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Most unsuitable saloon racing cars


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#1 dmj

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 19:20

Recently I heard that Adrian Hamilton tried to race a Mercedes 600 back in 1970 or 1971! He entered that car, probably in more or less standard specification in a race in Thruxton, with predictable results - tyre problems forced him to retire early (that beast had 3 tons - was it the heaviest racing car ever?) Anyone has a picture?
Also, I would like to know more about cars that looked unsuitable for racing but were raced anyway. Isettas entered for Mille Miglia come to mind first, then Lanfranchi Moskviches that even proved successful because of strange rules... Audi 200 Avant Quattros in rallying, Volvo station wagons in BTCC...
More favorites?

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 20:31

Bob Jane also entered a Grosser Mercedes for the Bathurst endurance event, a 500-miler in those days. But Bob more than once entered a car like this and failed to turn up... I believe he had the car at the time, however.

This race has been one to turn out a lot of cars that weren't really all that suitable... Vauxhall Vivas, would you believe, swamped the little-car class in 1963 and beat everything home!

To see a Valiant V8 on the mountain on standard wheels and tyres... Ugly!

#3 Mobetta

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 20:36

Didn't someone rally a Rolls-Royce?This would have been in the late 1960s-early 1970s time frame when there was a fad of transcontinental rallies like the London to Sydney and the World Cup rallies.I can't recall the specific events the Rolls competed in or the name of the driver.I do remember that they had a hell of a time with the semi-trailing rear suspension links breaking due to cornering stress!

#4 Frank de Jong

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 20:38

A Polonez with Leyland 1.4 engine (late 80's - begin 90's in the Netherlands group N championship).
There was this famous racing Mini stationcar in Britain.
A Rolls-Royce taking part in Paris-Dakar (early 80's)
In the ETC, sometimes roadcars took part (perhaps after receiving some Deutschmarks) just to fill the class otherwise there wouldn't have been points for the winner. I know of a Ford Taunus 20M TS which "competed" this way.
Volvo's 240 turbo was an unlikely racecar at first as well. In the German DTM championship, a 4-door version was raced. Someone took the liberty to add a "taxi" sign on the roof... When Volvo was winning, the laughing stopped.
The rallying Audi was a Quattro sedan, incidentally.
The Spa 24h once had a Peugeot 806 (IIRC) racing.
The Nürburgring 24 hour has a liberal format, so cars racing on LPG or even diesel can compete, as well as some stationcars and an Opel Zafira group A.

#5 Vitesse2

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 20:42

I've always found it rather difficult to believe that Jack Sears won the first British Saloon Car Championship in an Austin A105 Westminster ... :eek:

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 20:47

Originally posted by Mobetta
Didn't someone rally a Rolls-Royce?This would have been in the late 1960s-early 1970s time frame when there was a fad of transcontinental rallies like the London to Sydney and the World Cup rallies.I can't recall the specific events the Rolls competed in or the name of the driver.I do remember that they had a hell of a time with the semi-trailing rear suspension links breaking due to cornering stress!


I think you're right, though I can't find an entry list. Moreover, Mrs Brown entered a 1927 Rolls in most (if not all) of the round Australia 'trials' of the fifties and sixties...

As for the Westminster, the only thing against it was weight, provided he had the big bore engine... and even then the weight would have been on a par with that of the Jaguars he was up against. Or less.

#7 Frank de Jong

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 20:50

We want more!
The little Skoda 110's and 130's coupé, unlikely cars but succesfull nontheless
The 1977 AMG Mercedes 450 SLC, with its 3-speed automatic gearbox.
Fiat 2300 S coupé, 1963
Lancia Flaminia

#8 david_martin

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 21:01

I always thought the Volvo 850 estate that ran in the BTCC in the first half of the 90's was amusing. Those two Cadillac sedan de Villes than were entered at Le Mans in 1950 must rank up there somewhere too :)

#9 Michael Müller

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 21:45

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
The 1977 AMG Mercedes 450 SLC, with its 3-speed automatic gearbox.

