51 replies to this topic

[Jac Man]

I know Mario Andretti won the Daytona 500. This was BEFORE he competed in F1 though.

I know Jim Clark competed in USAC Indy and Sprint Car racing.

In recent times, Emmo, Zanardi, Magnussen and Katayama in CART. David Hobbs tried Indy Car and NASCAR.

This is strictly a curiousity to me, but who and how many others were there?

[MrAerodynamicist]

Only today, I noticed on Forix that Clark has done NASCAR - and of course the story was buried somewhere in depths of the NF....

http://www.atlasf1.c...ht=Clark NASCAR

[bkalb]

A whole raft of F1 drivers drove at Indy. Alberto Ascari in '52 (or perhaps '53) was the only driver to cross the Atlantic from Europe to America while the Indy 500 was part of the world championship. Jack Brabham drove at Indy in '59 or '60, then Jim Clark and Dan Gurney started the F1 invasion that changed Indy cars forever. Graham Hill drove the race. Eddie Cheever did, too, but I believe only after he had retired from F1. Emmerson Fittipaldi and Nigel Mansel both excelled at Indy-car racing after leaving F1. And there are many others who went from F1 to Indycars, like Roberto Moreno, Christian Fittipaldi, etc.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Jac Man
I know Mario Andretti won the Daytona 500. This was BEFORE he competed in F1 though.

I know Jim Clark competed in USAC Indy and Sprint Car racing.

In recent times, Emmo, Zanardi, Magnussen and Katayama in CART. David Hobbs tried Indy Car and NASCAR.

This is strictly a curiousity to me, but who and how many others were there?

In CART and USAC, many!...

NASCAR, off the top of my head, Jim Clark, Vic Elford, Innes Ireland, Rolf Stommelen, David Hobbs, Lella Lombardi.

Ludovico Scarfiotti practiced a NASCAR Plymouth, but did not race.

I'm not aware of Clark actually racing a Sprint Car, but he was photographed around (and I believe sitting in) a car while attending a race.


Jim Thurman

[Kaiser]

Dan Gurney raced in a few NASCAR races, winning at least one IIRC

[Megatron]

Gurney won five NASCAR races, all of them at Riverside.

[Rob Ryder]

Michele Alboreto did 5 IRL races in 1996... finishing in the top 10 on 4 occasions IIRC

[ensign14]

The first non-American driver in the Daytona 500 was, bizarrely, Brian Naylor (of JBW fame), who took part (IIRC) in 1962.

Jackie Oliver got a 4th place in NASCAR in the 1970s.

I think Jochen Rindt also had a NASCAR race - certainly a qualification attempt.

And in 1958 Peter Collins drove a Ferrari sports car in a Champcar qualifying in a mystifying entry.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


In CART and USAC, many!...

NASCAR, off the top of my head, Jim Clark, Vic Elford, Innes Ireland, Rolf Stommelen, David Hobbs, Lella Lombardi.

Ludovico Scarfiotti practiced a NASCAR Plymouth, but did not race.

Just realized I left out Jackie Oliver and Pedro Rodriguez


Jim Thurman

[FEV]

Not F1 drivers, but Claude Ballot-Léna, Christien Becker, Marie-Claude Beaumont, all raced in NASCAR in the late 70s. CBL was a regular compeitor in 1978-79 with some decent results and also a big crash at Atlanta '79. On the F1 side, along with Andretti and Gurney lets add Mark Donohue and the Penske AMC Matador. George Follmer too.
If we include IROC to the lot we can also add Graham Hill, Hulme, Stewart, Ickx, Redman, Fittipaldi, Peterson, Revson, Depailler, Hunt, Lauda, Mass, Nilsson, Jody Scheckter, Rosberg, Alan Jones, Cheever, Sullivan, Brundle, Guerrero and Zanardi.

[McRonalds]

Originally posted by Jac Man
I know Jim Clark competed in USAC Indy and Sprint Car racing.

Did anyone know when and where Jim Clark drove Sprint Cars?

