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100 greatest drives: The can is open, the worms are loose...


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#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 18:57

There is an old sporting adage 'get your retaliation in first!'

Well, Motor Sport magazine has run a feature in the January issue (I got mine today) wherein it uses a huge panel of 'experts' to nominate the 100 Greatest Drives in motor sport.

I cannot argue with #1 - Fangio at the 'Ring in 1957 - BUT ......

HOW ON EARTH CAN THEY IGNORE DAN GURNEY'S FANTASTIC PERFORMANCE AT SPA IN 1964 WHEN HE TOTALLY DESTROYED THE FIELD (INCLUDING ONE J. CLARK!)? To fail to include this in the top 100 is nothing short of scandalous!

I know all posters will have their favourites but the omission of any drive by DSG, especially Spa '64 leaves me almost speechless with disbelief. :mad:

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#2 Gary C

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 19:15

I must admit Barry, when I read the article this morning, the Spa win DID come to mind! I'm going to go away and have a think now.

#3 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 19:25

..........and what about Chris Amon at Clermont Ferrand in 1972?..........

#4 Don Capps

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 19:51

Hmmmm, I would like to see the list since Paul asked me for my input. In fact, I had real problems with my choices since, along with everyone else, I was asked to limit them.... I know that I was asked for my choices for any automotive (four-wheeled) event and that really opened up the headaches.

However, having said that, I am a bit surprised that Spa didn't make the cut. It did cross my mind, but as I pared down my list, it obviously fell off. Gad, I am trying to remember my choices now that I am thinking about it!!!

Hmmm, is the "panel of experts" listed?

#5 byrkus

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 19:52

...or Monza 1967??

I know that at this point I'm about to get angry looks if not something worse :cool: :

DIJON 1979!!

:lol: :up: :up:

#6 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:08

This might not be old enough to qualify for TNF, but in my brief racing life time...


1999, Le Mans. The All-japanese driver Toyota team. The lead BMW had a commanding lead and the 2nd place BMW and third place Toyota were within shouting distance of each other. The lead BMW broke a roll bar which jammed open the throttle and poor JJ Lehto went flying off the circuit. Suddenly the Toyota drivers came alive with the thought of victory in their mind and put on a stirring drive which only ended when a tire exploded, sealing up the victory for BMW. Everyone raved about how much they had stepped up their game, even Martin Brundle in the other Toyota saying "they've never shown this level of pace, in no test or practice session, not even qualifying" and they received the biggest cheer on the podium.

#7 rdrcr

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:21

Another one...

Graham Hill at the Grand Prix of Monaco.

While in the lead, didn't he go off course trying to get around another car, get out and push his car around in the right direction, re-enter the race and then proceed to claw his way to front to take the win? I think that it was in '65.

Barry, as you were there, I'm pretty sure you might have offered this one up as one of the 100 greatest drives in history.

#8 Don Capps

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:25

Ross, That is one I didn't think of -- unfortunately, but it is exactly the sort of races I tend to place into nomination. This is a good one, I remember being impressed and took it as a sign that perhaps The Apocalypse had moved a few meters to the right....

#9 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:35

Dammit! This is now two threads about this month's edition of Motor Sport! We have a postal strike round my area so I won't get mine (plus two christmas cards, two presents, two job offers etc.) until after Christmas!!! Grr! When I finally get round to seeing WHAT is on - I'll reply.

But, I still state Panis' win at Monaco in 1996 was a superb drive - pit stragety, holding on against an inferior car, mastering the conditions brilliantly. I would hope that is there? Barry or Gary, would you be able to tell me if it is. If not, I will join the Barry Boor Crusade of Favourite Drivers' Best Drives Being Ignored In History Club!

#10 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:38

For general information:

Clark - Monza 1967 is at #6
Arnoux - Dijon 1979 - #11
Hill - Monaco 1965 - #54 !!!!!!!!!

