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Help needed with F5000 drivers


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#1 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 20:07

Here's one for the biography collectors - or for anyone with old US race programs. Island and I are still working away on a complete set of F5000 results and we've got as far as trying to identify all the F5000 drivers in the US series. Could anyone help out with dates of birth for any of the following:

Mark Alderson (Ecorse, Michigan)
Keith Averill
Bill Baker (Prismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931
Clive Baker (Torquay) - born in 1942
Doug Barrow (Riverside, CA) - born in 1943
Chuck Bartlebaugh (Rochester, MI)
Steve Behr
Brad Blankenship (Indianapolis, Indiana)
Michael Brockman (Orlando, Florida) - born in 1945
Gary Burke (Carmichael, CA)
Geoff Davie
Mike Davis (Indianapolis, Indiana)
Tony Dean - born in 1932
Dick DeJarld (Joliet, Illinois)
Syd Demovsky (Chicago, Illinois) - born in 1938
Mark Dillon (Minneapolis, MN)
Jim Dittemore (Redondo Beach, CA) - born in 1945
Bob Dugo
Bruce Eglinton (South Pasadena, CA) - born in 1938
Jack Eiteljorg (Englwood, Colorado) - born in 1939
Howie Fairbanks (St Paul, Minnesota) - born in 1935
Bob Ferro (Sherman Oaks, CA)
Maurizio Flammini
Warren Flickinger (Golden, Colorado) - born in 1947
Stuart Forbes-Robinson (Huntington Beach, CA)
Micky Fowler (Glendale, CA)
Dan Furey (Columbus, Ohio) - born in 1942
Nestor Garcia-Veiga (Santa Monica, CA)
Dan Gardner (Vacaville, CA) - born in 1936
John Gimbel (Oyster Bay, NY) - born in 1947
Ron Grable (Mountain View, CA)
Rodney Green (Aurora, Colorado)
Len Guneau (Hermosa Beach, CA) - born in 1937
Mike Hall
Butch Heneger
Ed Hinchcliff (Ypsilanti, MI) - born in 1945
Greg Hodges
Colin Hyams (Melbourne) - born in 1944
Don Inferrera (Oakland, CA) - born in 1935
Randy Johnston (Suitland, MD)
Dave Jordan (Cypress, CA)
Dick Kantrud (Waterton, MN)
Ed Kasprowicz
John Kendall or Kindal
Horst Kwech (Gurnee, Illinois) - born in 1937
Allan Lader (Gresham, OR) - born in 1938
Bob Lazier (Vail, Colorado)
John Martin
Frank Matich (Cremourne) - born in 1938
Gary Matthews (Fresno, CA)
Bob McGinty (Ontario, CA) - born in 1936
Dick Messier (Manchester, NH)
Lothar Motschenbacher (Beverley Hills, CA)
Bob Muir (Burwood) - born in 1942
Eddie O`Brien
Phil Palm (Anaheim, CA) - born in 1949
Tony Palumbo (Toledo, Ohio)
Jim Paul
Lou Pavesi (Los Altos Hills, CA)
Gregg Peterson (Sunnyvale, CA) - born in 1940
Steve Pieper (Alexandria, Virginia) - born in 1947
Garth Pollard
John Ransom (Portland, Oregon) - born in 1946
Micky Rupp
Chuck Sarich (McLean, Virginia) - born in 1944
Jim Sarich (McLean, Virginia) - born in 1948
Joseph Schultz (Buena Park, CA)
Doug Schulz (Barrington, IL)
William Schweiger (Glenwood, Illinois)
Josef Scott (Kansas City, MO)
Jim Sechser (St. Louis Park, MN)
Sandy Shepard (Denton, TX) - born in 1947
Richard Shirey (Huntington Beach, CA)
Gordon Smiley (Shawnee Mission, KS) - born in 1949
Carmon Solomone (Woodridge, Illinois)
Bob Stanford (Mars, PA) - born in 1940
Gene Stanton (Philadelphia, PA)
Max Stewart (Orange, NSW)
Fred Stout (St Louis, MO)
BJ Swanson (Elkhart, Indiana)
Tuck Thomas (Minneapolis, Minnesota)
Vic Todia
Mark Waco (Tarzana, CA)
Johnny Walker (Adelaide)
Bob West (Hollywood, CA)
Michael Yarbrough (Morrow, GA)
Gregg Young (Westport, Connecticut)

At the least, I guess, Smiley, Walker, Matich, Stewart, Martin and Flammini should be recorded somewhere but I've been unable to find them.

Many thanks

Allen

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#2 fines

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 20:53

Maurizio Flammini - born 1949 (source: Higham)
Bob Lazier (Vail, Colorado) - born Dec 22, 1938 (Johnson's Indy)
John Martin (Long Beach, CA) - born Mar 20, 1939 (USAC Yearbook)
Frank Matich (Cremourne) - born in 1938 (Higham says 1935)
Micky Rupp - born Jan 17, 1936 (Johnson's Indy)
Gordon Smiley (Shawnee Mission, KS) - born Apr 20, 1949, died May 15, 1982 (Johnson's Indy)

#3 ensign14

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 20:58

BJ Swanson died 10 August 1975. The sad story of his meteoric career is on 'Speeds Ultimate Price' thread from page 8.

