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#101 MCS

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 02:07

Originally posted by cosworth bdg Un fortunately no , Regards PN.............. [/B]


Just curious - an interruptive package for sure :up: .

Just wondered if you were a) involved or b) knew why they came all this way to (sadly) go back so quickly.

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#102 cosworth bdg

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 02:28

Originally posted by MCS


Just curious - an interruptive package for sure :up: .

Just wondered if you were a) involved or b) knew why they came all this way to (sadly) go back so quickly.

After the loss of Birrana Designer Tony Alcock in the Graham Hill plane crash and lack of funds the effort was scaled back and they concentrated on euro F2 under the leadership of Bob Muir with no results and still with little in the way of a workable budget.....................

#103 MCS

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 03:24

Okay - thanks Peter.

#104 Rob29

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 07:34

'75 seems to have been the best suported season.Just checked my records and have 52 drivers having appeared in at least one round of either the John Player or Southern Organs championship.

#105 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 08:25

Great to read all of your memories of that season. Especially good to hear from Peter about the Birrana effort.

Yes, the March was Ray Mallock

#106 BT 35-8

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 08:41

Alan,

The John Nicholson appearance in the Modus wasn't as rare as you may believe , the car is M1-022-FA75 and was retained by John N. and at the end of 1976 sent down to New Zealand for him to contest the Atlantic series in very early 1977 against Keke Rosberg etc. , Nicholson ended up 4th at the end of the series and the car was then sold to Robbie Frankevic and is now owned by my brother.

Bryan.

#107 Vicuna

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 08:44

Originally posted by BT 35-8
Alan,

The John Nicholson appearance in the Modus wasn't as rare as you may believe , the car is M1-022-FA75 and was retained by John N. and at the end of 1976 sent down to New Zealand for him to contest the Atlantic series in very early 1977 against Keke Rosberg etc. , Nicholson ended up 4th at the end of the series and the car was then sold to Robbie Frankevic and is now owned by my brother.

Bryan.


Francevic rebodied it and called it a Typhoon in honour of the sponsor.

So what body does it now have Bryan BT35-8?

#108 cosworth bdg

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:04

Originally posted by Rob29
'75 seems to have been the best suported season.Just checked my records and have 52 drivers having appeared in at least one round of either the John Player or Southern Organs championship.

Yes a very well supported season and very competitive one as well.......................

#109 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:18

Originally posted by Rob29
'75 seems to have been the best suported season.Just checked my records and have 52 drivers having appeared in at least one round of either the John Player or Southern Organs championship.

What fine records you have Rob. OldRacingcars.com just has the John Player series results so far for 1975 (big nod to Atlantics expert Chris Townsend) in the UK Atlantics section and there were 45 drivers there alone:

Roberto Alvarez, Roy Baker, Len Booysen, Bill Brack, Steve Bradley, Tony Brise, Bill Burley, Paul Butler, Stephen Choularton, Derek Cook, Jim Crawford, James Crawley, Alan Crocker, Norman Dickson, Des Donnelly, Mike Franey, Rüdi Gygax (DNS), Brian Henton, Dean Hosking, Alo Lawler, Ray Mallock, Nick May, Patsy McGarrity, David Morgan, Richard Morgan, Bob Muir, Peter Munro, Val Musetti, John Nicholson, Gunnar Nilsson, Graham Perry, Freddy Phillips, Jay Pollock, John Pollock, Steve Prior, Brett Riley, Bertil Roos, Howard Rose (DNS), Phil Sharp, Matt Spitzley, Tony Trimmer, Peter Wardle, Ted Wentz, Cyd Williams and Peter Williams.

There's a lot of quality in that list. On a quick scan, I think I see eight there who raced in a GP.

May not have been the best supported season though. Chris shows 64 drivers in the 24 1971 races including stand-outs Tom Belsø, Brise, Bob Evans, Morgan D, Nicholson, David Purley, Vern Schuppan, Trimmer and Roger Williamson. And 53 drivers in the 26 1973 races including Crawford, Nicholson, David Oxton, Tom Pryce and Purley. I believe the decline in numbers came from 1976 onwards.