It was no AMG car, but a works project, in fact not the 4.5 ltr, but a 450 SLC 5.0.
Unsuitable??
1st, 2nd & 4th 1978 Vuelta a la Americana Sud (30.000 km!)
2nd 1979 East African Safari
1st to 4th (!) 1979 Bandama Rallye Ivory Coast
3rd 1980 East African Safari
2nd Rally 1980 Codasur Arghentina
1st & 2nd 1980 Bandama Rallye Ivory Coast

#10 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 21:46

They raced Citroën 2C V's in Denmark in the late 60's. :lol:

Stefan

#11 McRonalds

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 21:51

Some years ago in Germany we used to laught about the giant Audi quattro V8 when it came into the German touringcar championship - but no one laughed when that car at least won 2 championships with Hans Stuck jr. and Frank Biela...

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...but that Rolls Royce of course is my favourite (as Frank already mentioned)...

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:p

#12 bobbo

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 21:51

A fellow named Jim Clark drove a Ford (US) Galaxie with a 7 litre engine at Crystal Palace around 1964 or so :eek: :eek: :eek: ! Apparently he didn't do too poorly, IIRC!

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#13 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 21:56

The Rolls-Royce was a Silver Shadow entered in the 1970 World Cup Rally by Ray Richards. One of the co-drivers was Bill Bengry. (Car no. 52)

Also on that rally (car no. 13) was a Series 1 Silver Cloud

The Shadow made it to Mexico, but not as a finisher, as it was excluded on time somewhere in south America, , but it continued to Mexico as a sort of mobile support car for any competitor that needed it, especially in the Andes.

The Silver Cloud retired in Brazil after the crew apparently spent 23 hours searching for a lost wheel nut!!

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:12

Originally posted by bobbo
A fellow named Jim Clark drove a Ford (US) Galaxie with a 7 litre engine at Crystal Palace around 1964 or so :eek: :eek: :eek: ! Apparently he didn't do too poorly, IIRC!

Bobbo


There were a few Galaxies in British racing at that time, Brian Muir ended the life of one (Willment's) and the aforementioned Jack Sears also drove one.... Dan Gurney started them on that trend when he took a 1962 Impala 2-door to England and led the Jags a merry chase.. that very car being brought to Australia later by Laurie O'Neil and becoming the tow car for Greg Cusack and his team.

Another was the car of Gawaine Baillie, who brought his car out here for the Sandown endurance race and let Lex Davison put the car perilously close to dropping into the dam. It also raced at Warwick Farm and Longford. A local Galaxie was also driven by Davison and Norm Beechey, and Beechey beat the Jane Jag once with another Impala.

So the big sedans weren't so out of place in the sixties at all.. they were competitive with the other stuff of the day, only being eclipsed when the Mustangs came out...

If you want really wierd... how about the Chrysler entries in the Spa 24-hours events of the fifties... side valve sixes in big sedans, Chrysler looking at attracting buyers among the Swiss populace apparently (where did I read about this? Paul Frere's book, I think)...

#15 Frank de Jong

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:21

Originally posted by Michael Müller

It was no AMG car, but a works project, in fact not the 4.5 ltr, but a 450 SLC 5.0.


Michael, I meant the AMG Mampe touring car for the ETC. That didn't have the 5-litre engine, it wasn't homologated at the start and the car received very little development after that.
It wasn't bad either, even racing in 1980 occasionally. But an unlikely racing car anyway.

#16 Criceto

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:38

Bill Bengry's Silver Shadow in the 1970 World Cup Rally is strange enough - but even stranger, I would suggest, was Keith Schellenberg's entry in the 1974 World Cup event.

A 1930 Bentley 8-litre Tourer.

Like Bengry's Royce, it made the course, albeit excluded for being out of time. But in an event where there were only 6 finishers out of close to 100 entrants, I'd say that was pretty good going.

If I recall correctly, one of the biggest holdups encountered was having to wait for a crew member who had gone back to England to pick up more wire wheel spokes, because they kept shaking loose over the stage miles.

#17 McRonalds

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:42

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Also on that rally (car no. 13) was a Series 1 Silver Cloud


What a monster...