#4 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 23:08

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Here's one for the biography collectors - or for anyone with old US race programs. Island and I are still working away on a complete set of F5000 results and we've got as far as trying to identify all the F5000 drivers in the US series. Could anyone help out with dates of birth for any of the following:

Bill Baker (Prismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931
Bob Ferro (Sherman Oaks, CA)
Gary Matthews (Fresno, CA)
Gordon Smiley (Shawnee Mission, KS) - born in 1949
BJ Swanson (Elkhart, Indiana)

At the least, I guess, Smiley, Walker, Matich, Stewart, Martin and Flammini should be recorded somewhere but I've been unable to find them.


Wow, Allen...you do ask some tough ones. There are some others I should be able to turn up, but it might take a bit. I definitely have some of these listed (though with the way things work...I can't vouch for accuracy. We've run into that a lot lately).

Gordon Smiley - b. Apr. 20, 1946

Bill Baker moved on to NASCAR Grand National West stock car racing where, sadly, he passed away after suffering a heart attack while at Sears Point International Raceway (I don't recall off-hand whether he was on track or in the pits. IIRC, he had just gotten out of his car after practice). I should be able to get a date of death, then perhaps DOB for him. And it's Pismo Beach.

And while no DOB for him, I can add that Bobby Ferro was an off-road racer. He was Rick Mears before Rick Mears :D

Gary Matthews (should have his DOB soon) also went on to race NASCAR Grand National West stock cars (like Baker). His cars were painted identically. Same paint scheme on his Chevrolet Laguna as on the Lola!.


Jim Thurman

#5 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 23:18

William "Bill" Baker, b. June 19, 1931, d. August 1978



Jim Thurman

#6 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 23:26

What about Bobby Brown? He currently resides in the NYC area, I believe he's a Chevy dealer in Long Island. Don't know his birth date, but I believe he is 62 and still damn fast!

Don't forget McRae, David Hobbs or Jody Scheckter...

#7 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 23:29

I only looked for birthdates:

Doug Barrow b. 22 February 1938
Chuck Bartlebaugh b. 6 April 1924
Syd Demovsky b. 27 November 1938
Jack Eiteljorg b. 21 August 1938
Warren Flickinger b. 16 April 1947
Dick Kantrud b. 23 February 1933
Allan Lader b. 3rd August 1938
Garth Pollard b. 12 September 1925 ?? Does this fit in with his career?
Vic Todia b. 3 August 1931
Mark Waco b. 7 February 1945

#8 Jim Thurman

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 00:50

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
I only looked for birthdates:


Richie,

Where do you find birthdates? I'm aware of the Social Security death records (thanks to you :up: ), but where do you find DOB?.


Jim Thurman

#9 FEV

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 04:31

Hi Allen,

Lothar "CanAm" Motschenbacher 19/11/1938

Mark Alderson 3/01/1956

Maurizio Flammini I think still is Octagon Motorsports' boss (maurizio.flammini@octagon.com)

Nestor Garcia-Veiga was Argentinian I had his DOB somewhere...

You can maybe reach Jim Dittemore here : JIM DITTEMORE AUTOMATIC TRANS, 1449 Aviation Blvd,
Redondo Beach CA 90278, (310) 372-8438

Bob Ferro (who as Jim said was a good Off-Road racer) still races in SCRA Sprints.

Stuart Forbes-Robinson could be the guy working at "Downtown Subaru" in Oakland, Ca. His Service Department phone number is 510-547-4436

At least Furey and Hinchcliff were still in TransAm a couple years ago but I don't have my SCCA Media Guides around...

Don Inferrera's nephew is John Anderson (director of Superservice Racing Team who runs a Pontiac in the NASCAR Southwest Tour)

I believe Lou Pavesi still does the odd vintage race and is in charge of the "Huffaker Vintage Car Registry", based in California (650) 948-5203

Did Tuck Thomas have a Real Estate company to finance his racing career ? If yes this might be our man : Tuck Thomas, TimberRidge Homes, 6345 Virginia Drive, Excelsior, MN 55331, Phone: 952 470-1210

Hope this is of any help
Frank

#10 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 06:48

Originally posted by David M. Kane
What about Bobby Brown? He currently resides in the NYC area, I believe he's a Chevy dealer in Long Island. Don't know his birth date, but I believe he is 62 and still damn fast!

Don't forget McRae, David Hobbs or Jody Scheckter...

David

As well as the 87 here, there are another 99 where I already have the DoB. In total, 186 drivers appeared in US F5000 from 1972 to 1976. The 1967-1971 period is still waiting to be transcribed.

