Arrows A2
#1
Posted 10 December 2001 - 12:03
I never thought of this as a particularly attractive example of a Grand Prix car but the recent issue of F1 Racing has a piece about it and I must say it looks stunning. Tony Southgate's concept was very ambitious and, according to the article, figures from the windtunnel were very impressive but these never transferred to the racetrack. Only two examples of the A2 were made (one now owned by Jackie Oliver) and Oliver says he knew it was a failure almost as soon as it hit the track
oldracingcars.com
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#2
Posted 10 December 2001 - 12:32
#3
Posted 10 December 2001 - 12:58
Yes it was. Oliver said that before Southgate tilted the engine and gearbox the car was getting three or four times more downforce than the team had ever managed before. The problem was too much downforce and the chassis had to be strengthened adding weight...Originally posted by Zawed
The A2, was that the one with the slightly tilted engine for lower centre of gravity or something?
#4
Posted 10 December 2001 - 14:33
#5
Posted 10 December 2001 - 14:50
#6
Posted 10 December 2001 - 15:12
#7
Posted 11 December 2001 - 15:05
I seem to remember that Tony Southgate tilted the engine not to lower the CG, but to smooth the air flow under the car, trying to create a venturi tube all across the car's bottom. Maybe this is the reason for such downforce figures.
I think this should add some complexity to the transmission. Any information about this issue?
Carlos
#8
Posted 11 December 2001 - 15:15
#9
Posted 11 December 2001 - 15:49
kicks in. You really do feel like you are on rails. What is amazing about grounds effects is what Parker Johnstone told me one time. He said if you changed the angle of attack by more than 13 degrees you could lose more than 70% of your downforce. I can only imagine what that would be like if you were going through a fast sweeper, etc.
#10
Posted 11 December 2001 - 17:02
Originally posted by Wolf
I like that car, it had something special in its look... The camera angle in this photo (from Motor Racing Retro), IMHO, particularly flatters the car.
That's always been my favorite shot of that car.
#11
Posted 11 December 2001 - 17:52
I'm thinking particularly of the '92 Brabham and the '95 McLaren. Can anybody think of a succesful car with a similarly shaped front end?
#12
Posted 11 December 2001 - 17:55
#13
Posted 11 December 2001 - 18:26
I like that car, it had something special in its look... The camera angle in this photo (from Motor Racing Retro), IMHO, particularly flatters the car.
Wolf:
I also like the car. It is one of my all-time favourites.
I am not sure if there's something wrong with the shot. I think those are the real proportions of the car. The car is lower than contemporary cars. Look at Patrese's eyes heigh compared to the front and rear wheels. It is lower than say, same year Jarier's Tyrrell, Tambay's McLaren, Depailler's Ligier (all of them in Argentina) or Mass' Arrows A1B in Spain (side views) shown in the same page.
Also, it is very interesting to note the shape of the floor, clearly seen near the lower inner side of the right-front tyre. Here we can see that the curvature begins at the driver's back.
Just dreaming a little: don't you think this car would look beautiful with a closed cockpit, such as a Jet fighter and a covered engine?
Carlos
#14
Posted 11 December 2001 - 20:46
And a enginecover would make it even more beautifull than it allready is. The bulletnose is far more pretty than todays streched witchesnoses. One other example of a great bulletlike nose is the 1982 Tyrrell
On second thoughts, I think the A2 looks simulair to the Lotus 88 that came two years later.
That had no frontwing and some sort of rearspoiler instead of a full wing, just like the A2.
Does anybody know this is just coincidence or is the remsemblance due to the same designchoices?
#15
Posted 11 December 2001 - 21:47
#16
Posted 12 December 2001 - 15:26
Originally posted by No27
I think the A2 looks simulair to the Lotus 88 that came two years later.
The Lotus 88 may have looked similar but was a far more complex design aimed at getting around the rulebook of the time by having two chassis. The Arrows A2 , while slightly weird looking, was comparatively conventional.
