Longest-used racing cars
Posted 18 February 2002 - 21:13
Posted 18 February 2002 - 21:27
Posted 18 February 2002 - 21:56
In 1994 a Vector Formula Ford was designed and due to budget constraints of the factory even up until the 2002 models its the same car, albeit modified over the years. So they improve the suspension then redo the bodywork to fit the new pickup points. Still the same underlying design though.
And these are cases of cars where there is competing mfgs.
Posted 18 February 2002 - 22:53
It ran in the Australian GP for a few years in the Phillip Island days before being crashed by Les Cramp. Cramp, an ex-racing motorcyclist, lost his way down a straight and crashed, rolling after running up an embankment and overturning. He was killed.
Present at the race was Jack Nelson, who bought most of the wreck (the fuel tank was stuck into Jim Gullan's Wolseley for the very long 1936 South Australian Centenary Grand Prix, caused his demise by having so much surge that he lost control and hit a post...) and rebuilt it with a Chev 4 chassis and .... after blowing up the 2-litre engine .... Ford V8 engine.
It raced on in the hands of Jack and a few others, getting other engines as time passed by, including a Chrysler 6 and a GMC 6 (which was in it when he ran in the 1957 AGP, I think) before a Corvette engine was fitted.
At this time, with really ugly bodywork fitted, it was owned by Mick Geneve, an ex-racing motorcyclist. In a support race for the 1958 Caversham 6-hour race the car developed some kind of whip in the chassis down the long straight (an airstrip), got out of control and rolled. Geneve was killed.
Maybe not what you're looking for, but a long-lived racing car nonetheless.
Posted 18 February 2002 - 23:05
IIRC the Ferrari 333SP debuted in 1994. Similarly long-live sports prototypes include the Porsche WSC, which was based on the last Jaguar design, which in turn became a Mazda before Porsche converted it (TWR being the connection here) to race in the Daytona 24 hours in 1995 (?). However they pulled out because of air restricter rules and the car was mothballed for a year before competing and winning at Le Mans two years running for the Joest team. It was revised for 1999 before finally retiring. Of course, it could still make another reappearance...
Posted 19 February 2002 - 00:57
Posted 19 February 2002 - 00:59
Posted 19 February 2002 - 02:27
Originally posted by troyf1
Would the Porsche 956/962 fit in that category?? If so that model was used for YEARS in WSC.
How long did D-Type Jags run at Le Mans?
I know of one car that held an outright circuit record when its chassis was forty years old...
Posted 19 February 2002 - 03:39
And of course there's Pete Lovely's two owner Lotus 49 R2, er, R5, er, R11!
Posted 19 February 2002 - 04:45
As far as a purpose built racing car, surely the Indy cars (roadsters) ran from the big oval to the dirt tracks for 20+ years... or did they just look like them?
Posted 19 February 2002 - 05:27
Posted 19 February 2002 - 06:38
Forgive me here, but even though the "roadsters" reign ended in 63 or 65 didn't the cars still see active duty on other tracks? The mile dirt ovals, the short track circuits and the like. If this were true, wouldn't this extend the life or the usefulness of those cars by some years?
Or, did they just park them and build specific cars for that purpose?
Posted 19 February 2002 - 08:33
This must be the only example of a pre-World War 1 car entering a contemporary event post-World War 2. (There were drivers who entered events pre-WW1 and post-WW2...I can think of the Hon Francis Samuelson...)
More seriously, the GP Delage from the mid-1920s was entered in top line Voiturette racing in the 30s and usde by Tony Rolt with an ERA engine and some success in the early 1950s
Posted 19 February 2002 - 08:49
That mean that this particular car raced in the same series in range of 28 years! I don't know about any similar example.
As for most used chassis in sportscar racing I may write here a top part of my statistics. Far most used car was Joest's Porsche 908/03-008, the car that is shown in the "Joest or Jost" thread.