Thanks to everyone for these. Please keep them coming. Richie - what is the source for yours?

Allen

#11 Barry Lake

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 15:42

Sounds a bit like the Aussie drivers might have fudged their ages a bit when racing in the USA in the 1970s.

Bob Muir, born Blayney, NSW, Australia, 29 November 1939. I asked him just a few weeks ago.

By the way, be careful not to be confused by the locations listed from yearbooks, media guides etc. These were (then) current residence of the drivers, not where they were born.

#12 Barry Lake

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 15:58

Originally posted by ensign14
BJ Swanson died 10 August 1975. The sad story of his meteoric career is on 'Speeds Ultimate Price' thread from page 8.


I think you will find that B J Swansoin crashed at Mid-Ohio on 10 August 1975, but died three days later in Lexington, Ohio, Wednesday 13 August 1975.

#13 Barry Lake

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 16:01

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Gordon Smiley - b. Apr. 20, 1946


Did Smiley fudge his age also?

I have him as born 20 April 1949, and aged 33 when he died.

#14 Barry Lake

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 16:18

Originally posted by Allen Brown
David

As well as the 87 here, there are another 99 where I already have the DoB. In total, 186 drivers appeared in US F5000 from 1972 to 1976. The 1967-1971 period is still waiting to be transcribed.


Allen

Do you have these in one list? Rather than on a web site where you have to search for them individually, that is. It makes heavy going for checking them - especially in cases where you don't know who you are looking for.

#15 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 17:53

Originally posted by Barry Lake
Do you have these in one list?

OK - you asked for it!

