88 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

I saw three different nose sections, all in different liveries and none matching the rest of the car. I got the impression that they had accumulated a motley collection of March bits and pieces, and were trying them out to see which worked best.

[f1steveuk]

"I tested the 6-wheeler three or four times. I think once at Goodwood and the
other times at Silverstone. There were a few teething problems with the
transmission - but eventually it all worked OK.
I do not recall Max ever asking me to go easy on the power. In fact the
last test in the pouring rain at Silverstone I used full acceleration without
encountering any traction problems. Quite impressive . Roy Lane called me
and asked about that aspect ( and its tight turning characteristics ) before
he did the deal with March.
Yes I saw the car at the Festival. I did comment that it was the first time
I had ever seen it going round a circuit. All the other occasions I was in the
driving seat !
I will send you a photo which is relevant".

Well the article I recall is at home, and I wont be there for another three weeks, but it was the press launch, not testing, whatever, I'll find the article and see if that error was down to me for brain fade, or the writer of the article.

Still, you can't beat hearing this sort of thing direct from those 'what did it'.

[Giraffe]

I saw three different nose sections, all in different liveries and none matching the rest of the car. I got the impression that they had accumulated a motley collection of March bits and pieces, and were trying them out to see which worked best.

Friday's nose worked rather poorly and was gradually being ground away, as can be detected in this pic


By giraffe138 at 2011-07-29

...& here's Sunday's nose. Looking for Saturday's.........


By giraffe138 at 2011-07-29

Edited by Giraffe, 29 July 2011 - 11:20.

[David Beard]

...& here's Sunday's nose. Looking for Saturday's.........
By giraffe138 at 2011-07-29

Same one...

[Arjan de Roos]

A nice Merzario/Brambilla sponsor combo!

[cheapracer]

It should be plain white

What a silly comment

[D-Type]

What a silly comment

If you read the whole sentence it is not in the least silly. It says

It should be plain white (as tested) or Guyson colours as used by Roy Lane !!!!

What was not written was "If this is to be an authentic livery as used in period "

Obviously there is nothing to stop the current owner painting it in Gold Leaf colours (without the cigarette brand name or the sailor's head), Gulf colours or any other one he wants, but surely that would be even sillier.

[Giraffe]

"If this is to be an authentic livery as used in period "

I would hazard a guess that it isn't going to remain the dog's breakfast that it is now, and will assume some sort of plausable identity in due course.

[Chris Bloom]

As mentioned in the article above, there was a Scalectrix model of March 2.4.0
I very well remember my disappontment when, as a boy, I bought one, took it home and... discovered it was only 2wd.
Besides, the small rear tyres made it almost unuseful ; probably the slowest Scalelectrix ever.

I also remember it as one of my slower Scalextric cars. I'd completely forgotten about it, now reading your post Paolo has made me all nostalgic.

[T54]

Toy was sold for 49 Pounds.

WIKIWIKI on March 6-wheel
Interesting reading, not sure if accurate but Howden can certainly help us.

Question is, how many of these were built? I am under the impression that there was only one, so why are there at least two now???

[arttidesco]

If Howden tested the 2 4 0 in Beta / New Hero livery that will do for me is there any way we can put up an opinion on the colour scheme this 2 4 0 'should' be ?

[BANZAI]

Howden testing the March at a wet Silverstone



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Ted Walker]

I stand corrected, there nothing like "period proof" and there it is.

[Giraffe]

More from Howden last evening....




Re the 6-wheeler. I followed the link to Wikipedia . They have rather got the whole
thing around their necks ! A mishmash of fact and fiction. I have asked Erin to
see if she can find the picture of me in the car at Silverstone with Beta livery on
the side and ( i think ) the Hero black nose.

Howden

[MCS]

In particular what was Douglas Shierson Racing involvement, around that time I believe Howdy Holmes was doing F Atlantic races with the team.

There has to be a story here and I am surprised nobody has picked up on it.

Why on earth did the car have a nosecone labelled "Douglas Shierson Racing" ?

[Alan Cox]

Why on earth did the car have a nosecone labelled "Douglas Shierson Racing" ?

The Ganley test car appears to be carrying a hotch-potch of bodywork found in the factory comprising a set of panels from Brambilla's 761 and a nosecone from one of Doug Shierson's 76B Atlantic cars I presume they were interchangeable with the F1 car. Would this be a reasonable supposition?

[Tim Murray]

There are some anomalies here. According to the Mike Lawrence March book, the 2-4-0 tested by Ganley was built onto chassis 761/2, which had been Stuck's regular chassis during 1976, Brambilla using 761/1. If this is correct surely the tub, at least, on the Ganley 2-4-0 wouldn't have been Beta orange.

[Alan Cox]

From what I can remember, the car first ran in the Rothmans sponsership as Ian Scheckter was the nominated driver.

http://www.forix.com...s/is-silv77.jpg

Rear wheels are too far apart, that show car and the Williams look better.

