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#1 Barry Lake

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Posted 31 March 2002 - 14:10

Prompted by my own question and Richie Jenkins' reply, regarding correct date of Silvio Moser's death, I contacted Moser's former mechanic Beat Schenker.

His reply regarding that subject, I have posted on that thread.

But Beat included the following material regarding the Moser cars he is restoring.

I thought it was the sort of problem that would inspire TNF regulars, so am posting it here.

There were photos with the original message he sent me. I have cut and pasted it here but the photos will need to be posted osme other way. If someone would like to post tyhem, I will forward Beat's message

Barry Lake

________________________________________________________


I working all days nine hours and make the site on my free time, also the restoration of two Formulas one from Silvio. The idea is to documenting the full carrier, I can to this only from 1968 (tree races on 1967) to the end 1974, also the accident. I think to find a person able to make the time before, bath I have to wait the finish of his political engagement. You can see that’s my English it’s not the best. So I need a traducer, so the English part is always a little in retard.

May by you cant help my on a other problem about a Brabham BT24 – 3 sold to the States as a original, you will find the story above. I have asked Frank Williams the date for contact Mr. John Muller and Mr. Dewar Thomas, without respond.

This email from Frank Williams says the reason for this request.


Dear Mr Schenker Frank Williams has now had a reply to his request
regarding the BT24/3 and BT 26/1 and I attach the reports of each. Robin
Herd wrote these accounts, having first spoken to Peter Kerr and John
THompson, as well as John Muller in New Zealand. I hope they are useful.
Kind Regards, Serena Sissons Office of Frank Williams

BT 24/3



This is the works Brabham-Repco F1 car driven by Jochen at Spain and Monaco and by Gurney at Zandvoort in the 1968 World Championship. After the introduction of the BT26 at Zandvoort driven by Jochen, BT 24/3 became the Team Spare Car until sold (?) to Kurt Ahrens who drove it at Nurburgring on August 4th 1968.



This car was modified by John Muller to take the 2½ litre DFW commissioned by Frank Williams for the 1968/9 Tasman series. The engine is referred to as the DFW presumably because of the link with Frank Williams.



In this car the sub-frames were retained as on the Repco installation and my input was confined purely to discussions with John about the installation procedure since little re-design was needed. John worked his passage home to New Zealand with the car.



His second mechanic in the series was Dewar Thomas. Dewar subsequently built and was the first test-driver (without my knowledge) of the 712, the monocoque of which I seem to remember FW becoming acquainted with as hand baggage between Sao Paulo and London and on return.



BT 24/3 is next recorded as having been driven by Silvio Moser at Monaco on June 8th 1969 – presumably with a 3 litre DFV. It was subsequently raced by him at Zandvoort, France, Oulton Park, Monza, Canada, USA and Mexico.



The key point that is relevant is that this is indeed a Piers Courage DF Brabham, but it is the Tasman car not the subsequent F1 car. If Beat Schenker bought this BT 24/3 directly from FW then it is indeed the “true” BT 24/3.





BT 26/1




This is the David Bridges 1968 Brabham-Repco F1 car purchased by Frank Williams for Piers to drive in the 1969 World Championship – I assume it was BT 26/1. It was modified quite significantly in the cellar of Keith Leighton’s father’s garage in Earls Barton some five miles east of Northampton. John Thompson did the manufacturing work and I did the design. There was considerable unsolicited advice that I should not mount the engine solidly but retain the sub-frame since (it was argued) the Lotus 49 did not handle well because of its solid mounting of the DFV. Since my M7 McLaren had won its first two races in 1968 and finished second in the World Championship I was not inclined to agree and I still remember the moment when John and I actually took a saw to the sub-frames.



Both BT 24/3 and BT7 26/1 used Hewland DG 300 gearboxes.



The enquiries ask for the design drawings of the installation and in talking about the car to John T last week he was adamant that he threw the cigarette packet away. I feel this is a little unfair, but the bottom line is that the design drawings no longer exist.



Its first finish was in its second race at Silverstone and its first World Championship points in its fourth race into second place at Monaco.



John’s recollection of the first race at Brands Hatch is heightened as much by the memory of FW’s request for him to collect the prize money (about £2,500) – never having seen so much money in his life before – as it is by his subsequent delivery of the money to FW in a flat in London.



I hope You can also find same ware tats can help my also in all other questions.



With regards

Beat Schenker



Concerns: The Brabham Repco / Ford Cosworth BT24 - 3 Formula 1 racing car.



My name is Beat Schenker and I was Silvio Moser’s mechanic from 1968 until his death in 1974. I was also responsible for the Brabham Ford BT24 - 3, which I personally picked up on May 14th, 1969 from Mr. Frank Williams’ shop at Slough, England, to race at Monte Carlo on May 18th, 1969.







The car was owned by the “Silvio Moser Racing Team SA” (joint-stock company), where I was also the administrator director. At the end of the 1969 season, the formula 1 rules were changed so that adaptation changes were no longer accepted, so we used a few parts from the Brabham to build the Bellasi Ford F1 - 70, and the rest of the car was sold to Mrs. Moser at the end of 1971, since Tom Wheatcroft was only interested in buying the Bellasi. Since then the Brabham has been kept in Mrs. Moser storage room at home. It is common practice in Switzerland to do a separation of property between two people before the marriage, especially if there is a company involved or there is difference between the parts. The Mosers also separated in 1969.

Mrs. Moser and myself have decided to restore the BT24 - 3 around 1990, which has taken several years since I work 9 hours a day and I do this only on my spare time. At that time we started looking for an engine and the missing parts.










Photograph found before Easter 2001, taken around 1997/98

Photograph of the BT24 – 3 frame taken in 1992, before I started with the restoration.






Among others, I have contacted Mr. Frank Williams, Mr. David McLaughlin from Force, Mr. Tom Wheatcroft and Mr. Heini Mader. Mr. Mader himself sold us a Cosworth DFV engine in 1992. In 1995 Mrs. Moser, (today Mrs. Venco), buys again from Mr. Tom Wheatcroft the Bellasi, always with the intention to restore it to mint functional condition.

In 1999, I was called by the current owners of the Brabham BT6 – 17, the Formula Junior car from 1963, on which Silvio won the “Temporada” (Season), in Argentina in 1964, asking for photographs and data on this car. When they found out we still owned the Formula 1 car, they were very surprised since they had seen an advertisement at the “Classic & Sports Car” magazine from June 1999 where the BT24 - 3 was offered for sale.

I then found Mr. John B. Dimmer from Tacoma WA as the new owner of this supposedly BT24 - 3 and I got in touch with him. Mr. Dimmer has written to me saying he has the “purchase document” from Mr. Pierre de Siebenthal buying the car from Mr. Moser’s heirs.



These are the facts he sent me:




01.09.1988

Sold by Pierre de Siebenthal to Nick Soprano’s “Motor Classic Corp” at White Plains, NY


12.12.1989

Sold by Nick Soprano to Ernest A. Topran at Bethany, CT


22.06.1999

Sold to John B. Dimmer at Tacoma, WA with the help of Nick Soprano









This car must have been born between 1975 and 1988, possibly modifying a Brabham BT23, mounting a motor based on the Repco 620 engine block (RB620-E3C) and the heads from the Repco 740 (RB640-L48). A similar solution was used by Jack Brabham at the beginning of 1967 on the BT19 frame. I have also found a person who has seen this replica from the BT24 - 3 at Mr. Siebenthal’s shop (Edi Wyss ex. McLaren), with a green body, but there was no mention of Silvio Moser at the time.

What I cannot understand, seeing the results of the car in the different competitions, that at least the first customer or prospective customer would not have doubts about the fact that the car was restored back to its original state, regardless of history and modifications or improvements. This “original” car had little to do with the result from 1967, since it was built in 1968, and during the four races run with the Repco motor, the only result obtained was a 12th position at Nürburgring. The least the prospective buyers could do was to get in touch with Mrs. Moser to confirm the sale, if it was ever done. Mrs. Moser could have easily been contacted, since she has always remained (and still lives), at the same address, and her full name still is and as always remains listed in the Lugano and Swiss telephone directory.

