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1946 AAA National Championship


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#1 fines

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 00:21

It is quite well known that the American Automobile Association manipulated their own National Championship results in the twenties, "creating" new champions and "revising" the 1920 results. Less well known is the fact that the Triple A also tampered with the 1946 championship, which originally included a number of sprint car events as well as the 6 champ car races of that year.

In the "official" AAA record books, carried over by USAC and CART in later years, only those six results are being considered. Who knows which, or how many for that matter, sprint car races were part of the 1946 championship? Anyone with results I dare to ask?

With the help of a few casual remarks and the starting numbers in 1947, I have reconstructed the final standings as shown below, with the points total from the 6 champ car results:

 1 Ted Horn		   1,360

 2 George Robson	  1,220

 3 Emil Andres		1,260

 4 Elbert Booker		 60 (?)

 5 Tommy Hinnershitz	  0

 6 Walt Ader			  0

 7 Jimmy Jackson		800

 8 Joie Chitwood		127.5

 9 Rex Mays			 600

10 Duke Dinsmore		310

11 Louis Durant		 400

12 George Connor		340

13 Paul Russo			 0

14 Tony Bettenhausen	340

15 Billy DeVore		 290

16 Cliff Bergere		  0

17 Luigi Villoresi	  300
Can anyone help here to make the picture more complete?

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 12:34

The Indianapolis 500 was always a round, carrying heavily weighted points because of its distance. I have seen no reference to additional 1946 rounds other than the six dirt-track races.
First three places in the seven rounds (where I know them) were:
Indianapolis 500 30/5
1 George Robson (Adams-Sparks)
2 Ted Horn (Maserati)
3 Emil Andres (Maserati)

Langhorne 100 30/6
1 Rex Mays (Stevens-Winfield)
2 George Robson (Wetteroth-Offenhauser)
3 Ted Horn (Horn-Offenhauser)

Lakewood Park, Atlanta 04/07
1 Rex Mays (Stevens-Winfield)

Atlanta 200 01/09
1 George Connor
shortened to 98 miles after the accident which took the lives of George Robson and George Barringer

Indiana Fairgrounds 100 08/09
1 Rex Mays (Stevens-Winfield)
2 Mauri Rose (Lencki)
3 Emil Andres (Stevens-Offenhauser)

Milwaukee 100 22/09
1 Rex Mays (Stevens-Winfield)
2 Ted Horn (Horn-Offenhauser)
3 Tony Bettenhausen (Olsen-Offenhauser)

Goshen 100 06/10
1 Tony Bettenhausen (Olsen-Offenhauser)
2 Ted Horn (Horn-Offenhauser)
3 Duke Dismore (Wetteroth-Offenhauser)

The final championship order I have is 1st Horn, 2nd Andres, 3rd Robson

#3 FEV

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 14:02

This is a great info Michael ! I had never heard about this !
Like David I have a source (Cohin as always !) talking of sixth Dirt Track race apart from the five others you mention. This is the July 4th Atlanta race at Lakewood. But unlike David, Cohin says Ted Horn won this 50 (?) mile event. The short distance is surprising for a Big Car race, so it might be one of the Sprint Car races you are looking for (?). Average speed of Horn was said to be 113,958 km/h (70.81 mph). I have no other information about this race.

#4 FEV

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 14:16

BTW, does anyone know Gordon E. White who sells (too expensive for me !) a lot of AAA/USAC microfilms some of which might have the results you are looking for ?
Here is his list and contact : http://www.crosslink...white/micro.htm

#5 anjakub

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 16:24

The American Automobile Association championship season 1946 (PDF)

see: http://motorsport.co...year.asp?Y=1946

#6 fines

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 18:14

Thanks so far for the replies, we're headed in the right direction. The second Lakewood date was news to me, although I knew that Atlanta had several meetings on Independance day throughout the fourties. Some were IMCA, though.

Two winners for one event don't make me terribly happy, but since Cohin's info comes complete with average speed, I tend to believe him on this. I also know that Horn won at least one race, because in 1958 it was remarked that Tony Bettenhausen had been the first National Champion without a race win.

Frank, I do know Gordon White, he's a regular at the Racing History e-group, where I am a (lurking) member. He's doing a fantastic job, preserving all those journals on microfilms, but unless I know specific issues to look for, there's just no use to buy the films, I'm no millionaire! :rolleyes: :(

This is my stand so far on 1946:

May 30, 30th Indianapolis 500, Indianapolis Motor Speedway

1 George Robson, #16, Thorne Engineering Corp., Adams/Sparks, 200 laps, 1000 points
2 Jimmy Jackson, #61, Jimmy Jackson, Miller/Offenhauser, 200 laps, 800 points
3 Ted Horn, #29, Boyle Racing Headquarters, Maserati 8CTF, 200 laps, 700 points
4 Emil Andres, #18, Frank Brisko, Maserati 8CTF, 200 laps, 600 points
5 Joie Chitwood/Sam Hanks, #24, Fred Peters, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 200 laps, 127.5 (130) points
6 Louis Durant, #33, Milt Marion, Alfa Romeo 308, 200 laps, 400 points
7 Luigi Villoresi, #52, Corvorado Filippini, Maserati 8CL, 200 laps, 300 points
8 Frank Wearne, #7, Ervin Wolfe, Shaw/Offenhauser, 197 laps, flagged, 250 points
9 Bill Sheffler, #39, Bill Sheffler, Bromme/Offenhauser, 139 laps, flagged, 200 points
10 Billy DeVore, #17, William Schoof, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 167 laps, accident, 150 points
11 Mel Hansen, #41, Ross Page, Kurtis/Duray, 143 laps, engine, 100 points
12 Russ Snowberger/Duke Nalon, #25, R. A. Cott, Maserati 8CTF, 134 laps, differential, 38.75 (39) points

Jun 30, 3rd Langhorne 100, Langhorne Speedway

1 Rex Mays, #1, Bowes Racing Inc., Stevens/Winfield, 100 laps, 200 points
2 George Robson, #16, Shirley (Cliff) Bergere, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 100 laps, 160 points
3 Ted Horn, #24, Fred Peters, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 100 laps, 140 points
4 Emil Andres, #44, Emil Andres/Montgomery Ward, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 91 laps, flagged, 120 points
5 Billy DeVore, #17, William Schoof, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 88 laps, flagged, 100 points
6 Buddy Rush, #37, Bud Bardowski, ?/Studebaker, 84 laps, flagged, 80 points
7 Walt Brown, #7, Norm Olson, ?/Offenhauser, 78 laps, retired, 60 points
8 Hal Robson, #31, Louis Rassey, Snowberger/Offenhauser, 72 laps, retired, 50 points
9 George Connor, #38, Ed Walsh, Kurtis/Offenhauser, 55 laps, magneto, 40 points
10 Danny Goss, #55, Jack Dixon, Clemons, 44 laps, retired
11 Lee Wallard, #33, Milt Marion, Alfa Romeo 308, 25 laps, retired
12 Mauri Rose, #9, Joe Lencki, Lencki, 22 laps, accident

Sep 2, 1st Atlanta 100, Lakewood Speedway

1 George Connor, #38, Ed Walsh, Kurtis/Offenhauser, 98 laps, 200 points
2 Steve Truchan, #28, Jimmy Chai, ?/Offenhauser, 98 laps, 160 points
3 Emil Andres, #44, Emil Andres/Montgomery Ward, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 97 laps, flagged, 140 points
4 Bud Bardowski, #37, Bud Bardowski, ?, 96 laps, flagged, 120 points
5 Joe Langley, #55, Jack Dixon, Clemons, 95 laps, flagged, 100 points
6 Ted Horn, #24, Fred Peters, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 97 laps, retired, 80 points
7 George Robson, #16, Shirley (Cliff) Bergere, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, ? laps, fatal accident, 60 points
8 George Barringer, #7, Ervin Wolfe, Shaw/Offenhauser, ? laps, fatal accident, 50 points
9 Billy DeVore, #17, William Schoof, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, ? laps, accident, 40 points
10 Duke Dinsmore, #3, Norm Olson, ?/Offenhauser, ? laps, retired
11 Rex Mays, #12, Richard Palmer, Stevens/Offenhauser, 23 laps, oil pressure
no more starters

