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1946 AAA National Championship


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#201 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 01:05

Thanks to Buzz Rose, The Eastern Bull Rings: The History of the Eastern Big Car Championships 1945-1960, Glendale, Arizona: Rose Racing Publications, 2005, pp. 34-35, an updated listing for the 1946 season.

(Date / Venue) = events either cancelled or no information available.

31 March / Lakewood (invitational/non-championship event)
14 April / Williams Grove
28 April / Williams Grove
5 May / Trenton
(5 May / Dayton – rained out)
(12 May / Winchester – rained out)
19 May / Williams Grove
26 May / Reading
26 May / Winchester
30 May / Indianapolis
30 May / Trenton
30 May / Altamont
2 June / Lakewood
(2 June / Thompson)
9 June / Williams Grove
9 June / Thompson
16 June / Flemington
23 June / Greensboro
23 June / Thompson
30 June / Langhorne
30 June / Thompson
30 June / Powell
4 July / Lakewood
(4 July / Allentown)
7 July / Williams Grove
7 July / Lakewood
14 July / Reading
(14 July / Thompson)
20 July / Selinsgrove
20 July / DuBois
21 July / Langhorne
(21 July / Thompson)
22 July / Selinsgrove
27 July / Harrington
28 July / Williams Grove
3 August / Washington
(4 August / Powell)
6 August / Milwaukee
10 August / Bedford
10 August / Batavia
11 August / Langhorne
(17 August / Batavia)
18 August / Williams Grove
18 August / Skowhegan
(18 August / Uniontown)
24 August / Hamburg
25 August / Uniontown
(25 August / Dayton)
30 August / Essex Junction
31 August / Flemington
31 August / Altamont
31 August / Hamburg
1 September / Flemington
(1 September / Richmond)
2 September / Lakewood
2 September / Flemington
(2 September / Richmond)
6 September / Rutland
7 September / Port Royal
8 September / Williams Grove
15 September / Reading
15 September / Indianapolis
21 September / Allentown
22 September / Milwaukee
22 September / Great Barrington
(22 September / Trenton)
(22 September / Powell)
28 September / Bloomsburg
28 September / Shelby
28 September / Lakewood
29 September / Trenton
(4 October / Frederick)
5 October / Winston-Salem
5 October / Lakewood
5 October / Richmond
6 October / Goshen
6 October / Williams Grove
6 October / Greensboro
(6 October / Dayton)
12 October / Richmond)
12 October / Charlotte
(12 October / Spartanburg)
13 October / Greensboro
19 October / Raleigh
26 October / Charlotte
27 October / Williams Grove
(27 October / Greensboro)
9 November / Shelby
10 November / Richmond

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#202 fines

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 16:05

Wow, this is gathering momentum!

Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to go into detail, but a few notes are due:

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


No Don, but if you underwrite it, I know where I can buy it :) (not only that, but I get a discount there ;) ) ...and then it could be put to use for research purposes.

Seriously, I did quickly thumb through it last time I was at the regional specialist auto book store. I was not specifically thinking ahead to something like this coming up, but Buzz' other books feature many photos, text on the season and some events, reprinted articles from the time on individual races and yearly point standings.

Would you like me to, or would you like to, contact Buzz about it's contents?

Or I might see him and/or the book at the Literature Faire this weekend. Any questions?


I have this and a few other Buzz Rose books, but be warned: these books are good if you're "new" to Sprint Car history, but as you learn you find out they are really wanting! Lots of good photographs with bad captions (once one and the same picture is identified as a pre-war event in the midwest, then a post-war event in the east!), "full statistics" include top 25 or 35 in season's points and a list of winners (both with the inevitable mistakes), and a narrative full of myths and (sometimes) inexcusable language - it is one thing to have no respect for AAA and USAC officials (quite common, if mostly due to a lack of comprehension), but to call Jim Lamb a Nazi and similar stuff is beyond freedom of speech, imho!

And Jim, sorry to curb your semantics, but it's not about adding Sprint Car races to the statistics, it's all about Big Cars - they're one and the same! There were a few years when AAA limited engine capacity on half-mile tracks (beginning in 1941), but sprint races were also held on the miles: Trenton, Langhorne, Lakewood etc. You see? It IS really one thing we're talking about, and those early "Sprint Car" championships really were regional Big Car championships, as opposed to the National Big Car championship. In the late thirties, you'll find that the cars in both series were the SAME!

#203 fines

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 16:13

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Pity the Poor Historian....

Calculating the points as best I can -- I cannot find the break down for the 5 milers and, therefore, guessing.... -- and the headaches start early.....

1st Heat (10 laps, 5 miles)
1. Chitwood, 10 points
2. Wallard, 8 points
3. Hinnershitz, 6 points
4. Gibbons, 4 points
5. Goss, 3 points

(snip)

Johnny Datera ? 4 + 4 = 8 ?

This is only from the 14 April event so.....


The dates for the early September Richmond races were taken from a Nunis advertisement in April dated from March and, therefore, projected dates; when I can, I will check the sanction records for any notations on date changes.

Will include the notes on Selinsgrove and Richmond in the next update.

I thought I had posted the scoring table earlier, Don, only top four finishers get points in heats under ten miles: 10-8-6-3, iirc.

And Johnny Datera: I'm sure it's a typo and should read Johnny Matera

#204 fines

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 16:22

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps

Contrary to a posting on another list, the data I have for the final
1946 AAA standings are as follows
Ted Horn 2,448 points
Geo. Robson 1,544(there was an adjustment to those points by AAA
Emil Andres 1,348
Bill Holland 1,280.6
Tommy Hinnershitz 896.8
Walt Ader 850
Jimmy Jackson 800
Joie Chitwood 693
Rex Mays 613
Duke Dinsmore 454
These were the top ten. Apparently there were point races in
November and possibly December as there was a published standing in
NSSN in November that had Horn at 2,368 and Andres at 1,208
There was an AAA bulletin of December 14, 1946 saying there had
been 78 races held during the year, paying $304,432 total purses. The
point standings for 11 through 61 make it clear that all AAA races,
100 mile championship races as well as "big car" races, counted toward
the season championship point standings, as AAA had announced in
March. And, clearly, for Horn to amass 2,448 points while placing only
third at Indianapolis while Mays had 600+ and won three 100 mile races
requires the sprint races to be included.
- Gordon White

Alright, so then 78 races... I have to admit that Buzz Rose lists 79, but a few of his appeared shaky so I came to my own conclusion, without being really sure of it... : Hmm, right now, my guess would be that the Aug 31 Flemington date is the one that's surplus...

And about those late season races: forget about it, the difference is the points adjustment from the Lakewood Labour Day race, you remember? The one which Horn had originally won, then the win was given to Connors. All late season points standings do NOT include this event.

