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Wanted: feedback on book idea


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#1 Joe Fan

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Posted 01 March 2002 - 23:53

I am thinking a couple years ahead about my next project and I want to get some feedback. What do you all think about the idea of a book on the racing history of the Ford Mustang? From sports car racing in the mid 60's in SCCA, Trans-AM, to the international scene, drag racing, etc. all the way up to today. I have looked and looked for such a book and I haven't found any good books on the subject. Some dabble on it but their main focus is info on the production models through the years. Anybody know of such a book? This seems to me to be an idea that I would attract publisher rather easily.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 00:06

Yes, Joe... you could get f li to write the foreword and Fast One to do the Introduction...

(For those lost by this comment, please see this thread:
http://www.atlasf1.c...=&threadid=1098 )


Seriously though, it would merit attention... there are about 15 of them racing this weekend in a support race (for "Historic" Touring Cars) at the Australian Grand Prix meeting at Albert Park...

They dominated their class in England and Australia as well, featured competition scenes in A Man And A Woman and probably many other movies... well worth some attention.

#3 Joe Fan

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 03:56

Ray, I am sure that I would need to include this at the beginning of the book to show its lineage.
http://members.atlas...fan/mustang.htm

:wave: :rotfl:

Here is the transitory missing link between the 1962 Mustang I Prototype and GT40 Mark I.

http://members.atlas...an/mustang2.htm

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 13:27

Originally posted by Joe Fan
Ray, I am sure that I would need to include this at the beginning of the book to show its lineage.
http://members.atlas...fan/mustang.htm

Here is the transitory missing link between the 1962 Mustang I Prototype and GT40 Mark I.

http://members.atlas...an/mustang2.htm


Hey, don't do that, Don will have a heart attack!

#5 Joe Fan

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 15:19

Ray, are there a lot of Mustang fans in Australia? Were Mustangs raced at Bathurst? Just curious because I had thought that Mustangs were pretty much confined to the US when it came to racing. One thing that I think that is interesting is that there have been some pretty big names from the American racing scene that have raced a Mustang at one time or another during their career: Dan Gurney, A.J. Foyt, Parnelli Jones, Mark Donohue, Peter Revson, Jerry Titus, Jim Hall, George Follmer, Ronnie Bucknum, Sam Posey, Dick Thompson, Peter Gregg, etc. If you include silhouettes Scott Pruett, Ron Fellows, Dorsey Schroeder, Boris Said III, Tommy Kendall, and John Force in the NHRA if you really want to stretch the name plate.

#6 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 15:35

Originally posted by Joe Fan
[ I had thought that Mustangs were pretty much confined to the US when it came to racing. [/B]


I never cease to be amazed by Americans...

Ford Mustangs led races, won races, led rallies, won rallies, led championships, won championships in almost every single nation in which motor racing has taken place - throughout South America, Australia, New Zealand, Southern Africa, Continental Europe and the UK and Eire. This could indeed become a VERY thick book...and the very best of luck - start digging.

DCN

#7 Joe Fan

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 16:12

Doug, don't be too amazed. I am aware that Mustangs were raced abroad (even in the Le Mans 24 Hours) but I think that the Mustang's strongest race heritage is in North America (ie. Trans-Am and SCCA). If the Mustang has won rallies and championships outside of North America, then I've got some more digging to do as you suggest because we don't get much exposure to them here. If anyone has any leads, let me know. I still wonder if a book like this would have a big enough potential market to attract a publisher's interest. It seems to me that it would because

#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 16:27

Originally posted by Joe Fan
Ray, are there a lot of Mustang fans in Australia? Were Mustangs raced at Bathurst? ......


Joe, among the very many Mustang fans in Australia is Shane Cowham, the artist whose work I posted several examples of some months ago... he has just put a '67 model on the road over the past couple of years, runs it in occasional sprints and hillclimbs.

As for Bathurst, yes of course!

...in evidence I present:

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Ian Geoghegan with that famous view from the Esses, just below Skyline...

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...and around the next bend braking for the famous Dipper.

Ian (Pete) was famous for taking his older model to the fore when Allan Moffat raced his American-built Trans-Am car, a car that still gives enthusiasts by the thousand some kind of thrill. I can't describe this, as it doesn't get to me at all... here they are at Warwick Farm:

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This is just coming off the Northern Crossing, heading for yours truly with a blue flag held steady on the next lefthander. The earlier car had a lot more attitude in this corner, I recall...

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This is the defining moment of their clashes, the moment when Moffat learned he wasn't to play rough with Pete because the big man could dish it out too! You'll notice another Mustang further back, the Bob Jane Trans-Am that blitzed the field at Bathurst a year or two earlier. It was also an American-built car.

#9 paulhooft

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 16:45

I remember seeing Mustangs race at Zandvoort back in the 60's
That was great fun!!
Paul Hooft

#10 fines

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 23:28

Originally posted by paulhooft
I remember seeing Mustangs race at Zandvoort back in the 60's

Didn't Rob Slotemaker die in a Mustang race at Zandvoort in '79? :(

#11 Joe Fan

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 23:54

Ray, thanks for posting those pics.