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#18 Kaha

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:43

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
We want more!
The little Skoda 110's and 130's coupé, unlikely cars but succesfull nontheless
The 1977 AMG Mercedes 450 SLC, with its 3-speed automatic gearbox.
Fiat 2300 S coupé, 1963
Lancia Flaminia


What is it that makes the Lancia Flaminia a unsuitable as a salon race car?

The nessesary technology was there: Alloy V6 (homologated for three dual Webers), transaxle, deDion rear suspension, disc brakes on all wheels (in the late '50s to early '60s), 50-50 weight distribution, etc.
Surely it was a bit heavy straight from the production line, but that could be fixed (Zagato even built one or two tubular chassied Flaminias).

The main reason why the Flaminia was not a great success on the race track was that Lancia did not have a offical race department in the days of the Flaminia, it was built after Lancia had stoped raceing in the mid '50s and before HF Scuadra Corse had become a more organised racing dapartment for Lancia.

Despite the lack of official support, the Flaminia did manage to score som class wins f x Brands Hatch 6 hours and Targa Florio.

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2002 - 22:50

Originally posted by Criceto
Bill Bengry's Silver Shadow in the 1970 World Cup Rally is strange enough - but even stranger, I would suggest, was Keith Schellenberg's entry in the 1974 World Cup event.

A 1930 Bentley 8-litre Tourer.

Like Bengry's Royce, it made the course, albeit excluded for being out of time. But in an event where there were only 6 finishers out of close to 100 entrants, I'd say that was pretty good going.

If I recall correctly, one of the biggest holdups encountered was having to wait for a crew member who had gone back to England to pick up more wire wheel spokes, because they kept shaking loose over the stage miles.


Schellenberg ran that car in a number of marathons, I'm sure, including the London-Sydney. Must have got used to carrying spare spokes...

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#20 Joe in LA

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 00:22

A British hairdresser entered and completed (a special version of the Baja 1000 for y2k) in a Citreon 2cv. The driver had absolutely no business in the event, and the car even less, but he managed to get through it.

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 01:13

Originally posted by Joe in LA
A British hairdresser entered and completed (a special version of the Baja 1000 for y2k) in a Citreon 2cv. The driver had absolutely no business in the event, and the car even less, but he managed to get through it.


Both cylinders beating furiously...

Is that as bad as this thing (or three of its brothers...) that competed in the 1964 Ampol Round Australia Trial... entered by the manufacturer, who really should have stuck to making washing machines!

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This one had two cylinders too, I think, made by Villiers (you know, lawnmowers, pumps, etc) and bored right out to 354cc!

#22 oldtimer

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 05:13

My word guys, that's a pretty sophisticated bunch of cars compared to the Austin 35s we used to see back in good old England in the '50s. :)

Maybe Roger can post a picture from an old Motor Sport - there has to be one somewhere.

#23 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 12:16

Among the FIA Group 1 homologations (5000 series-built) for 1972, I've found such wonderful racers as the Trabant, Humber Sceptre, Vauxhall Cresta and from "Diahatsu"[sic] something called a Fellow Max L38, which weighed in at a magnificent 356cc.

And in group 2 (1000 series-built), it would have been possible to race an Austin Mini Countryman - that's the estate version, complete with wooden trim! I wonder if anyone ever thought seriously about running an Otosan Anadol ... (I always thought that sounded more like a painkiller than a car!)

#24 Darren Galpin

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 12:35

I always liked the Trabant which was entered on the RAC Rally a few years ago. It finished - last! It then failed to finish the Safari Rally the following year. 10/10 for ambition.

#25 racer69

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 12:38

Sometimes cars which seem unsuitable seem to be quite successful. The Volvo 240T, which had the aerodynamics of a brick, but brutally powerful, was quite successful, winning the 85 ETC, 86 ATCC and even some '87 ETC rounds.

The Volvo 850 sedan seemed big and not suited to Super Touring rules, yet managed to win many races.

How about the Jaguar XJ12C that British Leyland ran in the ETCC in 1976 & 77. Very powerful, but didn't handle, even in the hands of quality steerers like Andy Rouse and Tim Schenken.