#205 fines

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 13:10

I now realize I hadn't posted the complete scoring table before, so here comes - from a 1951 AAA Record Book, so not necessarily, but likely the scoring used in 1946:


miles  1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  6th  7th  8th  9th 10th 11th 12th

	1	2	1.6  1.2  -	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	2	4	3	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	3	6	5	3.5  2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	4	8	6	4	3	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	5   10	8	6	4	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	6   12   10	7	5	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	7   14   11	8	5.5  -	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	8   16   13   10	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

   10   20   16   12	8	4	2	-	-	-	-	-	-

   12.5 25   20   15   10	5	2.5  -	-	-	-	-	-

   15   30   24   18   12	6	3	-	-	-	-	-	-

   20   40   32   24   16   12	8	-	-	-	-	-	-

   25   50   40   30   25   20   10	5	-	-	-	-	-

   30   60   48   42   36   30   24   18   12	6	-	-	-

   35   70   56   49   42   35   28   21   14	7	-	-	-

   40   80   64   56   48   40   32   24   16	8	-	-	-

   45   90   72   63   54   45   36   27   18	9	-	-	-

   50  100   80   70   60   50   40   30   20   10	5	-	-

   75  150  120  105   90   75   60   45   37.5 30   22.5  -	-

  100  200  160  140  120  100   80   60   50   40   30   20   10

  150  300  240  210  180  150  120   90   75   60   45   30   15

  300  600  480  420  360  300  240  180  150  120   90   60   30

  500 1000  800  700  600  500  400  300  250  200  150  100   50
Nobel prize in mathematics for the first one to detect a pattern... :rolleyes:

#206 fines

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 13:30

So, let's look again at the results of the Apr 14 Williams Grove race...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The box score from NSSN April 25, 1946:

fast time: Duke Nalon, 26.92

first race (10 laps) : Chitwood, Wallard, Tommy Hinnershitz, Jim Gibbons
(Buffalo, NY), Danny Goss (Mt. Holly, NJ) -- 4:46.47

second race (10 laps) : Horn, Holland, Lawrence Smith (Bloomington, NJ)
-- 4:50.15

third race (10 laps) : Walt Ader, Dee Toran, Duke Dinsmore (Dayton, OH),
Len Duncan (Philadelphia, PA), Earl Johns (Erlton, NJ) -- 4:52.53

semi-final (10 laps) : Goss, Warke, Gibbons, Speed McFee (Buffalo, NY), Johnny
Datera (Elizabeth, NJ), Earl Johns -- 4:55.06

feature race (30 laps) : Ader, Chitwood, Horn, Toran, Holland, Goss --
14:27.01

consi (10 laps) : Johns, Duncan, Gibbons, McFee

note -- Joe Sanco (real name Joseph J. Hrysenko) of Elizabeth, NJ died
during the third heat after losing control and turning over following a
collision with George Lupto of Detroit. Sanco was born March 19, 1912.

Brian Pratt
Burnaby, BC, Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... with a couple corrections to the NSSN article, hurriedly typed to meet the deadline, no doubt. And voilà, we get:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Point Standing as of April 15, 1946
(driver, address, total points)

Walt Ader, Bernardsville, NJ, 40
Joie Chitwood, Reading, PA, 34
Ted Horn, Paterson, NJ, 28
Dee Toran, Paterson, NJ, 20
J. Gibbons, Richmond, VA, 16
Bill Holland, Bridgeport, CT, 14
Danny Goss, Mt. Holly, NJ, 13
Len Duncan, Mt. Holly, NJ, 12
Earl Johns, Tamaqua, PA, 10
Lee Wallard, Reading, PA, 8
Bus Warke, Allentown, PA, 8
Speed McFee, No. Chili (?), NJ, 8
T. Hinnershitz, Reading, PA, 6
Duke Dinsmore, Osborn, OH, 6
Lawrence Smith, Butler, NJ, 6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Not likely, I hear you say? Well, a missing name in results listed as above is a "no-brainer", really, but a missing race???

Well, consider this: there are about a million and a half ways to run a sprint meeting, with fast or staggered heats, regular or inverted (handicap) starts, semi final, B final, consi, semi consi, match race, spectator's choice race and what have you - really, I can tell you, the mind is "at its bogglest"! Now here's Roy Richwine, the promoter of the famous Williams Grove halfmile in Mechanicsburg, Pee-Ay, having his first AAA meeting in 5 years, the season inaugural and 40,000 (!) souls in the stands, but a short field - the feature ends at, say, half past three and the choice is letting the people go or dip into the rich gate and offer a few bucks in a consolation race for non-qualified cars. The NSSN scribe is long gone, but a dozen or so no-hopers put on another 10-lapper for the thrilled stands! I'm not saying this is what happened, but it is a likely scenario.

#207 fines

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 13:38

Furthermore, me thinks the results of the second and the third heat should be swopped, for I have a report saying that Ader started on pole in the feature (line-ups at WG are usually in qualifying order, reversed for heats), and the Sanco/Luptow accident would explain the lack of finishers in the heat won by Horn (mostly no more than six starters in heats).

#208 Disco Stu

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 18:14

Has there been any consensus yet as to what the full schedule was?

#209 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 14:48

Originally posted by Disco Stu
Has there been any consensus yet as to what the full schedule was?


Good question. It will probably end up as the "Usual Six" -- the events run to the championship rules, plus about 71 (or so...) of the Big Car or Sprint events. However, most of the events appear to be centered in the East with just a few in the Midwest, which is something that I find quite interesting.


Also, Michael, where did you find the points chart? I am certain that is the one I saw somewhere and cannot, for the life of me, recall where it was that I saw it....

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 13:07

The points chart is from a "1951 AAA Record Book" (or similar, I don't recall the exact title), a very simple book containing various 1950 race statistics and track as well as speed records in some sort of "multiplied typewriter form" (I hope you understand what I mean with that - there's a word for it, but I don't even remember it in German! :blush: ), with a printed appendix containing some (all?) Sporting Regulations of the AAA Contest Board.

#211 fines

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 13:19

Originally posted by Disco Stu
Has there been any consensus yet as to what the full schedule was?

I'm close to it, in fact I had planned to have it all ready today but got sidetracked. In approx. two weeks I'll present a listing of all races with date, track, distance and winning driver & car, with notes on info that isn't clear or confusing. Luckily, as far as I can see now there's only one race left where the winner's unclear (it's a 60-40 toss between Hank Rogers and Tommy Hinnershitz), and some dates that are a bit shaky. That'll be the next step, and hopefully we can get a few more race results and point standings, and eventually it'll all come good! :)

A few general stats, anyone? Before 1946, there had been a grand total of 153 championship races at 36 venues in 18 states with exactly 50 different winning drivers. In 1946 alone, there were 78 races at (again) 36 venues in 14 states. All but four of the 1946 venues were new (there's one anomaly here, I'll get to that later).

[coffee break]

#212 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 13:23

"Contest Rules," Michael.

After ages of searching for it, I finally found the book being referred to by Michael -- the "AAA Official Record Book" which was mixed in among the aviation journals in another part of The Library for some reason. I just happened to find it this morning by sheer luck -- I was looking for something concerning the surviving P-51 Mustangs in the wake of the Oshkosh accident.... and there it was!

This was published by Floyd Clymer.