Sep 15, 1st Indianapolis 100, Indiana State Fair Park

1 Rex Mays, #1, Bowes Racing Inc., Stevens/Winfield, 100 laps, 200 points
2 Mauri Rose, #9, Joe Lencki, Lencki, 99 laps, flagged, 160 points
3 Emil Andres, #44, Emil Andres/Montgomery Ward, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 99 laps, flagged, 140 points
4 Ted Horn, #24, Fred Peters, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 99 laps, flagged, 120 points
5 Tony Bettenhausen, #67, Bill Corley (?), Wetteroth/Offenhauser (?), 99 laps, flagged, 100 points
6 Floyd Davis, #17, William Schoof, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 98 laps, flagged, 80 points
7 George Connor, #38, Ed Walsh, Kurtis/Offenhauser, 98 laps, flagged, 60 points
8 Al Miller, #25, R. A. Cott, Maserati 8CTF (?), 98 laps, flagged, 50 points
9 Steve Truchan, #28, Jimmy Chai, ?/Offenhauser, 88 laps, engine, 40 points
10 Spider Webb, #45, Fred Johnston, Adams/Offenhauser, 77 laps, clutch, 30 points
11 Duke Dinsmore, #37, Norm Olson, ?/Offenhauser, 54 laps, oil loss, 20 points
12 Elbert Booker, #31, Louis Rassey, Snowberger/Offenhauser, 11 laps, engine

Sep 22, 3rd Milwaukee 100, Wisconsin State Fair Park, West Allis

1 Rex Mays, #1, Bowes Racing Inc., Stevens/Winfield, 100 laps, 200 points
2 Ted Horn, #24, Fred Peters, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 100 laps, 160 points
3 Emil Andres, #44, Emil Andres/Montgomery Ward, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 100 laps, 140 points
4 Duke Dinsmore, #17, William Schoof, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 100 laps, 120 points
5 Charlie Rogers, #71, Lawrence Jewell, Miller/Hal, 100 laps, 100 points
6 Mauri Rose, #9, Joe Lencki, Lencki, 99 laps, fuel pump, 80 points
7 Elbert Booker, #31, Louis Rassey, Snowberger/Offenhauser, 94 laps, engine, 60 points
8 Spider Webb, #45, Fred Johnston, Adams/Offenhauser, 65 laps, engine, 50 points
9 Tony Bettenhausen, #67, Bill Corley, Wetteroth/Offenhauser (?), 50 laps (?), oil line, 40 points
10 George Connor, #38, Ed Walsh, Kurtis/Offenhauser, 46 laps, axle
11 George Metzler, #55, Jack Dixon, Clemons, 40 laps, accident
12 Bud Bardowski, #87, Bud Bardowski, ?/Offenhauser, 35 laps, spark plugs

Oct 6, 2nd Goshen 100, Goshen Speedway

1 Tony Bettenhausen, #7, Paul Russo, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 100 laps, 200 points
2 Ted Horn, #24, Fred Peters, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 99 laps, flagged, 160 points
3 Duke Dinsmore, #17, William Schoof, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 99 laps, flagged, 140 points
4 Emil Andres, #44, Emil Andres/Montgomery Ward, Wetteroth/Offenhauser, 99 laps, flagged, 120 points
5 Charlie Rogers, #71, Lawrence Jewell, Miller/Hal, 98 laps, flagged, 100 points
6 Eddie Casterline, #37, Norm Olson, ?/Offenhauser, 98 laps, flagged, 80 points
7 Fred Carpenter, #31, Spencer Gardner (?), ?, 70 laps, overheating, 60 points
8 George Metzler, #55, Jack Dixon, Clemons, 59 laps, accident, 50 points
9 George Connor, #38, Ed Walsh, Kurtis/Offenhauser, 55 laps, oil pressure, 40 points
10 Bud Bardowski, #87, Bud Bardowski, ?/Offenhauser, 47 laps, engine
no more starters

Info comes mostly from Phil Harms, plus my own research.

Keep digging!

#7 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 08 December 2001 - 19:26

Russ Catlin's 1949 book The Life of Ted Horn has the following table.

AAA National Point Standings - 1946

1 Ted Horn 2250
2 George Robson 1484
3 Emil Andres 1208
4 Bill Holland 1115.8
5 Jimmy Jackson 800
6 T.Hinnershitz 769.8
7 Walt Ader 721
8 Joie Chitwood 623
9 Rex Mays 613
10 Duke Dinsmore 454

#8 fines

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Posted 09 December 2001 - 12:38

Ahh, great Milan! This is really hotting up! Does the book have more info on the races, e.g. those won by Horn?

#9 fines

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Posted 09 December 2001 - 23:14

A bit of searching via Google revealed a few possible races:

Aug 4: Chicago ?

Aug 11: Genesee County Fair in Batavia, NY

Oct 12: Strawberry Hill Raceway at the Atlantic Rural Expositions Grounds in Richmond, the site of Richmond International Raceway today, winner was Ted Horn

Date ?: Williams Grove, winner Walt Ader

I also found a site with hundreds of CRA sprint car results from 1946 onwards! If someone is interested, the address is http://www.scrafan.com/CRAseason.html

#10 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 10 December 2001 - 03:25

Here are some excerpts from the chapter on the 1946 season.

The last day of March Ted was at Atlanta for the first of three big race events he was to run there this year. Back under AAA sanction and the field was eager and hungry...

34,362 Georgia Crackers lined the confines of Lakewood for the big event..... Jimmy Wilburn won the main all alone, as again Horn and Chitwood duelled. Again Baby [Horn's car] was the winner for second spot.

The Grove opened April 15th, and 41,753 watched as Walt Ader put a Gem into first with Chitwood besting Ted for the "place." On the 19th, the positions were reversed. Horn, Chitwood and Ader. May 5th, Chitwood was in front at Trenton, Ted second, and the next day, back at the Grove it was Chitwood, Ader, Horn....

Then Ted arrived at Indianapolis....(you have the results of that race]...

Ted didn't wait for the [Indy] banquet. The next day he had the "Little Dandy" at Reading, getting between Ader and Holland at the finish. Atlanta again and a victory, after trailing Indianapolis winner Robson for 49 laps. Langhorne, the Grove, Dubois, Flemington - three wins and leading the fourth when a tyre blew, and Ted crashed the fence. Robson won that one.

Second to Holland at Washington, Pa., and Robson at Columbus, Ohio. Wins at Uniontown and Hamburg, then second to Holland at Batavia. A trip up to Skowhegan, Maine and Baby showed her fine colours to the sea people. Back to Rutland, Vt., and second behind Wallard. Victories at Altamont and Bedford.....

September opened with a big 100 mile championship race at Atlanta. Over $14,000 was in the pot, with first place paying better than $3,000.38,00 fans packed every inch of space around the big mile track. Indianapolis pilots by the score were on hand, and Ted qualified for the big event. So did Billy DeVore, George Barringer, Steve Truchan, George Connor, Bud Bardy and George Robson. Smiling George, winner of his first big race in 1946 at Indianapolis......

The field got under way. Before five circuits of the oval were made, red clay dust followed the field...

Now Ted was "flying blind." Watched the tree tops to keep his course, but in the third turn there were no trees. A big "No Fishing" sign on the bank was his signal to turn. Ted was watching for the sign when a car loomed out of the dust, cruising on the inside. Ted just missed it - then again it happened - the pit signalled two more laps - thank goodness this one's ending. Ted was looking up for the fishing sign and a car came down out of the dust and landed on his hood. Ted skidded and ground to a stop....One [car] was down through the fence in the lake...Another lay crumpled near the rail..... Robson and Barringer had made their last lap....
Ted was given first place that day, and a big jump in championship points. Little George, who had led the point standing from the outset due to his victory at Indianapolis, would never carry the national title of his adopted country.

Championship events were coming up fast now. Big crowds - the biggest yet seen - were turning out for the jousting. Records were going right and left. Ted sold one of his Gems to Chitwood, and the car paid for itself in a month. At the Grove, in the race Robson was to have appeared, Ted won followed by Andres and Hinnershitz. A championship event was on tap for Indianapolis, Indiana, Fairgrounds - the first to be held there in over ten years.

Ted needed victory in this race. His lead in the big chase was not large. Mays had the Bowes Seal Fast job humming again, and was very much in the running for the title he owned. Besides Ted and Rex, there were Mauri Rose, Al Putnam, Tony Bettenhausen, Floyd Davis, Russ Snowberger, Elbert Booker, Eddie Zalucki, George Connor, Emil Andres and Spider Webb to take time trials.
Little Al Putnam never completed his time run. A skid, crash and a drop into a concrete abutment ended his life..