#17
Posted 12 December 2001 - 19:51
I added an engine cover and a closed cockpit to the Arrows A2. Looks more fluid.
You can see it at:
http://www.geocities...l?1008186191138
BTW, how can I insert the picture in my post? Not only make reference to a web page?
Wolf: Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am going to write 1000 times flatter <> flatten!!!
#18
Posted 12 December 2001 - 21:20
Originally posted by carlos.maza
BTW, how can I insert the picture in my post? Not only make reference to a web page?
Rightclick mouse on picture and choose "properties", select and copy the URL.
In the buttonbar at the posteditting page, choose the button IMG, click it and paste the URL.
That's it, and it took me nearly a day to find out
By the way, the closed cockpit looks excelent! Can you smoothen the enginecover? The two bulges somehow detonate with the rest of the car. (O, that's me, being too critical, I apologize)
#19
Posted 15 December 2001 - 18:27
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#20
Posted 03 July 2009 - 18:23
#21
Posted 11 December 2010 - 18:16
#22
Posted 12 December 2010 - 02:35
#23
Posted 12 December 2010 - 03:35
#24
Posted 15 December 2010 - 18:41
#25
Posted 15 December 2010 - 22:39
Thanks guys. Anymore anyone
Patrese, Dutch GP 1979
Photo copyright- simonlewis.com
The late Ken Wells (author of several books on Le Mans in the late 1980s) owned an A2 at the time of his untimely death in the early 90s.
He once told me he opened the garage doors to allow a vistor to show his son a real F1 car in the flesh... and the lad promptly jumped very forcefully onto the sidepod....
Luckily the Arrows proved to be up to the battering, thus illustrating the point that it was somewhat stronger/heavier than was really good for it.
#26
Posted 16 December 2010 - 16:40
I remember that one being for sale in the earlt 90s for just 25k as a roller. That one is now in Japan and in a very poor state with lots of components missing.Patrese, Dutch GP 1979
Photo copyright- simonlewis.com
The late Ken Wells (author of several books on Le Mans in the late 1980s) owned an A2 at the time of his untimely death in the early 90s.
He once told me he opened the garage doors to allow a vistor to show his son a real F1 car in the flesh... and the lad promptly jumped very forcefully onto the sidepod....
Luckily the Arrows proved to be up to the battering, thus illustrating the point that it was somewhat stronger/heavier than was really good for it.
#27
Posted 16 December 2010 - 20:07
I remember that one being for sale in the earlt 90s for just 25k as a roller. That one is now in Japan and in a very poor state with lots of components missing.
#28
Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:51
Simon; the good news is the other one (only two were built) will be on track again sometime in the future!
#29
Posted 17 December 2010 - 15:21
Simon; the good news is the other one (only two were built) will be on track again sometime in the future!
Weren't there three?
#30
Posted 18 December 2010 - 18:31
Definently not........Weren't there three?
#31
Posted 18 December 2010 - 18:55
#32
Posted 18 December 2010 - 18:58
Edited by Thundersport, 18 December 2010 - 18:59.
#33
Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:50
It has never existed.
But will do when the value makes it worthwhile to build!
#34
Posted 19 December 2010 - 15:59
But will do when the value makes it worthwhile to build!
#35
Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:38
#36
Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:34
I am still in doubt. By the way, what lettering is seen between the engine and the start number on the right hand side of the car?
PATENT PENDING
#38
Posted 01 March 2011 - 22:16
#39
Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:23
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#40
Posted 12 September 2011 - 21:06
No that one is the Nurburgring ring mueseum car the Japan car is still in Japan. Check here for a little A2 "fun"..............http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101159One was on display last week at the Nürburgring, is it the car from Japan ?
Edited by Thundersport, 12 September 2011 - 21:19.
#41
Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:03
I uploaded the photos of the one on display at the Nurburg museum, it looks great with all the original bodywork :
http://www.gurneyflap.com/formule170's3.html
#42
Posted 19 September 2011 - 12:20