[Locai]

A couple that I know of that are well known:

Michael Andretti drove in F1 and has driven in CART and Indy.

Tora Takagi drove in F1 and CART.

Eddie Cheever drove F1 and IRL.

Bobby Rahal drove F1, CART, and Indy.

JV and JPM both have CART and Indy 500 championships.

I think that Kevin Cogan drove in F1 at some point and drove in Indy. His big claim to fame was starting on the front row (maybe Pole) at Indy as a rookie and then proceeding to make a hard right turn coming out of Turn 4 as they were about to take the Green Flag.


I have a feeling that the list is huge.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Mansell.

[fines]

Originally posted by ensign14
And in 1958 Peter Collins drove a Ferrari sports car in a Champcar qualifying in a mystifying entry.

I believe he just tested at Trenton in the week before the USAC race (1958), there being no "hard fact" entry.

Also, Jim Clark just tested Bobby Marshman's sprinter for size, he didn't driver afaik.

[Julius]

Well...in a similar vein, How about NASCAR drivers that have driven in Formula 1 (or at least tested)?

It's a well known fact - perhaps an embaraasment - for NASCAR fans that Mark Martin is an avid F1 fan. He admits he loves to watch it and admitted that it is the pinnacle of the racing world. personally, I think many NASCAR drivers believe likewise, I'm just surprised that they would admit it so openly.

However, I'm really not surprised Mark Martin is such an F1 fan considering he was once a test driver for Ferrari before beginning his NASCAR career. In fact, at one time he was even offered a seat on the Ferrari team but declined due to the fact that his NASCAR career was rising so fast.

Martin’s short-lived association with Ferrari where he tested protype versions of the Ferrari 126 C4 Turbo 1496cc 700+ horsepower is documented in the book, entitled "Ruota in Pista" by Gianni Scagliere, Arti Grafiche Ruffinello, Firenze, 1987. The book was also released in English as "Wheels on the Track" by Gianni Scagliere, 1988, the publisher was Lattimer, New York [ ISBN for "Wheels on the Track": 0801962905]. A couple of paragraphs in the book written in Italian details his period with Ferrari and Enzo's fascination with the American's natural ability. According to Scagliere's book, Martin had a calming effect on the entire Ferrari team. Whenever there was any type of turmoil within the ranks, Martin was often called in to help bring some calm to the environment. Scagliere quotes Enzo as once saying "...Martin has a calmness in his actions and demeanor which radiate reason and unity..." p197, "Wheel On the Track," Gianni Scagliere, Lattimer (English Translation Publisher), New York, 1988 However, because of Ferrari's contractual agreement with Michele Alboreto and ??? (sorry can't remember the name), Martin would have to wait two seasons before he could take a seat on the F1 team. In any event his Nascar career started accelerating and he became a significant footnote in Ferrari's history.

Apparently footage of two of his best test drives (one at Fiorano and one at the eight mile (that's right "8") oval at Volpenato are required viewing by all potential Ferrari drivers. Even Michael Schumacher after reviewing hours of Martin film footage said of him, "...he’s perhaps one of the greatest natural talents that ever drove for Ferrari".

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Julius
Martin’s short-lived association with Ferrari where he tested protype versions of the Ferrari 126 C4 Turbo 1496cc 700+ horsepower is documented in the book, entitled "Ruota in Pista" by Gianni Scagliere, Arti Grafiche Ruffinello, Firenze, 1987. The book was also released in English as "Wheels on the Track" by Gianni Scagliere, 1988, the publisher was Lattimer, New York [ ISBN for "Wheels on the Track": 0801962905]. A couple of paragraphs in the book written in Italian details his period with Ferrari and Enzo's fascination with the American's natural ability. According to Scagliere's book, Martin had a calming effect on the entire Ferrari team. Whenever there was any type of turmoil within the ranks, Martin was often called in to help bring some calm to the environment. Scagliere quotes Enzo as once saying "...Martin has a calmness in his actions and demeanor which radiate reason and unity..." p197, "Wheel On the Track," Gianni Scagliere, Lattimer (English Translation Publisher), New York, 1988 However, because of Ferrari's contractual agreement with Michele Alboreto and ??? (sorry can't remember the name), Martin would have to wait two seasons before he could take a seat on the F1 team. In any event his Nascar career started accelerating and he became a significant footnote in Ferrari's history.