The race was a thrill producer. Mays led from the outset, trailed by Rose and Ted. Near the 80 mile mark, Ted moved up on Mauri, then slowed. A horseshoe nail, souvenir of the horse racing that had been held on this track for many seasons imbedded itself in a tyre. Ted’s crew – Jughead, Woodenhead and just plain Head – were the picture of perfection in the change. Thirty seconds and he was away. Mays averaged almost 80 mph to win. Rose was second, Andres third and Ted fourth. The scene moved to Milwaukee, and another 100-miler.
Mays and the Bowes job duplicated the Indianapolis results of a week earlier. This time he had Tony Bettenhausen to vanquish…. Ted took second, almost a lap behind. [should be third I would think]

Goshen, and still another 100 miler. The big kite shaped track on which the Grand Circuit annually holds its “Kentucky Derby” of the harness sport…. Ted now had the Peters Offy. The Little Dandy needed an overhaul and there wasn’t time. Rex beat Ted in a match race, then threw a rod. Out for the day. To Ted, any kind of a decent finish and the title was his…
[Bettenhausen] roared into the lead on the first turn. Ted trailed, then moved slowly forward, picking up stragglers and slower cars. Andres was chasing Bettenhausen, and as the half way mark was reached, the pair lapped Ted. At the three-quarter mark, Jughead hung out the “GO” signal, and the big Peters job leaped. In one lap Ted had unlapped himself. Andres was slowing. Ted went by, driving with one hand and waving with the other. It was the wave of a champion. Second place made the title his. They coasted to the finish….

Back to the Grove, and Bedford, Flemington, Trenton, Reading. Now the papers were recognizing the fact that Ted was the coming champion…

Ted went back to the Grove on the 28th [of October]. It was the big 50 lapper that carried the trophy and ended the season. Ted was the favourite, as he set the fastest time and gave every evidence of continuing his winning streak. But on the first lap a skid, and Ted stalled, off the track.
It was three laps later that Ted got back in the race. From there to the finish he drove phenomenally. Time after time he passed cars, and made up one, two, then the three lost laps. But the finish was coming up, and Holland’s lead was too big to overcome and Ted took fourth behind Ader and Chitwood.

[After a disastrous attempt at promoting a meeting at Strawberry Hill, Richmond, that was beset by bad weather] Ted went back to the shop to work. It had been his busiest season. Almost 60 race meets and his books were in bad shape…

I’ll leave it to you to work out which events counted for the championship. Just to confuse the issue further there is a list of AAA points scored by Horn over his career and the figure given for 1946 does not match the one I posted earlier. The earlier one was supposed to have come from the AAA bulletin and gave Horn 2250 points while the list in the back of the book has him on 2448.00 points in the 1946 National Championship.

I don’t know if it has any relevance to 1946 but the book has a complete 1948 record which lists nine National Championship events among the 34 that Horn contested that year. They are:

April 25, Arlington Downs, Texas, 100 miles, 1st
June 6, Wisconsin State Fairgrounds, 100 miles, 3rd
June 20, Langhorne, Pennsylvania, 100 miles, 9th
August 15, Wisconsin State Fairgrounds, 100 miles, 3rd
August 21, Springfield, Illinois, 100 miles, 1st
August 29, Wisconsin State Fairgrounds, 200 miles, 3rd
September 4, Du Quoin State Fairgrounds, 100 miles, 3rd
September 6, Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, Ga.,100 miles, 0
September 19, Springfield, Illinois, 100 miles, 3rd

#11 Don Capps

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Posted 10 December 2001 - 21:10

Let me look at some of my information and see what I have that might help. To the best of my knowledge, there were only six events on the Championship Trail that season, the last season run under the AIACR CSI International Formula which went into effect in 1938 and before the first FIA CSI International Formula (A or "1") was run in 1947.

Should anyone have any burning curiosity as the "sliding scale" used for the weights for these cars under the 3-litre/4.5-litre formula, I just happen to have it handy.....

#12 Don Capps

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 15:28

Michael,

First of all, no more Oliver Stone movies for you until at least after the holidays are over....

Second, after looking through about everything I could find on the 1946 season and/or Ted Horn, I am convinced that the AAA Championship Trail for 1946 were the six races already identified:

30 May, 30th International Sweepstakes (Indianapolis 500), Indianapolis Motor Speedway

30 June, 3rd Langhorne 100, Langhorne Speedway

2 September, 1st Atlanta 100, Lakewood Speedway

15 September, 1st Indianapolis 100, Indiana State Fair Park

22 September, 3rd Milwaukee 100, Wisconsin State Fair Park, West Allis

6 October, 2nd Goshen 100, Goshen Speedway

I am unsure as to exactly why and where all the different point totals come from (look at the point totals that Phil Harms has versus those of Russ Catlin), but the confused state of some of the various AAA records at that time certainly cannot make life any easier for us today. What were to become the Sprint Cars were essentially, along with the Midgets (Small Cars), everywhere. To most, a "Big Car" was a "Big Car" and any nuances were usually lost in the translation since there were obviously Big Car events which were not part of the Championship Trail, which specified that tracks had to be a minimum of 1-mile in length and over a minimum distance of 100 miles. Plus, drivers ran both forms of the Big Cars during the season and often at the same tracks, such as Lakewood.

Also, keep in mind that the Indianapolis race, the "Sweepstakes" as it was usually called, was absolutely HUGE in its impact on the American racing scene. It is almost impossible to comprehend how huge it was to the public. In one of the Floyd Clymer "Supplements" of the period, there is a subtle reminder that there was also a Championship Trail conducted by the AAA.

The May 1947 Speed Age, Vol. 1 No. 1, has an article on the number assigned for the 1947 season (page 30) :

By Their Numbers You Shall Know Them

Numbers have been assigned the big-car drivers on the basis of their standing in the AAA national championship list.

Several numbers are among the missing. The old jinx No. 13 is out for obvious reasons. The contest board rules specifiy that this number shall never be used on a race car.

The board also withholds numbers 11, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 to avoid confusion among officials timing and checking races. If the observer, in calling the numbers to the checkers, should say "Twenty" and follow it by the number of the next car such as "Six," the checker would probably wind up with number 26. At least that's the way the contest board figures it.

Numbers 2 and 72 will not be issued this year. They are to be reserved in memory of George Robson, 1946 Indianapolis winner, and George BArringer. Both were fatally injured last Labor Day at Atlanta, Ga.

The numbers assigned for the 1947 season are:

1 Ted Horn
2 *George Robson
3 Emil Andres
4 Bill Holland
5 T. Hinnershitz
6 Walter Ader
7 Jimmy Jackson
8 Joie Chitwood
9 Rex Mays
10 Duke Dinsmore
12 Louis Durant
14 George Connors
15 Henry Rodgers
16 Tony Bettenhausen
17 Earl Johns
18 Gigi Villoresi
19 J. Shackleford
21 Lee Wallard
22 Red Byron
23 T. Mattson
24 Elbert Booker
25 E. Zalucki
26 Frank Warne
27 Al Fleming
28 Mauri Rose
29 Ottis Stine
31 E. Zimmerman
32 Danny Goss
33 Charlie Rogers
34 Walt Brown
35 Warren Bates
36 Spider Webb
37 Buddie Rusch
38 Bud Bardowski
39 Steve Truchan
41 Billy DeVore
42 E. Casterline
43 Buddy Schuman
44 Charles Van Acker
45 Lucky Lux
46 Joe Langley
47 Larry (Fred) Smith
48 George Culp
49 Robert Cooney
51 James Gibbons
52 Joe Verebly
53 Milt Frankhouser
54 Hal Robson
55 Red Redmond
56 George Metzler
57 Mark Light
58 Oscar Ridlon
59 O. Epperly
61 Floyd Davis
62 John Carpenter
63 Earl Horn
64 Duke Nalon
65 Carl Ott
66 John Matera
67 Bob Chronister
68 Bus Warke
69 N. Houser
71 E. Terry
72 Al Miller
73 *George Barringer
74 Herman Owens
75 Clay Corbett
76 George Rutty
77 Stan Jones
78 Lenn Koenig
79 J. Etheridge
81 James Fearick
82 V. D. Morelock
83 Mike Bailey
84 Charlie Breslin
85 J. Holland
86 Jim Brubaker
87 P. Becker
88 Joe Martin
89 D. Russell
91 Mark Sooy
92 C. Smith
93 Bob Simpson
94 B. Johnson
95 Charles Miller
96 Speed McFee
97 Arthir York
98 H. Steiger
99 William Randall

//////////////////////////////////////////////////

To mention something from 1948: during that season, Horn ran in 24 features for the "sprint" cars and won an astonding 23 of them. He was second to Tommy Hinnershitz in the Willow Grove feature on Sunday, 12 September.

#13 fines

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 16:26

Thanks Milan, what a phantastic post! :) :) :)

It also confirms my fears that there must've been many, many additional events for some of the sprint car stars to achieve 1,000 points and more, with the usual distance being 50 laps of a 1/2-mile track!