BTW, I found this info about Touring Car Championships that the Ford Mustang has won abroad.

1965 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Norm Beechey)
1965 British Touring Car Championship (driver Roy Pierpiont)
1966 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)
1967 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)
1968 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)
1969 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)

#12 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 08:55

Originally posted by Joe Fan
Ray, thanks for posting those pics.

BTW, I found this info about Touring Car Championships that the Ford Mustang has won abroad.

1965 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Norm Beechey)
1965 British Touring Car Championship (driver Roy Pierpiont)
1966 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)
1967 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)
1968 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)
1969 Australian Touring Car Championship (driver Ian Geoghegan)




To which you can add

1969 NZ Saloon Car Championship (driver Paul Fahey)
1970 joint winner of NZ Saloon Car Championship (driver Red Dawson)
1974 NZ Saloon Car Championship (driver Jim Richards)

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 11:16

If anyone has that fabulous photo of Geoghegan in the Super Falcon leading Moffat's Mustang down the esses at Bathurst (with Jane behind them in the Camaro?) from the ATCC 25 years book by Chevron, please post it...

You have my permission... it's my picture.

#14 Catalina Park

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 11:38

Somewhere I have a picture of Bob Janes Mustang on its car trailer after its demise at Catalina Park.

#15 Frank de Jong

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 16:16

Originally posted by fines

Didn't Rob Slotemaker die in a Mustang race at Zandvoort in '79? :(


He died in another American Icon, a Camaro in a Camaro race. Mustangs raced in Holland in the 60's and a final one in the 80's.

Joe, to give you an idea about the ETC:
In the 60's, a few cars were raced with some succes; in 1970, Frank Gardner's Boss car had a lot of succes in the UK; in 1976, an old Mustang picked up some points, finally, some group A mustangs (Zakspeed and a British car) raced unsuccesfully in the 80's.

By the way, are you familiar with the book "Fast Mustangs" by Alex gabbard? US-biased but not uninteresting.

#16 fines

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 16:43

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
He died in another American Icon, a Camaro in a Camaro race.

:blush: Ah yes, of course...

[to himself]Don't you ever leave your path, don't! Silly bugger...[/to himself]

#17 Gerr

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 17:29

JoeFan: Thought that this sight may be of interest:
http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~mexmust/
I didn't realise FoMoCo built Mustangs in so many locales.

#18 Joe Fan

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 17:52

Originally posted by Frank de Jong

By the way, are you familiar with the book "Fast Mustangs" by Alex gabbard? US-biased but not uninteresting.


No, I am not. What does it essentially contain? I see where I can buy it for $19 but thought I would ask first.


Originally posted by Gerr
I didn't realise FoMoCo built Mustangs in so many locales.



I didn't either! Thanks for providing that link.

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 00:12

Since the residend slide scanner on TNF has been working overtime for me, I add to this thread a pic I took back in 1965...

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Norm Beechey in Craven A Corner at Catalina Park... August, 1965.

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#20 Bernd

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 00:37

Er... Thanks Ray. Is the cheque in the mail?;)

Pity that one is so dark but hell the foliage is so thick there that there is basically very little light. I brightened it up as much as I could without really blowing out the colour.

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 01:27

You have no idea how grateful I am for this Bernd... thanks once again.

While we're on the Mustang subject, here's another couple... and the blurring is not Bernd's fault either...

Posted Image

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This is a coming and going at the same corner... Ian Geoghegan, circa 1966, Lakeside... pretty exciting spot, really. As Bob will confirm...

#22 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 21 April 2002 - 01:07

JKoe, it ounds ral cool, and lots of the cars racing in the US were later sold to mexicans and were like the kings of the races in the 60s, including one which had Lothar Motsenbacher's Can Am engine, and was very very fast, runing against the Lolas T70 in the free class, an omntims winning. Also Moisés olana used one to win lots of races in Mexico. Sounds like a real cool project, go ahead by all means.

#23 Joe Fan

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Posted 21 April 2002 - 15:20

Ray, thanks for posting those nice pics.

Carlos, unfortunately for our sake, books about cars are an easier sell to a publisher. It is sad that most motorheads prefer reading about cars than the interesting personalities who raced them. One publisher told me that I ought to turn my Masten bio into a theme on the cars he drove since he was a privateer who drove the majority of the most famous marques during the 50-60's (Maserati 250F, Cooper T51, Birdcage Masers, Ford GT40, Shelby Cobra, Jagaur C and D Types, all sorts of Ferrari sports cars, Lotuses, Porchses, Alfa Romeos, etc.)

#24 Joe Fan

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Posted 11 September 2002 - 05:20

Well, look what I found:

http://search.barnes...isbn=0760311080

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2002 - 06:54

Does it go beyond the North American scene?