Apparently footage of two of his best test drives (one at Fiorano and one at the eight mile (that's right "8") oval at Volpenato are required viewing by all potential Ferrari drivers. Even Michael Schumacher after reviewing hours of Martin film footage said of him, "...he’s perhaps one of the greatest natural talents that ever drove for Ferrari".

Julius, you won't be able to fool anybody here with this BS.

Mark Martin is an exceptional driving talent though.

[Joe Fan]

Here are the only two drivers that I can find who have competed in all four of the crown jewel events in the motorsports world (ie. Daytona 500, Indy 500, Le Mans 24 Hours, and the Monaco Grand Prix). I have also provided their best finish in each event.

Mario Andretti
Daytona 500--1st 1967
Indy 500--1st 1969
Le Mans 24HRS--2nd 1995
Monaco GP--5th 1977

Dan Gurney
Daytona 500--5th 1963
Indy 500-2nd 1968 & 1969
Le Mans 24 HRS--1st 1967
Monaco GP--5th 1961

I just thought this might be of interest to some.

[David McKinney]

I've never before seen those four races referred to as "the crown jewels". But I suppose if you accept that F1, WSC, AAA/USAC/CART/Indycar and NASCAR are the top four series in the world, then it's as good a list as any. You'd certainly find argument about Monaco being the 'crown jewel' of F1 though, and Le Mans became the biggest WSC race only after the demise of much better claimants to that title - the Mille Miglia and the Carrera Panamericana to name just two.
And I for one would not necessarily accept that NASCAR should be included (unless you're American).
But it's an interesting list in spite of all that.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I've never before seen those four races referred to as "the crown jewels". But I suppose if you accept that F1, WSC, AAA/USAC/CART/Indycar and NASCAR are the top four series in the world, then it's as good a list as any. You'd certainly find argument about Monaco being the 'crown jewel' of F1 though, and Le Mans became the biggest WSC race only after the demise of much better claimants to that title - the Mille Miglia and the Carrera Panamericana to name just two.
And I for one would not necessarily accept that NASCAR should be included (unless you're American).
But it's an interesting list in spite of all that.

David, these are generally accepted as the crown jewel events in the motorsports world mainly because these races are some of the oldest and/or most coveted races in the top four series in the world to win. Note that if a race was really THE crown jewel event for a type of racing, it would/should have survived the test of time. BTW, there was a pole the other day on the Speed Channel site asking which one of the races you as a fan would most like to win.

[Julius]

Originally posted by Joe Fan


Julius, you won't be able to fool anybody here with this BS.

Mark Martin is an exceptional driving talent though.

Thanks Joe Fan for responding. Yeah, it's BS - but I thought it would be funny.

Anyways, that post is not entirely mine. It was taken from a collection of posts on the Speedvision F1 Boards and refined by a whole bunch of fans on that board. The post started in response to an article in which Mark Martin said that he loved to watch F1 because, (paraphrased), "...you never saw second-rate teams or talents". Consequently, people started contributing to the "legend" when the first BS posting said, (paraphrased). "...yeah, but this is not surprising since Martin used to be an F1 test driver". From there, the story was further embellished via a lot of dedicated contributions from other F1 fans.

I'd love to see any posts which could further refine the "story" and help turn it into some first-class BS.

I hope the "story" amused you and others on the board for that was it's only intention.