Don, your name is in the Jury List. As is virtually every other English speaking racing journalist (but not Andrew Marriot????

As for the list of the Top 100, I will post them up in a few days if no-one else does it before me.

Sorry, Richie, no Olivier.

#11 bobbo

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:40

Barry:

Would it be possible (or legal!!) for a copy of the list and the "expert judges" tp be listed here so we can make up our own minds? Or further muddy the waters :eek:

Bobbo

#12 bobbo

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 20:42

Barry:

OOPS! :blush: :blush: :blush:

You replied just as I was writing my request!

Great minds . . .

Bobbo

#13 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 21:17

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Sorry, Richie, no Olivier.


"Experts".. Pah!

John Love then, surely, was there?????

:mad: :mad: :mad:

#14 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 22:00

NOPE!

#15 MattFoster

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 22:04

Arnoux - Dijon 79 at #11, where did Villeneuve score for his part in it? I had the pleasure to watch that race again recently in full and it is a classic for sure!

#16 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 22:14

:mad: : :confused:

Originally posted by Barry Boor
NOPE!


I can't believe this! Best thing I guess is to read the magazine when I finally get it & see who is in it instead, but.. I'm amazed!

Still, each to their own, I guess. :confused: :(

#17 fines

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 22:15

Without having seen the mag or the article, I just wonder: Did they include Hungary '98? I am always amazed how such a mediocre drive by Herrn Schumacher ever made it into legendary status... :rolleyes:

#18 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 22:20

I understand Anthony Davidson's 2000 Formula Ford festival win is about #70? I cant say I agree with this. Blocking the field for 15 laps on the Brands Indy circuit isnt that much, now Gilles V doing it for an entire race is something

#19 MattFoster

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 23:10

Well said Ross,

GV's win at Jarama in 81 was a supreme example of the old adage of "holding the line". I hope that it ranked highly on the list.

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#20 oldtimer

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 23:22

I hope Pedro Rodrigues' drive in the 917 Porsche at the Austrian 1000Km in 197? is well up the list.

Oh dear, that effort immediately came to mind, but as soon as you start to reflect or remember, the list starts to rapidly grow. So I'll back off, leaving Wolf to remember Moss' 1961 efforts at Monaco and the Nurbergring. :)

#21 Don Capps

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 23:36

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins


"Experts".. Pah!

John Love then, surely, was there?????

:mad: :mad: :mad:



I plead the Fifth Amendment....

#22 Wolf

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 00:10

Durst I enquire how many Moss' races were on the list?

#23 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 00:41

Despite working in the news trade, I haven't got my copy yet - tomorrow I hope - but while I was at Beaulieu researching in the library there was a journo (didn't get his name) there working on research for this feature. He was looking for details on Liege-Sofia-Liege - did that appear anywhere? I thought at the time that it was a strange choice ...

#24 cabianca

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 01:22

How about Emmo when he punted off Little Al and won the Indy 500, or Danny's spin and win victory, also at the great oval. Think Fangio thought his Monaco 2nd to Moss in 56 was better than his 57 Ring drive. Harry Schell's Vanwall among the Ferraris at Rheims 56. Don't forget Mario at Sebring in the 512 Ferrari - "I ain't gonna get beat by no f_ _ _ _ _' movie star." Wattie from last to first at Long Beach in the McLaren. Schell again at Spain in 54, ahead of the Mercs and Lancias in a 250F.
P. Hill in the Cobra coupe at Spa, between stops. Gurney in the big stockers at Riverside (several times). Hawthorn at Rheims when he beat Fangio in 53. Nuvolari in the Mille Miglia in the Cisitalia. And de Ferran's pass at Rockingham last summer wasn't bad either. Novolari at the Ring in 35. Graham Hill at Sebring without lights in the Ferrari 330 TR. Pedro, also in the Sebring night in 1959, his TR's brakes glowing, eating into the team cars. Ginther shouting at Tavoni in the pits, "How the hell did Chinetti get them that engine?" Memories, gentlemen, memories. Somehow, most of the best ones are ones that took place when you were present. They say alcohol destroys brain cells, but when I take a drink, it all comes flooding back.