#213 fines

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 14:38

[/coffee break]

Exactly, Don, a Floyd Clymer publication! Put out tons of interesting stuff in those years, this guy...

Anyway, continue with 1946 stats: Half of the 14 states had never before hosted a National Championship event, and one state had its one and only ever in AAA/USAC/CART/IRL history, I don't even have a Sprint car race in my (incomplete) records for this state - guess which one? Maine! But on Aug 18, a Sunday in 1946 Maine had its one time in the big time, at the Skowhegan Fairgrounds (perhaps the Maine State Fairgrounds?); Ted Horn was the winner.

Other first timers, most of which had rich histories of sprint car events in the twenties and thirties: Connecticut (3 races at Thompson Speedway), Delaware (1 race at the Kent-Sussex County Fairgrounds in Harrington), Georgia (6 races at Lakewood Speedway in Atlanta), Massachusetts (1 race at the Great Barrington Horse Track), Virginia (2 races at the Virginia State Fairgrounds in Richmond) and Vermont (1 race each at the Champaign Valley Exposition/Fairgrounds in Essex Junction and at the Vermont State Fairgounds in Rutland).

Those events in Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts and Vermont were, by the way, the only National Championship events in New England between Rockingham Speedway in Salem, NH (7 races in 1925-'28) and the more recent events in Loudon, NH (from 1992 onwards).

Other states back after a longer period had been North Carolina (9 races at 5 venues after a 19-year lay-off), New Jersey (7 races at 2 venues after a 19-year lay-off), Ohio (8 races at 2 venues after a 16-year lay-off) and Pennsylvania (25 races at 11 venues after an 11-year lay-off).

And yes, Don, most of the events had been in the traditional Eastern Division (63 races on 30 tracks in 11 states), just a few in the Midwest (15 races on 6 tracks in 3 states) and none in the West, except for the non-championship event at the Pikes Peak Hill Climb in Colorado Springs, CO.

#214 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 15:33

My work on this got (and is being) sidetracked by the work surrounding 1934 Eifelrennen and several items that popped up unexpectedly. I still find it quite an interesting season as I continue to wade through its story.

Your comments on the venues certainly put a perspective on things.

#215 Disco Stu

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 17:39

Comparing the 78 race points standings posted earlier with the generally accepted six race standings, it looks like those oh-so-fun AAA points adjustments will rear their ugly head again. Most drivers understandably saw their points totals rise after factoring in the sprint car races, but there were actually six that saw their totals decline when looking at the original 1946 points. Four of them are easy enough to figure out, the 9-12 finishers at Indianapolis were apparently not awarded points. Bill Sheffler was classified 9th, but only completed 139 laps. Billy Devore, Mel Hansen and Russ Snowberger were classified 10-12th but did not finish. Three of those drivers don't show up in the final standings, and Devore is down 144 points from where he was. He would've had 150 at Indy, so presumably he appeared at a sprint car race somewhere and picked up six points.

So apparently you had to run the full 500 miles, or at least real close to it (8th place Frank Wearne completed 197 of 200 laps) to score. The other two make little sense though. Steve Truchan drops 40 points. Those would've come from his 9th place at the Indiana State Fairgrounds, where he broke a rod after 88 laps. Rex Mays lost seven points, going from 620 to 613. In all likelihood he lost the 20 from Lakewood, where he finished 11th after retiring early, and picked 13 back up in a couple sprint car races. His other point scoring finishes that year were all wins. The odd part is that, unlike Indianapolis, it wasn't automatic that all nonfinishers didn't score, as other drivers who dropped out did score points. I have no idea why those two drivers would've lost points for those two races, they could've annoyed a cranky AAA official for all I know.

I don't expect we'll ever get all of the pieces together and get a 100% complete points table, so maybe this doesn't mean much, just a heads-up that about some complications.

#216 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 18:37

Originally posted by Disco Stu
I don't expect we'll ever get all of the pieces together and get a 100% complete points table, so maybe this doesn't mean much, just a heads-up that about some complications.


I think that in your comments you identify some of the specific headaches and issues that will continue to plague trying to sort this out season out in some rational, logical fashion. However, I think your last comment is spot on and a realistic assessment that I can accept. Like it or not, it could be a long time before the gaps are filled regarding this season. The issue of points and finishing is one that still baffles me at times since there is an apparentl inconsistency in what the rules seem to be. That or we are missing something....

The good news is that we are at least ahead of where we once were, which is certainly progress.

If this were easy, it would already be done.

#217 ensign14

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 08:25

Hm. Given the "points losses" were from below 8th place, were AAA pre-empting F1? :lol:

#218 Jim Thurman

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 17:08

Originally posted by Disco Stu
I don't expect we'll ever get all of the pieces together and get a 100% complete points table, so maybe this doesn't mean much, just a heads-up that about some complications.


I concur completely with Disco Stu, and I have mentioned it before...no matter how much time, effort and serious research is put into this, I honestly don't believe there ever will be an accurate points table. Why?...because they simply didn't keep good enough records at the time, and those same records likely no longer exist (unless these records show up in what Gordon White salvaged, but I think it highly unlikely).

I wonder about penalties, sanctions, points not awarded because of not pre-entering or the like, but how is one going to find records confirming any of this?

To assume, and fill in the blanks without full information, even logically, would be akin to the same sort of things that Haresnape, Catlin and Russo are guilty of.

Don, I don't think it's we that are missing something...well, actually we are, it's the formal information from the time - the AAA records - and I have my doubts (please see earlier posts of mine) that the AAA even kept accurate track of the points at the time. As I've mentioned, I wonder if they even knew at the time of any points discrepancies? If it didn't effect the champion, why bother? was likely the attitude...and who would have dared contest 11th place points totals for fear of getting on someone's bad side.

Greg Fielden found several errors in NASCAR issued point standings for the Grand National division, including a driver listed well up in the top 50, who did not even compete in a NASCAR GN race that season (!). I have the overwhelming feeling the AAA did the same sort of "records keeping".

Personally, I believe all that can be done is to go over all information and probably then still end up with the actual posted final points with annotations.

At least Don Quixote knew where the windmill was!

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 14:19

First of all, apologies for again failing to come up with a full race list - for the last two weeks I actually completely neglected my computer! I need to get into "the working mood" again...

Secondly, and to Jim: I think you are mistaken here. For one thing, it is my experience that the AAA was always very accurate with its record keeping, point standings etc. Other sanctioning bodies are sometimes a bit, shall we say, excentric, but the AAA is always straight! And 78 races is not so unusual as it sounds, actually it was quite normal to have that many races for the Big Car (i.e. Sprint Car) Championships in the thirties and forties, and AAA always published full point standings to the last place.

As for us to be able to fill in the blanks and have a full understanding of the points situation in 1946: I don't think it's unlikely at all, I'm actually quite confident that we'll be able to get exactly that done! Not in a month, and perhaps not in a year or two, but it will eventually happen, I'm positive.

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 16:24

Something I managed to miss:

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Also, am I the only one that wonders why the Milwaukee 100-miler in August is never included in the "revised" championship?