(BTW, hint hint, nudge nudge)

Allen

#110 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:25

Originally posted by MCS
I'm intrigued by the super shot of Wentz, Brise and Nilsson at Mallory - what a duel that must have been.
Who won though, do you remember? And who is that behind them - is he running fourth?? It looks like a March, initially. But if you enlarge the image it's not clear - well, not to me anyway.

If it's a JP round then it could be the 24 August race and we may be looking at the battle for eventual third place. Wentz dropped out and yes, the car behind could be Mallock's March 75B.

Allen

#111 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:32

Wow, great thread and as ever super pics Alan, thanks. Atlantics were just great and what an era it was with F5000 on the national race calendar at the same time. :up: Could never happen today, especially at Mallory - the noise police would lock us all up!

Seeing his name there, I had a conversation with Peter Wardle at the Snetterton F3 meeting recently. He still has plans for his own 'challenge' single seater series after many false starts and works for Jonathan Palmer behind the scenes on Formula Palmer Audi race organisation.

Cyd's BT40 was seen in both red and blue bodywork during 1973. Had completely forgotten about it in the '75 guise as in Alan's picture.

#112 Rob29

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:42

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson




Cyd's BT40 was seen in both red and blue bodywork during 1973. Had completely forgotten about it in the '75 guise as in Alan's picture.

Yellow #6 is clearly a March 73B as per my records.
Now have 74 Atlantic drivers for 1974,but I think that includes the Irish series.
48 for '73
31 for Indylantic 76
57 in 1971

#113 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:55

Interesting point, Bryan, I had forgotten - or was never aware - that Nicholson had taken the Modus 'down under'. Perhaps I should qualify it as being "..... a rare UK outing...."!

I agree with you, Mark, about Gunnar Nilsson. He was pure class the moment he appeared in the yellow Chevron and was clearly pretty earnest about taking the end-of-season races seriously.

It was the Mallory John Player round, Allen, on the 24th August, but the first couple of shots are from Oulton. I confess that I had forgotten Crawford was the victor.

Nick May put in some pretty impressive drives on occasion. IIRC he shared the outright lap record on the new Oulton Fosters circuit for a while, with Tony Brise.

Yellow no 6 is definitely Cyd's Brabham BT40, Rob.

Some great stories, and statistics, emerging here. Pleased that it has struck a chord with you.



#114 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:58

A total of 74 drivers looks right for 1974 if you include all starters in the British series plus the two late-season non-championship races at Brands and Thruxton. Don't know why I didn't look at 1974: Brise, Crawford, Jones, Morgan, Nicholson, Roos, Schuppan and Trimmer again plus Hector Rebaque, Gordon Smiley and Dave Walker.

I think the series ended Crawford - Nicholson - Jones - Brise - Morgan.

Allen

#115 cosworth bdg

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:59

Originally posted by Allen Brown
What fine records you have Rob. OldRacingcars.com just has the John Player series results so far for 1975 (big nod to Atlantics expert Chris Townsend) in the UK Atlantics section and there were 45 drivers there alone:

Roberto Alvarez, Roy Baker, Len Booysen, Bill Brack, Steve Bradley, Tony Brise, Bill Burley, Paul Butler, Stephen Choularton, Derek Cook, Jim Crawford, James Crawley, Alan Crocker, Norman Dickson, Des Donnelly, Mike Franey, Rüdi Gygax (DNS), Brian Henton, Dean Hosking, Alo Lawler, Ray Mallock, Nick May, Patsy McGarrity, David Morgan, Richard Morgan, Bob Muir, Peter Munro, Val Musetti, John Nicholson, Gunnar Nilsson, Graham Perry, Freddy Phillips, Jay Pollock, John Pollock, Steve Prior, Brett Riley, Bertil Roos, Howard Rose (DNS), Phil Sharp, Matt Spitzley, Tony Trimmer, Peter Wardle, Ted Wentz, Cyd Williams and Peter Williams.