[Doug Nye]

Four crown jewels amongst the major leagues of worldwide racing? Hmm. Very interesting notion. Daytona 500 - undoubtedly tops in the scrapyard challenge class of racing - Indy 500 now sadly much devalued but perhapsabout to resume its position as undoubtedly the tops in the speedway single-seater, head in the open air, category - Le Mans 24-Hours, unchallenged as absolutely the tops in the endurance sports car and GT world - but Formula 1?????

What is F1's crown jewel? DEFINITELY not Monaco ther than to peripherals/newcomers/sponsors and the downright naive or gullible - but what is the tip-top F1 GP???

I would nominate the Italian GP at Monza - longest-established venue, dripping with charisma, the trees there in the Royal park make peak-revs noises even on a deserted day in winter, like a genetic memory, when the wind howls through. Italian GP, try that one - any other nominations???

DCN

[rdrcr]

Jeez, Julius I thought you were serious very funny indeed. What a load... but good to hear Martin thinks so highly of F1 as I think he's one class guy and driver in America's premier tin-top series. Too bad he's never gotten the call ;)

Doug - Regarding Monaco, I think that many contain that it is, because Monaco has been the center piece of the glamour, drama and mystique of F1 for so long that it is often identified as F1's "crown jewel". Fantastic a street course that it is, it's often a race of luck and attrition, not skill. Though it takes tons of skill to get around there quick without peeling the corners of your car. So I'd place my choice elsewhere. I'd nominate Spa. Another long established venue, currently used and though the terminal speeds aren't as great at those at Monza, I think that the overall difficulty is greater at Spa. With more hair per meter required than anywhere, I think it's a great measure of courage and skill.

Joe - right you are on those two... And because of Mario's stellar record in many different kinds of cars in at least 3 decades of racing, I think he's the best all around driver of all time. He's come out on top in most everything he's ever sat in.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Four crown jewels amongst the major leagues of worldwide racing? Hmm. Very interesting notion. Daytona 500 - undoubtedly tops in the scrapyard challenge class of racing - Indy 500 now sadly much devalued but perhapsabout to resume its position as undoubtedly the tops in the speedway single-seater, head in the open air, category - Le Mans 24-Hours, unchallenged as absolutely the tops in the endurance sports car and GT world - but Formula 1?????

What is F1's crown jewel? DEFINITELY not Monaco ther than to peripherals/newcomers/sponsors and the downright naive or gullible - but what is the tip-top F1 GP???

I would nominate the Italian GP at Monza - longest-established venue, dripping with charisma, the trees there in the Royal park make peak-revs noises even on a deserted day in winter, like a genetic memory, when the wind howls through. Italian GP, try that one - any other nominations???

DCN

About 20 to 25 years ago, Monte Carlo simply got too small for GP/F1 cars. It hangs on due to hype and ignorance. Put Monza back to how it was in 1971 -- before chicanes -- and it would get my vote. Daytona might be one that the Southern 500 should replace (okay, I used to live near Darlington...in Florence County), but the Indy 500 and Le Mans, no question.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


What is F1's crown jewel? DEFINITELY not Monaco ther than to peripherals/newcomers/sponsors and the downright naive or gullible - but what is the tip-top F1 GP???



DCN

If crown jewel means the race the teams most want to win, then it might be Monaco, if only because of the number of sponsors and potential sponsors who are in town. Some of them might be aware of what is happening even if they don't see the race.

Until the late 1920s, themost important race was the French, in the 1930s it became the German and in the 40s and 50s it became the Italian. The commmon factor was that it was the home race of the dominant teams. When Vanwall started winning, it probably meant more to Vandervell to beat the "bloody red cars" on their home ground than to win in a suburb of Liverpool.

When British cars started winning reguarly, the unofficial Grandest Prix title did not transfer here; Siverstone and Brands Hatch were lacking someting in comparison with Monza and the Nurburgring. Nowadays, apart from Monaco's status as a sponsor trap, the circuits are so similar that it is difficult to distinguish between them. The championship is what matters, not the individual races.

[Joe Fan]

Regarding the crown jewel events, back during the 50's and 60's, most road racers felt that winning the Nurburgring 1000KM was a more significant achievement than winning the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Why? Because it was a driver's track. You had over 1500 chances to screw up.

