Early in 1954 Hans Stuck took a Porsche Spyder to Brazil and raced it at both Rio and Sao Paulo, at the Interlagos circuit. He subsequently sold it to someone in Brazil who crashed it, and it was sold on to Christian 'Bino' Heins, who restored it and raced it successfully.
This car is an early Porsche Spyder and so far a mystery car that doesn't fit into any known chronology. Is it possible that someone out there has or can find a photo of this car? It would help greatly in my updating of 'Excellence Was Expected'.
Hans Stuck Porsche in Brazil 1954
Started by
karlcars
, Jun 11 2002 18:11
20 replies to this topic
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#2
Roland Kunz
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Posted 11 June 2002 - 19:42
Hello
Search the web for vin# 550 - 006 owned ( ? ) by Ramson Webster
Grüsse
Search the web for vin# 550 - 006 owned ( ? ) by Ramson Webster
Grüsse
#3
Roland Kunz
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#4
David McKinney
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Posted 11 June 2002 - 21:13
The site says the car was 06 (which was in a different sequence from 006)
Von Neumann had 003, 005, 011 and 014, but I don't know about 006 (or 06)
There is no reason to believe the car Stuck raced in the US for von Neumann was the same as the one he used in Brazil
Von Neumann had 003, 005, 011 and 014, but I don't know about 006 (or 06)
There is no reason to believe the car Stuck raced in the US for von Neumann was the same as the one he used in Brazil
#5
karlcars
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Posted 12 June 2002 - 08:36
I originally thought that 06 had to be the car that Stuck took to Brazil, and which remained there. This seems imossible, however. I believe the owner of 06 to be engaging in flights of fancy if he thinks that Stuck ever drove his car. He certainly didn't race it for Von Neumann! 06 has an interesting story in its own right but does not appear to be the car that Stuck took to Brazil. He decsribes the episode in great detail in his book but maddeningly provides no photo of the car.
#6
Chico Landi
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Posted 12 June 2002 - 18:45
Karl,
there's a picture of this car in the book "Circuito da Gávea", by Paulo Scali, after it has been rebuilt by Heins, with his friend (and motorsport man) Jorge Lettry at the steering wheel.
Unfortunately, I have no scanner and absolutely no time to scan it somewhere in the next weeks. It seems that Jimmy Piget have this book too, so maybe he can help you. Jimmy?
there's a picture of this car in the book "Circuito da Gávea", by Paulo Scali, after it has been rebuilt by Heins, with his friend (and motorsport man) Jorge Lettry at the steering wheel.
Unfortunately, I have no scanner and absolutely no time to scan it somewhere in the next weeks. It seems that Jimmy Piget have this book too, so maybe he can help you. Jimmy?
#7
karlcars
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Posted 12 June 2002 - 19:41
I really hope to see this picture, especially as Jorge Lettry is a friend of mine. I met him when he was with the Puma company in 1968.
Let the scanners roll!
Let the scanners roll!
#8
Jimmy Piget
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Posted 15 June 2002 - 12:28
posted by Chico Landi :
<>
Well I'll scan it sometimes during this week-end.
But how to insert a pic inside a TNF message ?
Copy/paste ?
<
Well I'll scan it sometimes during this week-end.
But how to insert a pic inside a TNF message ?
Copy/paste ?
#9
Jimmy Piget
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Posted 16 June 2002 - 19:53
The pic is scanned (JPEG format), it's on my hard disk, but I really cannot understand how to post it in this thread...
Help !
Jimmy
Help !
Jimmy
#10
cjpani
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Posted 17 June 2002 - 17:23
Jimy, check your PM´s
Carlos
Carlos
#11
cjpani
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Posted 18 June 2002 - 17:20
And here´s Jimmy´s pic.
I have to say that the tailights seem a little odd, maybe Karl can enlighten the matter
best regards
Carlos
I have to say that the tailights seem a little odd, maybe Karl can enlighten the matter
best regards
Carlos
#12
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 18 June 2002 - 22:22
The photo depicts the early customer version of the 550, the 550-05, which appeared also at the 1953 Paris Auto Show. Previous editions had shown a different front end and did not have the raised taillights. Its all in Karl Ludvigsen's PORSCHE Excellence Was Expected.
