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'Salvage Squad', Channel 4 Monday night, UK only


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#1 Gary C

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 20:21

well, at last, after something 6-7 weeks of waiting we're finally getting the programme where the 'team' renovate the Lola T142. The programme airs between 8pm and 9pm on Monday night.
Hopefully the programme about the ex-Stewart MS80 will follow next week.

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#2 Doug Nye

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 20:37

The wee Scot's superb MS80? Now there is a VERY Historic car!

#3 Gary C

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 20:40

have you not been watching the programmes Doug? In the first prog they trailed some of the others & showed a few clips, including some of the MS80, it's the 1969 Spanish GP winner. I'd love to know where it's been all these years!

#4 Gary C

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Posted 11 March 2002 - 23:31

well...........did anyone catch this programme tonight?
Overall, I was a little disappointed in it. Nice to see some decent quality clips of F5000s in action though. I was a little upset when the voiceover stated that the car in question won a 'Grand Prix' in 1969. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

#5 ensign14

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 09:11

It did - Gran Premio de Madrid, driven by Tony Holland. Only 4 F1 cars turned up (a certain Max Mosley was a DNA), and of their drivers only Graham McRae started a World Championship GP. Neil Corner was another of the F1 starters.

Main disappointment was the totally lame 'race' at the end...

#6 Breadmaster

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 09:17

mind you after that crash i dare say no-one fancied racing speeds?

#7 LittleChris

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 10:56

I think we can forget about an MS80 reconstruction somehow, since the blurb at the start of the first programme in the series referred to the 1969 Spanish GP winning car which presumably was last nights programme. Also the footage shown at the series start was at Jarama not Montjuich.

#8 2F-001

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 11:11

I'd only seen a few minutes of this series before - and decided it was a cross between Scrapheap Challenge and Changing Rooms; thus, I was all set to wince and moan as an old car was mucked around with. Within its limits it was rather entertaining. I have to accept that the prog wasn't made with the likes of you and me in mind.

Are they really going to do the Matra MS80? (Someone described it to me as the S.A. GP winning MS10, but I believe you guys rather more...). I wondered if they'd been persuaded to do an historically less important car, hence the T142... Surely they won't tackle two single-seater racing cars?

I was all prepared to castigate this prog. but really could find it my heart to do so. They rather glossed over the ''Grand Prix'' bit though...

Also, I'm not sure where they dug up the fifty-one point something lap time they quoted. I think Keith Holland may have held the old one-litre F3 record for a while in the mid- to late-sixties, but even that was down into the forty-eights by the time F5000 appeared on the scene. At that first Mallory race in'69, the sharp end of the grid (Gethin and Hobbs) was lapping in mid 44s. The T142 was not the best of cars, but the Fraser one must have been a pretty good example and I can't imagine Holland being seven seconds off the pace - if he was there (programme will be in Dad's shed...).

#9 Gary C

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 11:44

er, it's own-up time here. In the intro to the first programme, they trailed some of the others, and said that the '1969 Spanish Grand Prix winning Formula 1 car' would be one of the subjects of a programme. I immediately went to the record books and found it was the Stewart Matra. However, after looking at last night's programme, they obviously meant the Lola as they said in the programme that 'it won the 1969 Spanish Grand Prix at Djarama' (mis-spelling is correct, as that was the way it was pronounced!!!?!). Oh for someone involved with the programme who knew just a smidgeon about motor racing!!!

#10 2F-001

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 11:48

Re; the ''Madrid GP, '69''...

Don't think Graham McRae was there, but Peter Gethin was (he was quickest and would have won but for breaking a con-rod with a lap to go), and Paul Hawkins was entered (but DNA) - Hawkins did a WC-GP later on, didn't he?

Mosely was DNF rather than DNA - having a dice with Tony Dean's BRM before dropping out.

Of the ''Formula One'' cars - Mosely's appeares to have been an F2 and one was an ageing Brabham with an enlarged Lotus TC.
It sounds as though Gethin and Holland put on a bit of a show and despite only 8 starters there were almost two pile-ups on the first lap!

ref: ''MotorSport'' vol XVI-5

#11 LittleChris

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 12:14

Originally posted by 2F-001
Re; the ''Madrid GP, '69''...

Don't think Graham McRae was there, but Peter Gethin was (he was quickest and would have won but for breaking a con-rod with a lap to go), and Paul Hawkins was entered (but DNA) - Hawkins did a WC-GP later on, didn't he?