Even worse, it also puts Phil Harms' records in doubt again, as I was aware that many experts assumed Horn to have driven his own car for most of the year, while Harms puts him in the Peters Offy for all five 100-milers. I've seen a picture of him in the Peters car, most probably taken at Goshen, but Catlin seems to indicate this was the only instance where this combination appeared... :

Then again, how reliable is Russ Catlin? After all, it was him who did the AAA revisions in 1951 in the first place! I know he was a "colourful" character, but have never read anything substantial coming from his pen. Milan, could you do me one more favour and post the other points totals for Horn's career? Maybe that'll provide a clue... :)

As for which races were part of the championship and which not, that's incredibly difficult to determine. For example, the first Atlanta event is explicitly called a AAA sanction, but it was won by Jimmy Wilburn, a famous IMCA driver, and knowing the usual stance of the AAA on "outlaws"... :

Don, thanks for the list with the numbers, but I'm pretty sure there were additional events, I've seen several notes about that. Do you have sources from before 1951?

And yes, I for one would be interested in the sliding scale of the 1938 rules! I believe I have seen them somewhere, but can't remember where atm. Thanks! :) :)

#14 FEV

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 16:39

Yes Milan what a great post indeed !
Michael, about Horn's car I hadn't want to post it before because my faith in Phil Harm's incredible records was blind, but Cohin never credits Horn with driving Fred Peter's car. He always call it "Horn-Offenhauser"... even at Goshen. Am I just adding confusion once again here :| :confused: :)
Slightly OT but I guess you read John Clifton's short but nice Ted Horn bio at diecastdigest.com. Nothing here much about 1946, but a quote about 1945 is highly interesting to me for personal reasons : "The first big car race after the ban was lifted in 1945 was in Essex Junction, VT in 1945." That is exactly the little town I was happy to spend two years as a teen back in 1985/86 :eek: !!! Do you have any info on this particular event ? I never would have imagine this little quiet suburb of Burlington ever just had a car race !!!

#15 Don Capps

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 21:56

First, I think I must defend Phil Harms. Phil have done much more research into this area than about anyone I am aware of; as I have trod over much of the same ground and nosed into the various nooks and crannies of the AAA (and the later USAC) Championship Trail, I have more and more reason to bank on what Phil has done. Like Paul Sheldon and the Formula One Register, Phil has made information generally available which would have taken much, much longer (if ever in some cases) to work its way into public view. Remember, not until John Glenn Printz and Ken M. McMaken put their information into the early (first three) CART annuals did most of us have a clear picture of AAA Championship and the events on the Championship Trail. I had a good idea in the early 1980's of the USAC information, but most of the AAA years were a void. I think many were in the same boat.

Phil Harms has dug into the contemporary sources as well as the often bewildering and usually sketchy AAA statistics. I just had a look at the AAA Contest Board Summaries for most of the period from 1948 until 1954: they are tough to work with. I only looked at the Championship Trail and sports car data. It was tough sledding: some years you literally have to piece the "official" results together from the points tables, which means that it is, at best, a slow and tedious process. Plus, keep in mind that Phil has done quite a bit of checking and cross-checking of his data and tried to sort it out to the best of his considerable abilities. If you think the geneology of GP cars is a character-buiding exercise, sorting out the particulars of the Big Cars, especially in the immediate post-war period, is a true exercise in character development. Our knowledge in this area has jumped by leaps and bounds in the past few years thanks to much of this data finally coming to light and through such efforts as The Alternative, to just mention one excellent source.

Also, Phil Harms provides the references and the sources for his data so that one can actually conduct research in a proper academic fashion. This means that one can cover the same ground for material to expand from the recitation of data to the fashioning of the story behind that data. [SOAPBOX] Too often, reference material in the world of motor racing history seems to be of a very proprietary nature -- "I own it and I control it and you get what I want you to see -- and you pay (often through the nose) for it." Being able to even use the material is often a forlorn hope at best. It is simply not available for scholars to use as research material, but viewed as a source of mercenary gain. [/SOAPBOX]

Keep in mind the the term "Big Car" was used not only for the Championship Cars, but also to what were to later to become "Sprint Cars" for several years after the War by many. Also clouding the issue seems to be that in 1946 that apparently there were races for Champ Cars which were not on the Championship Trail. I don't know the details, but I have deduced this from some of the materials I have seen and also from what I have just figured from the nature of things in the immediate post-War period.

Second, I have greatly revised my opinion of Russ Catlin of late: upward, which I did not expect. I finally managed to get the series that Catlin wrote in Speed Age concerning the AAA National Championship covering the years from 1909 to 1917. Within the standards of the day, Catlin did a better job than we seem willing to credit him with today -- the price of changing standards. Contrary to what many here seem to believe, the AAA was crediting Champions to these season long before Catlin came along. What Catlin did do that is invaluable to many of us is to make this data available to the public and later historians. From what I have done using other sources, much in the series seems to match with what others have found.

I have also managed to get back to working on some items that got shelved after 11 September that were going to appear in my Rear View Mirror column. One of these is a re-visit to the question concerning the issue of the AAA National Championships that I had taken a quick look at before, but now have some more information about them and I have also had more time to reflect upon this issue.

Third, as for this statement:

"As for which races were part of the championship and which not, that's incredibly difficult to determine."

I think that there is being created a mountain where there is at best a molehill (or more likely a mole turd). Looking at the events in the selection that Milan was so kind as to provide, the vast majority of the events mentioned are not at tracks which hosted events on the Championship Trail at that time. Always keep in mind that this was a transition year in the truest sense of that term: the transiton from a wartime economy to a peacetime economy and the realization that the Depression was really over; a transition to an economy of consumers versus users; a huge cultural shift was in motion, the Baby Boom (I was in the second cohort -- the Class of 1947) being just one of many signs of this shift; and, sports and other leisure activities began to mean more than just baseball, picnics at the County or State Fair, or listening to the radio.

Of the latter, motor racing was one of the sports trying to compete with the Great American Game -- Baseball. I am not sure if there will ever be an accurate record of the number of Midget (Small Car) events held in America in 1946: there were races everywhere and anywhere. The International Sweepstakes at Indianapolis each year was a huge event, completely dominating the sport of motor racing in America. In 1946, folks were eager for entertainment and motor racing was one of the newer forms of entertainment which had a growth spurt at that time.

The efforts of the AAA to reinstitute the Championship Trail were a challenge, but the Contest Board did so. The Catlin excerpt mentions Indianapolis; when it lists Langhorne, it fails to mention that it was on the Championship Trail (I have the program for Langhorne and there are notes in its giving the car as the "Peters"), and an event in which he placed third; all the events after Langhorne and before Lakewood (Atlanta) I am willing to bet are all "Big Car" events, but not on the Championship Trail; and after Goshen those are all events obviously not on the Championship Trail.

I am also getting a better idea as to where the confusion in points quoted comes from: a combination of sloppy editing and just the difficulty of getting accurate data form the promoters or the AAA Contest Board. Plus, consider the audience much of the writing Catlin and many of the others were focusing on -- people new to the sport and particularly young people. It simply was not meant to be history of an academic sort, but history to inspire and create an interest. Not excusing any of the factual errors, but putting them into a proper context.

Well, I have probably said enough for now....

#16 Jim Thurman

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 22:25

Fascinating thread guys. I'm still trying to digest it all :)

I agree that the six events listed were likely the only true "Championship" races.

David McKinney mentioned the points per mileage based point system used by AAA (and, later, USAC). This might be old news to most of you, but just to point it out, a win in the Indianapolis 500 scored 1000 points (!!!).

I have the full point system...around...here....somewhere.

I was also glad to see both fines and Don Capps comments regarding Russ Catlin. And without the efforts of the fellows that compiled the data for the early CART Media Guides and Phil Harms, we wouldn't even be able to have this discussion!.

If you want to get into bad record keeping and the "purposefully missed", you'll have to get into NASCAR :D


Jim Thurman

#17 fines

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 22:44

Don, you don't need to defend Phil Harms, if anything I need to defend myself here! :lol: I wasn't trying to critisize Phil, actually I was just trying to sorta vent my frustrations at not having the complete and correct box scores I hoped (dreamed ?) to have by downloading the Harms files! You're right, and we've discussed this before, it's the same with Paul Sheldon, he's not superhuman, but where would we be without him...

But, in a way, I am insatiable, in that whenever I can put my foot in a door, I want to enter the room! It's pretty easy to find mistakes in both Sheldon's and Harms' works, and I'm sure there're many of us who could point out a few in each case without too much trouble. But that doesn't mean we don't love what they've done! Quite the opposite, just a couple years back I would've begged, stolen and borrowed just to get a glimpse of those champ car results...