#25 Bernd

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 01:54

Originally posted by Barry Boor
HOW ON EARTH CAN THEY IGNORE DAN GURNEY'S FANTASTIC PERFORMANCE AT SPA IN 1964 WHEN HE TOTALLY DESTROYED THE FIELD (INCLUDING ONE J. CLARK!)?


Come on Barry it is well known that although he hated the place Jim Clark owned Spa. In 1964 his car was suffering from gremlins galore to the point that his team mate Pete Arundell outqualified him by nearly 4 seconds. Although his car was completely buggered Jimmy still somehow managed to win this race, through others misfortune admittedly but the fact that he got that car to the finish line at all is a stunning achievement.

This is not to belittle Dans drive at all he was the second best out there, but to say he destroyed Jim Clark that day is over the top in all respects. Clark due to reasons not under his control was not even in the hunt that day, yet he still won.

#26 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 02:07

How about Max Papis, Ferrari 333sp, Rolex 24 hours of Daytona, 1996

#27 rdrcr

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 02:57

Ross, took the words right out of my mouth... a recent "Great Drive".


Matt, I agree, what of the performance by Villeneuve? - What many regard as his greatest drive, a classic to be sure.

".... What may be Gilles' signature race was not a first, but a second. At the 1979 French Grand Prix at Dijon, Renault and Jean-Pierre Jabouille posted the first win for a modern turbo car. Rene Arnoux, running well, looked to make it a Renault one-two. Villeneuve, however, asserted a definite au contraire in a sliding, wheel-banging, tire-boiling duel with Arnoux that no witness to it is likely to forget. Villeneuve's insane insistence that his slower Ferrari could beat Arnoux's faster Renault was rewarded, and he finished just ahead of the Frenchman. It is probably safe to say that this was the most exciting race for second place in the history of motor racing...."

Dennis David.

#28 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 08:47

Is Indy 82 on there? Gordon Johncock and Rick Mears spent nearly the entire race battling each other for the lead and what came was one of the greatest finishes in history.

How about IndyCar Detroit 92 where Paul Tracy showed why Roger Penske signed him a year earlier?

#29 Keir

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 12:20

.............surely the Rodriguez/Amon battle at Spa in 1970 is listed?

And don't call me Shirley!!! :clap:

#30 Gary Davies

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 12:36

Originally posted by Wolf
Durst I enquire how many Moss' races were on the list?


Me too! Can't wait to see where Mille Miglia '55, Monaco '56, Argentine '58, Nürburgring 1000 '58 and '59, Portugal '59, International Trophy '61, Monaco and Germany '61 are on the list.  ;) ;)

Vanwall.

#31 mikedeering

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 12:49

Ralf Schumacher, Silverstone 1998.

Ralf was building himself a reputation as shunter early in 1998.

Silverstone on race day was wet. Very wet. And Ralf was relegated to last on the grid. Few doubted his ability to survive the first lap in such circumstances, but survive it he did, and eventaully brough the car home in 6th for Jordan's first point of the season. Classic.

#32 Roger Clark

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 16:27

It's always interesting to consider the races you would include which didn't even make the 100. THere is, I think, nothing from the Mercedes Grand Prix team of the 1930s (although Caracciola's 1000 Miglia is there), nothing from Ascari, Brabham or Prost. Dan Gurney is in good company.

The 1951 British Grand Prix and the 1958 German Grand Prix would also be high on my list (without giving it a lot of thought)

#33 rtcoman

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 17:28

Alex Zanardi, Long Beach, 1998

#34 Don Capps

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 17:48

I hope my copy of this issue is at the house when I get home so I can see how this all panned out. Where did the 1992 Fall race in Atlanta place (that is, if it did...)?

