40 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Over a year ago, on this forum, someone nonchalantly mentioned a race in 1927...

It was called the "Australian Grand Prix" but I gathered they knew precious little about it, and they were seemingly keen to let me think that. I set out to learn more and a few months ago got in touch with a man who had some details.

The race was a series of heats and a final run at the Showground at Goulburn in NSW... all of this happening about 14 months prior to the race now acknowledged to be the first Australian Grand Prix.

I put the details into the Historic Racing Newsletter I produced in October, suggesting that the 75th anniversary was coming up and maybe that could be the basis for a quest to have the race accepted as what it truly was in the lineage of AGPs.

The Golden Era Auto Racing Club and its members have now picked up the ball and run with it, the Mayor of Goulburn is behind it, various Vintage Clubs and other Car Clubs are co-operating and it's turning into a pretty big do.

Goulburn, about 120 miles south west of Sydney, will host a parade and other functions on January 15, while the GEAR Club have moved their February date for their regular mid-week thrashes at nearby Wakefield Park forward to January 16 to coincide with it all.

Over fifty entries have been received so far for each event, and that doesn't include vintage cars etc that will take a place in the parade alongside the pre-war racing cars. Bugattis do feature, appropriately enough, as a Bugatti won that first event.

I'm very pleased to see this all happening. A plaque will be unveiled at the Showground commemorating the race and I'm sure Goulburn, now languishing a little for tourist dollars since the construction of the bypass on the Hume Highway, will continue to remind good folk that this little chunk of history took place in their environs.

[Catalina Park]

Ray
I am very pleased that it is happening, are you going to be there?

[Ray Bell]

If I can be, and at the moment I'm planning everything to fit in with it. What about you?

[Catalina Park]

I guess I will cruise down the street in the 1100 (now he knows who I am) and take in the excitement!

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Over a year ago, on this forum, Barry Lake nonchalantly mentioned a race in 1927...

It was called the "Australian Grand Prix" but Barry knew precious little about it. I set out to learn more and a few months ago got in touch with a man who had some details.

Ray

Not wishing to pass details on to a rival freelance writer who phones looking for free information does not signify knowing "precious little". I already am very angry about this entire matter. I am surprised you choose to use The Nostalgia Forum to further inflame the situation.

[Marcor]

Far from Australia (Belgium), I've find a short text, dating from December 1925, saying this:

An autodrome looking like Monthléry is under construction near Sidney. It should be opened in 1926 with a great international race. The name of Parry Thomas is mentioned among the potential drivers.

So many projects were never realised, so what about this one ? It was maybe delayed. And what does it really mean: looking like Monthléry ? With an oval and a road track?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by rdrcr
hmmm... doesn't sound like anybody's delighted.

On the face of it, it sounds like sour grapes. 'course...

There are always two sides to every story... with the truth lying somewhere in between.

Yes, it does sound that way... yet he's never said a word to me along those lines... and I won't up any more Pandora's boxes. As for the 'truth'... there is only ever one truth, and sometimes it's not in between at all... but from one party only... not that this might be the case here. I actually have written what I believed to be true. If someone was keeping anything from me, that was their business.

This I do have though, being e.mailed to me tonight....

Photos from the day, about nine of them, cars on the course and off the course.

Marcor, I would be fairly sure that news item referred to Maroubra Speedway, which has been mentioned many times on this forum. It was completed, went broke under two or three different managments and survived as a racing venue for less than a decade. After that it simply decayed...

another ambitious effort at Werrington near Penrith in the western suburbs of Sydney never was completed, though it's high embankments were visible, apparently, until only ten or fifteen years ago. It was named 'Brooklands.'

[Ray Bell]

The e.mail hasn't yet arrived... still several hours away, I'm told, so here's a couple of rough pics to begin with.

First, the winner, Geof (or Geoff) Meredith in the Type 30 Bugatti:



Then there is Peter White in the Fronty Ford:



More later...

[Ray Bell]

More pics have arrived, I hope everyone likes them... they've been used by the Goulburn Post in their pre-event publicity, all due to the generosity of the man whose grandfather took them.

Rajo Morgan's car... looks neat:



A bunch of the cars... what a motley group! But it was probably the cream of the crop in the country at the time:



To show that the race got the billing in the promotions... check this out:



Peter White again...



So there you are, from out of the depths of time....

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

another ambitious effort at Werrington near Penrith in the western suburbs of Sydney never was completed, though it's high embankments were visible, apparently, until only ten or fifteen years ago. It was named 'Brooklands.'

Ray, In the Penrith library website I found a reference to the Brooklands circuit being used for motorcycle racing for a short time http://www.penrithci...rt/speedway.htm and http://www.penrithci...tor_cycling.htm but I am not sure of the accuracy of this site!