Another fact that raises doubts, is that the best results were obtained with the Ford Cosworth DFW and DFV, and at that time there were many of these Cosworth engines available. The only reason I believe they restored this replica to the original Repco engine version, is that there is plenty of information available about that BT24 Repco version, whereas there is no information regarding the BT24 Ford Cosworth.



Brabham BT24-3 Results from the original car


I suppose this car was born due to the problems with the new Repco 860 Motor during the South African GP on January 1st 1968. Since the first two Brabhams had already been sold, a new car was necessary to guarantee Jochen Rindt’s participation to all GPs, (main source, Book title: Tauranac Story by M. Lawrence).
Some sources say that the car had been built earlier, in 1967. However, the delivery of the two BT24 - 1 and 2, only after the South African GP from 1968 to the new owners, (Basil van Rooyen ZA and Sam Tingle ZW), could have only happened if there was actually a third car in existence.

I have found an article from Mr. John Blunsden from POWERSLIDE (Swiss German magazine) from June 1968, where the Brabham BT24 – 3 is mentioned for the first time. Unfortunately, Mr. Blunsden does not remember whether this article has also been published on any other English language magazine. This article on the Spanish GP, the BT24 is described as a newly built car, differing from its two predecessors in the gear box used, a Hewland FG400 instead of the usual DG300.

Then the car takes part on the following races using the Repco 740 Motor:


05.12.1968

Spanish GP with Jochen Rindt, retired due to motor problems.







05.26.1968

Monaco GP with Jochen Rindt, retired with an exit at the Mirabeaux. (Silvio and I were witnesses watching the race from the old station).


06.23.1968

Dutch GP with Dan Gurney, retired due to exit on wet racetrack.







08.04.1968

Germany GP with Kurt Ahrens, qualified 12th (best result of this car with the Repco engine).









During 1968 the frame was purchased by Mr. Frank Williams, and it was modified by Mr. John Muller with the help of Dewar Thomas on suggestion of Robin Herd so as to install the Ford Cosworth DFW engine (source: Frank Williams / Robin Herd). The Williams Team participated to the 1969 Tasmania Cup with Mr. Piers Courage obtaining the following results:


01.04.1969

New Zealand GP in Pukehohe, 3rd place


01.11.1969

Levin to Levin GP, 2nd place


01.18.1969

Lady Wigram Trophy at Wigram, 4th place


01.25.1969

Terentoga International at Terentoga, 1st place


02.02.1969

Australian GP at Lakeside, retired (accident)


02.09.1969

Warwick Farm at Warwick Farm, retired (accident)


02.16.1969

Sandown Park Cup at Sandown Park, retired due to transmission problem.




Mr. Piers Courage finishes overall on the 3rd place.







05.14.1969

Silvio Moser Racing Team SA (with myself as administrator and mechanic) purchases and picks up the car on May 14th 1969 including the Ford Cosworth DFV 802 engine, from Mr. Frank Williams at Slough GB and took part at the following races with Mr. Silvio Moser as driver:


05.18.1969

Monaco GP, retired due to broken transmission joint.


06.21.1969

Holland GP, retired due to motor problems (loss of power)


07.06.1969

France GP, 7th place


08.16.1969

Gold Cup at Oulton Park, 10th place


08.24.1969

St.Ursanne – Les Rangiers uphill race Swiss championship, 1st place.


08.31.1969

Ollone – Villars uphill race European championship, 2nd place overall, 1st place single-seater.


09.07.1969

Italian GP, retired due to fuel supply problems


09.20.1969

Canadian GP, retired due to accident


10.05.1969

USA GP, 6th place


10.19.1969

Mexican GP, 11th place (only race run with a different engine from our DFV 802, I think is was DFV 806 o 809)










Please refer to my home page (also in English) www.silviomoser.ch , (the Italian version is the most complete one to date).

In April 2000, Mr. John B. Dimmer took this vehicle to Adelaide where it was driven by Mr. Jack Brabham. Two ex mechanics from Brabham, Bob Illitch and Ian Lees have inspected this vehicle and have confirmed that it was in fact an original BT24. I believe this is difficult to understand as seen in the photographs.





Photos above from “Motor Classic Corp”, sent to an American client in 1996.

Photo on the right from Mr. Dimmer’s Car, I have found it in the net.



Observe rear end of the frame, drive shafts, petrol tanks, pedals, instruments panel and constructors plate.













Cockpit Brabham Repco BT24 - 1

Brabham Repco BT24 – 2 (maybe model 1) at Goodwood 1999









Sunday morning at Mexico 1969, the Brabham Ford BT24 – 3 and myself.







Since April 4th, 2001 I have a letter from Mr. Ron Tauranac where he states that Jack Brabham does not believe this car in the US is an original BT24, “he said the car he drove in Adelaide did not seem to him to be an original BT24, rather a collection of pieces”.

In spite of all this, the original BT24 - 3 was picked up by myself in person on May 14th, 1969 from Frank Williams, and since that date on, it has always been in my hands with the approval of Mr. Silvio Moser and later on Silvio’s widow, therefore I am quite sure the two of them have made a mistake. The only other persons with the necessary knowledge to recognize the car are: Mr. John Muller, Dewar Thomas, eventually Mr. Robin Herd and Mr. Frank Williams.



I am appealing to the press with the intent of getting the necessary help in the research of possible persons that still remember the facts or to find the origin of the materials used to perform this hoax.











Regarding the car in USA, the “Historic Vehicle Identity Form” from the FIA makes no mention of the fact that it was modified to install the Ford Cosworth in place of the Repco engine and therefore its restoration, as if the later Ford Cosworth version had never existed. Without these facts, it cannot be considered a complete documentation.







Furthermore, I will be very happy to receive any kind of information or additional photographic material regarding Mr. Silvio Moser’s career.

Unfortunately, I do not have many pictures on some of the periods of his career, such as the Brabham BT24 - 3, I have many pictures during the Monaco GP but for the rest of the races we have little material. Even the photographs from Mexico were taken from magazines of that time. I am specially interested in photographs of this car prior to the 1969 Monte Carlo GP.

In addition, I am very interested in finding photographs from the car used by Mr. Jack Brabham with the aerodynamic body at Monza 1967 during the practice session.

I thank you very much in advance for any help you can give us.

Yours sincerely

Beat Schenker



PS:

Please find below my address and telephone number for more information do not hesitate to contact me.



Mr. Beat Schenker

Via Vignola 14

CH 6900 Lugano

Switzerland

Tel. +41 91 971 61 29 (Swiss evening hours) or E-mail info@silviomoser.ch

(German and Italian OK, I have some problems in English)

____________________________________________________________

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#2 David M. Kane

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Posted 31 March 2002 - 15:07

After John Thompson left McLaren he set up his own shop. One of his projects was building the first monocoque for Ferrari. Does anyone
know what some of his other project were after that?

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 31 March 2002 - 16:11

Barry,
Fascinating stuff.
I take it that John Muller and Pete Kerr have been contacted, directly or indirectly, but not Dewar Thomas? Last I heard he was still in Auckland - perhaps someone closer than I am might have contact details?

#4 Doug Nye

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Posted 31 March 2002 - 19:28

I am very interested to hear all this - in this kind of detail. I have previously been in contact with Beat Schenker but he was nowhere near as detailed - nor as intelligible to me - in his references to BT24-3. Now , thanks to you Barry, I can understand where he was really coming from. Equally, I know the rival US owner John Dimmer and I am convinced that he would have bought the car that he bought in totally good faith. He and his chaps have also made a very good job of restoring and preparing the car. However, there is one name in the provenance chain of his car which is not a good one to see in such cases ... and it is not Mr Schenker's...nor is it Nick Soprano's.....

DCN

#5 Barry Lake

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 03:06

To be honest, I am too busy with other projects at the moment to sit and analyse this subject - and there are people here far more knowledgeable and well-researched in this area. I have passed it on without delving too deeply.