Possibly it looks like that because it's using smaller circumference tyres than the original. The modern version appears to be using same-sized tyres all round. The one in the Louwman Museum appears to use slightly larger rears.

[mfd]

http://www.forix.com...s/is-silv77.jpg
Possibly it looks like that because it's using smaller circumference tyres than the original. The modern version appears to be using same-sized tyres all round. The one in the Louwman Museum appears to use slightly larger rears.

There is a story in Autosport this week which says (not verbatum) they found a rear end for the car & spent two years on the project

[Cynic2]

The Ganley test car appears to be carrying a hotch-potch of bodywork found in the factory comprising a set of panels from Brambilla's 761 and a nosecone from one of Doug Shierson's 76B Atlantic cars I presume they were interchangeable with the F1 car. Would this be a reasonable supposition?

Yes, it would, and the confirmation is "T. Edwards."

T. Edwards (for Tom Edward Fraser) was a ladies clothing company in Atlanta in the late 1970s and early '80s. The owner was very interested in racing (which I guess is why my Ferrari 206 SP was maintained in their warehouse, although it's a rather long story) and sponsored someone -- I forget who -- in the Atlantic series. I was really surprised when I saw that nose on a March 6-wheeler, as there's no way T. Edwards was a sponsor of the team -- or any F1 team -- in period.

Edited by Cynic2, 30 July 2011 - 18:08.

[Michael Ferner]

March was infamous for bodywork that didn't really fit properly. I would guess they just picked one that came closest to a "good" fit, regardless of livery.

[MCS]

The Ganley test car appears to be carrying a hotch-potch of bodywork found in the factory comprising a set of panels from Brambilla's 761 and a nosecone from one of Doug Shierson's 76B Atlantic cars I presume they were interchangeable with the F1 car. Would this be a reasonable supposition?

I'm really not sure - an Atlantic nose that fits an F1 car? Seems odd - but then most of this doesn't quite stack up.

[racinggeek]

I'm really not sure - an Atlantic nose that fits an F1 car? Seems odd - but then most of this doesn't quite stack up.

I would think that nose was from a 76A, the F5000 car. Shierson ran such a car for Maurizio Flammini in the last one or two F5000 races of the year (well, last ever) in the US with the New Hero paint design, whatever New Hero is.

Edited by racinggeek, 30 July 2011 - 21:01.

[T54]

Flammini drove the #91 New Hero/Shierson Racing March 76A at Riverside in October 1976 and DNFed after 7 laps with a busted half-shaft.

Sometimes, slot car enthusiasts can come up with great info such as this link to SLOT FORUM...
Looks like one and the same, so today there is at least one too many...

[mfd]

Flammini drove the #91 New Hero/Shierson Racing March 76A at Riverside in October 1976 and DNFed after 7 laps with a busted half-shaft.

Sometimes, slot car enthusiasts can come up with great info such as this link to SLOT FORUM...
Looks like one and the same, so today there is at least one too many...

As seen on Post 30 "Alansart's question on this thread..."

[Marc Sproule]

Yes, it would, and the confirmation is "T. Edwards."

T. Edwards (for Tom Edward Fraser) was a ladies clothing company in Atlanta in the late 1970s and early '80s. The owner was very interested in racing (which I guess is why my Ferrari 206 SP was maintained in their warehouse, although it's a rather long story) and sponsored someone -- I forget who -- in the Atlantic series. I was really surprised when I saw that nose on a March 6-wheeler, as there's no way T. Edwards was a sponsor of the team -- or any F1 team -- in period.

Price Cobb carried T Edwards logos. Small one behind the rf wheel in this one.

http://www.flickr.co...157623186773769

Lots more unscanned images of him in the car in my archives. They will see the light of day some day.

[Marc Sproule]

I would think that nose was from a 76A, the F5000 car. Shierson ran such a car for Maurizio Flammini in the last one or two F5000 races of the year (well, last ever) in the US with the New Hero paint design, whatever New Hero is.

If memory serves, New Hero was "clothing" company. The clothes--for the guys anyway--were sorta hippy, loose, baggy lightweight shirts and pants.

A few images from that weekend are buried somewhere in my archives, unscanned.

[Kevan]

There are some anomalies here. According to the Mike Lawrence March book, the 2-4-0 tested by Ganley was built onto chassis 761/2, which had been Stuck's regular chassis during 1976, Brambilla using 761/1. If this is correct surely the tub, at least, on the Ganley 2-4-0 wouldn't have been Beta orange.

A couple of interesting quotes from the Mike Lawrence book

'In 1979, however the 2-4-0 did appear in some hillclimbs after Roy Lane persuaded Robin to lend him the currrent entity of the car (if that sounds enigmatic, see the appendix for 1977) and he won several events even though the car's greatest asset, it's advantage in a straight line, was not usable on short, twisty British hillclimbs'

and

'Ironically, the 2-4-0 was the most profitable car March had made, for Scalextric bought the rights and royalties came in for years.....In addition, March made a small fortune by hiring it (or rather them) to shows and exhibitions.

