28 replies to this topic

[SmercH]

Hi all!

As far as I know Achille Varzi was italian, but the team he created was based in Argentina. Is this correct? If yes, then to which "nationality" did this team belonged - Italy or Argentina, i.e. what colors were on the cars - italian red or argentinean black and blue (or whatever else)?

Thanks

[Vitesse2]

Scuderia Achille Varzi should more properly be known by the Spanish name Squadra Achille Varzi. The team was formed by the Argentinian Automobile Club to enable Fangio and Campos (initially) to race in Europe. Although the team carried the name of the great Varzi, he was dead before it was formed, and it was named in his honour - he was very popular in Argentina.

The cars were painted blue and yellow.

[David McKinney]

The team was based in Italy

[Doug Nye]

...in the stable and garage block of the Varzi family home at Galliate, with Achille Varzi's former personal mechanic Amedeo Bignami acting in a technical liaison and assistant-management role dealing with Maserati at Bologna.

DCN

[Marcor]

It seems that the first contact of Varzi with the Argentinian motosport goes back in End of 1932. The direction of the new General San Martin circuit at Buenos-Aires got in touch with Varzi and would entered him in 3 races of 150 km each. Varzi had to be with his mechanic and had to have at his disposal 2 Bugatti 2.3 L (T51). I'm sure this project fell through.

Varzi began the 1947 season in Argentina and had enjoyed himself there. He went back the following year. He had project when he would stop competition.

[marhal]

Hi everybody..............The "Escudería Achille Varzi" was Argentinian, their colors were blue and yellow, was founded after the death of the great Varzi, and all their drivers were argentinians like Fangio, Puopolo, Gonzalez, Campos, Marimon. The cars used by the Scuderia were Ferraris, Maseratis and Simcas. This "Escuderia" was backed by the ACA (Automovil Club Argentino), and was a Juan Domingo Perón effort for propagandistic and politic goals. Their "capomecanico" was the mitic Amedeo Bignami, Varzi`s mechanic. The Escudería`s HQ was at Galliate. Some people tells me that the team´s name was a tribute to the great italian driver, and was a continuation of the help that Varzi wanted to give Fangio in their first european steps. This Scuderia has an enormous historic significance, because was the beginning of the fabulous Fangio´s international career.

[SmercH]

OK, thank you guys for info!

btw is there a place in internet where all cars with their liveries could be seen? I often have discussions about many old F1 teams and their cars, e.g. were ERAs yellow or green etc.

[David McKinney]

I don't know of any website such as you suggest - perhaps you could start one up?
The works ERAs were a variety of colours over the years, but never as great a variety as the private cars. They raced in red, white, blue, blue & yellow, black, grey, white, various shades of green...

[Bjorn Kjer]

I am a bit puzzled regarding this team , can any of you help me out ?

Team : Escuderia Achille Varzi

Founder and backer : ACA (Automovil Club Argentino)

Base : Italy , Galliate

Raced F1 and F2

Now looking at 1950 I find the team in F1 AND F2 (only 2 races, but also the ACA in F2 . Even in the Modena F2 the Varzi team had 2 drivers and ACA 1 driver . Were they 1 or 2 teams ????????

On the ACA transporter is only the ACA name , must however admit that I dont know if there is any name on the doors. Also have not seen any transporter on the Varzi team ! Any help or explanation to this ??

[Bjorn Kjer]

I am still puzzled , because I have entries by the Varzi team and by the ACA , all the same ?

Still no help ??

[fines]

Bjørn, I don't know where do you find these entries from the ACA and the Varzi team, but it may be possible that the source(s) have just confused the names, or maybe the team did indeed enter some races under the one name, and others under the other name. In German we have a saying, "Namen sind Schall und Rauch!", meaning that there is nothing substantial in a name - just like Team Lotus appearing at Monza in 1971 as "World Wide Racing". Fact is, both the ACA and Escudería Achille Varzi used the same cars, so it is probably best to consider them as one team, with two different names perhaps.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Michael , I do not find anything on random , but f.ex. use Sheldon as a base of info! When I or others find faults or the like , I want to correct them .The ACA name appears in many circumstances as well as on their transporter , the Achille Varzi team name not much (except the Sheldon books ?) but with the right name ?
I can be forced to , but dont like , asuming ! (Anyway as I have said earlier , elsewhere on the TNF , and more than once , a record book concisting of F1 results with , driver, car , team and entrant does not exist!)

[taylov]

I felt that we could not have a discussion of Scuderia Achille Varzi without a photo of the great man himself in a typical pose. Here is "Aquiles Varzi" on the front cover of the Buenos Aires sports magazine "El Grafico"; issue 1437 of 24 January 1947. Tony

[fines]

Typical pose? Where's the cigarette...

[taylov]

Sorry if the scan isn't clear - the ciggy is in his left hand on the steering wheel.

Tony

[fines]

Oh yes, you're right...

Mental note: Must check my eyes! Must check my eyes! Must...

[Bjorn Kjer]

The pic and your little talk would have been more in place on one of the Many Achille Varzi threads , IMHO

[shrapnel]

I was reading a new book called Tracks: Racing the Sun ( http://www.tracksracingthesun.com ) this week, the book just came out in the UK. In it, it says that Fangio met Varzi after the war in Argentina and Fangio was a big fan of Varzi's (called him the maestro). Anyway, apparently Fangio came to Europe at Varzi's suggestion, and started his European career working out of Varzi's family home, and with Varzi's mechanic (with whom he won the mille miglia back in 1934).