1. Porsche 908/3-008 - 115 starts
2. Porsche 935 #930 890 0014 - 79 starts
3. Porsche 935 #009 00030 - 73 starts
4. McLaren M8F-72-02 (Hoffmann) - 69 starts (Interserie 2-heat races counted as one start and vintage races not included)
5. these are most active cars still seen on the tracks in 2001 (both 67 starts)
Porsche 911 GT2 #WPOZZZZ99ZTS394065 (Konrad's, later Proton Competition car)
Ferrari 333SP-003 (currently raced by Lavaggi with Judd engine, I would wish it still continue racing)
7. Follows 'best' of Porsche 956/962 clone cars:
Porsche 956-104 - 64 starts
There is of course many unidentified cars, especially some GTs and tubeframed cars that could have more starts but is there anybody on earth who would know it?
Example of best tubeframed car is
8. Porsche RSR #JLE 001 (counted IMSA/ALMS type races, could have been used much more in club racing, I don't know) - 63 starts
and best of Riley & Scotts Mk III (chassis 002 Dyson) - 63 starts
Posted 19 February 2002 - 09:27
Posted 19 February 2002 - 12:34
The Porsche 956/962/Dauer 962 LM certainly must be high on the list. The 956 and 962 raced from 1982 to 1993 at Le Mans, even after the factory gave it up in 1988 (though the 89 Joest effort was certainly an unoffical effort). Granted, the car was revised quite a bit from different people, like the carbon fiber, closed wheel, Richard Loyd 962 or the incredible Dyson 962 a few years later. Then of course, the Dauer Porsche "GT" racer won at Le Mans in 1994, albeit with a flat bottom and added weight. Of course, this "Dauer" car was just the factories latest evolution of the great car.
The Lotus 72 of course ranks up there, from 1970 - 75.
The Jaguar TWR XJR 14 won the WSC in 1991 with Ford power, then was repainted and repowered with a Judd and labeled a Mazda in 1992, then Porsche put some money into the project in 1995 but cutting the top off, giving a GT1 style rear wing, and other modifactions to the inside. Porsche dumped the project after rule changes and the cars were rented to Joest, who won Le Mans in 1996 and 1997 in the face of the factory GT1s. Porsche took over control of the machines in 1998 and the Joest team ran two open top factory efforts of the car, though it now beared very little resembalance to the old Jaguar from so long before. Oddly, the Joest team were nowhere in 1998 at Le Mans and the factory quit after the GT1 finally got a win under its belt.
Of course, there is the mysterious Porsche LMP car that tested for Le Mans 2000 which, according to people I have talked with, bears a resembalance to the Joest cars from 1998. Wolleck and McNish drove it, and I think Wolleck said he thought it was good enough to win. The cars were pulled after the SUV thing came about, and is proabably setting somewhere in Germany. Rumors have it that Porsche are developing a V10 engine to put in an open top car, though this is proabably 3-5 years away. Could we see a return of the old TWR tub? Who knows?
I think thats my favorite race car. Imagine that, a car built for Jag being my favorite.
Posted 19 February 2002 - 13:46
Posted 19 February 2002 - 15:31
About 1936, wasn't it built, by Tom Sulman?
Ronnie Reid was racing that at Oran Park in the early seventies, but it became an 'historics only' car in 1975 or so.
And it never held any outright lap records when its chassis was forty years old...
No, sir, that was a very special car.
Posted 19 February 2002 - 16:27
Regarding the end of the roadsters. With Clark's 65 Indy win, no one competitive wanted to be in a roadster any more. One of the neat things about Indy at one time is that it was paved, while the remainder of the Championship Trail was dirt. Roadsters were among the first to be designed specifically for Indy, not for dirt. The last dirt car to win Indy was Troy Ruttman's in 1952. Guys did qualify roadsters for quite a while after 65, but the force was now with the rear-engine funny cars.
Posted 19 February 2002 - 18:37
In 1987, Kroll used it in the CAT series, the unofficial successor to Can-Am. By the end of this Kroll had run it in at least 65 races. Add to that 3 races with Theodore and three seasons with Belso (so say about 50 races with him) you get a grand total of roughly 118 races - all but five being International Championship events. And no historic racing.
As that is so close to Martin's nomination of Porsche 908/3-008 with its 115 starts, I'll go home and count up Belso's starts.
Kroll also had a 1972 Lola T300 that was still in use in 1987, but I don't think that had many starts after 1978. His third car was a 1975 Lola T400 that won a race as late as 1986.