Well, I guess that lets you know one of my choices... :lol: ...and most of the odd-ball (if they made the List at all) choices can probably be traced pretty easily from there....

#35 dmj

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 18:13

What was the year when Ari Vatanen was so down the grid on Paris-Dakkar rally that he decided to drive flat out until he regain the lead? I remember his co-driver had to be carried out of car after each stage, green in face... I even don't remember if he won or not, but for sure he closed the gap on leader, probably he regained few hours but I'm not sure was it enough to win... Sorry about total lack of exact data but I couldn't find any useful info on P-D rally history on Web, and I remember that one as most impressive race I ever saw (well, partly, on TV, but was able to monitor his progress in newspapers).

#36 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 18:23

I cheated & went to the shop & read the top 100! Strange looks abounded

I honestly am surprised that Panis wasn't there when Beltoise & Bellof (quite rightly) were there

There are some that surprise me by their inclusion (Damon Hill Japan), but the top ones seem to be fair enough (no spoilers now!)

Re. the experts.. Well, there's some who's validity to be there on unbiased thought (James Allen, voting for Ferrari!, Murray Walker & Matt Bishop) I could question but with the likes of Eoin Young, Paul Frere, Don, of course, Nigel Roebuck, Bill Boddy, Simon Taylor et al, I guess they know what they're doing....

After all, we all have different opinions...

Don, for a minute I thought the 5th Amendment was the 2nd & I thought "The right to bear arms?!" - that's a bit harsh! (but then I remembered what IS the 5th Amendment :blush:

What actually annoyed me the most was once again, Paul Fearnley's use (seemingly fashionable these days of using short sentences

for example:

The Picnic. Yum. Cheese. Quirky. Wine. Refreshing.

I hate this type of journalistic writing. I didn't learn English Langauage with the notion of being a journalist to write like that. Who was it (Roebuck? Jenks?) that said good motor racing journalism is done from the heart & reflects as such." I would write in but I doubt it'll have much chance of being printed....

#37 rolando

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 18:43

To my mind the BOAC 1000 kms race in 1970 was the best legendary drive by Pedro Rodriguez, he finished the race with 5 laps to spare... it must be included on that list :)

Of course it was raining that day, and he was driving a beast called "Porsche 917" :smoking:

#38 Barry Boor

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 19:01

Sorry, everyone; bit of a cods on my part; Villeneuve - Dijon '79 IS there at #10.

I plead insanity! :blush:

Number of Moss entries: 6

Rodriguez - Brands 1970 - #12

Zanardi - Long Beach 1998 - #55

GV - Jarama 1981 - #9

Fines: Hungary 1998 - #23. Schumacher also has Barcelona 96 at #26, Spa 1995 at #25, Barcelona 1994 at #17 and Spa 1997 at #68.

Bernd - I don't care what problems Clark had that day (I know there was practice problems but what problems did he have in the race?) no-one was in Dan's class that afternoon. To say that Clark won is factually accurate but morally outrageous! Fourth was his best hope and he lucked into first in a BIG way. (Probably the only F1 win he ever lucked into.)

However, as Richie says 'each to his own'. I'm just a bit sad that names like Soheil Ayari, Dave Coyne and Michael Vergers are in this list but Dan Gurney is not!

#39 Gary C

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 19:36

OK lads, deep breath here, here we go...................
100 - Rosemeyer 1937 Record week
99 - Johnny Herbert 1989 Brazilian GP
98 - Erik Carlsson 1963 Spa-Sofia-Liege
97 - Jim Clark 1962 German GP
96 - Pietro Bordino 1923 Italian GP
95 - Stirling Moss 1959 1000kms Nurburgring
94 - JJ Lehto Le Mans 1995
93 - Ivan Capelli 1990 French GP
92 - Alan Kulwicki 1992 Hooters 500
91 - Alan Moffat 1970 Bathurst 500
90 - Johnny Thompson 1957 Langthorne 100
89 - Alessandro Cagno 1906 Targa Florio
88 - Achille Varzi 1931 Targa Florio
87 - Jim Clark 1966 RAC Rally
86 - Henri Toivoven 1985 RAC Rally
85 - Parnelli Jones 1970 Trans Am Finale
84 - Stig Blomqvist 1996 RAC Rally
83 - Jim Clark 1962 1000kms Nurburgring
82 - Juan Pablo Montoya 2000 Michigan 500
81 - Pat Moss 1960 Liege-Rome-Liege
80 - Jim Clark 1963 Belgian GP

more in a moment...................