What I see here is a man who is making a very serious attempt at compiling information on Silvio Moser, his career and his cars, as well as restoring the cars and compiling their history as accurately as possible.

So The Nostalgia Forum and its experts have much to offer him, while he also - because oif his direct involvement with Moser - seems capable of adding to the knowledge of the serious researchers who post here.

In the short term, I am receiving messages from my ISP that e-mails to Beat are being returned to me. That, and the language difficulty, have me a little confused as to exactly where we are.

Beat's latest e-mail to me, however, indicates that Beat has now seen this thread, and the forum, and seems quite excited at the prospect of having access to English language magazines such as are in the hands of (he says, from what he has seen here) David McKinney and Milan Fistonic. This is in order to compile the complete racing hiustory of Silvio Moser.

I know Milan, for one, works long hours in his business and then spends a lot of time doing research for others (including myself). Probably most of us are in the same boat. On the other hand, this doesn't have to be done overnight.

I have the feeling that Beat Schenker feels like a man who has suddenly discovered gold!

I believe this has been a very fortunate meeting of minds, with the potential to put a few pieces of history "right".

I am looking forward to watching it evolve.

#6 Barry Lake

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 03:08

By the way, if someone can help with the posting of Beat's photos into the material above, please let me know and I will pass them on.

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 03:42

You can do that easily, Barry... you can even add them into your original post if you want...

Just activate your 10 megs of webspace... it's so easy you really should be doing it. PM bira and get the thing set up, then I'll e.mail you the details... okay?

I mean to say, if it wasn't so easy, would I be able to do it?

#8 Brian Lear

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 13:07

Interesting that Allens 'OldRacingCars' site lists BT24-3 as residing in Switzerland, and
BT24-3/R (for Replica?) in USA

#9 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 16:01

For your information, Beat Schenker runs a very nice Silvio Moser website:
http://www.silviomoser.ch
Beat has also helped me a lot with 1964 F2-races and the 1964 Temporada.

Stefan

#10 Roger Clark

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 18:18

I suppose this car was born due to the problems with the new Repco 860 Motor during the South African GP on January 1st 1968. Since the first two Brabhams had already been sold, a new car was necessary to guarantee Jochen Rindt’s participation to all GPs, (main source, Book title: Tauranac Story by M. Lawrence).
Some sources say that the car had been built earlier, in 1967. However, the delivery of the two BT24 - 1 and 2, only after the South African GP from 1968 to the new owners, (Basil van Rooyen ZA and Sam Tingle ZW), could have only happened if there was actually a third car in existence.



The motor Sport report of the 1967 Italian Grand Prix said that Brabham had a spare car. BT24-3, there.

#11 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 03 April 2002 - 03:58

This item appeared in Track Topics in the May 8, 1969 edition of Motoring News.

BRABHAM BT24 FOR MOSER

Although the Charles Vogele Racing Team had hoped to buy Swiss driver Silvio Moser a McLaren M7A for Formula One this year, the non-availability of such a machine has persuaded them to go to Brabham again. They have purchased from Frank Williams the Brabham BT24 used by Piers Courage in the Tasman Series. This car - which was formerly a works machine built at the start of 1968 - has been converted to take a Ford engine and Moser should debut the car at Monaco. Last season he raced an ex-works Brabham BT20 Repco in World Championship events and prior to that a Cooper Maserati although he never featured prominently in the results.

#12 fines

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Posted 03 April 2002 - 18:49

Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
For your information, Beat Schenker runs a very nice Silvio Moser website:
http://www.silviomoser.ch

... and what a wonderful site this is! I especially loved his story about his all-nighter in the Watkins Glen "pit stall", when suddenly the BRM engineering staff came spying, taking dimensions of all rival cars thinking they were all alone (presumably, they didn't care too much for the Moser Brabham...). Beat's wonderfully dry and sarcastic comment: "The next year (1970), BRM made a noticeable improvement in form..." :lol: :lol: :rotfl:

#13 Roger Clark

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Posted 03 April 2002 - 21:34

THese are the pictures sent by Beat Schenker to Barry LAke. I have edited them into Barry's original post so you can see Mr Schemker's caption. i hope I have them in the right place!

Concerns: The Brabham Repco / Ford Cosworth BT24 - 3 Formula 1 racing car.



My name is Beat Schenker and I was Silvio Moser’s mechanic from 1968 until his death in 1974. I was also responsible for the Brabham Ford BT24 - 3, which I personally picked up on May 14th, 1969 from Mr. Frank Williams’ shop at Slough, England, to race at Monte Carlo on May 18th, 1969.


Posted Image




The car was owned by the “Silvio Moser Racing Team SA” (joint-stock company), where I was also the administrator director. At the end of the 1969 season, the formula 1 rules were changed so that adaptation changes were no longer accepted, so we used a few parts from the Brabham to build the Bellasi Ford F1 - 70, and the rest of the car was sold to Mrs. Moser at the end of 1971, since Tom Wheatcroft was only interested in buying the Bellasi. Since then the Brabham has been kept in Mrs. Moser storage room at home. It is common practice in Switzerland to do a separation of property between two people before the marriage, especially if there is a company involved or there is difference between the parts. The Mosers also separated in 1969.

Mrs. Moser and myself have decided to restore the BT24 - 3 around 1990, which has taken several years since I work 9 hours a day and I do this only on my spare time. At that time we started looking for an engine and the missing parts.

Posted Image



Photograph found before Easter 2001, taken around 1997/98

Posted Image

Photograph of the BT24 – 3 frame taken in 1992, before I started with the restoration.






Among others, I have contacted Mr. Frank Williams, Mr. David McLaughlin from Force, Mr. Tom Wheatcroft and Mr. Heini Mader. Mr. Mader himself sold us a Cosworth DFV engine in 1992. In 1995 Mrs. Moser, (today Mrs. Venco), buys again from Mr. Tom Wheatcroft the Bellasi, always with the intention to restore it to mint functional condition.

In 1999, I was called by the current owners of the Brabham BT6 – 17, the Formula Junior car from 1963, on which Silvio won the “Temporada” (Season), in Argentina in 1964, asking for photographs and data on this car. When they found out we still owned the Formula 1 car, they were very surprised since they had seen an advertisement at the “Classic & Sports Car” magazine from June 1999 where the BT24 - 3 was offered for sale.

I then found Mr. John B. Dimmer from Tacoma WA as the new owner of this supposedly BT24 - 3 and I got in touch with him. Mr. Dimmer has written to me saying he has the “purchase document” from Mr. Pierre de Siebenthal buying the car from Mr. Moser’s heirs.



These are the facts he sent me:




01.09.1988

Sold by Pierre de Siebenthal to Nick Soprano’s “Motor Classic Corp” at White Plains, NY


12.12.1989

Sold by Nick Soprano to Ernest A. Topran at Bethany, CT


22.06.1999

Sold to John B. Dimmer at Tacoma, WA with the help of Nick Soprano



Posted Image


This car must have been born between 1975 and 1988, possibly modifying a Brabham BT23, mounting a motor based on the Repco 620 engine block (RB620-E3C) and the heads from the Repco 740 (RB640-L48). A similar solution was used by Jack Brabham at the beginning of 1967 on the BT19 frame. I have also found a person who has seen this replica from the BT24 - 3 at Mr. Siebenthal’s shop (Edi Wyss ex. McLaren), with a green body, but there was no mention of Silvio Moser at the time.

What I cannot understand, seeing the results of the car in the different competitions, that at least the first customer or prospective customer would not have doubts about the fact that the car was restored back to its original state, regardless of history and modifications or improvements. This “original” car had little to do with the result from 1967, since it was built in 1968, and during the four races run with the Repco motor, the only result obtained was a 12th position at Nürburgring. The least the prospective buyers could do was to get in touch with Mrs. Moser to confirm the sale, if it was ever done. Mrs. Moser could have easily been contacted, since she has always remained (and still lives), at the same address, and her full name still is and as always remains listed in the Lugano and Swiss telephone directory.