#26 Steve Williams

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 12:49

Ray Bell or another one of our esteemed Aussie journos may have more knowledge on this - but as a kid of about 11 or so I remember seeing an article in either Wheels or Sports Car World about a 6.3 or 6.9 Mercedes being raced somewhere in Scandinavia - Finland from memory. I remember it had huge body roll, all sorts of wonderful wheel angles, and a sponsorship sign on the corner behind it which said something like YHDSPANKKI or some such act.

Be warned, this is a very vague recollection!

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 13:20

I didn't always see those mags, Steve... don't recall that at all.

But I now remember another oddball tourer, a picture sent to me by somebody who wanted it posted on the ten-tenths forum thread about Brno...

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With a 2.5-litre air cooled V8 in the rear, this Tatra might have enough power, and it might have traction, but balance and weight would be against it. Wonder if the Minis are lapping it?

#28 Don Capps

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 16:36

The Carrera Panamericana, especially in 1950 and in the stock car class, saw some really "interesting" machines show up. Few recall the Nash of this period (my uncle owned one), but it was not much of what I would call prime racer material -- yet, a Nash beat the Alfa Romeos and Lincolns on the final stage of the 1950 Carrera!

#29 Frank de Jong

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 18:43

Originally posted by Steve Williams
Ray Bell or another one of our esteemed Aussie journos may have more knowledge on this - but as a kid of about 11 or so I remember seeing an article in either Wheels or Sports Car World about a 6.3 or 6.9 Mercedes being raced somewhere in Scandinavia - Finland from memory. I remember it had huge body roll, all sorts of wonderful wheel angles, and a sponsorship sign on the corner behind it which said something like YHDSPANKKI or some such act.

Be warned, this is a very vague recollection!


Perhaps you mean this: http://www.m-100.org...1971/index.html

The site gives some interesting details about the competition life of the 300 SEL 6.3.
Unfortunately, the site mentioned above mixes up some dates.
The works cars practised at Spa 1969 (but didn't race), the AMG car (there might have been two) raced in 1971-1972. There was officially no link between the two, the first AMG was built from a poad accident wreck.

#30 bobbo

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 18:55

r. e. the 1950 Le Mans Caddilacs:

They (fielded by Briggs Cunningham, I believe) both finished . . .

Bobbo

#31 dmj

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 20:08

Ray, thank you for picture of Zeta. I heard that Australian government issued some rules about designing and constructing vehicles to avoid unsafe and badly made vehicles like Zeta... :lol:
Tatra 603 was mildly successful race car - I know they ran in Nurburgring one year and had some good results but I should search for more details.
Trabants achieved a lot of class wins in European champioship rally events, as well as Wartburgs.
And a guy from Slovenia, Jani Trcek, rallied a Renault 4 around ten years ago - with predictable "success".
Frank, Audi indeed ralied both saloon and estate version of 200 - Croatian champion Tihomir filipovic drove one estate in European Championship events.
And, of course, historic events are full of unusual entrants. Paris to Peking race was won by a Jeep! His owner, Phil Surtees often rallies it in other UK historic events as well.
Around the world in 80 days race (surely the longest one ever - there was a thread about it) was won by a Hillman Hunter. An early Citroen 2CV was also in that race.

#32 VDP

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 20:24

The Monte Carlo rally saw a Citroên bus rallying see M Louche book
on the other size an Isetta at the Mille Miglia in 1956


Robert

#33 Kaha

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 00:23

On the subject of racing Taras:
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:love: Top speed over 300 km/h ( I would certainly not dare to travel in a Tatra at that speed ;) )

#34 sat

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 06:12

In 1966 Tatra 603 take place 2 and 3 in 6 Hour race in Brno, in 1967 again 3. In Nürburgring it takes team award in 84H race, but i can't remember year.

#35 William Dale Jr

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 07:21

The Fiat Uno entered in the 1986 James Hardie 1000. Poor little thing was so outclassed by everything else... It managed to finish the race, but having completed 110 laps, it was one lap short of being classified.