There's a lot of quality in that list. On a quick scan, I think I see eight there who raced in a GP.

May not have been the best supported season though. Chris shows 64 drivers in the 24 1971 races including stand-outs Tom Belsø, Brise, Bob Evans, Morgan D, Nicholson, David Purley, Vern Schuppan, Trimmer and Roger Williamson. And 53 drivers in the 26 1973 races including Crawford, Nicholson, David Oxton, Tom Pryce and Purley. I believe the decline in numbers came from 1976 onwards.

(BTW, hint hint, nudge nudge)

Allen

I I now wish i was over there for that season............ :up:

#116 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:00

Originally posted by Rob29
48 for '73
31 for Indylantic 76
57 in 1971

:lol: we need to compare notes!

#117 Rob29

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:59

Originally posted by Allen Brown
What fine records you have Rob. OldRacingcars.com just has the John Player series results so far for 1975 (big nod to Atlantics expert Chris Townsend) in the UK Atlantics section and there were 45 drivers there alone:

Roberto Alvarez, Roy Baker, Len Booysen, Bill Brack, Steve Bradley, Tony Brise, Bill Burley, Paul Butler, Stephen Choularton, Derek Cook, Jim Crawford, James Crawley, Alan Crocker, Norman Dickson, Des Donnelly, Mike Franey, Rüdi Gygax (DNS), Brian Henton, Dean Hosking, Alo Lawler, Ray Mallock, Nick May, Patsy McGarrity, David Morgan, Richard Morgan, Bob Muir, Peter Munro, Val Musetti, John Nicholson, Gunnar Nilsson, Graham Perry, Freddy Phillips, Jay Pollock, John Pollock, Steve Prior, Brett Riley, Bertil Roos, Howard Rose (DNS), Phil Sharp, Matt Spitzley, Tony Trimmer, Peter Wardle, Ted Wentz, Cyd Williams and Peter Williams.

There's a lot of quality in that list. On a quick scan, I think I see eight there who raced in a GP.

May not have been the best supported season though. Chris shows 64 drivers in the 24 1971 races including stand-outs Tom Belsø, Brise, Bob Evans, Morgan D, Nicholson, David Purley, Vern Schuppan, Trimmer and Roger Williamson. And 53 drivers in the 26 1973 races including Crawford, Nicholson, David Oxton, Tom Pryce and Purley. I believe the decline in numbers came from 1976 onwards.

(BTW, hint hint, nudge nudge)

Allen

Thanks for those links.For some reason I don't think I have come across your excellent site before. Don't think I have anything to add,but did notice a small disrepancy;All the 1972 dates and 75 Southern Organs are missing from the calendar per 2nd link but included in the list of programmes you are/were looking for? Sorry but all my old progs are long since lost.

#118 cosworth bdg

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 11:45

Thanks to all the contributors to this post it has provided interesting info and reading. Atlantics provided interesting races and a very good Formula for competitors....................

#119 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 12:27

Originally posted by Rob29
Don't think I have anything to add,but did notice a small disrepancy;All the 1972 dates and 75 Southern Organs are missing from the calendar per 2nd link but included in the list of programmes you are/were looking for?

The reason for that is that the list of programs is the list of every race we believe took place whereas the list of results is the list of every race where Chris has researched and published the results. One day, the two lists will be the same but researching the lower categories, even one as popular as Atlantic, takes a lot of time.

Allen

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#120 David Lawson

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 13:46

My contribution to this thread comprises some of my typically creaky photographs from the 1974 Atlantics.

The Atlantic field at the British GP support round.

Posted Image

A few from the Race of Champions support round

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And a couple from the Daily Express Trophy support round.

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David

#121 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 16:04

Nice shots David. The black & white shots from Becketts - car 46, is that Tony Trimmer in the one-off F2 Royale RP20? If so did not realise it ran in Atlantic spec. Car is now owned by Andy Gilberg in the US.