Another fact that raises doubts, is that the best results were obtained with the Ford Cosworth DFW and DFV, and at that time there were many of these Cosworth engines available. The only reason I believe they restored this replica to the original Repco engine version, is that there is plenty of information available about that BT24 Repco version, whereas there is no information regarding the BT24 Ford Cosworth.



Brabham BT24-3 Results from the original car


I suppose this car was born due to the problems with the new Repco 860 Motor during the South African GP on January 1st 1968. Since the first two Brabhams had already been sold, a new car was necessary to guarantee Jochen Rindt’s participation to all GPs, (main source, Book title: Tauranac Story by M. Lawrence).
Some sources say that the car had been built earlier, in 1967. However, the delivery of the two BT24 - 1 and 2, only after the South African GP from 1968 to the new owners, (Basil van Rooyen ZA and Sam Tingle ZW), could have only happened if there was actually a third car in existence.

I have found an article from Mr. John Blunsden from POWERSLIDE (Swiss German magazine) from June 1968, where the Brabham BT24 – 3 is mentioned for the first time. Unfortunately, Mr. Blunsden does not remember whether this article has also been published on any other English language magazine. This article on the Spanish GP, the BT24 is described as a newly built car, differing from its two predecessors in the gear box used, a Hewland FG400 instead of the usual DG300.

Then the car takes part on the following races using the Repco 740 Motor:


05.12.1968

Spanish GP with Jochen Rindt, retired due to motor problems.


Posted Image


05.26.1968

Monaco GP with Jochen Rindt, retired with an exit at the Mirabeaux. (Silvio and I were witnesses watching the race from the old station).


06.23.1968

Dutch GP with Dan Gurney, retired due to exit on wet racetrack.


Posted Image


08.04.1968

Germany GP with Kurt Ahrens, qualified 12th (best result of this car with the Repco engine).

Posted Image



During 1968 the frame was purchased by Mr. Frank Williams, and it was modified by Mr. John Muller with the help of Dewar Thomas on suggestion of Robin Herd so as to install the Ford Cosworth DFW engine (source: Frank Williams / Robin Herd). The Williams Team participated to the 1969 Tasmania Cup with Mr. Piers Courage obtaining the following results:


01.04.1969

New Zealand GP in Pukehohe, 3rd place


01.11.1969

Levin to Levin GP, 2nd place


01.18.1969

Lady Wigram Trophy at Wigram, 4th place


01.25.1969

Terentoga International at Terentoga, 1st place


02.02.1969

Australian GP at Lakeside, retired (accident)


02.09.1969

Warwick Farm at Warwick Farm, retired (accident)


02.16.1969

Sandown Park Cup at Sandown Park, retired due to transmission problem.




Mr. Piers Courage finishes overall on the 3rd place.


Posted Image




05.14.1969

Silvio Moser Racing Team SA (with myself as administrator and mechanic) purchases and picks up the car on May 14th 1969 including the Ford Cosworth DFV 802 engine, from Mr. Frank Williams at Slough GB and took part at the following races with Mr. Silvio Moser as driver:


05.18.1969

Monaco GP, retired due to broken transmission joint.


06.21.1969

Holland GP, retired due to motor problems (loss of power)


07.06.1969

France GP, 7th place


08.16.1969

Gold Cup at Oulton Park, 10th place


08.24.1969

St.Ursanne – Les Rangiers uphill race Swiss championship, 1st place.


08.31.1969

Ollone – Villars uphill race European championship, 2nd place overall, 1st place single-seater.


09.07.1969

Italian GP, retired due to fuel supply problems


09.20.1969

Canadian GP, retired due to accident


10.05.1969

USA GP, 6th place


10.19.1969

Mexican GP, 11th place (only race run with a different engine from our DFV 802, I think is was DFV 806 o 809)


Posted Image


Please refer to my home page (also in English) www.silviomoser.ch , (the Italian version is the most complete one to date).

In April 2000, Mr. John B. Dimmer took this vehicle to Adelaide where it was driven by Mr. Jack Brabham. Two ex mechanics from Brabham, Bob Illitch and Ian Lees have inspected this vehicle and have confirmed that it was in fact an original BT24. I believe this is difficult to understand as seen in the photographs.


Posted Image Posted Image


Photos above from “Motor Classic Corp”, sent to an American client in 1996.

Photo on the right from Mr. Dimmer’s Car, I have found it in the net. Posted Image



Observe rear end of the frame, drive shafts, petrol tanks, pedals, instruments panel and constructors plate.

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Cockpit Brabham Repco BT24 - 1
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Brabham Repco BT24 – 2 (maybe model 1) at Goodwood 1999



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Sunday morning at Mexico 1969, the Brabham Ford BT24 – 3 and myself.

#14 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 18:35

Some points arising from Mr Schenker's post.

THe DFV number 802 used by Moser during most of 1969 was, according to Autosport, ex-Tyrrell. In fact it had been used by Stewart to win the Spanish Grand Prix just 10 days before Mr Schenker picked it up from Frank Williams.

As Mr.Schenker says, Moser used DFV 802 through most of 1969. for the last race, the Mexican Grand Prix he switched to 806. This engine had been used by the McLaren works cars during the year. Does anyone know why he suddenly switched?

Most sources say that BT24-3 first apeared at the 1968 Spanish Grand Prix. I posted earlier on this thread that Mtor Sport reported that the car was a spare at the 1967 Italina Grand Prix. Paul Sheldon also says that the car was a spare, not used at that race, but he could have used Motor Sport as his source. Alan Henry says in his book Brabham, the Grand Prix Cars: "At monza, Jack tried his new spare BT24/3 with an all-envelping bubble top to the cockpit.." This is the only reference I have seen to BT24-3 actually running at Monza. Does anyone have any more evidence?

#15 Doug Nye

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 21:02

There is absolutely no doubt that 'BT24/3' appeared at Monza in preparation for the 1967 Italian Grand Prix, as DSJ reported at the time in 'Motor Sport' - October issue, page 894, column 2, first paragraph. However, Jenks' practice list includes times for only two of the BT24s, Jack's own car '24/1' and Denny Hulme's sister '24/2'. Jenks plainly believed that Jack tried his blown-perspex fighter canopy with a clear-vision slot cut into it, and his moulded 'Monza' gearbox faring, on his assigned car '24/1', but not both together on that car at the same time. I don't know where Bruin - Alan Henry - takes his assertion from that the bubble canopy was tried on chassis '3. The bubble top might perhaps have improved straightline speed but it seemed to cost Jack 4secs per lap in the gloom under the trees through the Lesmo section. The gearbox faring simply boiled the gearbox oil.

Both demon tweaks were set aside. On the second day of practice it seems Jack concentrated on his race car and got down to some serious slipstreaming, qualifying 2nd in the middle of the front row, 0.3sec behind Clark's Lotus 49 and a half-second faster than Bruce McLaren's M5A-BRM V12 on the outside.

Only two BT24s, '1 and '2 were taken to Watkins Glen for the United States GP, and the same pair were then trucked on down to Mexico City for the Mexican GP. By present-day standards - since both Brabham drivers were in the running for a WDC 1-2 - perhaps this is the definition of cool??

I produced with Ron Tauranac a detailed Profile publication on these cars - one of the most enjoyable things I have ever done - but just at this moment I can't find a copy, it's buried under the paper drifts...

Re DFVs - Sir Frank has an encyclopaedic (dealer's?) memory of DFV engine numbers from that period, and would I am sure recall 802 if it performed significant service for him.

DCN

#16 Barry Boor

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 21:42

Slightly O.T. to this thread, but still in the area of Silvio Moser's cars, the Bellasi is (was?) in the Donington collection.

Posted Image

#17 bschenker

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 22:16

www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39176

I can’t tell if I am correct, about the production date of the BT24-3. My deduction is based on the following facts.