Don't forget, Hawkeye went swimming during the 1965 Monaco GP, so he had already done WC-GP.

#12 MichaelJP

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 12:19

I watched the "Salvage Squad" and overall enjoyed the programme.

I do wish they would put less emphasis on the "show" at the end of each programme. I know that the idea is to give the "Squad" a deadline to work towards, but it always seems artificial, and in this case, the mock "race" at Mallory was completely pathetic!

Admittedly those conditions at Mallory in an F5000 would have put off all but the faint-hearted, especially if you had a personal stake in the car:)

The car did look nice though, and the rebuild made for interesting viewing.

- Michael

#13 Breadmaster

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 12:25

I personally enjoyed the show, but for the bits where their errors were glaring but i don't claim to be able to make tv shows so.....

I thought the explanations were pretty good ranging from simplistic to mildly technical, just seeing the restoration and a bit of vintage footage was good enough for me, although showing last years jaguar was a bit lame....maybe a '69 F1 car would have been more appropriate?

all in all :up:

#14 BRG

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 14:18

This whole series is sadly a bit flawed. There are huge unexplained omissions. With the Lola, there was all this stuff about water in one cylinder and how it could be a cracked block. Then, it's alright, the block isn't cracked - so where did the water come from ??? We were never told. And the Lola apparently had no electrics at all, because no-one mentioned it or did any wiring work. Nor did it have a cooling system apparently. In the episode where they restored a steam road roller, there was no mention of the boiler. Steam boilers (and other high-pressure vessels) in UK have to be tested and certificated by a qualified person - but this was never mentioned at all.

And the level of (lack of) knowledge about motor racing was abysmal. The final part at Mallory Park was just laughable. Thanks heavens it turned out to be only a F5000 and not the MS80 - that might have been sacrilege!

#15 Rob29

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 16:13

Originally posted by 2F-001
Re; the ''Madrid GP, '69''...

Don't think Graham McRae was there, but Peter Gethin was (he was quickest and would have won but for breaking a con-rod with a lap to go), and Paul Hawkins was entered (but DNA) - Hawkins did a WC-GP later on, didn't he?

Mosely was DNF rather than DNA - having a dice with Tony Dean's BRM before dropping out.

Of the ''Formula One'' cars - Mosely's appeares to have been an F2 and one was an ageing Brabham with an enlarged Lotus TC.
It sounds as though Gethin and Holland put on a bit of a show and despite only 8 starters there were almost two pile-ups on the first lap!

ref: ''MotorSport'' vol XVI-5

Jarama Grand Prix-40 laps-13/05/69-fine & sunny
#12-Tony Dean-BRM P61-2nd (one lap behind)
Neil Corner-Cooper-Maserati T86-Maroon & white-4th-3 laps behind
#16-Max Moseley-Lotus-FVA 59B-Retired lap 15 injector trumpet
Bill Stone-Brabham-Ford BT21-1800cc-5th-4laps behind
#52 Keith Holland-Lola Chevrolet T142-Dk Blue & white-1st-1 h 3m 29.8s
#53 Peter Gehin-McLaren Chevrolet M10A-Yellow Orange-Retired lap 39-engine
Robs Lamplough-Lotus-Ford 43-4727cc-Mid Blue-Retired lap 1 engine
#55 Jock Russell-Lotus-Ford 43 " Dark Blue White & Tartan-3rd -2laps behind
That was the complete list of arrivals!
Apro of another thread concerning the most cars at races.This one must equal one at Oulton Park in '67 for the least F1 cars-just TWO.

#16 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 16:46

Originally posted by Gary C
have you not been watching the programmes Doug? In the first prog they trailed some of the others & showed a few clips, including some of the MS80, it's the 1969 Spanish GP winner. I'd love to know where it's been all these years!


I have seen some of the programmes - I especially liked that on the Centurion tank which they managed to discover had first seen action in the Suez incident in 1956, and last saw action in the Gulf War in the 1990s. God bless our Ministry of Defence - sending our blokes to war in equipment nearly a half-century old. At least when Stormin' Norman's Abrams battle tanks had run out of fuel, the dozer-bladed Centurion just clanked straight past them, and drove on towards Baghdad...