#36 dbw

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 07:53

seems they race little pick-um-up trucks round in circles here in the good old us of a....how silly is that??? :p

#37 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 09:54

Originally posted by William Dale Jr
The Fiat Uno entered in the 1986 James Hardie 1000. Poor little thing was so outclassed by everything else... It managed to finish the race, but having completed 110 laps, it was one lap short of being classified.


There's a story about that, I think I may have posted it before...

Gordon Mitchell was the WA Street Car and Sports Sedan Champion racing for the same entrant, Frank Cecchele (sp?), co-driver was Allan McCarthy who was doing reasonably in the ex-Geoghegan Holden Monaro. The car was built by Frank, who prepared both cars for Gordon and had turned the turbocharged Rover engine into a super-reliable jet.

The got the car set up in Perth, dynoed it, then trucked it straight to Bathurst. It has plenty of grunt and handled well, stopped fine... but it had an annoying and debilitating problem in the ignition... it virtually shut down at any time at all... 135mph down the straight, going fine, then shut down... no apparent reason. They did have one problem, a CV joint failed, but other than that everything was rosy except for the electrical problem.

It was such a problem that they had a hard time getting onto the grid at all, not being able to put in a complete lap with power available, and they would naturally get in the way of others out practising because they never knew when it was about to drop its bundle.

At one stage, the all-knowing all-important 19yo Mark Skaife walked past loudly proclaiming that "amateurs like them shouldn't be allowed to enter the race."

Anyway, they tried to race, had the problem throughout, then packed it up and took it to Adelaide, where they had the same problem practising for the GP weekend supports.

Frank then had a brainwave. The only thing that had been changed after it was dynoed was the precautionary change from carbon plug leads to copper leads... he changed them back and the car was a flyer!

It seems the different resistance upset the management system and told it to shut down every so often...

So the car wasn't such a dud, it just had a minor problem that made it look that way.

#38 racer69

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 11:14

I believe that the Fiat Uno still races in Western Australia, i have seen pics in Auto Action.

How about the Audi 5x5 that raced at Bathurst between 1982-1984, or the Maserati BiTurbo, i will never forget the footage of the car wobbling all over the place on the exit of woodcote at silverstone in 1987.

#39 William Dale Jr

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 12:00

Well it's nice to hear that the Uno wasn't so bad after all :)

I was going to mention the Biturbo, but I always believed that had the cars been better built from their bare shells - their roll cages weren't even connected to the suspension mounting points! - the cars could at least have been competitive and handled better. I know Armin Hahne said that they had many problems with the engines, and that had hindered the development of the rest of the car, but still...

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#40 Catalina Park

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 12:34

I remember the Uno at Bathurst it was doing good laps in practice, Out the pit exit onto Mountain straight struggle up the hill to the back gate and drive into the back of the pits into pitlane ready for another flyer! I think it was doing a lap (very short lap) in under 3 min :lol:

#41 Michael Müller

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 14:36

To Frank:
There are some very misty rememberings to the Mampe SLC now as you mention it, however, no details remained. You have more, may be photo?

To Bobbo and Ray:
The Galaxy was in no way unsuitable, even today the “smaller” version, the 5 ltr Ford Falcon, is a “must have” if you want to win in historic touring car racing.

To Steve and Frank:
The 300 SEL 6.8 basically was rather unsuitable, but the brute power of the enlarged V8 compensated air suspension and weight.

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Even in standard street version the 6.3 was a beast, which I remember with awe. Only available with a special automatic gearbox, as no manual MB transmission and no clutch was able to handle the gigantic torque, 0-100 kph at 6.8 sec - without real first gear, because on gearing the first was more a 2nd, and hunting 911’s on the Autobahn, which was special fun with a “250 S” fixed to the boot lid.