Book from Mike Lawrence “The Ron Tauranac Story”, from page 198 to 207 is a production list confirmed from Mr. Tauranac. In this list you find production year for the BT24-3 as 1968.
Powerslide article from Dieter Stappert from Monza 1967, for him, the aerodynamic bodywork was changed for Saturday with the normal parts.
Adriano Cimarosti from Automobil Revue wrote the same thing about Monza 1967.
If they had three cars I can’t understand why both the BT24-1 and BT24-2 were delivered only after the 1968 South Africa GP.
John Blunsden wrote in Powerslide that Rindt received a brand new car for Jarama 1968, also on the photos found from that race, looks like a new car.

I have also an article from Bruno Nestola with designs, on this it’s not clear how many cars but text is always singular. Hi wrote Jack Brabham’s car was fitted with a bigger tank (9 gallons).
Maybe some former mechanics like Ron Denis can help.

Thanks for confirm of the engine number used in Mexico, the DFV 806. This it’s the text used in my site.
GRAND PRIX OF MEXICO CITY MEX.
results qualification finished the race at the 11. rank ** see below
14.rank
modification because of the breaking of the engine during the trial, we install one loaned by
McLaren. Engine model 1968 used for 800km in the trial.
during the Grand Prix of Mexico 1969 on the circuit Magdalena – Mixhuca of Mexico city
** With the engine of the McLaren and 200 liters of petrol instead of 40 the time per lap was getting right away lower of 2 sec. Even though he qualify in the 11 rank the car on the circuit felt very firm. When he was force to withdraw from the car was on 6 rank. The cause of the withdrawal was the breakage of the petrol – tank.


Bruce McLaren asked only to pay the engine overhauls in relation of his us, 800km McLaren and 300km Silvio Moser Racing Team.

The DFV 802 was sold together with the Bellasi to Tom Wheatcroft on begin of 1972, livered from myself to Leicester, full functional.
In 1995 Mrs. Moser, (today Mrs. Venco), buys again from Mr. Tom Wheatcroft the Bellasi, always with the intention to restore it to mint functional condition. The car was not functional and a carcass of engine fitted with the number DFV 703.
My question where is DFV 802, and what’s the history of DFV 703 (must by from Lotus) and DFV 211 the engine bought by Heini Mader in 1992.

#18 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 23:00

Originally posted by bschenker

If they had three cars I can’t understand why both the BT24-1 and BT24-2 were delivered only after the 1968 South Africa GP.


Welcome to the forum Beat.

The answer to this may be that the cars were sold in South Africa after the Grand Prix. It would make sound economic sense to Brabham to sell the cars locally after the Grand Prix.

I love the story about Bruce McLaren lending Moser an engine and only wanting payment for a proportion of the overhaul costs. It's not the sort of thing you can imagine happening today.

#19 bschenker

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 23:20

About Bruce McLaren
McLaren changed after all practise the shift rings (I hope this is the correct name) in the gearbox. Edi Wyss (Swiss engineer by McLaren) give this parts to my, with the consents from Bruce. Wee have always raced with this used ones.
Bruce McLaren normally has also transported the engine to Cosworth for overhaul, and also back on the next race. All free.

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#20 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 03:16

Hell I don't know why but these marvelous threads that bring back great personal memories seem to crop up so often here.
I was an 11 year old kid in the 1969 Mexican GP and I was with my friend who's dad was a big shot at Pemex, so we went to the GP and we helped the guys who were giving gasoline and oil to the teams with translating (they were like just union guys who spoke no english and we were kids from the bilingual school and sons of the bosses so we could do the job). We had a great time with the guys from all teams except Ferrari which wouldn't use mexican products (all the rest did and they had Faja de Oro gasoline and Pemex Sol oil) because they had their own barrels with (I think) Shell stuff. I remember the Moser team because it was like very unknown, and very small, and the driver spoek with a heavy accent so we couldn't understand much so I tried french (I had an haitian professor who taught me a bit) and we also tried italian (not much different from spanish) and the guy was very funny. After the practice was over we went to see the cars and Silvio saw us next to his car, he wasn't much taller than me, and he invited us to sort of jump in. I sincerely don't remember the mechanic except for the moment he helped me in the car, he was taller than Silvio I guess and had like an overall. Silvio was very kind and he put his helmet in my head and then my friend tried the car for size (I fit much better) and a journalist took pictures, sadly I never found out what newspaper he was from. We saw him again next day, got autographs and in the race he retired for some reason. His car was red with a white stripe and some white in the sides and it was the first F1 I sat in, and I was sort of always a fan of the tiny swiss driver who was so kind to me.
Definitely other times, we could like watch the Lotus people in action and Hill (in 1970) would see us and have such a serious face that we would be terrified of even moving but after a while he'd smile, and reine Wisell all blond with an all black girlfriend and of course Pedro, the best ever (who was about my height then) always saying hello to people who came in to wish him luck and answering 'I'll try' to all who said 'Tomorrow you win' because he knew the car was junk (1969 Ferrari) and we all thought since it was a Ferrari, he finally had a decent chance to shine in our own race. I didn't even have a pass, just a jacket with the Pemex logo. No Bernies then, but no live digital world TV either. :cry:
And I know this helps not at all in the question, but I felt like writing it.

#21 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 04:17

This the entry for BT24/3 in Paul Sheldon’s book Milestones behind the Marques

BT24/3 At the start of the 1969 [should be 1968] season, a little temporising had to be done as the two existing BT24s had been sold [BT24/1 to STP for Basil van Rooyen and BT24/2 to Team Gunston for Sam Tingle] and the BT26s were not ready. The solution was to build up a third BT24 from the spare parts which had never been needed because the cars had been so reliable. Rindt drove the BT24/3 at the Spanish and Monaco GPs. In the former he retired early on with oil pressure failing, while at Monaco he made the mistake of trying to push his way past Surtees in Casino Square. What a man to try that trick on!
The car was repaired in time for the Dutch GP and, as Rindt’s BT26 was ready, the BT24 was loaned to Gurney who had a miserable time in the pouring rain. He spun a couple of times and eventually, with a sticking throttle as well, he quietly gave up in the pits. The car was used for a little longer as a spare and hired to the Caltex Racing Team for the underrated German, Kurt Ahrens, to drive into twelfth place in the German GP.
As the third BT26 had now been completed, the BT24 was sold off to demon wheeler-dealer Frank Williams, who was going to prepare it for the Tasman series of races. So the car was fitted with small tanks and a Cosworth DFV engine for the brief antipodean races, but the plans never came to fruition. [Of course the car did race in the Tasman Series, driven by Piers Courage] Williams then fitted pannier tanks to carry sufficient fuel for the longer races and sold it. The purchaser was the little Swiss driver Silvio Moser, who wanted to replace his no longer competitive BT20.
Moser had a full season with the car, not setting the world alight but no doubt enjoying himself. His best placing of the year was in the United States GP when he got his first point of the season in the Championship. He was lying sixth again in Mexico, in his last race in the car, when a fuel leak caused him to retire from the competition. So the car was sold, to be replaced by the unique Formula 1 Bellasi.

#22 bschenker

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 09:36

Carlos Jalife
I remember the Moser team because it was like very unknown, and very small, and the driver spoke with a heavy accent so we couldn't understand much so I tried french (I had an haitian professor who taught me a bit) and we also tried italian (not much different from spanish) and the guy was very funny.


The team was Silvio Moser, Delfino Colmegna and myself. Mr. Colmegna (Swiss living Italian) was the manager for the overseas races and only person able to spoke English. Moser and I ar origin from German Swiss, so it’s was not French it’s was German dialect.

Milan Fistonic
This the entry for BT24/3 in Paul Sheldon’s book Milestones behind the Marques


Sam Tingle is still the owner of BT24 – 2, maybe he can tell same ting about the time to buy the car, before, during o after the race.

The BT20 – 2 was property of Charles Voegele Team. Charles Voegele have closed with racing end 1968, also closed his Les Leston shop and will no more hear any ting about racing. The BT24 – 3 was property of the Silvio Moser Racing Team SA and only November o December 1971 clear trough the Swiss custom (I have the document) after the car was sold to Mrs. Rosangela Moser.