Maybe to England, where the annual title was fought out between Mustangs and Hillman Imps?

#26 Joe Fan

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Posted 11 September 2002 - 06:58

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Does it go beyond the North American scene?

Maybe to England, where the annual title was fought out between Mustangs and Hillman Imps?


I am not sure. I will buy the book and report back to mothership. However, here is a brief synopsis of the book: "The unmistakable influence of the Mustang on the racing world is seen here in endurance and drag, Trans Am, and GT racing. This major volume draws on the history of factory and privately sponsored efforts to lavishly chronicle the history of factory-produced models that have been put to the test as racing machines. Vivid historical and contemporary images reveal Mustang's 35+ years of competitive racing history. Hardcover, 10 x 10, 192 pp, 100 color and 100 b/w."

#27 917

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Posted 11 September 2002 - 20:52

Jochen Neerpasch (later BMW team manager) raced a Mustang in the 60s in Germany. Some radio commentators couldn't believe that a German citizen drove such a big car, so they pronounced his name English...

#28 Joe Fan

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 01:09

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Does it go beyond the North American scene?

Maybe to England, where the annual title was fought out between Mustangs and Hillman Imps?


I just got the book today and after reviewing it, it talks about some of the accomplishments outside of the USA but very little. For example, Ian “Pete” Geoghegan is not even mentioned in the book and he won four Australian Touring Car Championships in a Mustang. Roy Pierpont, who won the 1965 BTCC in a Mustang, also is not mentioned. Overall, this is a good book for the American Mustang fan but what I had in mind was broader and more detailed that also would profile the great personalities who race pony cars.

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 02:28

What a shame the 'Pete' Geoghegan story can't have a happy ending...

Bob Levett was telling me the other day how badly he feels about the way 'Big Pete's' finished up, a truly broken man. Living on veritable handouts from friends in the used car and motor racing industries running errands for them.

a far cry from when he dominated both the Mustang and the opposition...

I'll bet someone has an appropriate picture out there somewhere... I can't seem to find one.

#30 Dennis David

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 03:00

This thread gives me an idea. What about a book that is a little less traditional? Suppose I followed the “racing career” of a half dozen racecars, ones that went through numerous hands and raced on three or more continents. The cars themselves would become the central characters. I would follow them from their birth in the factory to their first outings and finally to the their retirement either in a ditch or a museum. I can imagine that there must be many candidates that I could choose from. Recording their success, owners, modifications, etc. A biography rather than a history of a car or cars.

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 03:06

Sounds good to me...

Especially if you followed a batch of similar or identical cars that had a diverse history. One racing in the Argentine, for instance, landing a Chevy V8 in the fifties and so on... one to England and Historic Racing there, never being modified... one to New Zealand to provide the launching pad for one of the greats of the drivers of the sixties... one to some wealthy Italian patron who put a dozen different drivers into it...

Could be a good read.

#32 Dennis David

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 03:15

Exactly. Imagine a car with 9 lives. Shiny new, crashed, burned, lost, resurrected. I can imagine going to some of the historic events or auctions and coming up with all sorts of ideas. I especially like some of the offbeat stories like a car starting out as a New York Taxi and ending up in South America in one of their epic races.

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 03:32

Ahh... the really romantic stuff...

Here's my favourite...

Posted Image

Some traces are still discernable in this 1933 pic...

Posted Image

...for more, go to this post... well, much of the thread...

http://www.atlasf1.c...s=&postid=22010

#34 Joe Fan

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 04:51

Originally posted by Dennis David
This thread gives me an idea. What about a book that is a little less traditional? Suppose I followed the “racing career” of a half dozen racecars, ones that went through numerous hands and raced on three or more continents. The cars themselves would become the central characters. I would follow them from their birth in the factory to their first outings and finally to the their retirement either in a ditch or a museum. I can imagine that there must be many candidates that I could choose from. Recording their success, owners, modifications, etc. A biography rather than a history of a car or cars.


Good idea just pick well known marques. A good one would be the GT40 that Gulf won two Le Mans with and a Chapparal of some sort. That would get the American market interested.

#35 Joe Fan

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 04:57

Originally posted by Ray Bell
What a shame the 'Pete' Geoghegan story can't have a happy ending...

Bob Levett was telling me the other day how badly he feels about the way 'Big Pete's' finished up, a truly broken man. Living on veritable handouts from friends in the used car and motor racing industries running errands for them.

a far cry from when he dominated both the Mustang and the opposition...

I'll bet someone has an appropriate picture out there somewhere... I can't seem to find one.


Wow! Pete deserves a better fate than that.

Overall, I think John Craft's book is well presented but he left a lot on the table since it only concentrated on the Mustang's success in the U.S. I am not the kind who thinks that if it didn't happen in my backyard, then it isn't significant. A good historian should believe that everything is historically significant in the world of racing.

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 05:37

Originally posted by Joe Fan
Wow! Pete deserves a better fate than that....


There's actually worse...

'Deserves' is an interesting word in this instance...