Tony Adamowicz (Culver City, CA) - born 02 May 1941
Mark Alderson (Ecorse, Michigan)
Bob Allen (Ripon, CA) - born 20 Jan 1939
Bruce Allison (Brisbane, AUS) - born 05 Jul 1953
Chris Amon - born 20 Jul 1943
Mario Andretti (Nazareth, Pennsylvania) - born 28 Feb 1940
Keith Averill
Bill Baker (Prismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931
Clive Baker (Torquay) - born in 1942
Skip Barber (Carlisle, MA) - born 16 Jan 1936
Doug Barrow (Riverside, CA) - born in 1943
Chuck Bartlebaugh (Rochester, MI)
Kevin Bartlett (Sydney) - born 25 May 1940
Steve Behr
Derek Bell (Chichester) - born 31 Oct 1941
John Benton (Chicago, Illinois) - born 30 May 1942
Roger Bighouse (Eastlake, OH) - born 18 Nov 1946
Brad Blankenship (Indianapolis, Indiana)
Bill Brack (Toronto) - born 26 Dec 1935
Michael Brayton (Anaheim, CA) - born 07 Jul 1943
Don Breidenbach (Oakland, CA) - born 30 Apr 1950
Merle Brennan (Reno, NV) - born 01 Aug 1927
John-David Briggs (Woodside, CA) - born 23 Apr 1950
Tony Brise - born 28 Mar 1952
Michael Brockman (Orlando, Florida) - born in 1945
Bob Brown (Hicksville, NY) - born 06 Oct 1939
Warwick Brown (Sydney) - born 24 Dec 1949
Gary Burke (Carmichael, CA)
John Cannon - born 21 Jun 1937
Chris Cook (Holland, Texas)
Geoff Davie
Mike Davis (Indianapolis, Indiana)
Tony Dean - born in 1932
Dick DeJarld (Joliet, Illinois)
Syd Demovsky (Chicago, Illinois) - born in 1938
Mark Dillon (Minneapolis, MN)
Jim Dittemore (Redondo Beach, CA) - born in 1945
Mark Donohue (Reading, Pennsylvania) - born 18 Mar 1937
Bob Dugo
James Dunkel (Rockford, Illinois) - born 17 Nov 1936
Steve Durst (Medford Lakes, NJ) - born 21 Oct 1941
Ron Dykes (Marina del Rey, CA) - born 20 Aug 1939
Bob Earl (Claremont, CA) - born 13 Jan 1950
Bruce Eglinton (South Pasadena, CA) - born in 1938
Jack Eiteljorg (Englwood, Colorado) - born in 1939
Howie Fairbanks (St Paul, Minnesota) - born in 1935
Ed Felter (Long Beach, CA) - born 13 Nov 1940
Dick Ferguson (Los Angeles, CA) - born 16 Mar 1950
Bob Ferro (Sherman Oaks, CA)
Robert Fischetti (Redondo Beach, CA) - born 26 Feb 1945
Maurizio Flammini - born in 1949
Warren Flickinger (Golden, Colorado) - born in 1947
George Follmer (Arcadia, CA) - born 27 Jan 1934
Elliot Forbes-Robinson (Denver, NC/La Crescenta, CA) - born 31 Oct 1943
Stuart Forbes-Robinson (Huntington Beach, CA)
Micky Fowler (Glendale, CA)
Dan Furey (Columbus, Ohio) - born in 1942
Nestor Garcia-Veiga (Santa Monica, CA)
Dan Gardner (Vacaville, CA) - born in 1936
Peter Gethin (London) - born 21 Feb 1940
John Gimbel (Oyster Bay, NY) - born in 1947
Ron Grable (Mountain View, CA)
Jerry Grant (Santa Ana, CA) - born 23 Jan 1935
Rodney Green (Aurora, Colorado)
Len Guneau (Hermosa Beach, CA) - born in 1937
John Gunn (Miami, Florida) - born 25 Jul 1939
Jim Gustafson (Bessemer, MI) - born 09 Apr 1947
James Gutfreund (Des Moines, IA) - born 10 Dec 1931
Mike Hall
Jerry Hansen (Long Lake, Minn) - born 23 Oct 1936
Larry Harley (Dallas, Texas) - born 22 Nov 1940
Hunter Harris (El Macero, CA) - born 13 Dec 1954
James Hawes (Carlsbad, CA)
Ludwig Heimrath (Scarborough, Ont) - born 11 Aug 1934
Butch Heneger
Ed Hinchcliff (Ypsilanti, MI) - born in 1945
David Hobbs (Rugby, Warwickshire) - born 09 Jun 1939
Greg Hodges
James Hunt - born 29 Aug 1947
Gus Hutchison (Dallas, Texas) - born 26 Apr 1937
Colin Hyams (Melbourne) - born in 1944
Don Inferrera (Oakland, CA) - born in 1935
Harry Ingle (Charlotte, South Carolina) - born 12 Nov 1943
Jean-Pierre Jarier - born 10 Jul 1946
Gordie Johncock (Phoenix, AZ) - born 05 Aug 1936
Randy Johnston (Suitland, MD)
Alan Jones - born 02 Nov 1946
Tom Jones (Eastlake, OH) - born 26 Apr 1943
Dave Jordan (Cypress, CA)
Dick Kantrud (Waterton, MN)
Jerry Karl (Manchester, PA) - born 29 Apr 1941
Ed Kasprowicz
John Kendall or Kindal
Arlon Koops (Denver, Colorado) - born 21 Jan 1939
John Korn (Novato, CA) - born 10 Aug 1931
Horst Kroll (Scarborough, Ont) - born 16 May 1936
Bert Kuehne (Waterloo, Canada) - born 19 Aug 1946
Horst Kwech (Gurnee, Illinois) - born in 1937
Allan Lader (Gresham, OR) - born in 1938
Bob Lazier (Vail, Colorado) - born 22 Dec 1938
Randy Lewis (Mountain View, CA) - born 19 Jul 1945
Lella Lombardi - born 26 Mar 1943
Brett Lunger (Wilmington, Delaware) - born 14 Nov 1945
John Martin (Long Beach, CA) - born 20 Mar 1939
Frank Matich (Cremourne) - born in 1938
Gary Matthews (Fresno, CA)
Bob McGinty (Ontario, CA) - born in 1936
Pat McGonegle (Cincinnati, OH) - born 17 Jan 1948
Skeeter McKitterick (Woodland Hills, CA) - born 04 Jul 1946
Larry McNeil (Worth, Illinois) - born 31 Aug 1945
Graham McRae (Wellington, NZ) - born 05 Mar 1940
Gordon Meffert (Waunakee, WI) - born 08 Oct 1948
Dick Messier (Manchester, NH)
Eddie Miller (Vail, Colorado) - born 17 Jan 1945
Rocky Moran (Arcadia, CA) - born 03 Feb 1951
John Morton (Torrance, CA) - born 17 Feb 1942
Mike Mosley (Brownsburg, IN) - born 13 Dec 1944
Lothar Motschenbacher (Beverley Hills, CA)
Bob Muir (Burwood) - born in 1942
Bob Nagel (Library, PA) - born 22 Aug 1924
Evan Noyes (Cedarville, Michigan) - born 03 Jan 1943
Eddie O`Brien
Jackie Oliver (Walton-on-Thames) - born 14 Aug 1942
Danny Ongais (Costa Mesa, CA) - born 21 May 1942
Phil Palm (Anaheim, CA) - born in 1949
Tony Palumbo (Toledo, Ohio)
Peter Papke (Los Angeles, CA) - born 05 Feb 1936
Chuck Parsons (Monterey, CA) - born 06 Feb 1924
Jim Paul
Lou Pavesi (Los Altos Hills, CA)
Gerre Payvis (Peoria, AZ) - born 12 Apr 1952
Gregg Peterson (Sunnyvale, CA) - born in 1940
Steve Pieper (Alexandria, Virginia) - born in 1947
Teddy Pilette - born 26 Jul 1942
Garth Pollard
Ed Polley (Inglewood, CA) - born 08 Oct 1938
Sam Posey (Sharon, Connecticut) - born 26 May 1944
Tom Pryce - born 11 Jun 1949
David Purley - born 26 Jan 1945
Gerard Raney (Redwood City, CA) - born 15 Aug 1940
John Ransom (Portland, Oregon) - born in 1946
Andy Ratcliffe (Santa Monica, CA) - born 22 Jan 1954
Brian Redman (Colne, Lancashire) - born 09 Mar 1937
Clay Regazzoni (Lugano) - born 05 Sep 1939
Lloyd Ruby (Wichita Falls, TX) - born 12 Jan 1928
Micky Rupp - born 17 Jan 1936
Johnny Rutherford (Fort Worth, Texas) - born 12 Mar 1938
Chuck Sarich (McLean, Virginia) - born in 1944
Jim Sarich (McLean, Virginia) - born in 1948
Jody Scheckter (East London, South Africa) - born 29 Jan 1950
Joseph Schultz (Buena Park, CA)
Doug Schulz (Barrington, IL)
Vern Schuppan (West Horsley, England) - born 19 Mar 1943
William Schweiger (Glenwood, Illinois)
Benny Scott (Long Beach, CA) - born 04 Feb 1945
Billy Scott (San Bernadino, CA) - born 10 Oct 1948
Josef Scott (Kansas City, MO)
Jim Sechser (St. Louis Park, MN)
Tony Settember (Penngrove, CA) - born 10 Jul 1930
Sandy Shepard (Denton, TX) - born in 1947
Richard Shirey (Huntington Beach, CA)
Bill Simpson (Los Angeles, CA) - born 14 Mar 1940
Gordon Smiley (Shawnee Mission, KS) - born in 1949 - born 20 Apr 1949
Tom Sneva (Spokane, Washington) - born 01 Jun 1948
Carmon Solomone (Woodridge, Illinois)
Bob Stanford (Mars, PA) - born in 1940
Gene Stanton (Philadelphia, PA)
Max Stewart (Orange, NSW)
Fred Stout (St Louis, MO)
BJ Swanson (Elkhart, Indiana)
Patrick Tambay - born 25 Jun 1949
Bill Tempero (Ft Collins, Colorado) - born 16 Jan 1944
Tuck Thomas (Minneapolis, Minnesota)
Vic Todia
Al Unser (Albuquerque, NM) - born 29 May 1939
Bobby Unser (Albuquerque, NM) - born 20 Feb 1934
Mark Waco (Tarzana, CA)
Johnny Walker (Adelaide)
Bob West (Hollywood, CA)
Eppie Wietzes (Thornhill, Ontario) - born 28 May 1938
Gary Wilson (Costa Mesa, CA) - born 13 Apr 1939
Jon Woodner (Berkeley, CA) - born 08 Apr 1944
Michael Yarbrough (Morrow, GA)
Gregg Young (Westport, Connecticut)