#23 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 20:05

This third car - 'BT24/3' - was indeed taken by the Brabham Racing Organisation team to Monza for the 1967 Italian Grand Prix.

DCN

#24 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 20:48

We have now a great tuner at The Nostalgia Forum!

I am working with updates of my F2-pages, 1971-72 together with Franck 'FEV' Verplancken and among those great names - Novamotor, Alan Smith, Race Engine Services etc, we have found - Beat Schenker!

Stefan

#25 bschenker

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 00:04

The car 1971 from Silvio was first a loaned BT30 (I have same wear the number) used in Bogota (Columbia)
The second was the BT30 – 17 first used at Jarama with a new Cosworth FVA. I don’t have the full story but this car must be the used one by Jack Brabham and Jackie Stewart. I would like to hear the story.

Silvio’s 1972 car was a BT38 - 21 with a new Cosworth BDE engine. Why lost races for livery problems. Silvio Moser and I have selected this car with the conviction the car was designed from Mr. Ron Tauranac only later why heart the real facts. Why lost 3 or 4 races and I was always around with the money from the Bellasi deal. After a discussion with Bernie Ecclestone, I told him what’s I think, the car was ready in about 3 days. On the end of the year the car was sold to Fredie Amweg. From this car I sea last year a offer as rebuilt car, must by the just one, only I have not idea watts the offers origin.

#26 fines

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 01:04

Originally posted by bschenker
The BT20 – 2 was property of Charles Voegele Team. Charles Voegele have closed with racing end 1968, also closed his Les Leston shop and will no more hear any ting about racing. The BT24 – 3 was property of the Silvio Moser Racing Team SA and only November o December 1971 clear trough the Swiss custom (I have the document) after the car was sold to Mrs. Rosangela Moser.

Beat, can you tell us a bit more about why Charles Voegele quit racing so abruptly? He even closed his "Les Leston" race gear shop, was he losing money over it?

#27 bschenker

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 12:35

I can’t tell the reason for the retirement of Charles Voegele, clearly not a finance problem. Hi is owner of the Charles Voegele Group, Clothes and Shoes, one of the biggest in Switzerland. Actually hi is sponsor for the weather prevision in Swiss TV. The Les Leston Shop was a Zurich Bahnhofstrasse near the Paradeplatz and I think it’s still a Charles Voegele Shop. Hi was also President in different racing organisations in Switzerland example the SAR, the organizer of the yearly racing school at Montlery on that’s time.
I have a small film of the one I think from 1965 who its present also Stirling Moss. Charles Voegele have abandoned al this and I have never heart the really reason.
Recently I have wrote to him for hear who have going al his material, hi respond with that’s hi have any idea, hi was only driving for the team and have noting to too with the organisation and I have to contact his manager o last mechanic. Difficult to understand for a man that’s after a half year take back the control of the Group from his Sons who have always worked in his Owen business.
I can’t tell more. Maybe a journalist asks Peter Sauber hi is from the same part and near to the Swiss racing people.

#28 bschenker

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 16:24

I have one other question, about the gearbox. The only confirm for the type of gearbox used its John Blunsden article. I have also find a photo from Dan Gurney at Zandvoort with the BT24 - 3 from the rear side, one this picture looks lick a FG 400 from Hewland.
The problem it’s the memory after all this time, still for Mr. Ron Tauranac its was all the same like the BT24 – 1 and BT24 – 2, but he tell also that’s for him after al this years a quantity of cars built is not possible to remember all.
Also Frank Williams and Robin Herd tell it’s been a DG300 gearbox. Also on the bill from Frank Williams is indicated a DG300. I cant remember all particular, but its clear that’s from late after lunch of 14th May 1969 to first day of practice at Monaco on 15th May was not the time for a change. Why have always raced with the FG400 gearbox, I have two complete transmissions the FG400 – X and FG400-1, also a repaired case with only number 1, al this since I started from Frank’s Shop.
I asked also Hewland, but also there have not clear facts.

My mail to Hewland
From: Beat Schenker [mailto:beat@pitagora.ch]
Sent: 14 January 2002 14:28
To: mike.h@hewland.com
Subject: Concerns: Hewland FG400 Transaxle gearbox unit
Dear Mr. Mike Hewland,
Let me introduce myself, I am the mechanic who worked and was responsible for the last seasons of the Brabham BT24-3, working for Mr. Silvio Moser (former owner and driver). Furthermore, I am still responsible for the original car and I am currently working on its complete restoration. See also my homepage http://www.silviomoser.ch
I would like to know whether you remember where this gearbox was used for the first time, and who used it on what model car. This question refers to the following gearboxes: The FG400 – X; FG400 – 1 and another one with the only inscription “1” which are still in our hands. If you find additional information, I would also appreciate if you could tell me dates when these gear boxes were sold.
The reason I ask you for this information is that a problem has come up with a copy of the Brabham BT24 – 3 in the USA, see also the story above.
Hoping you can remember or kept records on these items and looking forward to your kind reply, with best regards.
Beat Schenker


And the reply
Dear Beat,

thank you for your e mail,

I have discussed your situation with Mr William Hewland and I am afraid that we cannot help you with any definite information, our archive records from this period are very patchy as at that era of motorsport most of these details could probably be remembered.

FG400 number 1 and 2 were proto types that we are ensure who they were supplied to probably late 1969/ early 1970.
FG-400 X is not in the range of Hewland serial numbers and may have been a re maincase rebuild.

sorry we could not supply any more detailed information.

Best regards


Steve

Steve Clews: Sales Manager
Hewland Engineering Ltd
Tel ++44 (0)1628 827600
Fax ++44 (0)1628 829706
e-mail sales@hewland.com
web www.hewland.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Lingard
To: William Hewland
Cc: sales
Date: 14 January 2002 15:46
Subject: FW: Concerns: Hewland FG400 Transaxle gearbox unit
Steve,

I think you can probably help him with the gearbox information from Ron's books!

Kevin


Fact it’s the gearboxes was used and why have used from Monaco 1969. I’m not sure but I think this type of gearbox was also used on Stewarts Matra during 1969.

#29 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 17:01

The 1967-68 gearbox was a Hewland DG300 - similar to that used through 1969 by the Matra MS80 and the McLaren M7s. This is the transmission which Mike Hewland had on the drawing board when someone stuck their head round his door and asked "What's this, a Different Gearbox?" but Dan Gurney became convinced it was initialled in his honour for the AAR Eagle and Mike was too polite to disabuse him of that idea. The rather lighter FG400 gearbox, I believe, became available around '69, based on the 1600cc F2 FT200 design but with uprated internals. In 1970 it was adopted by Derek Gardner for the Tyrrell 001 prototype, by Chapman for the Lotus 72 and by Bernard Boyer for the Matra MS120s. There was no hard and fast rule on use of these transmissions but the FG and FGA gained widespread acceptance before constructors really became self-sufficient in creating their own transmission packages later in the 1970s and into the '80s.

DCN

PS - Beat - I have found a 1973 note from a reliable source suggesting that after the 'BT24/3' suspension set - or spares - had been adopted for use on the Bellasi, 'the remains' of 'BT24/3' had been acquired from Silvio Moser by Franz Albert in Austria.... Can you recall any reason why we should have thought that this was the case in 1973??????

#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 17:23

Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....The rather lighter FG400 gearbox, I believe, became available around '69, based on the 1600cc F2 FT200 design but with uprated internals....


My understanding is that this was virrtually an FT200 with the differential from the DG300.

And Bert... apart from welcoming you too... the 'shift rings' would probably be more commonly known as 'dog rings'... which suffer abuse in gearchanges.

#31 David McKinney

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 19:35

Doug,
I too thought the BT24 remains had gone to Franz Albert - based on a now-forgotten printed source whose own source may in turn be the same as yours. However, I now think this is a reference to the ex-Moser BT20, which Albert did buy

#32 Allen Brown

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 19:58

I go on holiday for a week and all this happens!