Yet it is my firm believe, that once you stop critisizing, you stop improving; once you stop asking, you stop learning. Whatever it is, I want to know the truth, preferably with all the details, and that's what I'm trying to find out here.

You may well be right in your view, that there's nothing more to the story than what Phil Harms shows, and in a way I would be glad if it was! But why then does the AAA bulletin show drivers in their championship table, who never scored in champ cars or never even competed (like Bill Holland, 4th in the table)? Why does the Speed Age list of starting numbers, based on the "standing in the AAA national championship list", include them also?

And lastly, I think my words about Russ Catlin are slightly misleading: what I meant saying is that I have never read anything with substantial length or with a subject I could judge upon to know if he's a reliable source or not. I didn't want to critizise him, just to find out about him.

#18 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 12 December 2001 - 07:42

Michael,

This is the list from Russ Catlin's book.

POSITIONS WON BY TED HORN IN AAA POINT STANDINGS

Year, Position, Circuit, Points

1931, 83, Pacific Southwest, 0.75
1932, 20, Pacific Southwest, 39.74
1933, 2, Pacific Southwest (B), 220.76
1934, 10, Pacific Southwest, 87.43
1934, 14, Eastern, 318.00
1934, 39, Midwestern, 15.00
1935, 20, Pacific Southwest, 52.15
1935, 23, Eastern, 233.00
1935, 23, Midwestern, 70.00
1936, 3, Pacific Southwest, 12.85
1936, 32, Eastern, 36.00
1936, 8, Midwestern, 163.50
1936, 3, NATIONAL cHAMPIONSHIP, 825.00
1937, 48, Eastern, 32.00
1937, 9, Central, 206.00
1937, 2, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 750.00
1938, ?, Eastern, 369.00
1938, ?, Central, 460.00
1938, 4, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 660.00
1939, 11, Eastern, 270.00
1939, 3, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 685.00
1940, 3, Eastern, 815.00
1940, 4, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 625.00
1941, 3, Central, 152.00
1946, 1, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 2448.00
1947, 1, Eastern, 940.00
1947, 1, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 1920.00
1948, 1, Eastern, 765.00
1948, 8, Midwestern, 102.00
1948, 1, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 1890.00

#19 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 12 December 2001 - 07:55

Originally posted by FEV
Yes Milan what a great post indeed !
Michael, about Horn's car I hadn't want to post it before because my faith in Phil Harm's incredible records was blind, but Cohin never credits Horn with driving Fred Peter's car. He always call it "Horn-Offenhauser"... even at Goshen. Am I just adding confusion once again here :| :confused: :)
Slightly OT but I guess you read John Clifton's short but nice Ted Horn bio at diecastdigest.com. Nothing here much about 1946, but a quote about 1945 is highly interesting to me for personal reasons : "The first big car race after the ban was lifted in 1945 was in Essex Junction, VT in 1945." That is exactly the little town I was happy to spend two years as a teen back in 1985/86 :eek: !!! Do you have any info on this particular event ? I never would have imagine this little quiet suburb of Burlington ever just had a car race !!!


The only mention of the race at Essex Junction that I can find is in a letter Ted Horn wrote to a Mr White, one of his backers who supplied Burd piston rings.

Sept 5, 1945... Dear Mr White....Been a long time since I wrote you a letter, but I must say it makes me happy to have the occasion to do so again, First, I want to tell you I won the first big car event to be run after V-J Day, August 26th at Essex Junction, Vt. I had the fastest time, heat, and won the main event. I only had one car together which I drove myself....

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#20 FEV

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Posted 12 December 2001 - 11:15

Thanks again Milan !
About Phil Harms I can only agree with Michael. "just a couple years back I would've begged, stolen and borrowed just to get a glimpse of those champ car results..." :lol: How true this is !!!
But it is also true that in such a uge work errors or omissions are very likely to happen. I found quite a few ones for instance in the Driver Summary (nothing crucial here : mileage completed per driver, times led, races led...). His career stats are also strange. For example in the engine all-time wins list he makes a difference between a Cosworth DFX, an XB and an XD (and does the same for every modern era engines) but not for Miller (wins by 91s, 235s, 183s... are all added to give Miller a great total). Same thing for chassis... But this has no link with the 1946 issue. About it I was wondering if there ever were talks of a sort of BRDC-like "Gold Star" award, adding all the results sanctionned by AAA (Big Cars, Sprints, Midgets, Stocks...) to determine their best drivers of the year ? I don't think so but that could have been a solution to the problem ??
Anyway I still believe we have some races missing for 1946. The "Speed Age" list of numbers for the 1947 season is the best proof of this, particularly the number 2 given to Robson (and not assigend in his honour during the 1947 season) : he finished third accorcding to Phil Harms in 1946. And what about Holland, Hinnershitz, Earl Johns....

#21 Don Capps

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Posted 12 December 2001 - 15:24

Let's put this whole discussion in perspective: the real problem is that the records of the AAA Contest Board were literally put into the thrash in 1957. As Gordon White, Phil Harms, John Printz, Ken McMaken, and others (myself included) will attest to, this was a body blow to racing historians. About 15 or so years ago, I corresponded with John Printz concering the AAA (and to a lesser extent, the USAC) Championship Trail. I was really interested in seeing what I could do since this was just one of those areas I had always been interested in (the Catlin book on Ted Horn, the Wilbur Shaw book, Wall-Smacker by Peter dePaolo, the various Indy 500 books, and having actually seen a few AAA events), but had not really done much digging into.

After several months, I found that researching the AAA was perhaps worse than NASCAR (the yardstick for indifference to all things historical for most of its existence)! I did manage to get started on several projects , but took the path of least resistence when Paul Sheldon's works started to pop up and fill the gaps in my own research. Essentially, I had the Indy 500 covered, but most of the rest was rather vague.

Then, along came the cyber universe and then Phil Harms dropped out of the sky. I was aware that there was someone out there really making some progress in the area of AAA and USAC racing statistics. I had dropped out of following "F1" very closely in the mid to late 1980's and was taking a greater interest in CART and NASCAR, although still continuing to research GP and European racing.

Thanks to the Racinghistory Group and the forebearance of others, I have finally managed to begin shifting the focus of my work more towards American racing and leaving the GP and European efforts in the hands of people far more capable than I am. Make no mistake, I still have a great interest in GP racing and so forth, but with the current group of scholars that has emerged of late, I am convinced that this area is in the best of hands.

I am now taking the time to do take a look at some of the topics I have always had in the "I'll Get Around to It Someday" box on my desk. I am genuinely surprised how many of those items are related to American racing. Last night, I finally got much of my recently acquired information sorted out and finally started slowly wading through some of it. This is leading towards an RVM on what I am finding. I have had my home PC die so haven't had much of a chance to contact Gordon or Phil directly on this matter.

#22 fines

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Posted 13 December 2001 - 16:35

Thanks again, Milan! A short glance once again shows up at least one difference from the "official" records (1948), I'll get back to this soon.

Originally posted by FEV
...the 1946 issue. About it I was wondering if there ever were talks of a sort of BRDC-like "Gold Star" award, adding all the results sanctionned by AAA (Big Cars, Sprints, Midgets, Stocks...) to determine their best drivers of the year ? I don't think so but that could have been a solution to the problem ??

I was thinking along the same lines here...

#23 Don Capps

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Posted 18 December 2001 - 18:28

I think I have deduced where Catlin got the numbers he quotes for 1946: these were probably the points that Horn earned for the Eastern "Big Car" championship since they seem to parallel the points used in the AAA "Sprint" events. Just an educated guess, but it does seem to fit.

#24 Don Capps

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Posted 03 April 2002 - 19:55

While rooting through some of my files as I am gathering them up form my move, there was some information about 1946 that kept nagging me. Finally, I think I found what had been bugging me: it is a note by John Printz concerning the 1946 season buried in the footnotes in his article on the listing of drivers with five or more victories on the Championship Trail.

When WW2 ended, there were some real questions as to whether there would be much of a 1946 season -- fears apparently shared by many as the season loomed. Recall that in late 1945, the Indianapolis Speedway was pretty much a mess and the demobilization of the troops was a burning question in the minds of many since the economy was still in the throes of trying to shift from a wartime economy to a peacetime economy. The term "new automobile" was not only an oxymoron, but could set off a riot at a dealership.

The midgets managed to fill the same niche in racing as cockroaches in dirty kitchens -- they were everywhere!

The Contest Board, never the most progressive of organizations, was concerned about the Championship Trail and the "Big Cars," this term being attached interchanageably to Sprints as well as Champ Cars. Concerns about the availability of enough cars and drivers or venues to run a season on the Championship Trail, the Contest Board initially opted to run both Sprints and Champ Cars into the same events and count any points earned towards the National Championship.