Actually 184, I can't count! Please note that I haven't yet added the ones contributed on this thread.

Allen

#16 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 21:37

Jim, Allen, the source is another site located with social security records at the suprisingly brilliant www.bored.com

go half way down & you'll see the Birthday Database & then click on that & it should be easy from there on - it links with the SSDI & is like that - 100% reliable.

If they're American, alive from 1951 & not hiding from the law they're there! If you know more than I, ie/ middle names, it really does help. :)

#17 Jim Thurman

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 22:34

Originally posted by Barry Lake


Did Smiley fudge his age also?

I have him as born 20 April 1949, and aged 33 when he died.


Must have Barry, this date (which I realize is different than those listed in annuals) came from Social Security records.


Jim Thurman

#18 Barry Lake

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 15:00

Wow! Great list Allen. I'll bet some time went into that.

But don't forget to make it known that the places shown are where they lived at the time, not where they were born.

Jim, thanks for confirmation of Gordon Smiley's birth date. I wish we had the same sort of access here; we could show up a few Aussie drivers as story tellers.

I not long ago approached the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport to ask if I could have birth dates from the licence applications of past drivers, but they told me they wouldn't give out such information as it was confidential.

Someone who should know later told me CAMS does not still have such records anyway.

It is very difficult information to obtain in Australia, and expensive, if you want to get a copy of a birth certificate to prove the person you're researching is, in fact, the one you've tracked down. It's not a practical proposition to do for a large number of subjects. I hope this improves in the future.

#19 Dave Ware

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 18:07

Hmm, Fred Stout was driving Formula Vee not too long ago and his son, Brad, has won two national titles and multiple pro titles in recent years. Don't know about Fred's birthday, though. If our Formula Vee mailing list was still active I'd post the question, but the list seems to have faded off...

Dave

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#20 Allen Brown

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 21:16

Originally posted by Barry Lake
Wow! Great list Allen. I'll bet some time went into that.

Barry

Island deserves all the credit for compiling the original results. Dawn Harrison, my IT-expert secretary, transcribed them all into a database and I'm now going through getting them ready for publication. Jim has volunteered to check them but I hope he hasn't given up on that idea as it was rather a long time ago!