#122 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 17:41

Not quite finished with 1975 yet.......All taken at the last Oulton Park round of the Southern Organs Championship (except for the one of Tony Brise)

Posted Image Nilsson Posted Image Brise

Posted Image Posted Image John Nicholson

Posted Image Needs no introduction....

Posted Image Neither does this...

Posted Image Wentz in unfamiliar black livery

Posted Image Val Musetti (apologies for light flare)

#123 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 21:59

I think Richard Morgan's car shown above is an ex- SDC Racing/Crawford car.

#124 BT 35-8

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 22:45

Vicuna,

The Modus was rebuilt back to the same form as originally left the U.K. Robbie Frankevic told me that they believed they knew more about bodywork/aero than the designer [ Jo Marquart ] then they found out they didn't.

The new set of photo's , Alan Jones March 74B , leading and winning the Atlantic support race for the British G.P. just behind him is teamate David Morgan Chevron B25 [ his old F2 car redone to Atlantic] .

The Photo below will probably not be the same meeting , as this is Bev Bond in '' probably '' the car driven by Alan Jones before it was kitted up as per the Works 742s , but it may also be a late 1973 race meeting , and this is a different car altogether.

Bryan Miller.

#125 BT 35-8

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 22:54

Sorry didn't read the captions correctly , when was the Race of Champions held , before or after the British G.P.

If before then the 2nd shot will be the same March 74B driven by Bev Bond , he then hung up his helmet and the drive went to Alan Jones , and by May 1974 the car had been rebuilt/reworked at the March factory to the 742 side radiator / long nose version.

Bryan Miller.

#126 David Lawson

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:44

The Race of Champions was before the British Grand Prix, I think it was during March.

David

#127 Vicuna

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:00

Originally posted by BT 35-8
Vicuna,

The Modus was rebuilt back to the same form as originally left the U.K. Robbie Frankevic told me that they believed they knew more about bodywork/aero than the designer [ Jo Marquart ] then they found out they didn't.

The new set of photo's , Alan Jones March 74B , leading and winning the Atlantic support race for the British G.P. just behind him is teamate David Morgan Chevron B25 [ his old F2 car redone to Atlantic] .

The Photo below will probably not be the same meeting , as this is Bev Bond in '' probably '' the car driven by Alan Jones before it was kitted up as per the Works 742s , but it may also be a late 1973 race meeting , and this is a different car altogether.

Bryan Miller.


Robbie is renowned for his modesty :rolleyes:

#128 ian senior

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:49

Fantastic pictures - thanks to everyone.

It always struck me as unfathomable why Atlantic, which was so strong in 1974 and '75 in the UK, died a death in 1976. OK, F3 showed something of a resurgence in '75 and clearly built on that the following year, but was the "Indylantic" format such a no-hoper that it effectively killed the formula? At the very least, it could have perhaps taken over as the premier national formula, given that F5000 was in its death throes at the time.

Small mention for Steve Choularton, who is sometimes overlooked in the (entirely justified) fuss made over Jim Crawford. Steve was a pretty good driver in his own right, and one for whom my father and I had a particularly soft spot, for reasons unrelated to motor racing.

#129 Rob29

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 08:18

Originally posted by ian senior
Fantastic pictures - thanks to everyone.

It always struck me as unfathomable why Atlantic, which was so strong in 1974 and '75 in the UK, died a death in 1976. OK, F3 showed something of a resurgence in '75 and clearly built on that the following year, but was the "Indylantic" format such a no-hoper that it effectively killed the formula? At the very least, it could have perhaps taken over as the premier national formula, given that F5000 was in its death throes at the time.

That was the view at the time I recall. F5000 morphed via ShellsportGp8 into Aurora F1 as Britains top formula. Atlantic was revived after a couple of years,and WAS declared britains top formula in 1981 after AF1 was dropped. I remember being one of half a dozen spectators sheltering at the back of the main stand,from the driving wind & rain mayday 81!