There were an astounding 71 events run for the Sprints in 1946 according to Printz. There were an additional six events run for the Champ Cars. The fears of the Contest Board concerning the availabity of cars, drivers, venues, and fans were proved to be unfounded. However, the Contest now had the beginning of a possible mess on its hands regarding the National Championship. Apparently at some point, the Contest Board decided that the National Championship would be determined using the six events run for the Champ Cars.

There is an article in the August 1954 Speed Age by Jay Charles which lists the National Champions and the first five in the points standings -- with the points earned. The listing goes back to 1909, so :rolleyes: keep in mind that it reflects the Haresnape/Catlin revisions. For the 1946 season, the standings are:

Ted Horn / 1,360 points
Emil Andres / 1,260
George Robson / 1,220
Jimmy Jackson / 800
Rex Mays / 600

I think these are close to what Harms has.

However, having said that and knowing what a mess the Contest Board left when it apparently dropped all its records in a dumpster when the AAA pulled the plug, there may be some real good questions still lacking real good answers. Since Gordon White lives not very far from me, I think I will finally approach She Who Must Be Obeyed, with a heart trembling with fear, to request an advance on my allowance to purchase the mircofilm of some of the AAA records like I have been meaning to do forever.

It is not beyond the pale that Catlin's score may be close to the truth, sonce there apparently was no little confusion even at the time as to what was to be a Championship Trail event and what wasn't. I will also take a look at my program from Langhorne for 1946 and see if it has any clues to help out -- I am hoping it will surface later today as I rummage around....

#25 fines

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Posted 03 April 2002 - 20:22

Originally posted by Don Capps
However, having said that and knowing what a mess the Contest Board left when it apparently dropped all its records in a dumpster when the AAA pulled the plug, there may be some real good questions still lacking real good answers. Since Gordon White lives not very far from me, I think I will finally approach She Who Must Be Obeyed, with a heart trembling with fear, to request an advance on my allowance to purchase the mircofilm of some of the AAA records like I have been meaning to do forever.

It is not beyond the pale that Catlin's score may be close to the truth, sonce there apparently was no little confusion even at the time as to what was to be a Championship Trail event and what wasn't. I will also take a look at my program from Langhorne for 1946 and see if it has any clues to help out -- I am hoping it will surface later today as I rummage around....

That's really good news! Any chance we can influence Mrs. Capps, maybe by being really nice for a change? :cat:;) :lol:

#26 Don Capps

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 04:11

1. I have ordered the microfilm rolls of the AAA records from Gordon and they should be arriving in the next week or so.

2. Looking at the folder of materials I had xeroxed from Speed Age, I was skimming a colimn called "its a fact" in the June 1953 issues and as I was putting it down happend to realize that the "1949" in a question was actually supposed to be 1946 when I took a closer look:

Q -- I wish to obtain some data concerning AAA Championship races. I would like to know the first five finishers for every race in 1949. -- Juan A.Buschiazzo, Buenos Aires, argentina

A: The results are as follows:

Indianapolis
Robson
Jackson
Horn
Andres
Chitwood

Langhorne
Mays
Robson
Horn
Andres
Devore

Milwaukee
Mays
Horn
Andres
Dinsmore
Rogers

Atlanta
Connor
Truchan
Andres
Dardowski
Langley

Indianapolis Fairgrounds
Mays
Rose
Andres
Horn
Bettenhausen

Goshen
Bettenhausen
Horn
Dinsmore
Andres
Rogers



Somehow I missed this earlier and only saw the "1949" and missed the names Robson and Horn, neither alive in 1949. Just another little bit of information...


PS: I not only got The Stare, but had to endure both the Marge Simpson snarl ("...grrrr...") and The Lecture ("Say....didn't I just give you your allowance....? And, you want it it for WHAT!!!....") The price we pay to seek out the Truth.....

#27 Don Capps

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 19:40

Roaming through the AAA records, I found this amongst material form the Contest Board Bulletins:

"Ted won the championship through his participation in the Indianapolis '500', five one hundred mile championship races and 33 dirt track events. His many firsts enabled him to win a total of 2,488 points which is almost a thousand more than the next highest conpeititor."

The the 1946 Yearbook lists six champship events for the 1946 season:

Indianapolis, 30 May

Langhorne, 30 June

Milwaukee, 6 August

Atlanta, 2 September

Indianapolis Fairgrounds, 25 September

Goshen, 6 October


...... I rest my case...... whatever it was......

#28 cabianca

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Posted 17 May 2002 - 19:42

Phil Harms has made an incredible contribution to American racing history. Anyone handling massive amounts of data is bound to reflect some of the mistakes of those before him, who created the data in the first place. If you find a mistake in Phil's work, let him know what the mistake is and how you know it's a mistake (what's your reference(s)) and Phil will alter his records to correct it. No one will be surprised to learn that AAA and USAC published flawed material from time to time. An example of a AAA mistake shows up in a post in this thread. Villoresi's 7th place Maserati in the Indy 500 shows owner "Covorado" Fillippini. This is how the AAA published the results. The gentleman's name was Corrado. I have been working for a few years on the types and serial numbers of foreign entries at Indy and I can tell you that when the AAA boys were working with stuff that they were not familiar with, the information they generated is something else indeed.

#29 MPea3

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Posted 17 May 2002 - 21:27

somewhat OT for the thread, but it sent chills up my spine to read about ted horn navigating by treetop and signs to drive the mile track at atlanta. i was at lakewood sometime around 72 or 73 for the last AMA mile race, the one at which the dust was so bad that the race to be cancelled and a riot broke out. just watching the bikes trying to race that day was one of the more scary moments i ever experienced as a race fan.

i was down at lakewood the other day, and it's a sad sight compared with my memories from the late 60's and early 70's. you can still see the concrete grandstands and the remains of turns 1 & 2, but they've since built an outdoor amplitheatre for concerts, and the mile track i loved is gone. i should take a picture and post it. the old mile track was fast, exciting to watch, and unfortunately deadly. i think (i could be wrong being old and senile) that oldfield also put a car in that lake in the early days, and i was always worried that a car or bike that might get over the fance outside of turn 1 would end up in the street. there wasn't much room for error...

#30 fines

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Posted 17 May 2002 - 23:22

Originally posted by cabianca
Phil Harms has made an incredible contribution to American racing history. Anyone handling massive amounts of data is bound to reflect some of the mistakes of those before him, who created the data in the first place. If you find a mistake in Phil's work, let him know what the mistake is and how you know it's a mistake (what's your reference(s)) and Phil will alter his records to correct it. No one will be surprised to learn that AAA and USAC published flawed material from time to time. An example of a AAA mistake shows up in a post in this thread. Villoresi's 7th place Maserati in the Indy 500 shows owner "Covorado" Fillippini. This is how the AAA published the results. The gentleman's name was Corrado. I have been working for a few years on the types and serial numbers of foreign entries at Indy and I can tell you that when the AAA boys were working with stuff that they were not familiar with, the information they generated is something else indeed.

Michael, if I sound like critisizing Phil Harms, apologies, actually I adore him and am in awe of his tremendous work! As I said elsewhere, just a few years ago I would have begged, stolen and borrowed just to get a fraction of the info which I now have at hand, and free of charge to boot!

The thing is, I am never satisfied. Never! There's always room for improvement, and TNF has so far been a goldmine of inspiration to this end. I am in the process of compiling additional data for Phil's records, and if it all works out I will be sending him a first installment (covering the CART years) before the year is out. We all need to work together. :)

#31 ChampCarGuy

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 20:13

Hello all, my name is Eric Mauk, I am the News Manager for Champ Car and I have been battling for a couple of years now to incorporate all of Champ Car history (eliminating this CART-era historical base that we used for years, which of course creates career achievement lists that left many, many deserving racers on the outside).

I have been trying to research the Atlanta (Lakewood Speedway) race for a while to find out what lap the fatal accident occurred. To the best of my research, I know it was the end of the race, I assume Lap 97 or 98 as it was slated to be a 100-mile run but was halted at 98.

Why? What I am doing is reconstructing driver performance charts for every season from 1946-2005 and trying to do it in the most complete and accurate manner available as the stats we put out will stand as the official Champ Car stats. We did a new updated record book last year that went back to 1955 and we are updating it for the 2006 season to go back to 1946, as well as to clean up a few errors we made last year. I have been able to research some pretty interesting records and find some cool stuff and some of it I did with the help of the information you gentlemen put on this site. I have worked closely with Dick Jordan at USAC, who was kind enough to let me go into the basement and dig through actual scoring records and we have made this book as accurate as humanly possible, but I am not naive enough to think that I have it 100 percent right yet (I'll bet I'm at 98 though!)