Firstly, Hello Beat. Glad to see that you've found TNF and I hope that the experts here can advance your research.

Secondly, Brian Lear has noticed that my OldRacingCars.com lists BT24/3 in Switzerland and BT24/3-R in the US. This is because, for many years, I have regarded the US BT24 to be, on the balance of probabilities, not the original BT24/3 but to be something else. I don't know what else and I suspect that only Pierre de Siebenthal can tell us more than we already know. Please note my use of the words "on the balance of probabilities", which I use very deliberately. I am in contact with both Beat and John Dimmer and have done everything I can to resolve this thorny issue. I first saw the Dimmer BT24 at Watkins Glen in 1994 when it was owned by Ernie Topran and even then, when I had only heard rumours of another claimant in Switzerland, I was concerned about the frame. It did not (then) look like a BT24 to me but I cannot now remember precisely what I had spotted. Unfortunately I have lost my notebook from my 1994 trip.

Thirdly, can I try to clear up this Franz Albert business. The source Doug may be referring to is a booklet on the Repco Brabhams, produced in November 1972 as part of the "Cars in Profile" series. Its author was, ahem, Doug Nye and he credits the F1 Register for his chassis histories. I believe that, for once, Duncan and Paul had got it wrong.

In February 1969, veteran Tyrolean driver Franz Albert purchased Brabham BT20 F1-2-66 from Charles Vögele for an attack on the Austrian hill climb championship - a better example of taking a hammer to crack a nut being difficult to find. The Austrian series, like most of the European mountain championships, was dominated in the late 1960s by sports cars, with the occasional ageing F2 or F3 car thrown in, and Albert’s main competition would come from the Porsche 910 of Richard Gerin, the Porsche 906 of Sigi Pust, Gerhard Krammer’s Alfa-powered Brabham BT18 (F2-15-66), originally used in F3, and Wolfgang Stumpf’s 1965 F2 Lotus 35 (35-F-15), by then fitted with a BMW powerplant. I could take you through it climb by climb but let's save that for another day - suffice to say Albert only won once, at Wildbichl in June.

At the end of the season, the nearby Bavarian clubs of AC Dachau and AC Munchen put on a hastily-prepared meeting at Neubiberg which attracted a number of the Austrian hill-climbers. Krammer’s Brabham was eligible for the F2 race, as was Stumpf’s Lotus, but poor Albert found his F1 car turned away. The F1 Register, struggling to work out which "ex-Moser" car that could be, speculated that it was BT24/3. Paul Sheldon's 1976 "Milestones Behind the Marques" also used that identification.

The next reference to the car is in Motoring News (14 May 1970 p22) when it notes that Jo Siffert had taken "Charles Vögele's Brabham BT20" to victory in a hill climb at Sepi’s home town of Freiburg on Sunday 26 April. The car had actually joined Siffert's collection of show cars.

After Siffert's death later in 1971, the collection was split up, with most of the cars going to France. The Brabham was bought by Chassiang de Borredon and placed in his museum near Rouen. It is only known to have run once during this time, in 1974.

De Borredon died in 1985 and three years later his widow sold the museum to a consortium which included the Paris-based Historic F2 racer Steve Hitchins. In May 1991 the car was in an auction at Monaco but did not sell. It was sold to Steve Griswold in August that year but Griswold did not intend to keep it and was taken to Monaco again in 1992 and yet again in 1993, failing to sell both times. It was still at Brooks storage facility at Clapham in June 1993. Maybe Doug can extend the story a little further.

Allen

#33 bschenker

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 19:59

Response to Doug Nye

The only suspension part used on the Bellasi was the rear axle and drive shafts. This part was the same as used on the BT26A, why have changed al parts just after the Monaco GP. Why have never sold parts to Albert. I found Albert as next Owner of the Voegele BT20 – 2, but still I’m not able to contact him. I want to find out who it’s this car. The same tings it’s a Porsche with the spare Repco 620 from Voegele, used on end of 1968 from Karl Foitek on two o tree hill climb races.
I find always the notice “that’s Silvio’s BT20”, like he was the owner but Moser was never personal owner of a Formula 1. I think this fact’s together with errors like the list in Mike Lawrence book, from the cars used in the single race, was used for the false documents. I have still all suspensions parts also this livered from Frank Williams together with the car.

Responds to Ray Bell

Your have right the most parts from differential it’s the same with the DG400 and most gearbox parts the same from FT200.
I remember an article on this was written that’s Brabham first tested a FT200 with the Repco engine and the DG300 was used only for problems with the differential. Only I cant remember what’s publication this was.

#34 bschenker

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 21:02

For remember
I heart from the false BT24 – 3 1999 from Marcel Schaub and Marcel Spiess present was also Trevor Needham and immediately in my free time I start the search.
1992 I have contacted Frank Williams for help, his response is from 29.01.1992 and tell my to contact David McLaughlin.

I have contacted David McLaughlin his response from 02.24.1992 offers an engine and tell my he can produce the needed parts.
I lost this contact after I asked for a price from a nose.

Summer 1992 I was also in Donington and sea Mr. Tom Wheatcroft, I asked also him for help. On this day on the track was the first time the twin engine Alfa. I cant remember al cars but sure a BRM with 2l V8, BRM V16 turbo, Tyrell F1 and a Ferrari I cant tell the right model a front engine with gearbox on the side of drivers seat and rear differential. During the drive from a Journalist on this car was broken the gearbox housing.
On the same time I tell Mister Wheatcroft that’s the Bellasi is my personal work also the design (still in my hand the importantly ones) and consigned him same smaller design from smaller parts. On this time was no idea to buy back the Bellasi. Maybe he can remember.

#35 Allen Brown

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 21:45

Originally posted by bschenker
I found Albert as next Owner of the Voegele BT20 – 2, but still I’m not able to contact him.

Beat

I believe that Franz Albert was killed while driving his Chevrolet Camaro at Ulm Flugplatzrennen in May 1971.

Allen

#36 bschenker

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 21:51

thanks i think part of the BT20 History is in your first message.

beat

#37 Doug Nye

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Posted 08 April 2002 - 08:39

Well all the above explains one hell of a lot.

Interestingly the high-angle photo of John Dimmer's car shows a subtly 'peculiar' shape at variance with a true BT24. It really does have that more snipy F2 look - BT23-like - about the forepart proportions of the car.

The 1972/73 note I found re Franz Albert most probably came from Duncan Rabagliati (F1 Register) I suppose, at the time I did the profile with Ron Tauranac, but the note is type-written which threw me because normally DCPR's notes are in microscopic handwriting demanding GCHQ or CIA assistance in decoding. I assumed it came from RT. It caused me to wonder about the continuity of ownership cited - but nice to have that doubt allayed.

Allen, the only BT20 I can recall being for sale with Steve Hitchens involved at Monaco is the wonderfully original car which ended up with Aba Cogan and which he drove rather well in the subsequent Monaco Historics meeting about three years ago? As far as I know the car remains with him - in cahoots with those wonderful Ferraris and Matras - today. The interesting thing about that car - at that time - was its apparently unsullied original Brabham Racing Organisation paintwork - no sign of any other liveries ever having been applied to it. I'm not really sure how Denny - in particular - would have felt about the car belonging to a character who seems to favour purple PVC catsuits and fluorescent green or pink hair...but it takes all sorts...

DC

#38 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 April 2002 - 11:54

Doug

From memory - without my missing notebook - the BT24 was in the Watkins Glen paddock sitting next to a BT23. As I wandered through the paddock, I thought I saw two BT23s next to each other and walked on. Later I scanned the program, noticed there was a BT24 present and went off to find it. When I got back to the BT24, I was stunned by how similar the frame was to the next-door BT23. It was different at the rear of course, but the front was surprisingly similar, even allowing for the similarities I know existed between the designs.

However, as many can testify, identifying Brabham chassis frames is not my area of expertise!