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#40 Don Capps

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 19:41

I can tell you already that one of those consulted for this poll definitely was marching to the beat of a different drummer.....

#41 Gary C

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 19:44

79 - John Watson 1982 US GP
78 - Allan McNish 1998 Le Mans
77 - Soheil Ayari 1997 Macau GP
76 - Walter Rohrl 1987 Pikes Peak
75 - Jean-Pierre Beltoise 1972 Monaco GP
74 - Tim Birkin 1930 Le Mans
73 - Louis Rosier 1950 Le Mans
72 - Tony Brooks 1955 Syracuse GP
71 - Keke Rosberg 1984 US GP
70 - Anthony Davidson 2000 FFord Festival Brands Hatch
69 - Michael Vergers 1996 FFord Festival Brands Hatch
68 - Michael Schumacher 1997 Belgian GP
67 - Tazio Nuvolari 1936 Coppa Ciano
66 - Frank Lockhart 1926 Indianapolis 500
65 - Mika Hakkinen 2000 Belgian GP
64 - Juan Pablo Montoya 2000 Indianpolis 500
63 - Jacques Villeneuve 1995 Indianpolis 500
62 - Gilles Villeneuve 1976 Trois-Rivieres F Atlantic
61 - Juan Manuel Fangio 1953 Mille Miglia

#42 Chris Bloom

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:01

I presume Nigel Mansell Hungary 1989 is in the list?

Chris :wave:

#43 Gary C

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:10

60 - Stirling Moss 1954 Italian GP
59 - Nicola Larini 1993 DTM Nurburgring
58 - Stirling Moss 1958 Argentine GP
57 - Johnny Herbert 1991 Le Mans
56 - Andey Green 1998 Land Speed Record runs
55 - Alessandro Zanardi 1998 Long Beach Indycar GP
54 - Graham Hill 1965 Monaco GP
53 - Mario Andretti 1967 Daytona 500
52 - Stirling Moss 1961 German GP
51 - Duncan Hamilton/Tony Rolt 1953 Le Mans
50 - Rick Mears 1991 Indianapolis 500
49 - Tazio Nuvolari 1947 Mille Miglia
48 - Juan Manuel Fangio 1955 Argentine GP
47 - Jackie Stewart 1973 Italian GP
46 - Jim Clark 1965 Indianapolis 500
45 - Bernd Rosemeyer 1935 Eilfelrennen
44 - Jean Alesi 1990 US GP
43 - Damon Hill 1994 Japanese GP
42 - Peter Gethin 1971 Italian GP
41 - John Watson 1983 US GP West

#44 Chris Bloom

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:12

Johnny Herberts 1985 drive at the Formula Ford Festival would also be on my list.

Chris

#45 Gary C

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:16

40 - Hannu Mikkola 1970 World Cup Rally
39 - Henri Toivonen 1980 RAC Rally
38 - Nigel Mansell 1989 Hungarian GP
37 - Emil Levassor 1895 Paris-Bordeaux-Paris
36 - Ari Vatanen 1985 Monte Carlo Rally
35 - Geroges Boillot 1914 French GP
34 - Rudolf Carracciola 1931 Mille Miglia
33 - Fernad Gabriel 1903 Paris-Madrid
32 - Jochen Rindt 1970 Monaco GP
31 - Keke Rosberg 1985 British GP Qualifying
30 - Timo Makinen 1965 Monte Carlo Rally
29 - Pierre Levegh 1952 Le Mans
28 - Gilles Villeneuve 1981 Monaco GP
27 - Stafn Bellof 1984 Monaco GP
26 - Michael Schumacher 1996 Spanish GP
25 - Michael Schumacher 1995 Belgian GP
24 - Mike Hathorn 1953 French GP
23 - Michael Schumacher 1998 Hungarian GP
22 - Dave Coyne 1990 FFord Festival Brands Hatch
21 - Johnny Herbert 1985 FFord Festival Brands Hatch