 

The book is a really good read, I strongly recommend it.

[wenoopy]

I was reading a new book called Tracks: Racing the Sun ( http://www.tracksracingthesun.com ) this week, the book just came out in the UK. In it, it says that Fangio met Varzi after the war in Argentina and Fangio was a big fan of Varzi's (called him the maestro). Anyway, apparently Fangio came to Europe at Varzi's suggestion, and started his European career working out of Varzi's family home, and with Varzi's mechanic (with whom he won the mille miglia back in 1934).

 

The book is a really good read, I strongly recommend it.

 

Hmm.  You didn't mention that it was a work of fiction.

[shrapnel]

Hmm.  You didn't mention that it was a work of fiction.

 

The book is historical fiction, not fiction. Which means it's based on fact but told in narrative form.

[Michael Ferner]

Oh dear!

[kayemod]

The book is historical fiction, not fiction. Which means it's based on fact but told in narrative form.

 

When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging.

[shrapnel]

When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging.

 

Not sure why you would feel so negative about a book you've never read but it is well researched and includes an afterword detailing the research into historical accuracy. It also details what happened to Ilse Pietch, which has a never been revealed before. The research is quite meticulous....

 

But whatever, I suppose you know best. I was just trying to be a bit nice and recommend something people on this forum might like. 

 

Thanks for your kindness.

[D-Type]

Would you consider A Tale of Two Cities a good source for facts about the era of the French Revolution - particularly those not directly related to the narrative.  Ditto Kidnapped for Scotland post-1745, Ivanhoe for 13th Century England, The 39 Steps or The Riddle of the Sands for pre-WW1 England and Germany, or 633 Squadron for World War 2 Bomber Command? 

 

I doubt it.  So why do you feel justified in citing Racing the Sun in this case.  No matter how well researched the bokk is (and I am not questioning that it is) the reality is that the author is quite capable of inventing the Fangio/ Varzi interaction as historical shorthand to help the main narrative along.

 

The negativity relates to the use of a novel to determine a disputed question of fact and not in any way to the quality of the novel or the research behind it.

 

Just for interest, does Racing the Sun include the Neubauer "Mercedes paint scraping" story which has been proven to be a myth although it is still used by daimler-Benz publicists.

[Doug Nye]

Steady there - if I recall rightly, Varzi did indeed recognise Fangio's incipient class during an early Temporada series postwar in Argentina, and he did indeed encourage both the ACA itself and its Peron-backed favoured drivers to consider a full European tour. After Varzi's death his father invited the touring team to base themselves at Galliate as described in an earlier post.  So what's wrong with such a factual basis for our friend's favoured work of fiction, cited above?  See Fangio's final Spanish/Englishbiography...I forget it's title and am too wrecked still after the weekend to go and find it. Umm Roberto Carozzo (?) author.

 

DCN

[kayemod]

Steady there - if I recall rightly, Varzi did indeed recognise Fangio's incipient class during an early Temporada series postwar in Argentina, and he did indeed encourage both the ACA itself and its Peron-backed favoured drivers to consider a full European tour. After Varzi's death his father invited the touring team to base themselves at Galliate as described in an earlier post.  So what's wrong with such a factual basis for our friend's favoured work of fiction, cited above?  See Fangio's final Spanish/Englishbiography...I forget it's title and am too wrecked still after the weekend to go and find it. Umm Roberto Carozzo (?) author.

 

DCN

 

Put your feet up and take it easy Doug, the title you're looking for is My Twenty Years of Racing, an interesting work, but I suspect it lost a good deal in the translation for the English version. Certainly a lot more reliable than any work of 'historical fiction' though.

[D-Type]

I'm not questioning the facts - just whether you can cite a novel as confirmation.

[Vitesse2]

Put your feet up and take it easy Doug, the title you're looking for is My Twenty Years of Racing, an interesting work, but I suspect it lost a good deal in the translation for the English version. Certainly a lot more reliable than any work of 'historical fiction' though.

Er, no: the Carozzo book is called Fangio: a racing life. My Twenty Years of Racing was an earlier one, co-written with Marcello Giambertone.

[shrapnel]

Just for interest, does Racing the Sun include the Neubauer "Mercedes paint scraping" story which has been proven to be a myth although it is still used by daimler-Benz publicists.

 

No it doesn't mention the paint story. He doesn't really follow Neubauer that much at all. Also, he doesn't attribute the whole Varzi morphine addiction thing to Ilse Pietsch: the book refers to Varzi developing his addiction during his first season at Auto Union when he was taking medication for his appendicitis. He probably got this from "Una curva cieca. Vita di Achille Varzi", which I picked up myself a few years back, and in which this is also mentioned, if I recall rightly, that Fangio came to Galliate after Varzi's death. (http://www.amazon.it...&qid=1404385267).  Apologies for referring to the historical fiction for this, but tbh I was really more just recommending a book to read that making any statement of fact, I recommend reading Una Curva Ciela too.

 

Anyway, he doesn't mention the Neubauer paint story, and most of Sandro Martini's sources seem to be in Italian anyway (there is a bibliography on his website). As mentioned,  the afterword explains how the book was written in terms of research and explains how he tracked down Ilse's actual death date (which varies quite a lot from what Paul Pietsch told Teruzzi in Curva Cieca btw, by 6 years!).  

 

As I say, it's a good read, well I thought so.  Having read quite a lot about this era of racing I find mixed reports here there and everywhere on many things, I can't tell you 100% what is or isn't true as I wasn't there, and I wouldn't try to.