#13
cjpani
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Posted 18 June 2002 - 22:58
Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
The photo depicts the early customer version of the 550, the 550-05, which appeared also at the 1953 Paris Auto Show. Previous editions had shown a different front end and did not have the raised taillights. Its all in Karl Ludvigsen's PORSCHE Excellence Was Expected.
Thanks for the explanation Hans.
Unfortunately, I have been unable to get a copy of the "Porschephile´s Bible" here in Mexico City. Not even through ebay.com.
I am eagerly awaiting the updated version that Karl is working on as we speak
Best Regards
Carlos
#14
Doug Nye
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Posted 18 June 2002 - 23:10
Head in the lion's mouth time here - but after BRM'ing all bloody day I need a break...
I THINK the Stuck Porsche Brazil von Neumann story actually went something like this, unless friends have been blowing exhaust smoke up my trouser leg:
The car in question is 550-006...the sixth 550 built and one of 15 prototypes built prior to handing the rest of them (the 'production' 550's) off to Wendler to construct.
Hans Stuck received an invitation to compete in the 1954 Argentine1,000kms...but he had no suitable car...so he went to Ferry Porsche and asked if there was any chance of a car to drive. To which they said, you may have this one...but don't under any circumstances bother to bring it back...sell it when you are over there and just come back to us with the money.
It was intended to have a 4-cam engine installed in '006' ...but they only had 2 built at that
time, so they installed a push-rod motor instead, and off it went. Stuck ran the car possibly
three times, two of which were in Brazil. Bino Heins was at the third race...and since Stuck was out of money and Heinz had some...presto, $3,500 bought him a 'prototype' 550. Bino Heins called the factory and ordered a four-cam motor to replace the ex-Stuck pushrod unit, then raced the car in (and won??) the 1954 Brazilian Sports Car (under 2 liter class) Championship.
Heinz then sold the car to Brazilian Fernando Seguro in early November 1954...he promptly ntered and ran the car in the 1954 Carrera PanAmerica road race, which of course ended in extreme northern Mexico. After the race, Segura stored the car in a barn in Northern Mexico rather than trying to take the car back to South America. That's the bit which I have been told, but which bothers me....
Meanwhile, in California, John Von Neumann had taken delivery of 550-0011 in late 1954 and
promptly destroyed the car (maybe this is the 'crashed' part in your story).
Von Neumann called Porsche to order a new car...to which their reply was...we don't have ny...but we understand there is a car sitting in a barn in Northern Mexico...and the owner will sell it. Von Neumann tracked down Seguro...made a deal, and sent one of his lackies to pick up the car...towing it north over the frontier behind his Ford station wagon.
Von Neumann had Ken Miles drive the car and Miles loved it...I am told that they ran the car 25-30 times in 1955-56 (SCCA and SoCal events) with great success. Von Neumann then sold the
car to some local guy (no name available). The car turned up five years later (1961) in Englishtown, New Jersey...where it was purchased off a car lot by a guy named Jeff Wright, who kept the car for three years and sold it to a General Electric Jet Engine engineer named Fred Rauch who kept the car for 19 years.
A friend of of a friend of mine, Prescott Kelly purchased the car from Rauch in 1983 after he got a 'tip' about this 'funny looking aluminium bodied Porsche in Kentucky'. Kelly sold the car to Roy Walzer of Connecticut in 1988.
Walzer restored the car...raced it about six-eight times...including Monterey three times, and sold it to its current owner Ranson Webster who lives in Nevada.
When Von Neumann had the car, he cut huge brake cooling openings in the front of the bodywork...and those are still on the car today...it's an immediate give-a-way to 006's identity.
As for 550-0011...I am told that another friend of a friend has the chassis plate...if you want a car built around it, I am asked to let them know.
Now does this all stack up, or not, because to me these early Porsches are of passing - rather than abiding - interest. Covered wheels, fluttery, whirry little air-cooled engines, you see...