When it comes to 24 hour endurance races, the Daytona 24 Hours is a much tougher race on the car and driver than Le Mans. This is due to its banking and the fact that more hours of the event are competed in darkness. Therefore, many racers view winning this race as more of an achievement than winning Le Mans.

I agree that Monaco is too small for current F1 cars and provides little passing. Perhaps the Belgium Grand Prix at Spa should really be the crown jewel as it was a driver's track that tested your skill and bravery. However, history is on Monaco's side. It is the most famous street circuit in the world and winning it in front of Royalty, always made it carry a bit more prestige.

[Milan Fistonic]

From Autosport, November 3, 1967


Clark goes well at Rockingham

The American 500 at Rockingham, one of the biggest NASCAR events of the year, was specially notable this season for heralding the stocker debut of Grand Prix drivers Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt and Lodovico Scarfiotti.

Clark's Holman & Moody prepared 7-litre Fairlane crashed spectacularly in practice when it lost a wheel and spun again and again before hitting the retaining wall; Jimmy was unhurt, but although the car was mended for the race he had to start in 25th position on the 44-car grid. Nothing daunted, he worked his way up to 12th place by quarter-distance, but a blown engine forced his retirement before co-driver Rindt could take over.

Scarfiotti qualified 24th fastest but his car failed final scrutineering because of insufficient ground clearance and could not start.

The race was won by Bobby Allison's Fairlane; David Pearson's Fairlane was second from Paul Goldsmith (Plymouth) and A.J. Foyt (Fairlane).

[howl]

Originally posted by bkalb
A whole raft of F1 drivers drove at Indy. Alberto Ascari in '52 (or perhaps '53) was the only driver to cross the Atlantic from Europe to America while the Indy 500 was part of the world championship. Jack Brabham drove at Indy in '59 or '60, then Jim Clark and Dan Gurney started the F1 invasion that changed Indy cars forever. Graham Hill drove the race. Eddie Cheever did, too, but I believe only after he had retired from F1. Emmerson Fittipaldi and Nigel Mansel both excelled at Indy-car racing after leaving F1. And there are many others who went from F1 to Indycars, like Roberto Moreno, Christian Fittipaldi, etc.

Since Phoenix November 10th 2002 add Christian Fittipaldi among the NASCAR drivers too. After qualifying the #44 Petty Dodge in 17th, he ended his first race in the wall.

Jesper O. Hansen

[Dudley]

In recent times, Emmo, Zanardi, Magnussen and Katayama in CART. David Hobbs tried Indy Car and NASCAR.

Ukyo? How did he do?

[theunions]

Originally posted by ensign14
The first non-American driver in the Daytona 500 was, bizarrely, Brian Naylor (of JBW fame), who took part (IIRC) in 1962.

No, Eduardo Dibos of Peru ran in the inaugural '59 race.

[theunions]

Originally posted by Dudley


Ukyo? How did he do?

He's never raced in either CART or IRL. Jac Man may be thinking of Noda instead (handful of IRL starts last season).

[theunions]

Originally posted by howl


Since Phoenix November 10th 2002 add Christian Fittipaldi among the NASCAR drivers too.

While that was his first Winston Cup start, he'd been in NASCAR a full year before that, making his Busch Grand National debut at Homestead last Nov. and running about 3 more races since then.

[theunions]

Originally posted by Julius
It's a well known fact - perhaps an embaraasment - for NASCAR fans that Mark Martin is an avid F1 fan. He admits he loves to watch it and admitted that it is the pinnacle of the racing world. personally, I think many NASCAR drivers believe likewise, I'm just surprised that they would admit it so openly.

I hadn't heard about MM specifically, but Johnny Benson, Kyle Petty and Jeff Burton are all well-documented and vocal F1 fans. And Earnhardt Sr. had a public admiration for both Senna and Mansell.