I have 17 of the Gordon White reels and have just purchased the last few so that I can research these last few races of 46 and 47. Hopefully, those will have the answers we need. Let me know in a month or two if any of you are interested in seeing the record book and I will send some out. For me, I would be pleased if those that have the passion for the history, check it out and let me know what I have missed.

#32 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 23:51

It is interesting that the contemporary accounts (the AP account being the most complete it seems) of the race at Lakewood Park Speedway give Ted Horn as the winner and the event being stopped at 98 laps. Yet, George Connor is listed as the winner. From what little I have found on the race results in the contemporary accounts, the top three as announced were: Horn, Connor, and Truchan.

Eric, first and foremost, I think that Bill Green, the historian at the IMRRC at Watkins Glen, and I are quite envious since you gained access to The Basement. Maybe this signifies that USAC is willing to finally begin admitting scholars such as Bill Green to take a look at what they have in their archives. I know that Bill and I have some questions about the AAA and USAC records that a few weeks in The Basement might begin to solve....

Second, I think that you will find folks here quite willing to help you in any and every way that they can.

#33 fines

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 13:47

Yes, Horn was declared winner, but obviously a protest was made because an interim points standing as of Oct 23 does not include points from the Labour Day Atlanta meet. Incidentally, I have spent some more time with the 1946 situation and have most of the info in place by now. IIRC, there were 77 qualifying rounds, and I have at least the winner of every one of them. Placings are much harder to come by, but I do have 2nd and/or 3rd place finishers for some, even more on a very few races. I also have the top 90 positions in the final points standing, and the points total for about 40 drivers.

There are also a few problem areas, such as Billy Sheffler and Bus Wilbert not showing up in the final standings, and of course researching the cars is a major job!

#34 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 15:33

Michael,

I am sorry, but lacking any substantial proof or evidence being presented on your part, I really have problems accepting this notion of there being "77 qualifying rounds" for the 1946 AAA National Championship. It simply doesn't fit. I tend to believe the 1946 AAA yearbook and its listing six rounds for the National Championship than there being "77."

I regret not having my copy of the yearbook available since I would also like to see what it has for the Atlanta race, something that just occurred to me.

The results that everyone seems to accept, those that Phil Harms developed, make little sense, especially when several sources have Horn not only in the lead, but leading by a lap over the pack. Of those directly involved in the accident -- Robson, Barringer, and DeVore -- Robson and Barringer were apparently fighting for position while DeVore was nuring his car along at a reduced speed with a driveshaft problem. Langley was behind the crash and pulled to the right and stopped. Andres and Bardowski then went through the crash site, both apparently running over Robson. Horn then came upon the crash and he stopped. Seeing that Devore was rolled over and in the ditch and under water, Horn pulled him out while Langley finally got everyone stopped.

The AP report -- as the other accounts -- have Horn being declared the winner with Conner and Truchan second and third.

The New York Times on 6 October 1946, has Horn going into Goshen with 1,282 points, over 250 points ahead of the second place driver.

If there was a protest on the results of the Atlanta race, any idea as to what it was about? Why would Horn be disqualified or penalized laps and positions?

#35 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 04:11

Since this has become a running gunfight spread over several threads, I thought that his should also be placed here within this thread as well:


Michael,

They may have all counted towards some championship -- Eastern, Midwest, whatever -- but it seems that only six may have counted towards the National Championship. Should I simply disregard the 1946 AAA annual as being wrong?

Also, Speed Age May 1947, states on page 22, "To date eleven national championship races, including the 500-mile Indianapolis Speedway classisc, have been scheduled. This is nearly twice the number run during 1946."

Also, on page 27 of the same issue of Speed Age the following can be found:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AAA Drivers Took Home Over $300,000

The 3600 miles of dirt track and championship events under the AAA sanction paid off at the rate of $84.50 a mile for a total of $304,432 last year, according to statistics released by Col. Arthur W. Herrington, chairman of the contest board.

There were 177 racing cars, 193 drivers and 254 mechanics registered by the board last year, while 469 temporary permits were issued. Six championship events and 71 dirt track races were held, with 21 others rained out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The ball is back in your court, Michael.

#36 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 08:46

I have posted this over at the Racing History Group in the hope of getting some feedback:

Although the available results for the 1946 are generally recorded
as such....

1 George Connor, 98 laps
2 Steve Truchan, 98 laps
3 Emil Andres, 97 laps, flagged
4 Bud Bardowski, 96 laps, flagged
5 Joe Langley, 95 laps, flagged
6 Ted Horn, 91 laps, flagged
7 George Robson, X laps, wrecked - fatal
8 George Barringer, X laps, wrecked - fatal
9 Billy DeVore, X laps, wrecked
10 Duke Dinsmore, X laps, out
11 Rex Mays, 23 laps, low oil pressure

....this begs the question of how and why the contemporary accounts of the race always mention Ted Horn as being the winner, with Connor and Truchan second and third respectively?

The lack of detail on this race has long bothered me, but a recent question by Erik Mauk -- who is working on the update to the Champ Car Record Book, prompted a closer look.

According to the contemporary accounts, at the time of the wreck, Horn had a lead of over a lap on the field. The accounts also seem to agree that the accident occurred on the 98th lap of the race.
Piecing things together, it appears that Horn was either in front of the pack or seperated from it since the first he was aware of the crash was when he ran into it. Apparently, the major portion of the crash had already taken place: Robson and DeVore colliding and Barringer getting involved, with Langley pulling to the right and stopping as Andres and Bardowski ran through the wreckage (and over Robson), Bardowski sustaining minor injuries along the way -- and then Horn becoming involved in the accident. Horn is credited with pulling DeVore out of his car which was upside down in either the lake or in a water-filled ditch and in danger of drowning.

The accounts also describe the cars as being in "one pack," which with DeVore puttering along with driveshaft troubles trying to get to the finish means that at least six to eight of the cars were on the track, in the dust, in close proximity when the accident occurred.

So, the questions are:
Why is Connor listed as the winner and not Horn?
If Horn was a lap up on the field, why is he credited with only 91 laps?
Did the race end with the completion of the 97th or 98th lap?
Consensus seems to be that the race ended after 98 laps -- or maybe 99 if Horn had a lap lead....
If Connor was the winner, was there a protest or some scoring error that led to the rather mixed bag of information contained in the results as they are currently recorded?
Was there ever a correction published as to the results of the event being changed from Horn to Connor?
Phil Harms cited the AAA Tire Report as the source for his data -- which everyone else has based theirs upon. Does anyone have access to this report?
Could anyone contact Dick Jordan to see if they something on this in The Basement at USAC?

With the 1905 and 1920 national championships finally pretty much sorted out, it would be nice to have some sort of solution to this mystery as well.



#37 gerrit stevens

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 12:33

According to the PDF files dpownloaded from motorsport.com (source: Phil Harms)
Horn is featured as lap leader 1-15 and 32-97. Still he is credited with only 91 laps. That is a contradictory too.


Gerrit Stevens

#38 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 13:13

Gerrit,

You are beginning to see the problem -- the more you look, the more things literally don't add up....

Don

#39 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 17:54

Here is something that should help:

Hello Don,

I noticed an inquiry that you had about the results of the 1946 AAA race at Lakewood that you had posted at Trackforum.com

If you have access to the Sept 1987 Speed Age magazine they did an interview with George Conner about his career and part2 of it was featured in that issue written by Bob Schilling.
What George said is that after a series of appeals he was awarded the win after Ted Horn did admit he had hit something in the dust.
What i dont know is if back then if there was rule if you were involved in a crash you could not win. ( ie Ray Keech Altoona 1929 crash ? )

Basically Mr Conner stated that the race starter was the only official there and that everything was run by Sam Nunis, with help of the fair board there. Sam apparently wanted Ted Horn to win , and that Frankie Del Roy had loaded up Horn's car and left before it could be inspected for damage.
Then the weekend of the Indianapolis Fairgrounds 100 they announced a finish which mr Conner protested , thereby getting the attention of Ed Walsh.
Mr Walsh gets involved which in turn results in the "were you involved question?" being put to Mr Horn. And when he reponded with his "hit something" comment that settled it.
Mr Conner goes on to say he never did get the trophy.


Hopefully this info is of help, i would have posted it on atlasF1 but i 'm having puter issues with my account there right now. If you want to make a reference to this on TrackForum or any of the other site be my guest , hopefully others out there have that copy of Sept 1987 Speed Age

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#40 fines

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 13:54

Horn wasn't running, this is why he's classified 6th. In 1946 cars running were always classified ahead of cars not running at the finish. This changed in 1947. The real question is: why were Horn, Barringer and Robson (and de Vore probably, too) awarded points? The usual practice in 1946 was to award points only to drivers running at the finish (this also changed for 1947).