DCN
I THINK the Stuck Porsche Brazil von Neumann story actually went something like this, unless friends have been blowing exhaust smoke up my trouser leg:
The car in question is 550-006...the sixth 550 built and one of 15 prototypes built prior to handing the rest of them (the 'production' 550's) off to Wendler to construct.
Hans Stuck received an invitation to compete in the 1954 Argentine1,000kms...but he had no suitable car...so he went to Ferry Porsche and asked if there was any chance of a car to drive. To which they said, you may have this one...but don't under any circumstances bother to bring it back...sell it when you are over there and just come back to us with the money.
It was intended to have a 4-cam engine installed in '006' ...but they only had 2 built at that
time, so they installed a push-rod motor instead, and off it went. Stuck ran the car possibly
three times, two of which were in Brazil. Bino Heins was at the third race...and since Stuck was out of money and Heinz had some...presto, $3,500 bought him a 'prototype' 550. Bino Heins called the factory and ordered a four-cam motor to replace the ex-Stuck pushrod unit, then raced the car in (and won??) the 1954 Brazilian Sports Car (under 2 liter class) Championship.
Heinz then sold the car to Brazilian Fernando Seguro in early November 1954...he promptly ntered and ran the car in the 1954 Carrera PanAmerica road race, which of course ended in extreme northern Mexico. After the race, Segura stored the car in a barn in Northern Mexico rather than trying to take the car back to South America. That's the bit which I have been told, but which bothers me....
Meanwhile, in California, John Von Neumann had taken delivery of 550-0011 in late 1954 and
promptly destroyed the car (maybe this is the 'crashed' part in your story).
Von Neumann called Porsche to order a new car...to which their reply was...we don't have ny...but we understand there is a car sitting in a barn in Northern Mexico...and the owner will sell it. Von Neumann tracked down Seguro...made a deal, and sent one of his lackies to pick up the car...towing it north over the frontier behind his Ford station wagon.
Von Neumann had Ken Miles drive the car and Miles loved it...I am told that they ran the car 25-30 times in 1955-56 (SCCA and SoCal events) with great success. Von Neumann then sold the
car to some local guy (no name available). The car turned up five years later (1961) in Englishtown, New Jersey...where it was purchased off a car lot by a guy named Jeff Wright, who kept the car for three years and sold it to a General Electric Jet Engine engineer named Fred Rauch who kept the car for 19 years.
A friend of of a friend of mine, Prescott Kelly purchased the car from Rauch in 1983 after he got a 'tip' about this 'funny looking aluminium bodied Porsche in Kentucky'. Kelly sold the car to Roy Walzer of Connecticut in 1988.
Walzer restored the car...raced it about six-eight times...including Monterey three times, and sold it to its current owner Ranson Webster who lives in Nevada.
When Von Neumann had the car, he cut huge brake cooling openings in the front of the bodywork...and those are still on the car today...it's an immediate give-a-way to 006's identity.
As for 550-0011...I am told that another friend of a friend has the chassis plate...if you want a car built around it, I am asked to let them know.
Now does this all stack up, or not, because to me these early Porsches are of passing - rather than abiding - interest. Covered wheels, fluttery, whirry little air-cooled engines, you see...
DCN
#15
cabianca
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Posted 19 June 2002 - 00:47
Doug and 550 Watchers;
Von Neumann's first 550 was 003. When it appeared at Pebble Beach in April 1954, it was the first Spyder to race in California. At that point, the car had a pushrod engine.
Later that year, von Neumann showed up at March Field (Riverside CA) with 011. It had a 4-cam 547 engine. This car was crashed and burned to the ground at March Field (California) in November, 1954. The number plate is in the kitchen drawer of an ex-von Neumann mechanic.
I believe von Neumann's third car, which posted the record described by Doug, was 005. I make its first appearance in von Neumann ownership at Pebble Beach in April 1956. I think I came up with this from a book that one of the mechanics had the kept track of which engines and transmissions each car used in each race. The California Spyder expert is Warren Eads.
If you will look at p. 143 of the 1955-56 edition of Automobile Year (Annual Automobile Review), there is a color picture of a Spyder, #67, entered by Hunt and Hanna. It also has the large scoops at the front, so this feature was not limited to the von Neumann car. It is possible that this was the car in the Englishtown junkyard, since Hunt and Hanna were from the Eastern US.
Von Neumann's first 550 was 003. When it appeared at Pebble Beach in April 1954, it was the first Spyder to race in California. At that point, the car had a pushrod engine.
Later that year, von Neumann showed up at March Field (Riverside CA) with 011. It had a 4-cam 547 engine. This car was crashed and burned to the ground at March Field (California) in November, 1954. The number plate is in the kitchen drawer of an ex-von Neumann mechanic.
I believe von Neumann's third car, which posted the record described by Doug, was 005. I make its first appearance in von Neumann ownership at Pebble Beach in April 1956. I think I came up with this from a book that one of the mechanics had the kept track of which engines and transmissions each car used in each race. The California Spyder expert is Warren Eads.
If you will look at p. 143 of the 1955-56 edition of Automobile Year (Annual Automobile Review), there is a color picture of a Spyder, #67, entered by Hunt and Hanna. It also has the large scoops at the front, so this feature was not limited to the von Neumann car. It is possible that this was the car in the Englishtown junkyard, since Hunt and Hanna were from the Eastern US.
#16
cabianca
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Posted 19 June 2002 - 03:45
I have spoken with Warren Eads who confirms the story that 006, not 005 was the von Neumann 550 with the large front fender scoops. He says he has pictures of many other von Neumann modifications including much drilling for lightness in shock towers, door frames, etc. which 006 still retains. Somewhere I have an article in which Ken Miles refers to the car as either "the fifth car built" or "the sixth car built". When I find that reference, I will attach it to this thread. Eads says 005 was still in Germany when 006 was being raced in the U.S. There's still one fly in the ointment. Von Neumann has told me that he bought one of his Spyders from Jaroslav Juhan.
#17
dmj
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Posted 19 June 2002 - 07:35
Originally posted by Doug Nye
Head in the lion's mouth time here - but after BRM'ing all bloody day I need a break...
DCN
#18
Doug Nye
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Posted 19 June 2002 - 09:24
Jerry Juhan - of course - was eminently well connected in central America. It's nice to have the identification of '006' confirmed. I'm still not totally convinced, even though it's my information, however.
DCN
DCN
#19
karlcars
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Posted 20 June 2002 - 17:54
Hugely interesting and potentially helpful, all who've contributed. This is a knotty problem that I hope to solve in the new draft. I'll do my best!
Many thanks!
Many thanks!
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#20
dmj
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 10:09
Slightly OT but I would like to know more about racing history of Austrian 550 Spyder that Mathe converted with unusual tight-opening cockpit. I believe that car is still unrestored in Austria but where it was raced before conversion?
#21
550spyder
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Posted 08 February 2003 - 21:31
I have a doubt about the Bino Heins Spyder. I remember that the Fittipaldi brothers bought a 550 Spyder that belonged to Christian Heins and made the Fitti-Porsche. This car have some success in the brazilian races but lacked reliability.
This prototype was sold by Fittipaldi brothers to Pedro Victor Delamare (raced in england in F3) that sold the car to Sergio Magalhaes. Sergio did some races with a VW engine and sold the car to a guy living in the interland and lost it´s track.
Wilson Fittipaldi tryed to track the car but did not find nothing. The car is believed to be destroyed or choped in a junkyard.
The are some photos of the car and it´s history in the URL:http://www.speed-fever.com.br/
go to Historias and Carros and Fitti-Porsche
I never heard that Bino Heins have had two Spyders. http://www.speed-fever.com.br/
This prototype was sold by Fittipaldi brothers to Pedro Victor Delamare (raced in england in F3) that sold the car to Sergio Magalhaes. Sergio did some races with a VW engine and sold the car to a guy living in the interland and lost it´s track.
Wilson Fittipaldi tryed to track the car but did not find nothing. The car is believed to be destroyed or choped in a junkyard.
The are some photos of the car and it´s history in the URL:http://www.speed-fever.com.br/
go to Historias and Carros and Fitti-Porsche
I never heard that Bino Heins have had two Spyders. http://www.speed-fever.com.br/