Posted 19 February 2002 - 21:08
In total, Lola T330 HU2 competed in 107 races: 38 with Tom Belso, 2 with Alan Jones, 1 with Bruce Allison, 60 with Horst Kroll and 6 with Howard Kelly. It only won three races in its long career: with Alan Jones at Brands Hatch 19 Apr 1976 and with Horst Kroll at Mosport 2 Jun 1985 and at Mosport 1 Jun 1986. It won the Can-Am Championship in 1986, the final year it was held and HU2's 14th competitive season.
Of those races, 44 were in F5000, so it must be close to being the most-used F5000 car. It then managed 63 of the 81 Single-Seat Can-Am races.
Can any single-seater top that?
Posted 19 February 2002 - 21:43
Not that I'm all that sure which car it was... Niel had two, but I think it was the green car, which almost won the 1971 Tasman. Alan Hamilton bought it, ran through the rest of the year, then sold it to Pat Burke for Warwick.
It was replaced by a T300, but that lasted about six laps before it destroyed Warwick's legs, then he came back in the M10B...
Where did it go after that... I'm sure it continued running for a long time? Not in years, perhaps, but race starts...
Posted 19 February 2002 - 21:49
Originally posted by Allen Brown
Can any single-seater top that?
I assume one-make championships dont count?
I think cars like the TWR/Porsche/Jag/333sp are impressive given how often they roll out new cars in modern racing
Posted 19 February 2002 - 22:04
Originally posted by Ray Bell
The Niel Allen/Warwick Brown M10B... that would have to be close.
Where did it go after that... I'm sure it continued running for a long time? Not in years, perhaps, but race starts...
That means I must be mixing up two cars. I thought Allen's main car went to Allan Hamilton and then to Kevin Bartlett while Allen's spare car went to Pat Burke. I don't know what happened to Bartlett's car after he got his T300 and I don't know what happened to the Burke/Brown car after the 1973 Gold Star series.
Did Gil Cameron have one of them later?
Posted 19 February 2002 - 23:00
Niel Allen's cars went to Allan Hamilton and Kevin Bartlett, and I guess I'm not sure which either. Hamilton ran his car in red, Bartlett repainted his yellow... I think Allen had one in red, so that must have been the Hamilton car, though there was a blue car and a green car at one time, I'm fairly sure.
I remember in the pits at Warwick Farm first time out, Bartlett and Hamilton talking about how much the cars had cost them since ... and they were expressing the thought that the bills were large. Hence I can verify that the cars went in those directions immediately they were put on sale by Allen.
I can also specifically recall that Hamilton's went to Brown...
Posted 19 February 2002 - 23:12
Posted 19 February 2002 - 23:23
Great place, too great to have gone the way it did. It was properly run, it was fantastic in the way it balanced the need for power and handling.
Posted 20 February 2002 - 04:08
As far as longevity goes, there is probably a USAC midget or sprint car out there that has competed in a lot of races.
Posted 20 February 2002 - 04:18
Warwick Farm was a truly great little circuit I've cycled it but it was closed before I had the chance to drive it. I am involved in the project to make it for Grand Prix Legends and it is coming along slowly but surely. I guess I got to drive it after all
I'm making a trip to a few circuits next month in particular Longford. I may drop into the Farm and post some pictures of the sad remains which I will definately do for Longford. I've got a brand spanking new digital camera which allows me to take 100's of pictures at a time! Hog Heaven
Posted 20 February 2002 - 05:28
The Lotus 39 (1966) was raced through to about 1978 or so, but it was a rare thing. And an also-ran...
You simply can't include Historic Racing in this.
Posted 20 February 2002 - 05:40
Posted 20 February 2002 - 06:06
Posted 20 February 2002 - 06:13
The Indy "roadsters" were called that because someone (or many people) thought they bore a resemblence to cars that were raced in California at the time and were called "track roadsters". These were usually based on 1930s Fords and had the high, downward curving back of those cars. The Indy roadsters also had a high, wide back compared to the "dirt cars" formerly seen at Indianapolis. Some say Bill Vukovich originally called his Kurtis a roadster, but others say the term evolved from several sources. Everyone seems to agree that it had to do with the styling of the rear of the early Kurtis KK500.