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
As far as the August Milwaukee 100 miler, no you are not alone...but it's probably something as mundane as not paying the sanctioning fee.

This is a red herring: up to and including the State Fair Milwaukee was still an IMCA track, which is probably also the reason for the high sanction number of the Champ Car event (Sep 22) - it was a late addition, after the track changed over to AAA.

I have nothing for August 6, but the following IMCA events at West Allis in 1946:
June 9: 1. Ben Musick (1937 Schrader/Offenhauser?), 2. Chick Smith, 3. Fritz Tegtmeier, etc. (this is the event where Eddie Nicholson was fatally injured - he died about two weeks later, does anyone have an exact date? He was driving the third Schrader Offy, built in 1939 or 1940 - does anyone know for sure?)
Aug 22? (State Fair Opener) 1. Emory Collins (1938? Collins/Offenhauser?), 2.? Ben Musick (1937 Schrader/Offenhauser?), etc.
Aug 24? (State Fair) etc.
Aug 26? (State Fair Closer) 1. Deb Snyder (1939? Schrader/Offenhauser???), etc.

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 16:48

So here is, finally, the full list of 1946 AAA National Championship events with notes, hopefully (at least mostly) correct!

Mar 31, non-championship: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 20 miles, 1. Jimmie Wilburn (Wilburn=1939 Morgan?/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 3.? Joie Chitwood (1940? Peters/Offenhauser?)
Apr 14, round 1: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser), 2. Joie Chitwood (1940? Peters/Offenhauser?), 3. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser)
Apr 28, round 2: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. Joie Chitwood (1940? Peters/Offenhauser?), 3. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser?)
May 5, round 3: New Jersey State Fairgounds, Trenton, NJ, 20 miles, 1. Joie Chitwood (1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 3. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser?)
May 5, rain-out: Dayton Speedway, Dayton, OH
May 12?, rain-out: Funk's Speedway, Winchester, IN
May 19, round 4: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Joie Chitwood (1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 2. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser?), 3. Ted Horn (1939 Horn/Offenhauser)
May 26, round 5: Reading Fairgounds, Reading, PA, 12.5 miles, 1. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 3. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser?)
May 26, round 6: Funk's Speedway, Winchester, IN, 15 miles, 1. Bus Wilbert (1946? Engle/Offenhauser), 2. Eddie Zalucki (1938? Iddings/Hal), 3.? Spider Webb (Kent?/Winfield-Ford)

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 16:57

May 30, round 7: Tri-County Fairgrounds, Altamont, NY, 15 miles, 1. Bumpy Bumpus (Bumpus=?/Hal), etc.
May 30, round 8: New Jersey State Fairgounds, Trenton, NJ, 20 miles, 1. Johnny Shackleford (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), etc.
May 30, round 9: Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Speedway, IN, 500 miles, 1. George Robson (1938 Thorne-Sparks), 2. Jimmy Jackson (Jackson=1938 Boyle/Offenhauser), 3. Ted Horn (Boyle=Maserati 8CTF)
Jun 2, round 10: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 25 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Jun 9, round 11: Thompson Speedway, Thompson, CT, 15 miles, 1. Oscar Ridlon (Ridlon/?), etc. (* originally scheduled for Jun 2, moved in March to make way for Sam Nunis Speedway event at Atlanta)
Jun 9, round 12: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Joie Chitwood (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), etc.

#223 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 17:05

Jun 9, round 13: Funk's Speedway, Winchester, IN, 15 miles, 1. Bus Wilbert (1946? Engle/Offenhauser), etc.
Jun 16, round 14: Hunterdon County Fairgrounds, Flemington, NJ, 12.5 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc. (* this was the race in which Howard (or Edward?) "Bumpy" Bumpus was killed)
Jun 23, round 15: Thompson Speedway, Thompson, CT, 12.5 miles, 1. Oscar Ridlon (Ridlon/?), etc.
Jun 23, round 16: Central Carolina Fairgrounds, Greensboro, NC, 12.5 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Ofenhauser), etc.
Jun 23, round 17: Dayton Speedway, Dayton, OH, 15 miles, 1. Elbert Booker (193? Jewell/Hal), etc.
Jun 29, round 18: Dayton Speedway, Dayton, OH, 10 miles, 1. Bus Wilbert (1946? Engle/Offenhauser), etc.

#224 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 17:16

Jun 30, round 19: Thompson Speedway, Thompson, CT, 12.5 miles, 1. Joe Verebly (Cavalini/?), etc.
Jun 30, round 20: Langhorne Speedway, Langhorne, PA, 100 miles, 1. Rex Mays (1938 Bowes), 2. George Robson (Corley=1938 Moore/Offenhauser), 3. Ted horn (Peters=1939 Moore/Offenhauser)
Jun 30, round 21: Powell Speedway, Columbus, OH, 7.5 miles, 1. Joie Chitwood (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 2.? Tommy Hinnershitz (THE=1934 Garnant?/Offenhauser), etc. (* opening event for Powell Speedway, originally scheduled for 15 miles but rescheduled due to excessive dust)
Jul 4, cancelled: Allentown Fairgounds, Allentown, PA
Jul 4, round 22: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 20 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. George Robson (193? Christie/Offenhauser?), 3. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser?)
Jul 7, round 23: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Johnny Shackleford (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), etc.
Jul 7, round 24: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 50 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2.? George Robson (193? Christie/Offenhauser?), etc.

#225 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 17:26

Jul 14, round 25: Reading Fairgrounds, Reading, PA, 12.5 miles, 1. Joie Chitwood (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 2.? Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Jul 20, round 26: Selinsgrove Speedway, Selinsgrove, PA, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), 2.? Red Byron (?), etc. (* opening event for Selinsgrove Speedway, designed by Joie Chitwood?)
Jul 20, round 27: Gateway Fairgrounds, Du Bois, PA, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. Tommy Hinnershitz (THE=1934 Garnant?/Offenhauser?), 3. Lee Wallard (Wallard/Winfield?) (* date may have been Jul 21)
Jul 21, round 28: Langhorne Speedway, Langhorne, PA, 20 miles, 1. George Robson (Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser), etc.
Jul 21, round 29: Dayton Speedway, Dayton, OH, 10 miles, 1. George Connor (Olson/Offenhauser), etc.
Jul 21, round 30: Selinsgrove Speedway, Selinsgrove, PA, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.

#226 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 17:36

Jul 27, round 31: Kent-Sussex County Fairgrounds, Harrington, DE, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Jul 28, round 32: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 3, round 33: Washington County Fairgrounds, Washington, PA, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 4, round 34: Powell Speedway, Columbus, OH, 7.5 miles, 1. George Robson (Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 10, round 35: Bedford County Fairgrounds, Bedford, PA, 5 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc. (* date may have been Aug 11)
Aug 11, round 36: Langhorne Speedway, Langhorne, PA, 20 miles, 1. George Robson (Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser), etc.

