledge there were Silberpfeile (MB) and Silberfische (AU), so why would Audi trademark the "wrong" name?
#17
Posted 28 June 2002 - 15:45
don' t believe everything. Silberpfeile for both AU and MB was and is right.
#18
Posted 28 June 2002 - 16:10
#19
Posted 28 June 2002 - 17:25
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#20
Posted 28 June 2002 - 19:13
#21
Posted 01 October 2002 - 00:51
Eberan von Eberhorst, the Auto Union chief engineer - C-Typ, the right hand in for Porsche at AU (1933-37) and later on, the chief constructor of the AU D-Typ (1938/39) describes the construction the Swiss car magazine "automobilrevue" in 1948. But he'd never talked about the "Silverarrows" (including MB). Also an AU brochure (Siege in drei Erdteilen = Victories over three continents) from 1936 never talked about the "Silverarrows". We can find that name later on in the press, but not so useful and normal, that Eberan used it after the 2nd WW.
#22
Posted 01 October 2002 - 15:48
#23
Posted 01 October 2002 - 17:49
#24
Posted 01 October 2002 - 17:53
#25
Posted 01 October 2002 - 18:30
I wonder if this is true:
August Horch sold his company and started a new car factory. As he was not allowed to call it Horch, he used the latin word Audi, which also means "listen" or "hear this".
Stefan
#26
Posted 01 October 2002 - 20:02
Audi is the latin translation of the german word Horch. The story in Horch biography tells us. that Horch was in the house of a good friend and business partner, while searching a new name. The Horch company had registered 22 combinations with the word Horch, after Horch had to left the company. because of spending so much mopney with motorsport (unsuccessfull). While they were searching. the son in the next room was listining and problably said, why not to use the name Audi, which means the same in latin, than Horch in german.
#27
Posted 01 October 2002 - 22:27
Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
Fascinating thread.
I wonder if this is true:
August Horch sold his company and started a new car factory. As he was not allowed to call it Horch, he used the latin word Audi, which also means "listen" or "hear this".
And thank you for the explanation, Holger.
One of my favourite subjects... but this is a new twist...
Most who go out of business and start up again ... or who did in the past, particularly in the first decade of the twentieth century ... used their initials... Albert Champion, Eric Foden, Ransom Olds etc...
None of them resorted to linguistics... a great way to do it!
#28
Posted 01 October 2002 - 22:47
DCN
#29
Posted 01 October 2002 - 23:40
plsxpln?
#30
Posted 02 October 2002 - 06:12
Volvo is also latin, means I'm rolling (moving).
#31
Posted 02 October 2002 - 06:41
the question; in what years and how often did the "twisted cross" appear on the auto unions flanks???[i suspect this has been covered before..]
hey! dennis..we're close[i'm in palo alto]...you should four-wheel it over ....we can compare german machines and we could fire up the bug and have a blast up the street......
#32
Posted 02 October 2002 - 07:33
And congrats to the 2002 A6 Avant quattro. quattro is the best you can have on the road, Especially here in switzeland, when you go to the mountains, I like the feeling just to pass all that MB and BMW on the way to the top with turbo power.