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Most unsuitable saloon racing cars


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#601 Charlieman

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 21:17

If you rake the windscreen more gently and move the front seats back, a car gets longer and heavier than you might expect. If you increase the thickness of noise baffle on every panel of the car, it gets heavier. And make the carpet a bit plusher too, please. If you fit fancy front seats, a car gets heavier. All of the windows need to be motor powered, and even when one person with no baggage drives the car, it needs central locking. Which is why the battery is as big and heavy as it was twenty years ago; just when the battery gets a smidge more efficient, somebody defines an electrical power sucker to be essential. 

 

At the same time, engineers have worked on weight reduction: aluminium for load bearing items which used to be made from iron or steel, substituting plastic when it will do. If you look at the engine and transmission train on a two wheel drive car, weight saving is obvious. Weight loss is as easy to see as weight gain from a stodgy car interior.

 

Four wheel drive, of course, is a good way to add stodge and profit. I presume that the erudite readers of TNF appreciate that four wheel drive, per se, does not amount to much. It's a tech fix, not the only fix, and it is oft inappropriate.

 

Inclining the windscreen reduces aerodynamic drag, or that is what most people think. It makes some cars look appealing. To make the most difference, the windscreen has to be 15 degrees or less above the horizontal, otherwise separation and turbulence occur. Look at 15 degrees on a bit of paper; did you walk up a slope like that without noticing? Second best is something like a quarter sphere bubble screen, as popularised on French Le Mans cars. You can't see much out of either of those windscreen designs. 

 

Laminar flow over a car is implausible, so we should acknowledge that designs try to manage turbulent flow. Super car designers manage turbulent flow; hatchback designers do the same thing; the big difference is that hatchback designers keep your rear screen clean so that you can see the overtaking super car.



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#602 arttidesco

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 21:41

What are they doing wrong on this modern stuff that are mostly plastic?

 

I suspect a lot of metal is used to build crumple zones, side impact protection and roll over protection the latter would be non existent in a Galaxy I imagine.



#603 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 22:01

I suspect a lot of metal is used to build crumple zones, side impact protection and roll over protection the latter would be non existent in a Galaxy I imagine.

Huge strong intrusion bars in the doors, a very strong body shell without A pillars that cause blind spots, a perimiter chassis that has front crumple zones, a huge steel bumper that spreads the load effectivly. The same basic chassis design actually as the Crown Victoria still for sale in the US. Maybe not quite so efficient in a crash as some modern cars but far better side impact protection, far more crumple area in the front. A crash between a modern 1600 kilo ecobox and the 71 Ford would = one dead eco box.  I work on modern cars and am amazed how puny many things are. front crash protection is generally ok, though they use the ENGINE as a member to spread load instead of the plastic bumpers.

The modern cars ofcourse drive far better, better handling, better steering, better seats, Though braking is as good, a modern 1800 kilo Falcon has only just got brakes actually as big on mainsteam models. The Galaxie had 12" rotors in 71 with a huge clamping force with 11" drums on the rear. And there has never been anything wrong with drums on the rear of any family car. 

So never knock something quite modern and strong for its period.



#604 GMACKIE

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 22:05

1954 VW Beetle weight..........740kg.

 

2014 VW Beetle weight..........1240kg.



#605 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 22:19

Using heavier plastics?

 

Wiring looms are certainly getting heavier, too...

Plastic bumper covers seldom exceed 5k. [Though some cube out @ 120k] Wiring looms actually are  far more comprehensive but generally use thinner wire. And generally are far more efficient.

I really dont know where the weight comes from. Very thin [and strong] steel. Starters and alternators are far lighter, engines are generally lighter though transaxles or transmissions are generally heavier. Glass is thinner. Seats are far lighter and more comfortable. Though not nesecerily stronger. Suspensions should be lighter though I doubt that. An alloy crossmember or wishbone has to use a LOT more material than a pressed steel one. Though are probably more 'rigid' in the end. Even carpet and underfelts are lighter. Even modern batteries are more efficient for their weight. The bodies often have no sound deadener. So where does the weight come from,, A 1700kilo Camry, a 1800 kilo Falcon, a near 1500kilo Corrolla. Even a I30 Hyundia is evidently pushing 1200kilo.



#606 kayemod

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 23:08

All of the windows need to be motor powered...

 

In general you're right with almost all those points of course, but a minor quibble on electric windows. No idea how today's systems compare, and it was so long ago that I can't remember exactly when the change was made, but at Lotus in the 70s we went over to electric side windows in a successful attempt to save both weight and cost, the small motors didn't cost much, and the lifting mechanism needed was lighter, simpler and cheaper than hand winding. Also, customers appreciated the "added luxury" in their Elans and Europas.



#607 David Shaw

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:26

1954 VW Beetle weight..........740kg.

 

2014 VW Beetle weight..........1240kg.

That's what happens when you move the engine to the wrong end.



#608 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 22:30

In general you're right with almost all those points of course, but a minor quibble on electric windows. No idea how today's systems compare, and it was so long ago that I can't remember exactly when the change was made, but at Lotus in the 70s we went over to electric side windows in a successful attempt to save both weight and cost, the small motors didn't cost much, and the lifting mechanism needed was lighter, simpler and cheaper than hand winding. Also, customers appreciated the "added luxury" in their Elans and Europas.

A modern power window reg and motor weighs less than a manual window reg of the 80s. though are generally less reliable too. As I have just invoiced a pair of new regs for a customer! Instead of being gears they are a cable and motor drum. The cables break as do the pullies.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 06 March 2014 - 22:31.