#227 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 17:45

Aug 11, round 37: Genesee County Fairgrounds, Batavia, NY, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc. (* date may have been Aug 10)
Aug 11, round 38: Funk's Speedway, Winchester, IN, 10 miles, 1. Elbert Booker (193? Jewell/Hal), 2. Duke Dinsmore (Johnston(e)/Offenhauser?), 3. Charles van Acker (Koz/McDowell?) (* this was the race in which Edward "Bus" Wilbert was killed)
Aug 17, cancelled: Genesee County Fairgrounds, Batavia, NY
Aug 18, round 39: Skowhegan Fairgounds, Skowhegan, ME, 10 miles, 1. ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 18, round 40: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. George Robson (Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser), 2. Emil Andres (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 3. Tommy Mattson (Culp/??)
Aug 24, round 41: Erie County Fairgrounds, Hamburg, NY, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 25, round 42: Uniontown Speedway, Hopwood, PA, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc. (* venue may have been Uniontown Fairgounds, Uniontown, PA)

#228 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 17:55

Aug 25, round 43: Dayton Speedway, Dayton, OH, 10 miles, 1. George Robson (Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 30, round 44: Champaign Valley Fairgrounds, Essex Junction, VT, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 31, round 45: Tri-County Fairgrounds, Altamont, NY, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. Tommy Mattson (Culp/??), 3. Walt Brown (193? Marion/Offenhauser) (* distance may have been 15 miles)
Aug 31, round 46: Hunterdon County Fairgrounds, Flemington, NJ, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Aug 31, round 47: Erie County Fairgrounds, Hamburg, NY, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 1, round 48: Hunterdon County Fairgrounds, Flemington, NJ, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.

(for those of you who are still paying attention: I know, I know... be patient and wait for the next post!)

#229 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 18:17

Sep 1, cancelled: Virginia State Fairgrounds, Richmond, VA
Sep 1, round 49: Funk's Speedway, Winchester, IN, 10 miles, 1. Charles van Acker (Koz/McDowell?), 2. Spider Webb (Johnston(e)/Offenhauser), 3. Elbert Booker (193? Jewell/Hal)
Sep 2, round 50: Hunterdon County Fairgrounds, Flemington, NJ, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
* this is my main conundrum: I very much doubt that Holland could have won two races in a day (Aug 31) as far away as Hamburg and Flemington! Also, I have no other year with three races at the Flemington Fair, only ever two, and sometimes only one (rainouts?). And all three won by Holland, SURELY there must be a mistake! So, scratch one? Well, I'd really like to, but I have three different drivers setting fastest qualifying time each of the three days (Hinnershitz, Holland and Wallard)! 77 or 78 races in all...
Sep 2, cancelled: Virginia State Fairgrounds, Richmond, VA
Sep 2, round 51: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 98 miles, 1. George Connor (Walsh=1935 Moore/Offenhauser), 2. Steve Truchan (Chai/Offenhauser), 3. Emil Andres (Andres=1933 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser) (* scheduled for 100 miles, stopped due to multiple accidents)
Sep 6, round 52: Vermont State Fairgrounds, Rutland, VT, 10 miles, 1. Lee Wallard (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 7, round 53: Juniata County Fairgrounds, Port Royal, PA, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 8, round 54: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. Emil Andres (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), 3. Tommy Hinnershitz (THE=1934 Garnant?/Offenhauser)

#230 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 18:51

Sep 15, round 55: Reading Fairgrounds, Reading, PA, 12.5 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 15, round 56: Indiana State Fairgounds, Indianapolis, IN, 100 miles, 1. Rex Mays (1938 Bowes), 2. Mauri Rose (1937? Lencki/Offenhauser), 3. Emil Andres (Andres=1933 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser)
Sep 22, round 57: Great Barrington Horse Track, Great Barrington, MA, 10 miles?, 1. Joie Chitwood (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), etc. (* distance may well have been 4 miles)
Sep 22, cancelled: New Jersey State Fairgrounds, Trenton, NJ
Sep 22?, round 58: Powell Speedway, Columbus, OH, 5 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc. (* date may well have been Sep 30)
Sep 22, round 59: Wisconsin State Fairgrounds, West Allis, WI, 100 miles, 1. Rex Mays (1938 Bowes), 2. Ted Horn (Peters=1939 Moore/Offenhauser), 3. Emil Andres (Andres=1933 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser)
Sep 23?, round 60: Allentown Fairgrounds, Allentown, PA, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc. (* date may well have been Sep 21, perhaps a raindate?)

This was, by my reckoning, the 25th edition of the Allentown Fair Race, and to celebrate this (and to see if ANYBODY AT ALL is paying attention), here's a little quiz:

Many famous drivers can be found in the winners list, most of them only once: Fred Frame, Floyd Davis, Bob Sall, Duke Nalon, Joie Chitwood and Jimmie Wilburn, all of them Big Car Champions or Indy winners. Only four drivers had won the race more often than once, with another three super stars (Billy Winn, Frankie Beeder and Ted Horn) being two times winners. Only one driver had so far won more often than twice, and he was neither a Champion nor an Indy winner, yet he managed no less than six wins!

Question (a) Who was he?

Question (b) Who was the driver who would eventually equal and surpass this record, even though by 1946 he had already tried about a dozen times and not yet won once! (hint: this driver would also announce his retirement after an Allentown Fair Race many, many years later)

#231 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 19:00

Sep 28, round 61: Columbia County Fairgrounds, Bloomsburg, PA, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 28, round 62: Cleveland County Fairgrounds, Shelby, NC, 10 miles, 1. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 28, round 63: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 20 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Sep 29, round 64: New Jersey State Fairgrounds, Trenton, NJ, 20 miles, 1. Joie Chitwood (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), etc.
Oct 4, cancelled: Frederick Fairgrounds, Frederick, MD
Oct 5, round 65: Forsythe County Fairgrounds, Winston-Salem, NC, 10 miles, 1.? Hank Rogers (Fetzer/Offenhauser?) (* winner may well have been Tommy Hinnershitz, THE=1934 Garnant?/Offenhauser)
Oct 5, round 66: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 20 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.

#232 Disco Stu

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 19:03

I've got no clue about the trivia question, but I'm certainly paying attention! Thanks for posting all of this, it's wonderful info. :clap:

#233 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 19:12

Oct 6, round 67: Good Time Speedway, Goshen, NY, 100 miles, 1. Tony Bettenhausen (Russo=1939 Petillo/Offenhauser), 2. Ted Horn (Peters=1939 Moore/Offenhauser), 3. Duke Dinsmore (1939? Schoof/Offenhauser) (* originally scheduled for Sep 29, moved in March to make way for Sam Nunis Speedway event at Trenton)
Oct 6, round 68: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 15 miles, 1. Lucky Lux (Sarasta/Riley?), etc.
Oct 6, round 69: Central Carolina Fairgrounds, Greensboro, NC, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Oct 6?, round 70: Dayton Speedway, Dayton, OH, 10 miles, 1. Hal Robson (Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser), etc. (* date may well have been Sep 29)
Oct 12, round 71: Virginia State Fairgrounds, Richmond, VA, 10 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. Hank Rogers (Fetzer/Offenhauser?), 3. Red Byron (?/Dreyer) (* originally scheduled for Oct 5, raindate?)
Oct 12, round 72: Southern State Fairgrounds, Charlotte, NC, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.