#41 fines

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 14:31

Hmm, the Oct 23 points table obviously wasn't from Rumbledrome, I can't find it there. A real pity, for it's quite conclusive. When I'm back online I can mail it to you, but that will take a little time.

Meanwhile, I can recall from my research that the point standings...

... originally posted by Milan Fistonic
Russ Catlin's 1949 book The Life of Ted Horn has the following table.

AAA National Point Standings - 1946

1 Ted Horn 2250
2 George Robson 1484
3 Emil Andres 1208
4 Bill Holland 1115.8
5 Jimmy Jackson 800
6 T.Hinnershitz 769.8
7 Walt Ader 721
8 Joie Chitwood 623
9 Rex Mays 613
10 Duke Dinsmore 454

is from after the Goshen event (I think Oct 6?), but doesn't include the Labour Day Atlanta race.

#42 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 14:52

Originally posted by fines
Horn wasn't running, this is why he's classified 6th. In 1946 cars running were always classified ahead of cars not running at the finish. This changed in 1947. The real question is: why were Horn, Barringer and Robson (and de Vore probably, too) awarded points? The usual practice in 1946 was to award points only to drivers running at the finish (this also changed for 1947).


No, the real question is a bit more basic: there seems to be basic agreement that Horn was leading, completing at least 97 -- or 98 or even 99 -- laps, yet he is credited with completing only 91 is placed sixth behind Bardowski and Langley, both of whom were also involved in the accident. Langley managed to miss the wreckage, but spun and jumped out to help. Bardowski suffered facial injuries as a result of the crash. Horn stopped after "hitting something," realized what had happened, and tried to stop the others. The Bob Schilling article on Connor states that Horn did get his car going again and crossed the line.

So, it seems that only Connor, Truchan, and Andres managed to avoid being directly involved in the crash. Plus it seem that Horn did get going again. The protest seems to come from the fact that Connor was not awarded second when the results were released at the Indiana Fairgrounds event.

Also, I would like to see the reference in the Contest Rules relating to the 1947 change as to how points were awarded. I thought it was effective with the 1946 season, but I could very easily be incorrect and simply getting the date of the change confused.

This finishing order simply does not hold up to any level of scrutiny:
1 George Connor, 98 laps
2 Steve Truchan, 98 laps
3 Emil Andres, 97 laps, flagged
4 Bud Bardowski, 96 laps, flagged
5 Joe Langley, 95 laps, flagged
6 Ted Horn, 91 laps, flagged
7 George Robson, ?? laps, wrecked - fatal
8 George Barringer, ?? laps, wrecked - fatal
9 Billy DeVore, ?? laps, wrecked
10 Duke Dinsmore, ?? laps, out
11 Rex Mays, 23 laps, low oil pressure


So, allowing for the protest, should be more like this?
1 George Connor, 98 laps
2 Steve Truchan, 98 laps
3 Ted Horn, 98 laps, flagged
4 Emil Andres, 97 laps, flagged
5. Bud Bardowski, 96 laps, flagged
6 Joe Langley, 95 laps, flagged
7 George Robson, ?? laps, wrecked - fatal
8 George Barringer, ?? laps, wrecked - fatal
9 Billy DeVore, ?? laps, wrecked
10 Duke Dinsmore, ?? laps, out
11 Rex Mays, 23 laps, low oil pressure

If Bardowski and Langley were "flagged" as finishers and they had been lapped at least once by Horn, then it has to more like what I have suggested. Whether Horn was running, as seems to the case, or not, then crediting him with only 91 laps and relegating him to sixth place behind others who were not "flagged" makes even less sense than placing him any lower than fourth, the first car not running when the race was halted, which might make at least a bit of sense.

The more that I consider this, it is apparent that Horn was relegated to another position other than first only when the protest was heard in November. However, the question remains what was his final position in the results and how many laps was each driver credited with? If both Bardowski and Langley were placed ahead of Horn and yet only Langley could be considered as not being "involved" in the crash, this has got to be on of the true scoring SNAFUs of the ages.

#43 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 15:13

Originally posted by fines
Hmm, the Oct 23 points table obviously wasn't from Rumbledrome, I can't find it there. A real pity, for it's quite conclusive. When I'm back online I can mail it to you, but that will take a little time.

Meanwhile, I can recall from my research that the point standings...

is from after the Goshen event (I think Oct 6?), but doesn't include the Labour Day Atlanta race.


The October 23 1946 table was from something called "Automotive Digest" and seems to include about everything that happened in 1946, not just the events on the National Championship Trail. Take a look at the Contest Rules and note that tracks had to be one-mile in length and events a minumum of 100 miles to count for the National Championship.

The New York Times of 6 October 1946 has Horn with 1,282 points going into the Goshen event and says that this is over 500 points ahead of his nearest rival.

#44 fines

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 15:25

I guess the '91 laps' is just a typo, and it should read 97 laps - then it would make sense. Although I agree, there appears to be some confusion about whether Horn continued after his accident or not. This is the first time I have heard suggestions that he continued.

Don, you really need to read the Buzz Rose books to understand! This is really a revisionist thing, with AAA realizing a blunder while making it and trying to step ahead by stepping back into line. It's hard to argue my stand just from memory, but it's really quite easy if you read the whole story. And while the New York Times article is certainly of interest, it's a mere press report, they get it wrong very often.

Same as with the 1939 AIACR Championship: just because some magazines and newspapers published points tables based on the 1938 scoring method, many people began assuming that it was a possible way to decide the championship, but research brought to light that only a new scoring was considered, not the old one. Thus the rubbish spread word that Müller was a possible champion.

#45 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 20:09

Michael, Now you have me confused. Are you saying that there were 77 events counting towards the 1946 AAA National Championship and then that the AAA then changed its mind and said that there were only six in an effort to revise history?

Note: You really need to lay this out better since the burden on proof is on you to come up with something better than telling us to read Buzz Rose. We (okay me) keep throwing information at you that is documented from a number of sources and you keep saying that they are all wrong without offering anything to back up your assertions except opinion. If it is a "revisonist thing," then offer something that looks and reads like proof so as to substantiate your thesis that there were 77 events in the championship and disprove the notion that there were only six events.

This is nothing remotely like 1939 and the CSI Euro championship, by the way. Nor like what Bob Russo maintained was another AAA conspiracy in 1920.

#46 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 07:25

Originally posted by fines
...Same as with the 1939 AIACR Championship: just because some magazines and newspapers published points tables based on the 1938 scoring method, many people began assuming that it was a possible way to decide the championship, but research brought to light that only a new scoring was considered, not the old one. Thus the rubbish spread word that Müller was a possible champion.

Michael - you made your point. You certainly qualify now for a job at the DaimlerChrysler historic tradition department. They look for people with views like yours.  ;)

#47 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 19:46

Official Bulletin AAA Contest Board, 18 December 1946, page 3.

Appeal of Atlanta Protest
After receiving testimony from everyone involved in the protest filed on the Atlanta race the Board sustained the protest filed by Ed Walsh, entran of Car 38 driven by George Connors, who is accordingly named the winner of the race. Testimony by Horn to the effect that he struck one of the cars on the track before spinning to the infield automatically involved him in the incident, and thereby prohibited his participation in the awards.

#48 fines

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 12:09

Good find, Don! :) Tx

#49 john glenn printz

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 20:30

Originally, in 1946 itself, the National Champion was determined by 71 sprint or big-car events and 6 Championship races proper. Thus 77 AAA races counted. Most historians refigure the 1946 point totals using only the six AAA 1946 Championship races. Thus there exist two different 1946 reckonings. Ted Horn is listed 1st in both accounts. If one accepts the later listing, which existed as early as 1954, Horn won the 1946 National Driving Title without having a Championship victory. Horn drove the Boyle Maserati at Indy and the Fred Peters Offenhauser/Wetteroth in the five 1946 Championship 100 mile dirt contests.

#50 john glenn printz

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 19:00

Atlanta 100 (9/2/46). On 9/9/46 the AAA declared Horn, who had almost a full lap on Connor at the time of the wreck, the winner of the event. But Connor's car owner, Ed Walsh, protested this verdict, stating that the race was not halted until after his car had completed 98 laps, which put Connor ahead of Horn. The AAA also had an old rule that any vehicle involved in a fatal crash could not be declared the winner, and as Horn admitted he had made contact with another car on his 98th lap (not completed) he was thereby excluded from any victory. The case dragged on until 12/14/46 but Connor was finally pronounced the victor by the AAA Contest Board, with race distance now reduced to 98 miles.