Re JYS's Matra MS80 - it survived in wonderfully original order with Matra - was then given to Ricard-Castellet racing school instructor Rafaelli together with many other cars, spares, records, drawings etc from the Matra Sports facility at Le Castellet - Rafaelli restored the car to pristine running order in the early 1990s - it's since been acquired by a Marseilles enthusiast/racer/dealer and it's available for sale on the market right now.

DCN

#17 ensign14

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 19:45

Originally posted by 2F-001
Re; the ''Madrid GP, '69''...

Don't think Graham McRae was there, but Peter Gethin was (he was quickest and would have won but for breaking a con-rod with a lap to go), and Paul Hawkins was entered (but DNA) - Hawkins did a WC-GP later on, didn't he?

Mosely was DNF rather than DNA - having a dice with Tony Dean's BRM before dropping out.

Of the ''Formula One'' cars - Mosely's appeares to have been an F2 and one was an ageing Brabham with an enlarged Lotus TC.
It sounds as though Gethin and Holland put on a bit of a show and despite only 8 starters there were almost two pile-ups on the first lap!

ref: ''MotorSport'' vol XVI-5


:blush:

That'll teach me for logging on when away from the sources...

With Gethin, the point I was trying (inexpertly) to make was that no-one drove an F1 car who later drove in an F1 WC race - I misremembered McRae for Mosley, there were next to each other in Sheldon

#18 2F-001

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 22:04

ensign - I've just noticed your sign-off...

Stump's ''A fierce pancake'' ?? With the immortal line: Charlton Heston, kept his vest on.

#19 ensign14

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 22:41

Originally posted by 2F-001
ensign - I've just noticed your sign-off...

Stump's ''A fierce pancake'' ?? With the immortal line: Charlton Heston, kept his vest on.


The world can be divided into 2 - those who have heard of Stump and those who haven't... :smoking:

Sign-off will change soon - but I don't know what to

Back off topic again - to get it back ON topic, how come Neil Corner was racing in a contemporary F1 race? Albeit a most obscure one...even the Davidstow races seem to have had better entries!

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#20 Barry Boor

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 22:46

Can you believe I had a phone call from Gary C last night, before the program came on - and he forgot to remind me about it!  ;) So I missed it. But was it on S4C anyway?

#21 2F-001

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 23:34

Don't think it was Barry - at least not at that time. I messed up the VCR controls and somehow failed to tape it, so I can't offer it to you.

Ensign - for a lyrical sign-off, there is a line in a 'Beautiful South' song: ''there's always someone with a faster car...''

On ''Salvage Squad'' one of the racing clips from Brands included a few seconds of the Kitchiner (spelling) F5000 car. I remember this thing racing, with Gordon Spice among others driving, and a later version the ''Kitchmac'' (presumably a Mclaren based hybrid) but not much by way of details or history. Does anyone know any more? Rather bizzarrely, there was a question about this prog on The Ringers List (Nordschleife enthusiasts) from someone named Kitchener... (diff. spelling, unless I got the car spelling wrong...).

#22 2F-001

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 23:39

sorry - spurious double-post mouse-twitch finger trouble... (technical term)

#23 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 00:04

Tony Kitchiner worked for The Chequered Flag before setting up on his own and producing the Kitchiner K2, an F3 car, in 1969. It showed promise when tested by Cevert, but was raced by lesser drivers, to little effect. In mid-69 it was converted to an F5000 and then back to an F3, as the K2A!

The Kitchmac was a modified McLaren M10B and Kitchiner later ran an M19 too.

#24 David McKinney

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 07:15

Originally posted by ensign14
how come Neil Corner was racing in a contemporary F1 race?

Why shouldn't he?
There has always been a lot of talk in historic racing circles that the stars wouldn't disgrace themselves in proper F1, so he no doubt took the opportunity to see for himself. I think the car was owned by fellow historic racer Colin Crabbe, who entered regular F1 races for two or three seasons, usually with Vic Elford as driver, and presumably with no objection from ensign14!

#25 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 08:47

Never discount Neil Corner's capabilities as a serious racing driver. In his prime he was supremely well wired up and could return very competitive times in almost anything he turned his hand to - ancient or modern. Above all he was - and is - one of the most competitiive personalities I have ever known.