#234 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 19:32

:smoking: (actually, I quit 2 or 3 months ago... Barry will be happy to hear!;))

Oct 12, cancelled: Piedmont Interstate Fairgounds, Spartanburg, SC
Oct 13, round 73: Central Carolina Fairgrounds, Greensboro, NC, 7.5 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc.
Oct 19, round 74: North Carolina State Fairgrounds, Raleigh, NC, 10 miles, 1. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser), etc.
Oct 26, round 75: Southern State Fairgrounds, Charlotte, NC, 10 miles, 1. Hank Rogers (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser), etc.
Oct 27, round 76: Williams Grove Speedway, Mechanicsburg, PA, 25 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), 2. Joie Chitwood (Nyquist=1940? Peters/Offenhauser?), 3.Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser) (* originally scheduled for Oct 20, postponed due to rain)

This was the 4th running of the already famous and important Championship Trophy Race, which would morph into the even more famous and important Ted Horn Memorial Race, and then the yet more famous and important Horn/Schindler Memorial Race. Another trivia, anyone?

(a) Name the first three winners.

(b) Name the first driver to take the (first) Trophy home after winning it twice.

And here's the rest of it:
Oct 27, cancelled: Central Carolina Fairgrounds, Greensboro, NC
Nov 9, round 77: Cleveland County Fairgrounds, Shelby, NC, 15 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), etc.
Nov 10, round 78: Virginia State Fairgrounds, Richmond, VA, 12.5 miles, 1. Tommy Hinnershitz (THE=1934 Garnant?/Offenhauser), etc.

Puh, I'm exhausted! :yawn:

#235 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 19:56


miles  1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  6th  7th  8th  9th 10th 11th 12th

	1	2	1.6  1.2  -	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	2	4	3	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	3	6	5	3.5  2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	4	8	6	4	3	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	5   10	8	6	4	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	6   12   10	7	5	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	7   14   11	8	5.5  -	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

	8   16   13   10	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

   10   20   16   12	8	4	2	-	-	-	-	-	-

   12.5 25   20   15   10	5	2.5  -	-	-	-	-	-

   15   30   24   18   12	6	3	-	-	-	-	-	-

   20   40   32   24   16   12	8	-	-	-	-	-	-

   25   50   40   30   25   20   10	5	-	-	-	-	-

   30   60   48   42   36   30   24   18   12	6	-	-	-

   35   70   56   49   42   35   28   21   14	7	-	-	-

   40   80   64   56   48   40   32   24   16	8	-	-	-

   45   90   72   63   54   45   36   27   18	9	-	-	-

   50  100   80   70   60   50   40   30   20   10	5	-	-

   75  150  120  105   90   75   60   45   37.5 30   22.5  -	-

  100  200  160  140  120  100   80   60   50   40   30   20   10

  150  300  240  210  180  150  120   90   75   60   45   30   15

  300  600  480  420  360  300  240  180  150  120   90   60   30

  500 1000  800  700  600  500  400  300  250  200  150  100   50
Oh yes, and I managed to find a formula to cover this bizarre scoring system!!!

I usually make an Excel sheet where I can put in finishing positions rather than points scores, so it's much easier to make changes and check if I have made mistakes. Most scoring methods present no problem at all, and it takes just a minute or so to find a proper formula (I even managed the '70s Swiss Championships, though that took a little longer...), but this here and the pre-1930 AAA scoring defied all attempts hitherto (and logic, perhaps too?). The problem with Excel is that it allows for only seven levels of if-statements, so that you have to be rather inventive, and it gets very complex very soon! But, alas...

Here it is:

two variables, DIS (distance in miles) & POS (final position), algorithm "if(statement,then,else)" (if [statement] = true [then], if = false [else])

=if(DIS>25,if(POS=1,DIS*2,if(or(POS<7,and(DIS<75,POS<11)),if(or(DIS<50,POS<10),DIS/5*(10-POS),DIS/POS),if(or(POS>12,and(DIS<100,POS>10)),0,DIS/10*(13-POS)))),if(DIS>9,if(or(POS<4,and(DIS<20,POS<8)),DIS/2,5*if(POS<6,6-POS,(7-POS)/2),if(or(POS<6,and(DIS<25,POS<7)),DIS/5*if(DIS<25,8-POS,9-POS),if(and(DIS=25,POS<8),DIS/5*(8-POS),0))),if(POS>4,0,if(POS=4,if(DIS<3,0,if(DIS>6,DIS/2+2,DIS-1)),if(DIS>6,DIS*2+3-3*POS,if(or(DIS=6,DIS=3),if(POS=1,DIS*2,DIS/6*(16-3*POS)),if(or(DIS=5,DIS=1),DIS*2/5*(6-POS),DIS/2*(5-POS))))))))

Nice, isn't it? And it really works, I tried it! :lol:

Originally posted by fines
Nobel prize in mathematics for the first one to detect a pattern... :rolleyes:

Ah, yes, who's going to cable Oslo and Stockholm? :stoned:

#236 fines

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 20:30

Originally posted by fines
Other sources say it was the single-seater... Actually, the team had two single-seaters by then, the old "Poison Lil" of 1932, consequently owned by Jimmy Snyder, Emil Andres and Murrell Belanger, and the new "Poison Lil" of 1936, owned by Weirick until at least 1949 and driven by many greats, most notably Mays, Duke Nalon, George and Hal Robson, Mel Hansen etc. At one point Ralph Helms owned one of these cars, but I'm not sure yet which.

It is perhaps also time to correct an old mistake which I have issued here and elsewhere - there are mitigating circumstances, though! I was fooled by a late 1935 announcement in the press that Sparks & Weirick were going to build a new single-seater for Mays, and the fact that Poison Lil looked so very different in the forties than what it looked like in the early thirties. Added to which I am notoriously weak in the late thirties and early forties - few pix and almost no original sources! So, I guessed that the Snyder/Andres/Belanger car (reported to be a second string S&W entry at Ascot) was Poison Lil #1, and the "1936 car" Poison Lil #2! Wrong!

Two recent book purchases helped considerably, firstly the already mentioned Duke Nalon biog, and then the Tom Motter Oakland book which had a picture of the second string S&W Ascot car, and yes, it much better fits the Snyder/Andres/Belanger car! Also, the Nalon book had a few more pix showing the development of Poison Lil in the late thirties, so it's all clear now: in the above records you'll find Poison Lil as the Weirick=1932 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser, and the other car as the Andres=1933 Sparks-Weirick/Offenhauser. I generally show cars as "[year] owner/engine", but when earlier incarnations are known, I show them with the equal sign. Note that this is a messy area, two examples: Jimmy Jackson's Jackson=1938 Boyle/Offenhauser was originally a 1928 Miller chassis, but it was twice so transformed that it hardly resembled its former incarnation. It kept its 1938 shape and configuration until it disappeared in the fifties, though. Also, the Walsh=1936 Moore/Offenhauser was originally a 1932 four-wheel-drive Miller! It was rebuilt in rear-drive configuration by Lou Moore in 1936, but again by Walsh in 1941 and 1946. Actually, perhaps I should've named it 1946 Walsh/Offenhauser, it did not resemble any of its former states much!