Max Papis tested a Travis Carter Ford at Lakeland, FL about six weeks ago. He had a second test pending this past week (not sure where offhand) with Chip Ganassi in the Target Dodge, but Casey Mears (who I photographed talking to Mad Max at Phoenix) wrecked the car before Max could get in.

[theunions]

Originally posted by bkalb
A whole raft of F1 drivers drove at Indy. Alberto Ascari in '52 (or perhaps '53) was the only driver to cross the Atlantic from Europe to America while the Indy 500 was part of the world championship.

Actually a few others - Fangio and Farina come to mind - were entered and did practice but made no qualifying attempt. In contrast, Troy Ruttman ran the '58 French GP in a Scuderia Centro Sud Maserati, finishing 10th, and went to Nurburgring but blew his engine in practice.

[Bob Holcombe]

In 1963 I saw Pedro Rodriguez drive in the July 4th Daytona Firecracker 400 NASCAR race. He drove the Ray Nichels-prepared #02 Pontiac. He started 9th, finished 25th, out on the 54th lap with a blown engine. Sadly (as a Pontiac fan), this was some months after GM withdrew from racing and the Pontiacs were woefully outclassed.

Bob

[fines]

Originally posted by theunions
Actually a few others - Fangio and Farina come to mind - were entered and did practice but made no qualifying attempt.

Add to that Jorge Daponte (in 1953 iirc). I will try to compile a complete list of F1 drivers in USAC Champ Car events later.

[Don Capps]

Stirling Moss, Luigi Musso, Phil Hill, and Mike Hawthorn were all involved in the 1958 USAC Monza race.

Roger Penske -- GP, NASCAR & USAC stock cars, 1962 USAC Road Racing Champion

Lloyd Ruby did USAC and GP

Walt Hansgen did GP and USAC

Bob Schroeder did GP and USAC (well, the RRC....)

Bobby Unser did USAC and GP

[fines]

Does Tony Alphabet count? I believe he appeared in the F5000 section of the "Questor GP", so technically he wouldn't be an F1 driver, but if anyone chose to ignore that, yes, he also raced USAC Champ Cars (well, actually he only practiced, never qualified). Similar cases might be Kevin Bartlett, Evan Noyes, Swede Savage and Lou Sell, can't be bothered to check that right now. Actually, even Foyt and Al Unser raced there iirc. Anyway, here's the (hopefully) complete list of F1 drivers in USAC Champ Car events:

Chris Amon, Mario Andretti, Lucien Bianchi, Jack Brabham, Ronnie Bucknum, John Cannon, Jim Clark, George Constantine (DNS), Chuck Daigh (DNS), Mark Donohue, George Eaton, Jack Fairman (DNS), Juan Fangio (DNS), Giuseppe Farina (DNS), George Follmer, Richie Ginther (DNS), Masten Gregory, Dan Gurney, Walt Hansgen, Ludwig Heimrath (Sr.), Graham Hill, David Hobbs, Denny Hulme, Alan Jones (DNS, but later in CART), Brett Lunger (DNS), Bruce McLaren (DNS), Graham McRae, Danny Ongais, Teddy Pilette (DNS), Sam Posey, Clay Regazzoni, Peter Revson, Jochen Rindt, Pedro Rodríguez (DNS), Bertil Roos (DNS), Lloyd Ruby, Troy Ruttman, Vern Schuppan, Mike Spence (DNS), Jackie Stewart, John Surtees, Bobby Unser, Rodger Ward.

Only at Monzanapolis: Jean Behra (DNS), Mario Borniggia (DNS), Ivor Bueb, Mike Hawthorn, Phil Hill, Jock Lawrence, Stirling Moss, Luigi Musso, Ninian Sanderson, Harry Schell, Maurice Trintignant

Entered, but never practiced (afaik) : Lorenzo Bandini, Bob Said, Carroll Shelby

Hey, going through this list makes one think who of the USAC boys should have competed in F1: Johnny Rutherford, Johnny Thomson, A. J. Foyt, Gordon Johncock, Roger McCluskey etc. etc. etc. Too bad there was such a good living to be made at Indy!