I should have realised the BT20 was the Kogan car. In hindsight, it's interesting that its livery was original. I saw the car in de Borredon's museum (at Brionne IIRC) in 1983 and it seemed original then but that was before I knew that Albert had run it for a season. Did Moser really run it in BRO livery? Could Siffert or de Borredon have restored it to BRO/Hulme livery around 1970-1974?

Allen

#39 fines

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Posted 08 April 2002 - 15:42

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Beat

I believe that Franz Albert was killed while driving his Chevrolet Camaro at Ulm Flugplatzrennen in May 1971.

Allen

Franz Albert (if that is the same, that is) raced quite successfully in the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft until the late seventies! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

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#40 bschenker

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Posted 08 April 2002 - 19:42

Charles Voegele's BT20 - 2, ex Hulme and Ligier was painted inthe Swiss colors red and white, al cars from Voegele hat this color. On the Formula 1 was also on the nose yellow paints. Its possible thats Siffert have changed back to the Hulme colors.

I have not idea who is Franz Albert, i heart the first time about him on my search for the BT20 - 2.

#41 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 April 2002 - 22:50

Originally posted by fines

Franz Albert (if that is the same, that is) raced quite successfully in the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft until the late seventies! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Michael

I've checked my notes and I did not record my source for Albert's "death". I do not have Motoring News for 1971 so I guess it must have been Autosport in May 1971. I'll check tomorrow.

Beat - so much for the "original livery". At least I wasn't the only one fooled.

Allen

#42 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 04:51

Motoring News January 25, 1968

WORKS BRABHAMS SOLD IN SOUTH AFRICA

Jack Brabham saved himself the problem of transporting the two Formula 1 works Brabhams back from the South African GP by selling both of them. His car was purchased by STP and will be raced throughout the coming season by saloon car driver Basil van Rooyen, who made a brief appearance in England. The car Jochen Rindt raced has been purchased by a Rhodesian and will be raced by Sam Tingle who currently races an LDS-Repco.

#43 Barry Lake

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 05:18

Boy! Am I ever pleased I contacted Beat for details of Silvio Moser and, thereby, triggered this thread.

Unfortunately I am too busy with Australian research to follow all of this as closely as I would like, but I am extremely happy that we have so many experts working on straightening out these histories. (And exposing fakes).

It's great, also, to have someone like Beat on the forum, with his first hand experience and a determination to "get it right".

#44 bschenker

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 22:29

Milan Fistonic Motoring News January 25, 1968



My English it’s not the best, so sorry for my question. This text tells the deal was make in the moment o its possible hi was prepared before.
Still tanks to all.

#45 fines

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 14:45

Beat, I think that's not entirely clear from the news item. I'll send a translation to you via e-mail! :)

#46 Doug Nye

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Posted 11 April 2002 - 09:48

May I offer this pic of Dan Gurney in the Brabham-Repco at Zandvoort in 1968 (I happen fortuitously to have stumbled across a stackload of currently topical TNF fodder in a just-unearthed box file).

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DCN

#47 bschenker

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Posted 12 April 2002 - 19:41

I have a similar photo from Dan Gurney, it’s my memory ok, it’s was first time a Formula 1 driver with an integral helmet. Other better to see on my photo, hi ride with the same sweater tats you can see in the open car photo inserted from Roger Clark. Photo on that’s is possible to see the big difference about original car and Mr. Dimmers car. On the original the pedal stand on the floor, in the other you can see hanging pedals.
This winter I found the possibility to visit the archive from MSA (MotorSportAktuell) the successor of Powerslide. Next a list of all photos that’s I was able to find.
I found photos from:
Brabham BT06 Junior/F3
Brabham BT15/16 F2
Alfa Romeo TZ Touring car
Cooper ATS F1
Brabham BT20 F1
Tecno F2
Porsche 907
Bellasi F1
Brabham BT30/36
Brabham BT38
Surtees TS10
March 742

And from the Brabham Repco / Cosworth BT24 –3 the sequent photos:
GP Jarama 1968, Jochen Rindt from Motor News & Features
GP Jarama 1968, Jochen Rindt from Hansgeorg Isenberg
GP Monaco 1968, Jochen Rindt from Karl Heinz Fiebig
GP Monaco 1968, Jochen Rindt from Hermann Pickartz
GP Zandvoort 1968, Dan Gurney 2x from Rainer Schlegelmilch
GP Zandvoort 1968, Dan Gurney from Karl Heinz Fiebig (similar to Doug Nye photo)
GP Zandvoort 1968, Dan Gurney 2x from A. H. Rottensteiner
GP Zandvoort 1968, Dan Gurney 2x from Michael Cooper
GP Zandvoort 1968, Dan Gurney from Hermann Pickartz
GP Nuerburgring 1968, Kurt Ahrens from A. H. Rottensteiner
GP Monaco 1969, Silvio Moser from Karl Imber
GP Zandvoort 1969, Silvio Moser 2x from Karl Imber
GP Clermont – Ferrand 1969, Silvio Moser from K. H. Fiebig
GP Clermont – Ferrand 1969, Silvio Moser from Karl Imber
GP Clermont – Ferrand 1969, Silvio Moser from Hansgeorg Isenberg
GP Clermont – Ferrand 1969, Silvio Moser from Michael Cooper
GP Monza 1969, Silvio Moser 2x from Attualfoto
GP Monza 1969, Silvio Moser 2x from A. H. Rottensteiner
GP Mexico 1969, the car and myself from Manfred Gygli
GP Mexico 1969, the car from Manfred Gygli
GP Mexico 1969, Silvio Moser 2x from Manfred Gygli
GP Mexico 1969, Silvio Moser from Bernard Cahier
GP Mexico 1969, Silvio Moser from D.P.P.I.

Actually I search to take contact with the photographers for other ones and right for us of these photos. I have also to visit the archive from Automobilrevue a Bern (CH), Sport (in the past most important Swiss sport newspaper) a Zürich (CH) and Actual Foto (ex Attualfoto) a Bologna (I), the big problem I have to find the time.

Another question is the model cars search in my web site. I founded the producer last year.

Jean Pierre Viranet

TENARIV 4, rue Gambetta - BP 15 62750 - LOOS EN GOHELLE FRANCE.
Tél. : 33 (0) 3 21 28 48 54 Fax : 33 (0) 3 21 28 48 55


The models are out of production while Mr. Viranet has finished the stickers for these cars. In the name of Mrs. Moser and help of Mr. Jabby Crombac, why have offered to take the cost for a new series of stickers, its luck like the production himself is only a time problem. I have also proposed to complete the series with Courage variant. It same interested pleas send a fax to Mr. Viranet.

#48 bschenker

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 09:44

This is a response from Phil Kerr, on this luck’s lick on end of 1967 exist only two BT24.

Dear Beat

Many thanks for your email and for supplying the photographs and the information, as you understand it about the Brabham BT24. Unfortunately I can’t help you personally because I was only involved with the Brabham team up to and including 1967 with the first two BT24’s after which both Denny Hulme and myself left the Brabham team to join McLaren Racing.

However, I realise you would like to have more information from either John Muller or Dewar Thomas and I will ask some of my friends here in New Zealand about obtaining addresses for you. If I am able to locate them then I will send the information to you by email as soon as possible. However it may take me a little time to track them down.

Best wishes
Phil Kerr

#49 bschenker

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Posted 24 April 2002 - 20:28

With the help from Fines, I found the way to public the photos.

First Dan Gurney at Zandvoort 1968 with the historic helmet and I don’t maybe also historic sweater. Photo from Karl Heinz Fiebig.
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Second Jochen Rindt at Monaco 1968 on the Brabham Repco BT24 – 3. Photo from Karl Heinz Fiebig.
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Third the Brabham Cosworth BT24 – 3 at Mexico 1969. Photo from Manfred Gygli (the last address; 9655 Fairdale Lane, Houston Texas 77042, I cant find him)
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I open also a new thread about a Lotus 24 with photos founded together with the photos from the false BT24 – 3.

#50 bschenker

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Posted 24 April 2002 - 20:32

Sorry I hope this time it's ok.
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