#237 ensign14

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 22:22

A 1 mile race? Were there any or is this a theoretical construct? (I quite like the idea...)

#238 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 01:01

Originally posted by ensign14
A 1 mile race? Were there any or is this a theoretical construct? (I quite like the idea...)


Yes, indeed, it seems that there were such races, particularly on the quarter-mile venues.

Of course, there is still the minor issue of actually placing information such as results and other items of interest against any list of the events....

#239 fines

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 21:59

Re: 1-mile races, I haven't come across any so far, even a trophy dash is usually three laps/1.5 miles (and wouldn't pay points, anyway). OTOH one has to wonder about the decimal points in the final standings, e.g. Holland 1280.6, Hinnershitz 896.8 etc.

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Of course, there is still the minor issue of actually placing information such as results and other items of interest against any list of the events....

Well, Don, things are coming along nicely, and possibly a lot faster than even I originally envisaged ;) Watch this space...

For the moment though, a few bits and pieces will have to suffice:

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#240 fines

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 22:03

Originally posted by fines
Jun 2, round 10: Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, GA, 25 miles, 1. Ted Horn (1939 THE/Offenhauser), 2. Walt Ader (THE=1932 Schrader?/Offenhauser?), 3. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser?)



#241 fines

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 22:05

Originally posted by fines
Sep 23?, round 60: Allentown Fairgrounds, Allentown, PA, 10 miles, 1. Bill Holland (1940? Malamud/Offenhauser), etc. (* date may well have been Sep 21, perhaps a raindate?)
further evidence that the date was indeed Monday, Sep 23



#242 fines

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 22:21

And furthermore, I'd like to rekindle interest in the trivia quiz! :) C'mon guys, it's not that difficult, I'll help with a few hints!

Many famous drivers can be found in the winners list, most of them only once: Fred Frame, Floyd Davis, Bob Sall, Duke Nalon, Joie Chitwood and Jimmie Wilburn, all of them Big Car Champions or Indy winners. Only four drivers had won the race more often than once, with another three super stars (Billy Winn, Frankie Beeder and Ted Horn) being two times winners. Only one driver had so far won more often than twice, and he was neither a Champion nor an Indy winner, yet he managed no less than six wins!

Question (a) Who was he? He was a most consistent dirt track winner in his time, when championships were won only on board tracks, and later in life he was an important race promoter!

Question (b) Who was the driver who would eventually equal and surpass this record, even though by 1946 he had already tried about a dozen times and not yet won once! (hint: this driver would also announce his retirement after an Allentown Fair Race many, many years later) Well, for anyone even remotely interested in US Sprint Car history this is REALLY a no-brainer!


This was the 4th running of the already famous and important Championship Trophy Race, which would morph into the even more famous and important Ted Horn Memorial Race, and then the yet more famous and important Horn/Schindler Memorial Race. Another trivia, anyone?

(a) Name the first three winners. Alright, the first one is really difficult, but he's been named here on TNF a couple times during the last few weeks, his initials are V. N., the second and third were both Eastern Big Car champions, but didn't win the Trophy Race in their championship years!

(b) Name the first driver to take the (first) Trophy home after winning it twice. He did win a AAA Sprint Car championship, but his son won twice as often during USAC's reign, but not during the time when "Pappy" was a big-shot of that organisation!

#243 john glenn printz

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 15:10

I may be exposing my complete ignorance of sprint car racing but...

"He was a most consistent dirt track winner in his time, when championships were won only on board tracks, and later in life he was an important race promoter!"

Ira Vail, Babe Stapp, and Wilbur Shaw were all great dirt track aces, who later were track promoters, i.e., at Syracuse (Vail), Stapp (Arlington Downs), and Shaw (Indianapolis) respectively. All three also had board track starts. My guess is you are talking about Vail. Fred Frame might qualify here too, as he may have promoted some minor races in California.

"his retirement after an Allentown Fair Race". Must be Tommy Hinnershitz!

"He did win a AAA Sprint Car championship". Pancho Carter. "not during the time when "Pappy" was a big-shot of that organisation." Duane Carter.

I have actually talked to Babe Stapp (twice), Duane Carter, and Pancho Carter.

Best regards!

#244 fines

fines
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Posted 30 November 2007 - 15:26

:up: You qualify as a BIG Sprint Car expert! :up: :smoking:

#245 fines

fines
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Posted 02 December 2007 - 10:21

Here's someone who's paying close attention to this thread! The site is huge, with data mainly copied directly from Phil Harms's records, but the author has done some research of his/her own, including for the 1946 season. I wonder if he/she'll reveal him/herself...;)

And now for a little update on the 1946 championship, the points standings after five rounds. I still haven't found much on the Winchester May race, and the May 30 standings posted earlier by John Humphries are not that helpful because they apparently include the Altamont and Trenton races as well. Also, there are probably a few errors in it, e.g. I can't see where Chitwood could have scored another ten points, and the "Eddie Husch" seems to be Eddie Zalucki rather than Buddie Rusch.

Abbreviations are obvious, I would think - let me know if that isn't so!


  P Driver	  Total   R 1  R 2  R 3  R 4  R 5	   E   R   C 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th  FT

  1 Chitwood	  174	34   34   56   40   10	   5   5   4   2   2   -   -   -   -   4

  2 Ader		  146	40   10   37   28   31	   5   5   5   2   -   2   -   -   -   -

  3 Horn		  144	28   38   48	0   30	   5   4   4   1   2   1   -   -   -   -

  4 Holland		81	14	-   13   34   20	   4   4   3   -   1   1   -   1   -   -

  5 Zalucki		64	 -   24   26   14	-	   3   3   3   -   -   1   1   1   -   -

  = Rogers		 64	 -   11   22   20   11	   4   3   3   -   -   -   1   1   1   -

  7 Johns		  47	10	-   22   12	3	   4   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  8 Goss		   45	13	6   13   13	-	   4   3   2   -   -   -   -   -   2   -

  9 Hinnershitz	44	 6   20	-	-   18	   3   3   2   -   -   -   1   1   -   -

 10 Gibbons		39½   16	8	-   10	5½	  4   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 11 Smith		  34	 6	8   14	-	6	   4   3   1   -   -   -   -   -   1   -

 12 Terry		  25	 -	0	-	6   19	   3   3   2   -   -   -   -   1   -   -

 13 Breslin		23	 -   10   13	-	-	   2   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 14 Nalon		  22	 0   22	-	-	-	   2   1   1   -   -   -   1   -   -   1