Allen

#21 Jim Thurman

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:11

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Barry

Island deserves all the credit for compiling the original results. Dawn Harrison, my IT-expert secretary, transcribed them all into a database and I'm now going through getting them ready for publication. Jim has volunteered to check them but I hope he hasn't given up on that idea as it was rather a long time ago!


Allen,

Despite my rather full plate...no, I haven't forgotten (though by all rights, with the number of requests I'm working on, I should have forgotten something :D , but not yet).

Where/how can I access these? (I tried checking links on your website) If you need to send them, please do and I'll give them a look.

Thanks Island and Allen for your work :up:


Jim Thurman

#22 Jim Thurman

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:16

Originally posted by Barry Lake
Wow! Great list Allen. I'll bet some time went into that.

But don't forget to make it known that the places shown are where they lived at the time, not where they were born.

Jim, thanks for confirmation of Gordon Smiley's birth date. I wish we had the same sort of access here; we could show up a few Aussie drivers as story tellers.

I not long ago approached the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport to ask if I could have birth dates from the licence applications of past drivers, but they told me they wouldn't give out such information as it was confidential.

Someone who should know later told me CAMS does not still have such records anyway.


Which is a good reason why they told you they wouldn't give out the information!

Interesting that Smiley was three years older than listed. Normally the fudging on ages occurred when underaged drivers added years so they would be eligible for a license, most notably in the post-WWII cases like Troy Ruttman, Jim Rathmann, etc.


Jim Thurman

#23 Jim Thurman

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:19

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Jim, Allen, the source is another site located with social security records at the suprisingly brilliant www.bored.com

go half way down & you'll see the Birthday Database & then click on that & it should be easy from there on - it links with the SSDI & is like that - 100% reliable.

If they're American, alive from 1951 & not hiding from the law they're there! If you know more than I, ie/ middle names, it really does help. :)


Ok, now I'm officially scared. I'm not in there :eek:

I am alive from 1951, and last I checked, not hiding from the law.

(Pardon the gallows humor) I think I better check the SS records to make sure I haven't passed on.

Thanks Richie...good site.


Jim Thurman

#24 ensign14

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 23:18

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Interesting that Smiley was three years older than listed. Normally the fudging on ages occurred when underaged drivers added years so they would be eligible for a license, most notably in the post-WWII cases like Troy Ruttman, Jim Rathmann, etc.


Jim Thurman


Mos sapientibus - Gilles Villeneuve claimed to have been born in 1952, when he was in fact born in 1950, so no-one would think he was past it.

#25 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 March 2002 - 10:35

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Jim, Allen, the source is another site located with social security records at the suprisingly brilliant www.bored.com

go half way down & you'll see the Birthday Database & then click on that & it should be easy from there on - it links with the SSDI & is like that - 100% reliable.

If they're American, alive from 1951 & not hiding from the law they're there! If you know more than I, ie/ middle names, it really does help. :)

Richie

I've been running through this for the names you've given - it's a very useful web site (actually Anybirthday.com for anyone who hasn't tried it). For the rarer names that you've chosen, it's a good resource, especially as you can compare the birth ZIP code with the home towns lsited in programs. For example, Warren Flickinger lived in Golden, Colorado, and there is just one Warren Flickinger listed at Anybirthday.com and he was born in Golden, Colorado. That's good enought for me. Likewise Syd Demovsky, Jack Eiteljorg, Dick Kantrud and Allan Lader.

However, as ages were "adjusted" by so many drivers, I'm nervous about using it for Doug Barrow, Chuck Bartlebaugh, Garth Pollard, Vic Todia and Mark Waco. In these cases, either the age wan't a good batch or the birth town and home town were very different. For example, Bartlebaugh lived in Michigan but the only Charles or Chuck Bartlebaugh on Anybirthday.com was born in New York. With no birth year to compare, I can't run the risk that "Chuck" was a nickname and his first name might have been something completely different. The other danger, as Jim has discovered, is that their database is not complete.

Did you really use this for Doug Barrow? There are dozens of Doug Barrows on Anybirthday.com and the date you've given is five years out from the age he gave in programs. Or did you find this DoB somewhere else? Or did you find Barrow's middle name somewhere.

BTW for anyone trying to turn ZIP codes into towns, try this search page at the USPS site.

Allen

#26 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 March 2002 - 10:52

Thanks everyone

I'm now down to 76 names to find, most of whom are desparately obscure people. But I'm surprised nobody has birthdates for these:

Maurizio Flammini - born in 1949
Ron Grable (Mountain View, CA)
Horst Kwech (Gurnee, Illinois) - born in 1937
Frank Matich (Cremourne) - born in 1938
Max Stewart (Orange, NSW)
BJ Swanson (Elkhart, Indiana)
Johnny Walker (Adelaide)

Any last thoughts?

