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De Angelis and Alboreto


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#1 man

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 17:36

Whats the story behind these two? I recall that they disliked one another which is strange because Alboreto was a quiet character who always seemed to be pleasant with all his rivals. De Angelis was also a gentleman, was it down to the fact that they were both Italians and were both competing to be the number 1 Italian driver? How did it all come about?

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#2 magic

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 20:09

guessing: elio aristocrat and albereto from lower class?

#3 FEV

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 20:56

I might be wrong, but I dont remember having ever heard of special "hate" between de Angelis and Alboreto. There was a fierce competition between the numerous young Italian F1 drivers of the early 80s and there has been some clashes (like San Marino 1981 where something like four of them took out each other in the first laps), but afaik there was no real hate like between Depailler and Jarier for instance.

#4 maxim

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 22:20

Originally posted by magic
guessing: elio aristocrat and albereto from lower class?


Elio Roman, Michele Milanese ?
I'm italian but I recall no squabble at all between these two guys.

#5 magic

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 22:56

picture in book from heinz pruller, 'grand prix '85', page 74, elio and michele, side by side, big smiles, no problem.
both led the wdc one after the other.

#6 alain_sl

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 03:38

extract from The Irish Times
(www.ireland.com/newspaper/obituaries/2001/0505/obit3.htm)

"At the end of 1983 he received an offer no Italian could refuse. It came, he later related, as a result of an interview he had given after his win in Detroit, in which he criticised Ferrari for failing to hire an Italian driver. He had been advancing the claims of Patrese and Elio De Angelis, ..."

nice fraternity. :up:

#7 Mohican

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 10:57

Originally posted by FEV
I might be wrong, but I dont remember having ever heard of special "hate" between de Angelis and Alboreto. There was a fierce competition between the numerous young Italian F1 drivers of the early 80s and there has been some clashes (like San Marino 1981 where something like four of them took out each other in the first laps), but afaik there was no real hate like between Depailler and Jarier for instance.


Interesting. I did not know that there was any possible friction between De Angelis and Alboreto - but then I did not know that Depailler and Jarier did not get along. can you shed some more light on this ?

#8 deangelis86

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 12:19

As far as I am aware there was no friction whatsoever between Elio and Michele. They both respected each other on and off the track, would be interested to find out where the source of friction was quoted :confused:

#9 man

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 14:42

Source = Murray Walker-former BBC and ITV commentator. I was watching the 1985 Monaco GP on video and Murray mentioned that they didn't get along at all.

#10 BRG

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 16:21

I had never heard of anything between them either - or about Depailler and Jarier.

But it is inevitable, with competitive guys like this, that there will be people who come to blows (either literally or figuratively) during their careers. Certainly, there is plenty of scope in karting and in the junior formulas for drivers to clash badly enough on track to establish a permanent antipathy. A recent instance is Pat Long and Robert Dahlgren in British F.Ford last year. There was a nasty on-track incident at Silverstone that decided the championship in favour of Dahlgren. Long then retaliated at the F. FOrd Festival I imagine that these two will be at war for a long time as a result.

Then there are off-track matters. These might be pinching another guy's girl-friend or another guy's drive. I think that something of this sort may be what happened between the two Mikas who fell out during their F3 days. Mind you, if Salo talked back then the way he talks now, it is not surprising that Hakkinen went off him.

A while ago, I posted a thread about Wollek and Schlesser after reading that Wollek loathed him to the extent of carrying round a scrap-book of adverse press-cuttings. But no-one was able to enlighten me about the actual root cause of the enmity.

Anyone know of any other famous or not so famous dislikes/antipathies?

#11 deangelis86

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 16:22

Very interesting - the plot thickens!

Although I respect Murray enormously for his knowledge of the sport, I can probably safely say that I've read more historical interviews and articles specifically about Elio than even Murray, and I have never read Elio or another journalist make any reference to personal problems with other F1 drivers, other than his own team-mate Nigel Mansell during 1981 and 1984.

The other Elio fanatic on here, AlainSL will probably confirm this methinks. Otherwise I guess we can put the speculation down as journalistic hearsay. Thanks for the topic!

#12 cheesy poofs

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 16:47

As far as I know, I've seen a picture of Alboreto ( Autosport 1982 ?? ) in the Lotus stand cheering Elio as he crossed the finish line narrowly beating Rosberg for his very first GP win in Austria in 1982 !

#13 maxim

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 19:58

Originally posted by BRG
.

Anyone know of any other famous or not so famous dislikes/antipathies?


James Hunt vs Eddie Cheever.

Well, James wasn't really "soft" with any driver but he deeply disliked Eddie especially.

#14 deangelis86

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 22:53

From the BBC Book 'Grand Prix 1988' James Hunt's comments on Eddie Cheever:

"He's been around an awfully long time to have done nothing in F1" :lol:

No love lost there, methinks....