#130 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:04

G8 was one of the things that screwed up Atlantic. As well as the marketing issues that blighted the Indylantic series, you also had Atlantics appearing in G8 and, in some cases, deciding to put F2 engines in their cars and stay in G8 instead.

There were then a couple of revival races at Donington in 1978 before, as Rob says, the series started again in 1979. There were 50 drivers in 1979 but only Crawford, Divina Galica and Emilio de Villota got near a GP and they can only muster four starts between them. Very different to the pre-76 grids.

I have 1979 results from Chris and we will publish shortly but we're still missing a handful of programs from that period:

Croft (31 May 1976)
Silverstone (05 Sep 1976)
Brands Hatch (03 Oct 1976)
Ingliston (22 Jul 1979)
Oulton Park (BRSCC - 08 Sep 1979)

Can anyone help?

Allen

#131 ian senior

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:15

Originally posted by Allen Brown

I have 1979 results from Chris and we will publish shortly but we're still missing a handful of programs from that period:

Croft (31 May 1976)


Can anyone help?

Allen


Sent you that one by post some time ago, Allen - didn't you get it?

#132 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:43

Sorry Ian. It's in the pile by the scanner - I have no idea how long it's been there ( :blush: ) but it's a big pile!

Thanks

#133 Mallory Dan

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:59

Superb stuff Alan and others, well worth waiting for ! Allen, when did Divi do Atlantic in 79, thats a new one on me?

While I think/thought Atlantic was superb in 75, its clear that by the end of that year it was starting to decline a little. Brise dominated the year until about mid-season, when he was distracted by F1. When Nilsson came in late on, the races seemed to be revitalised, and the late year with Brise, Wentz, May, Crawford, Gunnar was excellent.

What went wrong in 76 was another matter, but I agree with Allen re the effect G8 had. F3 too was picking up, and I suppose the quicker men like Jim C, John Nick, and Mallock felt it was time to move on after 3-4 years in Atlantic.

#134 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:15

Blimey Dan, your memory is good. You're right, she didn't. The results Chris has sent me include the six F2 cars that the Atlantics ran alongside in one race and Divi was in her 792. I should have looked more closely.

So probably just the 44 drivers in Atlantics in 1979.

Allen

#135 Mallory Dan

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:28

The 79 Atlantic series here was regarded as a bit of a damp squib, but mid-season there were some damn good races. It wasn't an 'International' series of any sort, but as a National formula there were some decent cars and drivers racing : Mallock, Jim C again, Dowsett, Smith, Gorne, Jeffrey, Barton, Wainwright, May, Rackham, Hunter, Lawler,Briggs.' With hindsight, not bad at all !

#136 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:39

Didn't Lawler run away with it a bit in the new Lola? I seem to recall it was plain white with little signwriting. There was a plan to put Trevor van Rooyen in one with SDC builders backing but it did not fit in with his Team Gunston committments in South African Atlantic therefore did not happen.

#137 Rob29

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:55

Anyone remember a Scottish Atlantic championship in 1979? Looking at my 79 chart I have points scored at 4 races at Ingliston. 56 drivers in total incl;
Hitachi British
International Triple Crown
Duckhams Mondello
All Ireland

#138 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:07

There was an All-Irish series in 1979 and also a Northern Irish series; both won by Gary Gibson. The Triple Crown was Mondello, Donington and Ingliston; won by Crawford.

I don't know anything about the other three Ingliston races. Do you have note of the dates?

Allen

#139 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:08

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Didn't Lawler run away with it a bit in the new Lola?

The first race, yes, but Mallock dominated the series.

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#140 Rob29

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:29

Originally posted by Allen Brown
There was an All-Irish series in 1979 and also a Northern Irish series; both won by Gary Gibson. The Triple Crown was Mondello, Donington and Ingliston; won by Crawford.

I don't know anything about the other three Ingliston races. Do you have note of the dates?