Allen

#27 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 24 March 2002 - 11:05

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Richie


Did you really use this for Doug Barrow? There are dozens of Doug Barrows on Anybirthday.com and the date you've given is five years out from the age he gave in programs. Or did you find this DoB somewhere else? Or did you find Barrow's middle name somewhere.


Allen


I did use it for Doug but if anybirthday.com is giving dozens, then I accept your wariness of it. TBH, I can't remember why I selected that date - I'm sure they must've been a valid reason in my brain!

#28 Jim Thurman

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Posted 25 March 2002 - 00:30

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Thanks everyone

I'm now down to 76 names to find, most of whom are desparately obscure people. But I'm surprised nobody has birthdates for these:

Maurizio Flammini - born in 1949
Ron Grable (Mountain View, CA)
Horst Kwech (Gurnee, Illinois) - born in 1937
Frank Matich (Cremourne) - born in 1938
Max Stewart (Orange, NSW)
BJ Swanson (Elkhart, Indiana)
Johnny Walker (Adelaide)


I have Swanson as Nov. 21, 1948. Let me dig around later tonight for a final re-check.

Cutter-Fendell have Matich b. 1935 (but the DOB's aren't the most accurate in that book).

Grable, I have to have around here somewhere...but, the question is where?

I might even have one for Kwech...that I know what to look in, but where is it?

I'm truly surprised that some of these haven't turned up.


Jim Thurman

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 March 2002 - 02:29

Max Stewart, 42 years and five days when he ran over the rear of Vern Schuppan's Elfin at Calder on March 19, 1977 at Calder and nosedived into the Armco. DOB then is March 14, 1935. Source - Racing Car News, April, 1977. Obituary by unknown author.

He was no friend of Frank Matich, who he called 'Frank Who' for many years. I'd be sure that Matich was born 1936 or 1937. I'll try to find it, but I would think it is listed somewhere by someone.

#30 Brian Lear

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Posted 25 March 2002 - 12:17

Johnny Walker - DOB 27th September 1943 (Source "Cars and Drivers Australia #3" - B.Lake)

Bruce Allison - DOB 5th July 1954 (Source "Cars and Drivers Australia #3" - B.Lake)
Allen - Your list shows 5th July 1953. Barry may have an update?

#31 Barry Lake

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Posted 25 March 2002 - 13:14

Brian

I knew I had birth dates on some of the F5000 drivers somewhere - but I was looking for them in Chequered Flag.

Can't help on Allison's correct year. I would have asked him for the date back then, but it is possible there was a typing mistake at typesetting stage.

Someone told me recently they'd bumped into Bruce somewhere, but I haven't seen him for years.

#32 Allen Brown

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Posted 25 March 2002 - 15:02

Brian, Barry

My date for Allison would have come from Higham or from Island. I'll check when I get home.

Allen

#33 ReWind

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 11:22

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Thanks everyone

I'm now down to 76 names to find, most of whom are desparately obscure people. But I'm surprised nobody has birthdates for these:

Maurizio Flammini - born in 1949
(...)

Any last thoughts?

Allen

Knowledgeable Austrian journalist Günther Wiesinger recently answered a query of mine and told me - and all readers of Swiss weekly "MOTORSPORT aktuell" - that Maurizio Flammini was born on 29th November 1949 in Rome (Roma, to be correct). So the Italian will be celebrating his 55th birthday in the next few days.

#34 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 14:15

Matich was born in 1935... I have a note somewhere of the date, but not here.

#35 275 GTB-4

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 09:43

I hate to be picky, and I did enjoy Geography in school.....so....

Bill Baker (Prismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931

shouldn't that read...

Bill Baker (Pismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931 :up:

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 09:57

Well, if it comes to that, 'Cremourne' should be 'Cremorne'...

#37 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 14:58

Clive Baker (GB) born 1943
Stuart Forbes-Robinson, born in Australia
Mike Fowler, born 1950
Nestor García Veiga, born Arrecifes (Argentina) 27 March 1945
Greg Hodges, from San francisco
Horst Kroll, born in Germany
Lothar Motschenbacher, born Köln (Germany) 19 November 1938

That's what I have in my own archives.

#38 Keir

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 16:54

Dickie Smothers, anyone??

#39 harryglorydays

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 17:52

Let's not forget David Earl "Swede" Savage

B: August 26, 1946
D: July 2, 1973

I saw him at the 1969 Sebring L&M Continental where he outqualified Mario for the pole in his Eagle-Plymouth.

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#40 Twin Window

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 21:03

Unlike some of the other drivers mentioned who took years off their ages, Mike Thackwell added years in order to appear old enough to compete.

Oh, and he raced on a forged driving licence. It was the worst bit of dodgy paperwork I've ever seen, and how he ever got by signing-on anywhere I'll never know.

As of the middle of 1982, he still hadn't passed his test... :lol:

#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 22:34

Some missing from the list...