#15 David McKinney

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 06:52

Originally posted by deangelis86
He's been around an awfully long time to have done nothing in F1

That looks to me like an objective assessment, not a suggestion of hatred

#16 fines

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 16:59

James Hunt and Riccardo Patrese
Tommy Milton and Ralph DePalma
Eddie Cheever and Tomas Scheckter :lol:

#17 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 17:28

James Hunt always seemed to dislike Alain Prost for some reason. Am I the only one who got that feeling?

#18 Schummy

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Posted 10 March 2002 - 02:19

Well... Alain and Ayrton. I don't know if this a revelation for someone :rolleyes:

We have been very unfortunate because we have been robbed of several potentially stormy/volcanic pairings: Senna/Mansell, Mansell/Piquet, Lauda/Jones, Schumacher/Senna,... :eek:
We saw Schumacher/Piquet but it was so brief

#19 stevew

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Posted 10 March 2002 - 05:59

Originally posted by man
Source = Murray Walker-former BBC and ITV commentator. I was watching the 1985 Monaco GP on video and Murray mentioned that they didn't get along at all.


Oh, THAT explains it... Murray probably meant to say "Mansell" and "Senna"...

;)

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#20 YOSSARION

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 07:45

Please somebody, tell more about the antipathy between Depailler and Jarier which I know nothing about.
As an aside, just reading the names brings back memories - Depailler, Jarier, Alboreto, de Angelis, Hunt etc - of a time when driver's seemed to be human beings aswell as drivers. What happened?

#21 deangelis86

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 12:44

What happened indeed.....I still miss the good old days. :(

Currently I am very worried about the future of 'Boremula One'.

#22 fines

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 22:49

Originally posted by deangelis86
What happened indeed.....I still miss the good old days. :(

Currently I am very worried about the future of 'Boremula One'.

Don't despair, the last race wasn't too bad - I fell asleep only twice... :yawn:

#23 maxie

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Posted 16 March 2002 - 15:12

i had hope in F1 when johnny herbert somehow won in nurburgring in 1999. but then, well, dare i say, F1 is hopeless ...

#24 Barry Lake

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Posted 17 March 2002 - 23:13

Surprised no one has mentioned Alan Jones and Nelson Piquet, or Alan Jones and Carlos Reutemann.

How about Damon Hill and Michael Schumacher, David Coulthard and Michael Schumacher, Heinz-Harald Frentzen and Michael Schumacher. Or the brewing Juan Pablo Montoya and Michael Schumacher? Or the short-lived but potentially fierce Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher?

Tazio Nuvolari and Achille Varzi.

Have we had Ayrton Senna and Nigel Mansell?

It could be a long list.

#25 Mohican

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 09:44

Not to mention Gilles Villeneuve vs Didier Pironi - which could have gone on for years had it not been for Zolder '82.

#26 Haddock

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:03

We have been very unfortunate because we have been robbed of several potentially stormy/volcanic pairings: Senna/Mansell, Mansell/Piquet, Lauda/Jones, Schumacher/Senna,...



As I'm sure many of you know, We certainly got the Mansell/Piquet pairing, and sure enough they didn't get on at all.

Hard to think of a single team mate, the effortlessly pleasant and by then not terribly quick Patrese aside, that Mansell actually did get on with.

#27 Doug Nye

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:07

The great Mansell line came from one of his contemporary team chief mechanics - no names - who declared "As long as he's fast we don't mind a driver who whinges - but what we can't stand at any price is a driver who whinges in a bloody Birmingham accent..."

DCN

#28 magic

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:39

"As long as he's fast we don't mind a driver who whinges - but what we can't stand at any price is a driver who whinges in a bloody Birmingham accent..



:lol::up:

#29 Barry Lake

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Posted 23 March 2002 - 01:39

This might be as good a time and place as any to ask TNFers to save me hours of reading through Autocourse etc to find the answer to something that has puzzled me recently...

At one of the Australian GPs in Adelaide I was in the media room for a post-something-or-other conference and there was some sort of a delay (probably TV related) so most of the interviewees hadn't arrived.

Informed of the delay, most of the journos wandered off. Then Nigel Mansell arrived. I think he was only an interested onlooker, though it's all vague memories now. The fudge in my head is trying to tell me there was some sort of political/technical dispute that was to be discussed and Mansell was interested in the outcome.

The others still present were a bunch of British journos (I remember some of them, but will withold their names) who saw Nigel coming and, one by one, walked away, so they wouldn't have to talk to him.

Next thing I knew, there was just Nigel and myself left there. So I tried to strike up a conversation.

Now, this is the question:

There had been two incidents in two different GPs that year. One was Senna on the outside crowding Mansell on his inside. The other was vice versa. Both corners, from memory were right handers at the end of a straight. On both occasions the drivers tangled.

Mansell was most vociferous about blaming Senna for the most recent of the two collisions. I suggested that both occasions were racing incidents but that in both cases, since the roles were reversed, if Senna was wrong in one, then Mansell was wrong in the other. Mansell really "arced up" at that suggestion, insisting that it was quite clear to him that Senna was wrong on both occasions. The discussion deteriorated to a sort of, "They were both the same situation!", "No they weren't; they were completely different!"