#46 Gary C

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:19

20 - Aryton Senna 1988 Japanese GP
19 - Colin McRae 1995 RAC Rally
18 - Niki Lauda 1976 Italian GP
17 - Michael Schumacher 1994 French GP
16 - Bernd Rosemeyer 1936 Eifelrennen
15 - Jacky Ickx 1969 Le Mans
14 - Aryton Senna 1984 Monaco GP
13 - Aryton Senna 1985 Portuguese GP
12 - Pedro Rodriguez 1970 BOAC 1000kms Brands Hatch
11 - Rene Arnoux 1979 French GP

#47 Gary C

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:30

10 - Gilles Villeneuve 1979 French GP
9 - Gilles Villeneuve 1981 Spanish GP
8 - Stirling Moss 1961 Monaco GP
7 - Tazio Novolari 1935 German GP
6 - Jim Clark 1967 Italian GP
5 - Nigel Mansell 1987 British GP
4 - Jackie Stewart 1968 German GP
3 - Ayrton Senna 1993 European GP, Donington Park
2 - Stirling Moss 1955 Mille Miglia
1 - Juan Manuel Fangio 1957 Geman GP

This is my Christmas presnet to you all - have a good one!

AND NO RONNIE !!!!

#48 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:33

Hakkinen at Spa 2000 is soooooooo overrated. Anyone who's been to racing school can do a slipstreaming pass, even with multiple cars involved.


DC's pass on Michael Schumacher at Brazil this year, using Tarso Marques as a pick was much more impressive. And this happened in a corner, not down a straight.

Sorry to get off on a mood, but Spa 2000 is nothing special in my book, I think it was raved about because of the lack of competitive passing in F1. A starving man would think an apple is a delicacy

#49 Chico Landi

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 20:42

Thanks Gary!!! :up:

I know this lists will never please everyone. Personally, I rate very highly Mas Wilson's performance at the Interlagos round of the deceased FIA ITC, back in 1996. Alongside with the usual names such as Schneider, Reuter, Naninni, Franchitti, Lehto, Fisichella, Ludwig, Stuck, Larini, Modena, Dalmas, Wurz and others, three brazilian drivers were invited: Max, Christian Fittipaldi and Tony Kanaan.

Under a rainstorm, the then unknown little brazilian came from the pre-last row to the lead in just three laps, racing with an outdated Alfa Romeo. He built a huge gap, but then the track started to dry. Even though, he kept the lead until the last laps, just then being overtooked by Larini in a works (brand new) Alfa. It was amazing!

#50 scheivlak

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 21:43

Thanksalot Gary :up: :up:

You know what? I think it isn't such a bad list after all! Top-10 are indeed mostly top-10, though I find Gilles' Jarama win slightly overrated (not better than Boutsen doing the same trick versus Senna, Prost, Berger and Piquet at the Hungaroring 1990).

To me, the only real things missing: Some Gurney, and Jacky Ickx' fantastic drive in a F2 Matra, German GP 1967. On that occasion, young Jacky was effectively 3rd fastest in practice, faster than Stewart, Brabham, Gurney, Rindt etc. in full 3.0L F1 cars :eek: - and more than 25sec faster than the next F2.
Though the F2 had to start behind al the f1 cars (thus in fact starting from 18th postion), he ploughed through the F1 field and was fighting for 3rd spot with Brabham and Amon when his suspension collapsed in lap 12.