John Edmonds (or was it 'Jon'?)
Jon Davison
Terry Hook
Rob Butcher
Barry Singleton
Ivan Tighe
Chris Milton
Ian Adams
Alan Hamilton
John Briggs
Chris Middleton
Chas Talbot
Garrie Cooper
Peter Edwards
John McCormack
Gary Dumbrell
Colin Trengove
Alfredo Costanzo
Bronwyn Taylor
John Goss
Ken Shirvington
Dave Powell
Graeme Lawrence
Ken Smith
Frank Radisich
Stephen Fraser
Gil Cameron
John Leffler
Leo Geoghegan
Howie Sangster
Don O'Sullivan
Mike Hailwood
John Harvey
Robbie Francevic
Frank Gardner
John Surtees

And where did Sue Ransom drive F5000?

#42 Twin Window

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 22:49

Mike Hailwood: Born April 2nd, 1940 in Great Milton, Birmingham, England. Died March 23rd, 1981 in Birmingham, England (tragically along with his daughter IIRC, on their way to the fish & chip shop)

Frank Gardner: Born October 1st, 1930 in Sydney, NSW, Australia.

John Surtees: Born February 11th, 1934 in Tatsfield, Surrey, England.

#43 Allen Brown

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:35

Originally posted by ReWind
Knowledgeable Austrian journalist Günther Wiesinger recently answered a query of mine and told me - and all readers of Swiss weekly "MOTORSPORT aktuell" - that Maurizio Flammini was born on 29th November 1949 in Rome (Roma, to be correct). So the Italian will be celebrating his 55th birthday in the next few days.

Thanks ReWind! :clap:

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
I hate to be picky, and I did enjoy Geography in school.....so....

Bill Baker (Prismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931

shouldn't that read...

Bill Baker (Pismo Beach, CA) - born in 1931 :up:

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Well, if it comes to that, 'Cremourne' should be 'Cremorne'...

Thanks gentlemen. As I'm not a native of either country in question, this is exactly the sort of help I need.

Phew - I'm not keeping up!

Allen

#44 Allen Brown

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:02

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Some missing from the list...

John Edmonds (or was it 'Jon'?)
Jon Davison
Terry Hook
etc
etc
Robbie Francevic
Frank Gardner
John Surtees

And where did Sue Ransom drive F5000?

Good list Ray, but the list I published was of the drivers who appeared in the US series.

Sue Ransom? Was she woman who drove the ex-Leffler Bowin P8?

Allen

#45 ghinzani

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 12:22

Originally posted by Twin Window
Unlike some of the other drivers mentioned who took years off their ages, Mike Thackwell added years in order to appear old enough to compete.

Oh, and he raced on a forged driving licence. It was the worst bit of dodgy paperwork I've ever seen, and how he ever got by signing-on anywhere I'll never know.

As of the middle of 1982, he still hadn't passed his test... :lol:


This story needs filling out - how??!! and what means did he use to get to races? and if it was ok to drive at 16 in NZ why the need to lie when he was 17 in the UK?

#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 13:07

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Good list Ray, but the list I published was of the drivers who appeared in the US series.

Sue Ransom? Was she woman who drove the ex-Leffler Bowin P8?


Well, of course, John Leffler had two Bowin P8s...

One was the F5000 he bought from Bob Jane and converted to ANF2 because his original, another ANF2 car, had been damaged at the first (or second?) race meeting at which he entered it.

The other was the ANF2 car converted to F5000 when he had enough of ANF2. Something like that...

Anyway, Sue drove the ANF2 car at Wanneroo Park. I think this is the reason she is in the list... right? Now, last time I checked, Wanneroo Park wasn't in the US, so I'm wondering about how expansive this list has to be.

Of course, Sue would like to have driven F5000... of course. But the sponsorship wasn't there. Apparently she had the offer of a regular FFord drive, but wasn't going to take that. As this was discussed around the dinner table one night, her then-husband... and former Ferrari P4 driver... Bill Brown quietly said, "Not a good enough pose for you, is it Sue?"

#47 David McKinney

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 13:18

Originally posted by ghinzani
This story needs filling out - how??!! and what means did he use to get to races? and if it was ok to drive at 16 in NZ why the need to lie when he was 17 in the UK?

It was actually legal to drive in NZ at 15 - but Thackwell was resident in Australia at that time. Or maybe even the UK

#48 WGD706

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 00:24

What about Dick Smothers (of the Smothers Brothers)?

#49 Jim Thurman

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 04:45

I mentioned it was Pismo Beach earlier in the thread.

How is it you make a link to an individual post (versus thread?) :D

#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 04:54

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
.....How is it you make a link to an individual post (versus thread?)


Like this:

http://forums.atlasf...&postid=1856556

Cruel, eh?

What you do is select a word or two from the post that will stand out, put them in search with the poster's name, and select "Show results as posts"... then click only on the post, not on the thread when that comes up... and bingo!

Now... go hunt down and find the Smothers post and see how you get on...