The engine was totally understressed, 250 DIN-HP resp. 280 bhp for 6300 cc with manual fuel injection was nothing. Top power was available already at 4000 rpm, and more than 5000 was not possible. Theoretically the M100 engine could be tuned rather easily, as there was plenty of potential, but in practice this was blocked by the injection pump. We had plans to drop the injection and convert it to 4 Weber carbs, which finally failed due to financial reasons. The figures I remember for the factory 6.8 increased constantly, with the Spa version around 425 DIN-HP, although rumours had been around up to 485. The later AMG version was somewhat tamer, lacking the full technical possibilities the factory had.

Anybody remembering the colour of the factory cars? The AMG was blood red, I still remember. One of the cars I saw at a hill climb in Germany in the eearly 70’s was silver. I also remember one which was black-yellow, but don’t remember whether it was genuine or not.

Since I sold my 6.3 end of 70’s I missed it, and I still miss it today. Since 20 years now I’m thinking to buy one again, always with ups and downs, and I’m nearly sure that the day will come where I cannot withhold anymore. And who knows, may be I’m crazy enough to convert it into a blood red AMG replica, with Webers of course, as even after 25 years I’m keen to know whether it works ...!

#42 Frank de Jong

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 16:36

well Michael, how could I resist such an invitation?
Here's the 1969 Spa car, in B/W :( (DNS) :
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The 1971 AMG car:
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Finally, the 1978 AMG 450 SLC:
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The last one may be the ugliest Mercedes ever raced...

#43 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 17:03

Unsuitable?
An Opel Astra Estate on the old Nürburgring...

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#44 Michael Müller

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 17:13

The Spa car seems to be identical with the Macao car, colour is dark (which one??), so neither silver or black-yellow which I remember.
I prefer the AMG version, due to change of regulations now wide wheel arches had been allowed, which looks more brute with the fat tyres.
Btw, Cock Wieman of Amsterdam 2 years ago prepared a 6.3 for cicuit racing in the Yountimer Trophy. However, he claims to be in the beginning of the project only having reached just 350 HP. Also air suspension has been removed in favour of mechanical springs.

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#45 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 17:26

I couldn't resist either...slightly OT but here is a 6.3 on the loose!
The year is 1973, and the event is a continantal rallycross. Maybe one of the racing saloons seen on the above pictures...?

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#46 Frank de Jong

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 21:23

I know one of the AMG's has been sold to Matra Aerospace as a test vehicle; a few figures, for what they're worth (all from contemporary reports):
1968 Macao 300 SEL: 6.3 litres, 296 HP, 1700 kg
1969 Spa 300 SEL: 6.8 litres, 358 HP, 1588 kg
1971 Spa AMG car: 6.8 litres, 398 HP, 1635 kg
1972 AMG car: 6.8 litres, 428 HP (although 480 HP was mentioned as well), 1635 kg
A heavyweight - but one of the most impressive touringcars of its time.

#47 McRonalds

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 22:06

Here's a picture of the 'big white elephant' I found in my archive... :rolleyes:

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#48 Michael Müller

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 23:48

As far I know there was only one AMG 6.8 which in fact has been sold to Matra for testing of aircraft tyres. So it seems the 1972 car was the updated first car.
I also remember the rallye cross car, as far as I remember it was a standard 6.3 only. Sad picture, only the last one is even sader!

#49 McRonalds

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Posted 03 February 2002 - 08:28

If we're talking about unsuitable saloon cars - this story MUST be told. Not because the car was ugly, unsuitable or uncompetitive, but because it was built without reading the rules for what it was built. The French Maserati importeur Thepenier wanted to enter (at least a 2 car team), the 'last' Maserati at LeMans 1974 - but it never came to a start - they never even saw the Sarthe. Finally when the 'Competetion' Bora was ready they realized that it could not be homologated as the annual Bora production was less than 500 - and on top of everything, it's V8 engine was to big! A real UNSUITABLE car.

If they only have read the rules... :mad:

Posted Image

Still the car was told to be a 'muscle man' (around 450 hp), realtively lightweight and, as far as I can see, extremely good looking.

#50 Michael Müller

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Posted 03 February 2002 - 14:07

How about this 6.3 at Le Mans 1970?

Posted Image

The story behind is available at http://uweb.superlin...oint3/rudi.html

Anybody able to confirm this incident really happened?