 15 Toran		  20	20	-	-	-	-	   1   1   1   -   -   -   1   -   -   -

  = Fleming		20	 -	-   16	-	4	   2   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 17 Duncan		 18	12	6	-	-	-	   2   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Pehlman		18	 -	0   10	8	-	   3   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 19 Wallard		16	 8	8	0	-	-	   3   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Stine		  16	 -   10	-	6	-	   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Cooney		 16	 -	-	-	8	8	   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 22 Warke		  14	 8	-	-	6	-	   2   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Jones		  14	 -	-   10	4	-	   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 24 McFee		  12	 8	4	-	-	-	   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 25 Verebly		10	 -	-	-   10	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 26 Volk			8	 -	4	-	-	4	   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Shackleford	 8	 -	-	-	8	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Steiger		 8	 -	-	-	-	8	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 29 Walker		  6½	-	-	-	-	6½	  1   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   1   -

 30 Dinsmore		6	 6	-	-	-	-	   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Luptow		  6	 0	6	-	-	-	   2   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Zimmerman	   6	 -	-	6	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

  = Ruddy		   6	 -	-	0	6	-	   2   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 34 Gritzbach	   4	 -	4	-	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 -- Matera		  0	 0	-	-	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 -- Sanco		   0	 0	-	-	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 -- Hoffman		 0	 -	-	0	-	-	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 -- Culp			0	 -	-	-	-	0	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

 -- Mattson		 0	 -	-	-	-	0	   1   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -


#246 fines

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 11:10

For comparison, here's the "all-time" list upto 1946:


  P Driver		E   R   C 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th  FT

  1 Murphy	   40  40  36  14   5   6   5*  2   2   9

  2 Milton	   64  63  45  10* 10   9   1   4*  2   7

  3 Meyer		35  32  24   8   3   -   3*  -   1   -

  4 de Paolo	 49  45  31   8*  5   5*  2   2   4*  4

  5 Shaw		 42  38  30   6   5   2*  2*  3   1*  1

  6 Cummings	 35  33  26   6   4   6*  1   1*  2*  8

  7 Hartz		62  60  48   5  13  11   9*  3   3   6

  8 Mays		 21  20  14   5   3   2   -   -   -   9

  9 Lockhart	 17  14   7   5   1   -   1   -   -   5

 10 Resta		12  12   6   5   -   -   -   -   -   -

 11 Aitken	   11   9   7   5*  2   -   -   -   -   -

 12 Cooper	   45  42  25   4   7   2   2*  7   1   3

 13 Hearne	   54  50  39   4   5   7   6*  4*  7   -

 14 Hill		 55  53  32   4   5*  3   4   4   3   7

 15 de Palma	 42  36  21   4   1   1   3   2   1   2

 16 Winn		 19  18  12   4   1   1   -   1   1*  2

 17 Petillo	  23  22  15   4   -   1*  -   2   2   2

 18 Keech		10  10   6   4   -   -   1*  -   1   2

 19 Rose		 27  27  24   4*  3   3   3   3   1   1

 20 Sarles	   25  24  18   3   5   4   2*  3   1   3

 21 Rickenbacher 15  15   8   3   1   2   -   1*  1*  -

 22 Cantlon	  38  36  23   3   1*  3*  3*  1   5*  3

 23 Arnold	   17  17  12   3   -   1   2*  -   2   5

 24 Elliott	  64  61  44   2   5   3   2  11   7*  2

 25 McDonogh	 40  36  22   2   2   2   3   3*  3*  3

 26 Woodbury	 28  26  15   2   1   2*  1   3   1   5

 27 Stapp		37  35  15   2   1   1   3*  3   1*  -

 28 Carey		 6   6   6   2   1   -   1   -   1   1

 29 Lewis		34  31  15   2   1*  2   3   1   2*  1

 30 Moore		26  23  15   2   1*  5*  -   -   1   4

 31 Duray		47  43  20   2   -   3   -   4*  1*  6

 32 Fengler	  19  16   9   2   -   1   2   2   1   -

 33 Frame		30  26  19   1   3   1   1   -   -   -

 34 Thomas	   31  25  21   1   2   1   -   3   4   -

 35 Snyder	   11  11   8   1   2   -   1   -   -   3

 36 Stubblefield 15  13  11   1   1   -   3*  1   -   -

 37 Devore	   33  31  17   1   1*  -   1   2   5   -

 38 Schneider	19  16   9   1   1*  1   -   -   1   -

 39 Roberts	  10   9   9   1   -   3*  2   -   -   1

 40 Souders	   5   3   2   1   -   1   -   -   -   -

 41 Shafer	   32  27  23   1   -   1*  2   -   1   1

 42 Fetterman	 4   4   4   1   -   -   1   -   -   -

 43 Nuvolari	  3   2   2   1   -   -   -   1*  -   1

 44 Chevrolet	 5   4   3   1   -   -   -   -   -   -

 45 Rosemeyer	 1   1   1   1   -   -   -   -   -   -

 46 Wilcox	   17  15   6   1*  -   1   -   1   -   -

 47 Corum		20  15  10   1*  -   -   -   2*  -   -

 48 Boyer		12  11   4   1*  -   -   -   -   1*  -

 49 Davis		16  15  12   1*  -   -   1   1   1   -

 50 Batten	   25  24  15   1*  1   2   2   1*  2   1

 51 Snowberger   49  45  31   -   5   -   2   5   2*  1

 52 Litz		 33  30  17   -   4   1   2*  3   -   1

 53 Comer		41  40  31   -   3   3* 10*  2*  3*  1

etc.

* = including shared drives

#247 ensign14

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 11:32

:eek: The mind is at its boggliest. Great work.

#248 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 20:01

Originally posted by fines
Here's someone who's paying close attention to this thread!


I am not at all surprised. Michael, you should drop him a line....

#249 fines

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 18:53

I'm not sure I understand, Don (do you know him?) - why should I drop him a line when he's bound to have a look here, now and then? If he doesn't want to reveal himself, that's fine with me, if a little bit disappointing as I sure would like to hear from him, because I am planning on shifting into high gear with my AAA Big Car research next year, and for a couple of reasons this will have an immediate impact on this thread, as already indicated. For one thing, the pre-war research is going to be very difficult, and it even looks like there are going to be quite a few gaps that can't be filled in the foreseeable future, so it makes sense to start post-war, and while working backwards in time isn't at all impossible, it is somewhat awkward, so the plan is to do the ten years leading up to 1955 first, then go back and do the pre-war stuff. In short: 1946 is the first item on the list. :)

Now, there are basically two different ways I can go about this, and both present quite a considerable investment in time and money, and I am carefully weighing pros and cons of each at present before making a decision. It would do me no harm at all to know if Mr. "ChampCarStats" is already pursuing one of those avenues (which I presume), and since I will publish my findings about 1946 on this thread, it won't hurt him, too! Promise! :)

#250 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 19:05

Michael, I think that the two of you could find some benefits to your parallel interests, particularly since you are also traveling on parallel paths. There is a community -- true, it is a very small community, but still a community -- which would be very interested in seeing this information presented and the light shined into this heretofore dark corner of the series. Keeping in mind that notion that electrons are magic and can disappear, spreading the information around a bit cannot hurt The Cause. I am very happy to see the work being done on this subject is rolling back the clouds of ignorance we had previously had to deal with....