Allen

Ingliston dates;
8th April 1st Graham Hamilton,2nd Dave Muter, NS Gary Gibson
6th May ? cancelled as no drivers identified as taking part!
+ 3 more I did not record dates but
August or later
Results;1st Andy Barton,2nd Andrew Jeffrey,3rd,Bryce Wison
1st Berard Hunter,2nd Alo Lawler,3d Lawrence Jacobson
1st Andy Barton,2nd Gary Gibson,3rd Jeffrey,4th Jacobson
Guess thats all Autosport/MN published?

#141 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 14:42

The Hitachi round was 22 July and was Crawford - Jeffrey - Candy.

6 May was the date of a Glasgow Herald libre race won by Jeffrey. 21 Aug, 16 Sep and 14 Oct were Scottish libre series races but were all won by Dickson's F2 March.

I'm not sure about the results you quote but I'm wondering if the Scottish libre series ran an Atlantic category in 1979 and announced an Atlantic champion.

Allen

#142 Mallory Dan

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 15:31

Agree with Allen, Rob. I don't recall anything re a Scottish FA series at all that year, or any other year ! Trevor van R in a T760, that would have been interesting.

I've always wondered why that Lola didn't sell into the States at all, given the Haas dealership, the fact that it was touted as a full GE car, and the late deliveries of the Ralts. Of course we knew it turned out to be a dog, but that wasn't known at the time, and IIRC Lola were keen to get it developed, taking it to Ricard for winter testing, which was unusual for an FA car at that time. Maybe Haas knew it was gonna be rough, and put his clients off it !!

#143 Rob29

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 16:24

Originally posted by Allen Brown
The Hitachi round was 22 July and was Crawford - Jeffrey - Candy.

6 May was the date of a Glasgow Herald libre race won by Jeffrey. 21 Aug, 16 Sep and 14 Oct were Scottish libre series races but were all won by Dickson's F2 March.

I'm not sure about the results you quote but I'm wondering if the Scottish libre series ran an Atlantic category in 1979 and announced an Atlantic champion.

Allen

Looks like it must have been a sub-class of the Libre series-maybe not a championship as such which may account for the fact that I do not have a name for it.
Maybe of interest that Atlantic still exists as a sub-class of Historic Euro F2 currently lead by one of my favouite drivers-Amanda Whitaker.

#144 Chris Townsend

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 16:22

Brilliant pics!

Perhaps the most interesting one is the Ted Wentz in unfamiliar livery - because this is the works development car
[HU18] rather than his regular T360-HU7 which had just been pureed by Roy James. Trimmer would run this car
in the early 76 rounds, then to Mike King and by 1978 Carl Leibich in USA.
Car is now back in UK and being restored.

Divi did do Atlantic, but in the US and Canada, in 1978 with Opert and Olympus backing, and did quite well...

#145 Chris Townsend

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 15:33

In the pics from the Race of Champions meeting is another real rarity.
The #10 green and yellow car should, from its number, be Ray Mallock in the 1974 Ensign FB car.
I've never seen a picture of this car before.

In the Mallory hairpin picture of Brise, Nilsson, Mallock, whose is the red Chevron B29 that's right inside Brise's gearbox?
I presume it has to be Derek Cook, and if it's the first lap on Aug 24 both Cook and Brise must have made blinding starts as they
qualified well down [9th and 10th respectively.

#146 Stephen W

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 15:47

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
In the pics from the Race of Champions meeting is another real rarity.
The #10 green and yellow car should, from its number, be Ray Mallock in the 1974 Ensign FB car.
I've never seen a picture of this car before.


I think you'll find it is Stan Matthews in a March whatever number he was running!

:wave:

#147 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 16:14

This one?

Posted Image

Any chance that's 18? That was Stan Matthews' old car in the hands of Chris Oats but didn't appear at that race. Or did it...

Allen

#148 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 16:50

It does look like Stan's old car but not him - he stopped driving in '73.

#149 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 17:27

It rained in practice as well as in the race. Any chance these pics are from practice and that Oats was present?

#150 David Lawson

David Lawson
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Posted 24 August 2006 - 19:01

I did take the R of C support photographs in practice rather than the race.

David