There's a tremendous tendency in these days of drivers getting to F1 - and then never driving anything else until they're kicked out of it - or drivers ditto in the US Formulae - being specialised one-class runners. Never forget the versatility which was once required - and once possible - in reasonably high-class racing... While Corner - who made his money elsewhere - drove as an amateur, for top professional drivers such versatility made all the difference between earning reasonably well, and just chugging along on 'mere F1 retainers'. Times have changed.

DCN

#26 ensign14

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 09:06

No objection to Antique Automobiles from ensign14 - but maybe because that was before I was born ;)

No, it was surprising to me to discover that Neil Corner, whom I had always thought was solely an historic racer, had raced contemporary cars. What was (is?) his record in non-historic formulae? And how did his (and other entries in the Gran Premio - who was Bill Stone?) come about?

#27 2F-001

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 09:42

re: 'Antique Automobiles'...
After the Cooper-Mas, Colin Crabbe ran a McLaren for Elford too.
Then in '70 he gave Ronnie Peterson his break into F1 with a March 701 - was this some tie-up with the works?? (Peterson's long 'friendship' with March had already begun then through the prototype F3 drive the previous year)

#28 David McKinney

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 10:47

I realise my Corner post :| may have read as if I was belittling the man's prowess, which was certainly not my intention. I also could have mentioned his GT40 drives about the same time, but as I never saw any (nor the Jarama race, for that matter) I didn't feel competent to comment.

ensign14:
I imagine his entry came about in exactly the same way as did anyone's entry in any race in those days. You heard a race was on, applied to the organising club for entry-forms, filled them in, sent them off, received your acceptance, and loaded up the trailer. The days when 'F1 fans' could sit down at the start of the season and list the final entries for the last round of the year were far into the future. With most of the major teams not bothering with this particular race, there was probably also a worthwile financial incentive to show up.

Bill Stone was one of many promising young New Zealand drivers who came to Europe with a view to emulating the achievements of McLaren, Hulme and Amon. He never cracked it, but did a few races in a one-off FF March and IIRC an F2 McLaren M4A as well as the Brabham. To feed himself while furthering his career he took jobs with various racing teams, and was famously the first employee of March. He has remained involved with the construction and development side of racing on and off since and was, last I heard, running the European Minardi shop in the UK.

#29 2F-001

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 11:03

All in all then, a thoroughly interesting buch of people populating the grid at that Jarama race..
Gethin: winner of fastest-ever WC-GP;
Holland: long-time racer and the man who stuck a Lola in the lake at Mallory;
Lamplough and Corner: notables on the historic scene and guardians of many fine machines;
Dean: a Can-Am winner, alleged cigar-smuggler;
Jock Russell I know less about, (but remember him struggling with the rare Lotus 70 - interesting to us Lotus-types);
Stone: a place in history with March and, we now learn, involved with the last 'enthusiast' F1 team (?);
Oh, and Mosley.

#30 Gary C

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:18

...............just watched this programme again on Discovery Channel.................and it's still as bad as I thought originally. Incidentally (Cindy), I haven't heard about the car since the programme was made! Five years after the re-build, don't tell me it's ended up in the guyss garage AGAIN??

#31 Mondiale M85S

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 08:09

If you thought the actual programme was bad, you should have been present on the day, as i was......

My view of these type of tv programmes has altered dramatically. The "race" was indeed pathetic but the mechanic stuffing the car in the wall definitely wasn't in any script!

#32 Gary C

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:05

Another 4 years have passed....do we know anything of the car in the programme?

#33 Stephen W

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:53

Another 4 years have passed....do we know anything of the car in the programme?


The Lola was stuffed at Cholmondley last year (2012) and current owner Roger Dean has been rebuilding it ever since. Hoped to have it out towards the end of last year. There was a problem locating some bits but I am sure it will be back on the hills in the near future.


#34 alansart

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:46

The Lola was stuffed at Cholmondley last year (2012) and current owner Roger Dean has been rebuilding it ever since. Hoped to have it out towards the end of last year. There was a problem locating some bits but I am sure it will be back on the hills in the near future.


Roger lost it coming off the Bailey Bridge on one of his first runs in slightly damp conditions. The rear tyres suddenly found some grip which pitched the car into the straw bales. Alan Cox and myself were chatting to Roger in the lunch break and he was already on the look out for parts. Locating a new nose was thought to be a problem.

This is from 2011.

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#35 andyrp26

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:34

This Salvage Squad series can be found for your appreciation on U Tube. :well: