15 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

I have read that the Lotus 39 and Brabham BT19 both were designed to take the Coventry-Climax flat-16. I know that the engine was never raced in Grand Prix events, but how much testing was actually done? At what point was the project canned?

[Vitesse2]

They seem to have given up on the flat 16 once the 3-litre formula had been announced. Mike Lawrence says only 209bhp had been achieved, against an estimated potential 220-240bhp. But the later FWMVs were already giving 210bhp plus and still winning, so the development probably wasn't considered worth the effort for an engine which would only have maybe one full season before it was obsolete. If they'd extended the 1500cc F1 then maybe the story would have been different - imagine the flat 16 up against the Honda V12!

The V8 and F16 were considered as possible supercharged F1 engines for the 3-litre formula, but Wally Hassan realised that turbos were the way to go and there was nothing suitable available at the time.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Thanks, Richard.

I was astonished to read a story about a planned 32-cylinder (!) F1-engine for 1966 from Honda, installed transversally !

It was told in an Autocar magazine from 1965 and the article was refering to story in the dutch mag 'Auto Visie'.

The engine would have had four rows of eight cylinders each with a central power take out...

I wonder if Honda ever contemplated this, or if it just was a wild rumour...?

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
They seem to have given up on the flat 16 once the 3-litre formula had been announced.

THe 3-litre formula was announced well before the Flat-16. When Climax announced the new engine they already knew that it would have only when year's use. The Flat-16 was a very clever design, more compact in almost all dimensions than the V8; quite different from the BRM H16.
As well as the BT19 and the 39, Coper also built a car for it, it was used as a testbed for the 3-litre Maserati engined cars. Jo Siffert drove it in the early part of 1966.

I remember there were some wild rumours about the congiguration of te 3-litre Honda engine, but I don't think they had any basis in fact. They seemd to be mainly based on the assumption that Honda would multiply up their motorcycle engines.

[fines]

Honda did some amazing things in the two-wheel sector, like the 5-cyl. 125cc with (I believe) 13-speed gearbox!

[bobbo]

Damn! I thought the Honda 1500cc V12 sounded terrific! Can't imagine how the Climax flat-16 would have sounded! (Icon of large puddle of drool at my feet)

And it they were both TURBOCHARGED for the 3-litre formula . . . (whimper! )

Might-have-beens . . . Does anyone know what happened to the engines?


BTW, Fines, my Honda 350 cc 2 cyl. motorcycle had a redline of 10,500RPM. It went that high without even working hard with me on board and I was @ 110kg at the time . . .

Bobbo

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
THe 3-litre formula was announced well before the Flat-16. When Climax announced the new engine they already knew that it would have only when year's use.

The 3-litre formula was announced in December 1963, but I think work had started on the F16 in mid-Summer 1963.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


The 3-litre formula was announced in December 1963, but I think work had started on the F16 in mid-Summer 1963.

True, but they didn't announce the 16 until late 1964. THe point was that Climax continued to develop the 16 even though they knew it would only have at most one year's racing.

[Catalina Park]

I think that Climax was looking at the Ferrari Flat 12 and the Honda V12 developments and wanted to keep up or ahead of what the competition was up to even if it was a dead end!

Now could you imagine a Coventry Climax H32 3 litre

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Roger Clark


True, but they didn't announce the 16 until late 1964. THe point was that Climax continued to develop the 16 even though they knew it would only have at most one year's racing.

Perhaps they were hoping/expecting the 1500cc formula might be extended a couple of years, as the previous one had been?

[Doug Nye]

Here's the flat-16 Climax engine at launch. Proud father Wally Hassan centre behind:



DCN
(GPL pic)

[fines]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Here's the flat-16 Climax engine at launch. Proud father Wally Hassan centre behind:

Who are the others?

[Doug Nye]

Harry Spiers - customer liaison - right, and it should be Leonard Lord, head of Coventry Climax left, but it just doesn't look like him to me...

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Perhaps they were hoping/expecting the 1500cc formula might be extended a couple of years, as the previous one had been?

Not likely!!

They were champing at the bit to get some power back into F1 through those lean (horsepower wise) years of 1961-65. And don't forget that the Tasman cars were quicker than F1 and the Can-Am cars quicker still. F1 had to be re-established at the top of the tree!

That apart, isn't it a darling of an engine? Shame it wasn't there in '62!

And an enlarged version for the Tasman... though one suspects with what's been said that this might be impossible, that it was built down to the bare minimum dimensions.

[bobbo]

I have a vague memory of an article in Sports Car U]Graphic[/U] that Coventry Climax planned 4 engines for Lotus, Cooper, Brabham and one for testing. Did any of these engines actually make it into chassis? If so, were there any public appearances? Pics, anyone?

Bobbo

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by bobbo
I have a vague memory of an article in Sports Car U]Graphic[/U] that Coventry Climax planned 4 engines for Lotus, Cooper, Brabham and one for testing. Did any of these engines actually make it into chassis? If so, were there any public appearances? Pics, anyone?

Bobbo

I think you're right about the engines they planned, but none made it beyond the test bed. I don't thknow how many they actually built.