Can anyone remind me what year this might have been, and what the races and incidents were? It's been bugging me for some time now, but I've never been able to make the time to back-track and work it out.

Neither occasion, by the way, was the infamous Spa-Francorchamps clash.

#30 ensign14

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Posted 23 March 2002 - 09:06

Would one of them have been Portugal 89 when Mansell took Senna off after he had been blackflagged? I think the argument put forward by Mansell was that he was fully alongside, saw Senna wasn't going to give him room, braked hard to stop but still punted Senna.

#31 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 23 March 2002 - 09:41

The two have had their fair share of clashes through thte years. Apart from the mentioned Spa 87 and Estoril 89, they had a clash in Rio 1986 on the first lap at the sweeping left hander after the long straight, where Mansell was on the inside and Senna on the outside. Senna held his line so Mansell was forced onto the grass and crashed.

In 1992 (?) in Adelaide they collided in the final hairpin. They also collided on the opening lap of the 1985 race in Adelaide.

There's probably more :smoking:

#32 FredF1

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Posted 23 March 2002 - 21:33

Could have been 1992.
Didn't they have a coming together in Brazil during qualifying?
It's on the season review tape.

#33 Barry Lake

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Posted 24 March 2002 - 13:53

Hmmm. My memory was that the two incidents were in the same year.

Estoril 1989 is ringing bells.

Was there another, similar but reversed, situation within a few races of that one?

What I need here, I think, is someone who watches the season review videos repeatedly.

#34 dmj

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Posted 25 March 2002 - 19:07

Tazio Nuvolari and Achille Varzi.

I believed they were enemies just on track, and quite good friends elsewhere...

#35 ghinzani

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:19

All this talk of De Angelis and Nigel Mansell not getting along does'nt detract from the fact that when Elio died Nigel dedicated his next win to him, and from then onwards has always spoken fondly of Elio. A fitting tribute to a great man, and good driver, needlessly lost because of double standards.

#36 f1steveuk

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 13:05

Slightly OT, but they don't look like they are hating each other

Posted Image


Much though I know people respect Murray Walker, I wouldn't take it as read that he's right. I know one very well respected writer who was convinced that two particular French drivers "hated each other". He was latter staggered to see them playing golf. The writer then confessed his "opinion" was based on one incident, witnessed from a far. Now as I live in France I know that two Frenchmen talking can look very much like an argument, even when it is far from it. I shall say no more!!

#37 500MACHIII

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 22:30

HI!

Patrese and Cheever couldn't stand each other as well....
By the way Patrese got married with Cheever's sister.

#38 Bruno

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:46

All this talk of De Angelis and Nigel Mansell not getting along does'nt detract from the fact that when Elio died Nigel dedicated his next win to him, and from then onwards has always spoken fondly of Elio. A fitting tribute to a great man, and good driver, needlessly lost because of double standards.



Jarier, Depailler Trintignant and ???
Sommer?


#39 Lifew12

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:06

By the way Patrese got married with Cheever's sister.


Did he??

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#40 subh

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 10:36

Perhaps there was some confusion, because I certainly read that Alboreto and Nannini had a few run-ins on track in, I think, 1988 - words may have been spoken by Michele on this. Maybe that’s the story?

#41 Coral

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 11:33

Did he??


I didn't know that...isn't Patrese's wife Italian? I do remember reading somewhere though that Elio de Angelis' sister married Eddie Cheever's brother...

Edited by Coral, 20 August 2009 - 11:35.


#42 500MACHIII

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 21:58

Did he??



HI !

that's what I do recall...I'm going to check it anyhow.


#43 500MACHIII

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 22:04

I didn't know that...isn't Patrese's wife Italian? I do remember reading somewhere though that Elio de Angelis' sister married Eddie Cheever's brother...



HI Coral !

this nostalgia forum brings back memories and some of these can be fading ....but I'm pretty sure about it.
Anyhow I've started checking about it.... Hope I'll be sending a post in a short time.
Greetings.

#44 500MACHIII

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 22:52

I didn't know that...isn't Patrese's wife Italian? I do remember reading somewhere though that Elio de Angelis' sister married Eddie Cheever's brother...


To Coral -

HI!
I'm presently checking the flw:www.riccardopatrese.com/I/motorsport2.htm
A nice site indeed.


#45 sonar

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 19:27

I didn't know that...isn't Patrese's wife Italian? I do remember reading somewhere though that Elio de Angelis' sister married Eddie Cheever's brother...


The only thing I remember reading is that in 1982 orso Patrese had a relationship with the sister of Eddie Cheevers wife Rita. Her name was Lisa (I think).
I don't think they got married, though. I think they split up somewhere about that time too.

#46 Coral

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 20:54

To Coral -

HI!
I'm presently checking the flw:www.riccardopatrese.com/I/motorsport2.htm
A nice site indeed.


Hi 500MACHIII :wave:

I was right Eddie Cheever's brother Ross did indeed marry Elio de Angelis' sister Fabiana. I discovered where I had read it, it was in the wonderful book "Remembering Elio".