[fines]

Originally posted by Don Capps
Bob Schroeder did GP and USAC (well, the RRC....)

There was one Bob Schroeder appearing in 1958/9 USAC Champ Cars after acquiring an old Lindsey Hopkins dirt track car. Didn't do very well, qualified only half the time and had a best finish of 13th, but I wonder: Is this the same guy?

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by fines
There was one Bob Schroeder appearing in 1958/9 USAC Champ Cars after acquiring an old Lindsey Hopkins dirt track car. Didn't do very well, qualified only half the time and had a best finish of 13th, but I wonder: Is this the same guy?

Michael, I am really not certain since I was under the impression -- perhaps mistaken in retrospect -- that these were two different people.

[Ray Bell]

You haven't included Nelson Piquet or Emmo...

Does this mean you distinguish between CART and USAC, or you just missed them?

[fines]

Read closely, Ray, it's only USAC!;)

I can come up with AAA, CART and IRL as well, if anyone is interested.

[theunions]

Originally posted by fines
Alan Jones (DNS, but later in CART), Brett Lunger (DNS)

When were these??? (I do know when Alan was in CART though)

[fines]

Jones: 1977-03-06 Ontario 200, #39 Theodore Racing McLaren/Offy, qualified but driven by Steve Krisiloff in the race. Don't know the particulars offhand.

Lunger: 1974-11-02 Bobby Ball 150 (Phoenix), #6 Jorgensen (AAR) Eagle/Chevy F5000, DNS (gearbox)

[Don Capps]

Pedro Rodriguez finished sixth in the 17 May 1959 USAC stock car race at Tenton, New Jersey -- he drove a ("weary") 1957 Ford.

[MattPete]

Phil Hill started at least one NASCAR race.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by MattPete
Phil Hill started at least one NASCAR race.

I cannot find any record of Phil Hill competing in the Grand National Division. The closest Hill came to NASCAR was competing in the FIA Daytona events sanctioned by NASCAR, which isn't quite the same thing.....

[MattPete]

Originally posted by Don Capps


I cannot find any record of Phil Hill competing in the Grand National Division. The closest Hill came to NASCAR was competing in the FIA Daytona events sanctioned by NASCAR, which isn't quite the same thing.....

I haven't been able to find any info, either. Having said that, I have a firm memory of reading a Road and Track article by Phil Hill where he tells the story of the NASCAR promotor enticing him to enter an oval race.

Unfortunately, NASCAR doesn't seem to have their own version of Forix (at least from what I can find), and Phil's own site says nothing about NASCAR.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by MattPete


I haven't been able to find any info, either. Having said that, I have a firm memory of reading a Road and Track article by Phil Hill where he tells the story of the NASCAR promotor enticing him to enter an oval race.

Unfortunately, NASCAR doesn't seem to have their own version of Forix (at least from what I can find), and Phil's own site says nothing about NASCAR.

Greg Fielden's Encyclopedia of Stock Car Racing, although now getting out of date, lists all drivers and team owners who ever started a race until (I think) 1996 - no sign of Phil Hill. Maybe he was a DNS? (This is an absolutely monumental work and a must for NASCAR fans, as is Greg's privately published 5 volume history of NASCAR from 1949 to 1993. And dirt cheap as well, considering the info you get. Not coffee table works, but all the better for it.)

[Don Capps]

I have checked both my copies of the Fielden collection as well as the encyclopedia that Fielden and Peter Goldenbock produced several years ago. It is not beyond the pale that Hill ran in the Pacific Coast division of NASCAR (or even AAA....) in the early 1950's, the records of which are essentially vague and incomplete at best and totally absent at worse.

[MattPete]

Maybe I'm just mis-remembering (I'm halfway tempted to enail Phil Hill myself). From what I remember (which isn't much of anything these days), the race would have been in the mid to late 60's, well after Phil GP championship.