[Ray Bell]

I'm sure that Fast Tracks says no racing took place... so that's interesting.

Will Wayne Adams be there Tuesday morning?

[Ray Bell]

Tuesday came and went... and there were a great many people delighted!

I'll be posting photos of a few cars when I get a chance, but I suspect the world hasn't heard the last of this little race, this huge controversy...

Not everyone wants to recognise it as a true Australian Grand Prix.

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Not everyone wants to recognise it as a true Australian Grand Prix.

Not everyone wants to recognise CAMS !!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Not everyone wants to recognise CAMS!!

True enough... but it wasn't CAMS who decided on the lineage of the race.

Let's consider this... the 1928 race was originally called the "100 Miles Road Race" and was later (who knows when? Old timers still call it by its original name!) recognised as the first AGP.

When the Light Car Club dropped Phillip Island like a hot scone (speeds getting high etc) in 1935, nobody actually took on the title of the AGP, it lay unused. Maybe everyone thought the name belonged to the LCCA, or maybe nobody cared...

Then the Bathurst race came along and it was so named, as was the speedway event in Sydney that same weekend, and the main motorcycle race at Bathurst that weekend.

The name was here to stay, and there was muttering about the race 'belonging to all Australians' and that the race should go from state to state to reflect that. And it was to do so from that time forward.

But somebody then threw in another curved ball by adding to the lineage with the inclusion of the 1936 South Australian Cenenary Grand Prix in the list of Australian Grands Prix. There was a governing body by this time, and it must have been part of their plan to put things on a proper footing.

Today, it rests with CAMS, of course...

Based in Victoria, notoriously pro-Victorian, prone to sticking heads in the sand...

Sounds like there's a wonderful argument brewing... John Medley makes a great case for acceptance, Graham Howard isn't so happy...

The winner, as I see it, will be the people of Goulburn. Another tourist attraction for their city.

[mark f1]

Ray,

Hadn't read this thread previously, until a link to it was recently posted in another thread.

Did the argument over the Goulburn race ever get resolved one way or the other? Has CAMS recognised it as the first AGP?

Mark

[Ray Bell]

Of course not!

They're still ignoring it altogether... after all, they are in Victoria, aren't they?

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Catalina Park


Not everyone wants to recognise CAMS !!

At the moment we have no option, we must have an umpire, and they are it at this moment in time....??????????????????????

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


True enough... but it wasn't CAMS who decided on the lineage of the race.

Let's consider this... the 1928 race was originally called the "100 Miles Road Race" and was later (who knows when? Old timers still call it by its original name!) recognised as the first AGP.

When the Light Car Club dropped Phillip Island like a hot scone (speeds getting high etc) in 1935, nobody actually took on the title of the AGP, it lay unused. Maybe everyone thought the name belonged to the LCCA, or maybe nobody cared...

Then the Bathurst race came along and it was so named, as was the speedway event in Sydney that same weekend, and the main motorcycle race at Bathurst that weekend.

The name was here to stay, and there was muttering about the race 'belonging to all Australians' and that the race should go from state to state to reflect that. And it was to do so from that time forward.

But somebody then threw in another curved ball by adding to the lineage with the inclusion of the 1936 South Australian Cenenary Grand Prix in the list of Australian Grands Prix. There was a governing body by this time, and it must have been part of their plan to put things on a proper footing.

Today, it rests with CAMS, of course...

Based in Victoria, notoriously pro-Victorian, prone to sticking heads in the sand...

Sounds like there's a wonderful argument brewing... John Medley makes a great case for acceptance, Graham Howard isn't so happy...

The winner, as I see it, will be the people of Goulburn. Another tourist attraction for their city.

Ray ,i disagree, i do not belive CAMS are PRO VICTORIAN, representitives of each STATE has a voice, just that some are louder and more forcefull than others.........

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
At the moment we have no option, we must have an umpire, and they are it at this moment in time....?

Not totally... there is also the AASA...

[Paul Hamilton]

On the initiative of the Historic Commission, CAMS' brief description of the history of the AGP on page 14-2 of the current CAMS manual was amended a few years back to acknowledge the existance of events entitled AGP which preceeded the 1928 race at Phillip Island. That Phillip Island race was, I believe, the first of the series of events which have been recognised by the National Sporting Authority as Australia's premier motor sporting event but clearly earlier events used the name and CAMS has acknowledged that.

[Ray Bell]

Come on, Streak...

You can do better than that!

"Earlier events"? Only Goulburn, surely? An absolute standout, so it should be recorded as such. Not stuffed into a bagful of non-existent "earlier events" as has been done.