Posted 20 February 2002 - 07:16
Originally posted by cabianca
I would say winningest engine in history is the lowly Chevrolet pushrod V-8. It competed in so many different forms of racing.
I was going to post the same thing.
Plenty of speedway wins, F5000, touring cars, sports cars, production sports cars, even some racing cars from the front engined era... the Maybach and Tornado both won with Chev engines in Australia, there were old Ferraris and Maseratis in South America so equipped for instance
Posted 21 February 2002 - 23:05
Both in absolut numbers of World champoinships: 13, and for the fact that it was successfully used in so many types of racing. 11 WCs in rally, 2 WCs in Sportscar racing, and also used a lot in formula racing (altough in lower formulas)
Posted 21 February 2002 - 23:18
Posted 22 February 2002 - 19:35
Posted 22 February 2002 - 23:01
Posted 23 February 2002 - 06:18
Excluding vintage and historic competition, lots of cars competing in British events into the 1950s fell under the accepted UK definition of "vintage", ie, built before 1 January 1931, and many Vauxhall 30/98s, Bentleys and Frazers Nash would have had more or less continuous racing histories from the 1920s to the 1950s (apart from the war years), before being pensioned off into old-car categories.
One of the leading contenders for the title of longest-running car in New Zealand would have to be a 1923 Marlborough-Thomas which I last saw in action in 1963, albeit in much modified form and with Ford V8 engine.
Posted 20 July 2009 - 03:54
Posted 20 July 2009 - 04:07
Edited by Graham Clayton, 20 July 2009 - 04:09.
Posted 20 July 2009 - 04:56
The Ricciardelo Alfa has been 2 seperate cars. The first one I believe is still in Perth. The current K+A built one has been around since the mid 90s though, abliet with some heavy updates.
I have just remembered a car that has had nearly 30 years of racing in Australia. It is the Alfa-Romeo Alfetta GTV-Chevrolet sports sedan/TranzAm car that has been driven by Tony Edmonson, Brian Smith and Tony Ricciardello. The car won the Australian Sports Sedan Championship with Edmondson driving back in 1980, and was still competitive in 2009, with Ricciardello leading the championship, after winning the championship in 2007 and finishing 2nd in 2008.
The Brabham twin midget is still around and being used occasionally in classic speedway events.There is a lot of cars in classic speedway that have been around for a very long time.While most have have been rebuilt from very basic bits and pices some have survived largely intact. My ex Garry Williams Supermod was rescued as a complete rolling chassis as last racedin about 82.It was originally restored to its original 1968 owner and I have updated it to how it raced in the mid 70s in its most succesful period.The classic example though is the ex Snowy White modified sprintcar. When Snowy sold it it was complete,as last raced in 82. Snowy reckoned that if you put some fresh fuel in and give it a push it would go. And it probably would have, when I rebuilt the engine it was still serviceable though tired. But all the major components were reused except the cam.
There is another thread on here similar to this which mentions Jim Doigs Motorlab Asp sports racing car which has been racing from the early 70s and still racing now.1 owner, 1 sponsor all that time. Probably a record.
Posted 20 July 2009 - 14:03
Posted 20 July 2009 - 16:12
Posted 20 July 2009 - 20:32
What is the longest a single car has competed for: ie how many seasons or races has a single model competed in?
In its original form?
I would suggest the 1939 Ford.
Posted 06 September 2009 - 03:38
In 1987 Ian Jones moved from Melbourne to Perth, bringing his Daveric Mk 6 Formula Vee with him. It's still going strong today, still in the front ranks of the F Vee 1200 cc class. It's never stopped being raced. How long Ian had it before he came West I do not know. If we had historic Vees here, which we don't, it would no doubt be eligible for the Historic class, but the current owner is having too much fun in the mainstream to be interested in historics.
Dad (Ian Jones), Dave and Eric built the car from scratch and I believe started racing it in 1984 or 85...I was pretty young then but have vivid memories of looooong evenings spent in the garage! I was so surprised to find this post! I live in America now and got a little nostalgic when I realized it was Father's Day in Aus today. I hope you get this message! Hope you are well.
Posted 07 September 2009 - 13:24
Was built in 1971.