According to the season-by-season appendices for 1976/7:

761/1 received the tub from 761/3 for the Swedish GP. After a crash at the 'Nurburgring it was rebuilt with monocoque no 761/10. It crashed again at the Osterreichring and was rebuilt with an un-numbered tub. By strict reckoning, 761/1 had ceased to exist on anything but a carnet and a chassis plate. It was then rebuilt as a six-wheeler (non-driveable) for March's press release of its' new concept and was then dismantled and used as the basis for 761B/2

761/2 was converted to a six-wheeler for the concept's first two test sessions. In early 1977, it was sold to Space Racing as a four-wheeler for Brett Lunger

761/5 (nee 741/1, 751/4) was converted into a six-wheeler for the Rothmans Press Day at Silverstone in March 1977 and then re-converted to four wheels and sold to Brian Henton

761B/4 did not race but was built as a six-wheel show car, autumn 1977

[mfd]

From Autosport 28 July 2011

"The project was abandoned in period after only a couple of test sessions, but has now been bought back by Tony Smith, who found the four wheel drive system for the back of the car. After two years of work the car was finished just in time for Smith's Son Jeremey to race it at Silverstone"

[racinggeek]

If memory serves, New Hero was "clothing" company. The clothes--for the guys anyway--were sorta hippy, loose, baggy lightweight shirts and pants.

A few images from that weekend are buried somewhere in my archives, unscanned.

Would love to see them -- Actually, I have a pic of the New Hero 76A in Paul Oxman's Road Racing Annual from that year, and it looks like the logos from then are the same and in the right places as now.

[john winfield]

I also remember it as one of my slower Scalextric cars. I'd completely forgotten about it, now reading your post Paolo has made me all nostalgic.

Might these help, Chris? Don't call them all in for tyre changes on the same lap.

http://www.ebay.co.u...8#ht_1279wt_932

http://www.ebay.co.u...7f#ht_500wt_949

http://www.ebay.co.u...03#ht_500wt_949

[Barry Boor]

Interesting description on one of those ads. Indy car????

[Giraffe]

"I tested the 6-wheeler three or four times. I think once at Goodwood and the
other times at Silverstone. There were a few teething problems with the
transmission - but eventually it all worked OK.
I do not recall Max ever asking me to go easy on the power. In fact the
last test in the pouring rain at Silverstone I used full acceleration without
encountering any traction problems. Quite impressive . Roy Lane called me
and asked about that aspect ( and its tight turning characteristics ) before
he did the deal with March.
Yes I saw the car at the Festival. I did comment that it was the first time
I had ever seen it going round a circuit. All the other occasions I was in the
driving seat !
I will send you a photo which is relevant".

Relevant photo received from Howden this morning via Erin Pritchett.....


By giraffe138 at 2011-09-08

[Glengavel]

The March 6 wheeler gets a mention in DSJ's report on the 1977 Grosser Preis von Deutschland:

(During practice) "The six-wheeled March went down the pit road and was never seen again, for Ian Scheckter could not get it round the Sudkerve and it careered on down the south circuit and into the haunted woods."

I trust this is more a comment on the 2-4-0 configuration and less on Ian Scheckter's driving skills.

[Julian Roberts]

The March 6 wheeler gets a mention in DSJ's report on the 1977 Grosser Preis von Deutschland:

(During practice) "The six-wheeled March went down the pit road and was never seen again, for Ian Scheckter could not get it round the Sudkerve and it careered on down the south circuit and into the haunted woods."

I trust this is more a comment on the 2-4-0 configuration and less on Ian Scheckter's driving skills.

I think this was a fictitious report penned by Jenks mischievously in protest at the GP being moved to Hockenheim.

[Glengavel]

I think this was a fictitious report penned by Jenks mischievously in protest at the GP being moved to Hockenheim.

I remember reading the article when it first came out and thinking "what???..."

[Julian Roberts]

I remember reading the article when it first came out and thinking "what???..."

Read the end, IIRC it concludes with Team Surtees wondering where 'Brambles' has got to. They later find his car deep in the woods with a note saying he couldn't see a way of getting it out and had gone home !

Worth reading again as (again IIRC) he puts all his favourites in a good light.

Edited by Julian Roberts, 08 September 2011 - 21:28.

[Tim Murray]

Now that we've moved on a year, has anyone acquired more concrete info about the ancestry of the Smiths' 2-4-0?

Edited by Tim Murray, 28 August 2012 - 09:50.

[Peter Morley]

Now that we've moved on a year, has anyone acquired more concrete info about the ancestry of the Smiths' 2-4-0?

Speedmaster are advertising it, anyone fancy asking them about the origin(ality) of the chassis?