Seen standing outside the racecourse on the occasion of the
celebrations in 2002, completely unconnected with the
events of the day. Only the question mark is missing!

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Paul Hamilton
On the initiative of the Historic Commission, CAMS' brief description of the history of the AGP on page 14-2 of the current CAMS manual was amended a few years back to acknowledge the existance of events entitled AGP which preceeded the 1928 race at Phillip Island. That Phillip Island race was, I believe, the first of the series of events which have been recognised by the National Sporting Authority as Australia's premier motor sporting event but clearly earlier events used the name and CAMS has acknowledged that.

Never truer words spoken.................................

[275 GTB-4]

80th Anniversary of the First AGP

Sunday, 14th January 2007

Contact Gil Whitehouse on 02 9533 2200 business hours or
Laraine Hoy on 02 9824 6787

Goulburn, display and parade of historic racing cars, demonstration laps at the Showground site of the first AGP took place (1927) and vintage aeroplane fly-past.

[GreenMachine]

So, who is going? Well, there's me, and ...

Any interest in a RV, maybe at the Paragon?

[Terry Walker]

Just asking -

The banner in one of the pics says the venue is the Goulburn racecourse. This map, from 1954, shows the racecourse on the Braidwood Road and the Showgrounds some distance away on the Hume Hwy, which is how I rememebr it from my own Canberra days in the 80s.

Maybe there was just one combined showgrounds/racecourse in 1927?

[Terry Walker]

Just answered my own question by doing what I should have done first. Looked up a current map of Goulburn. Old racecourse site, where the race was held in 27, is now also the showgrounds. The old Hume Hwy showgrounds site is now a park or similar.

Tch.

[Catalina Park]

Yes Terry the Showground was moved after the map was made. The Racecourse has also moved since then.
The Old Showground is now the "Workers Arena" or in other words the Footy Oval. It was once used as a speedway for bikes (skids). Victoria Park also held speedway motorcycles.

[275 GTB-4]

Looks like I will be zooming up the back way.....looking like a bit of a hoot...several car clubs have decided to make it a run.

All morning displays in the main street then at lunchtime out to the old GP track where you can pay to get a whizz around in a period vehicle (Steen Pederson is going to be busy by the sound of it )

[275 GTB-4]

Great day!! learned heaps!!....a nice eclectic display of cars.

Bumped into Morris1100 amongst others

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Bumped into Morris1100 amongst others

Who?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Who?

You know...that fella from Katoomba that drives a Morris 1100

[Catalina Park]

Hey, what a coincidence. He sounds like a nice bloke (or a bit of a bastard)
Katoomba? Isn't that near Catalina?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Hey, what a coincidence. He sounds like a nice bloke (or a bit of a bastard)
Katoomba? Isn't that near Catalina?

I've heard the man is agitated

[Brian Lear]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Yes Terry the Showground was moved after the map was made. The Racecourse has also moved since then.
The Old Showground is now the "Workers Arena" or in other words the Footy Oval. It was once used as a speedway for bikes (skids). Victoria Park also held speedway motorcycles.

Catalina

The reference to Victoria Park in "The Racing Boys" (page 36) refers to the "Riot of Speed" promotion at Victoria Park, Sydney held on Saturday 27th October 1923.

I think it is co-incidence that there is also a Victoria Park in Goulburn. I have found no reference to speedway being held on Victoria Park, Goulburn. - at least in the period under discussion.



Brian Lear

PS. PM me your email address and I will send you a scan of the reports from "The Referee"

[275 GTB-4]

Steen Pederson had one of his Salmsons there with an appropriate racing number.

[Ray Bell]

Now there's a bunch of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

Anyone have a pic of the freshly-built V8 Special from Thicktoria? That's the one fourth in the queue here, with heads down getting a squiz at the engine.

[cosworth bdg]

Isn't jealousy a curse.....

[GreenMachine]

Anyone have a pic of the freshly-built V8 Special from Thicktoria?

When I sort the picture posting thing ... (yes, I have read the sticky)

[Ray Bell]

Here's the pic I took on the trailer out at Wakefield Park...



It sure looks like a piece of work, way too much work for a sidevalve V8, IMO.



Mick, could you get in touch urgently, please? r@ybell.net

[275 GTB-4]

I met a man the other day who knows a man who has a Fronty Ford in his backyard....out of interest, how many Frontys have survived in Australia

[Ray Bell]

There was one right by the Stutz spare engine where I was the other day...

Just next to the Deusenberg head.



There must be a few about. There's a few of those heads Kleinig copied too, not sure what they were called, but I think I was told Kleinig made about eight of them.