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'Almost-moves'


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#751 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 14:26

Verstappen to Jaguar in 2004 (Heinz Prüller)

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#752 HistoryFan

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:18

Stewart wanted Hill for 1997.

#753 HistoryFan

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:18

Boullion for the injured Panis for Prost in 1997.
Sauber give Hill an attractive offer for 1998.
Wurz for Fontana at Sauber in 1997

all from F1 Racing

#754 HistoryFan

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:32

From F1 Racing:

Mansell to Toleman in 1984.
Kristensen to Minardi in 1998.

#755 HistoryFan

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 19:19

Klaus Ludwig 1987 for Zakspeed.-

#756 HistoryFan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 18:57

Webber and Ferrari for 2013...

From F1 Racing:
1989 Herbert and Ferrari
1988 Nakajima and Williams

#757 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:43

Ralf Schumacher to Sauber 1999 (F1 Racing)

#758 ryan86

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 14:30

How "almost" are these almost moves?

#759 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:43

A bit like when a driver says "I almost saved it" but the car ends up in kit form.

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#760 scheivlak

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 20:37

Stewart wanted Hill for 1997.

If we mention every occasion a team boss wanted some driver this might become a really long thread.....

#761 ryan86

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 13:00

I just get the impression it comes from one of these types of articles

Frentzen's Williams nightmare is over as he has signed a contract with Eddie Jordan's team, which has shown a return to form after a poor start to the season. With Hill signed to the end of 1999, this leaves Ralf without a drive. He was seen talking to Peter Sauber in the paddock at the weekend, possibly to replace Herbert who is having a poor season, but Williams will also be interested now they've got two vacancies.


And if you lose your drive, you'd expect him to be trying to get his foot in at the other 5 or 6 viable options.

#762 ensign14

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 22:35

Taki Inoue had offers to drive for both Arrows and Minardi for at least some races in 1996, according to this interview. Inoue now runs an African mining company.

#763 Zippel

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 00:27

Taki Inoue had offers to drive for both Arrows and Minardi for at least some races in 1996, according to this interview. Inoue now runs an African mining company.


Taki Inoue was very much an almost at Minardi. I think he was on their drivers list at the beginning of 1996 but his sponsors pulled out. I remember an interview years ago where he said he could have stayed quiet for a few races about his lack of money but decided to do the right thing.

#764 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 21:01

McLaren and Williams wanted their test drivers Heidfeld/Montoya to drive for Minardi in 1999

#765 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:32

Errr, really?

#766 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 14:35

Heinz Prüller:

- Lotus wanted Berger for 1989
- Capelli, Modena and expecially Boutsen for Ferrari in 1989
- Schneider to Onyx in 1989.

#767 HistoryFan

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 13:47

Prüller:

Lehto 1989 to Scuderia Italia
Oscar Larrauri 1983 to Ligier
Oscar Larrauri 1984 to Tyrrell
Derek Warwick 1989 to Lotus.

#768 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 18:45

after Magnussen was fired by Stewart, Montoya was in talks to replace him.

#769 HistoryFan

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:38

There were many Lotus drivers for 1994, but were there also more drivers in talks with Lotus for 1994?

#770 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:03

Benetton wanted Eddie Cheever for 1986 but BMW could keep Berger.

Senna wanted Gugelmin to join him at Lotus for 1986.

And Streiff could race for Minardi in 1986 if Tyrrell hadn't sign him.

Edited by HistoryFan, 01 May 2013 - 09:03.


#771 HistoryFan

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:17

For 1995:
- Verstappen to Ligier
- Christian Fittipaldi to McLaren (with support from Marlboro)
- Naspetti to Forti

#772 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 15:54

Comas to Tyrrell for 1995.

#773 HistoryFan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 19:41

Lamy 1995 to Arrows.
Beretta 1995 to Jordan.
Deletraz 1995 to Simtek and Arrows.
Sospiri 1996 to Tyrrell.

Edited by HistoryFan, 03 June 2013 - 19:45.


#774 HistoryFan

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 18:32

Bernoldi 2001 to Prost (tested already), Sauber (also) and Minardi.
Bernoldi 2003 to Jordan (confirmed by team spokesman)

#775 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:37

During the 94 season:
Moreno to Simtek

For 1996:
Lagorce to Forti
De Ferran to Ligier (Walkinshaw wanted him)

During the 96 season
Collard to Tyrrell
Lavaggi for Montermini at Forti

For 1997
Salo to Benetton (Mild Seven)
Diniz to Minardi

#776 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 18:49

1994:
Marco Werner to Minardi

During 1994:
Jordan: Badoer for suspended Irvine at Jordan
Werner and Bartels for Ratzenberger at Simtek
Larrousse: Barbazza, Aiello, Collard, Bouchut
Simtek: Salo, Kristensen, Zoboldi, Ross Cheever
Lotus: Bertaggia

1995
- Aiello to Jordan

During 1999
- Verstappen and Salo (turned down the offer) and Magnussen and Rosset (Minardi didn't wanted them) for the injured Badoer at Minardi

2000
- Panis to Arrows
- Fisichella to Jordan
- Max Wilson to Minardi
- Juncqueira to Minardi

#777 HistoryFan

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:07

For 1998:

 

Salo to Jordan in 1998

Zonta to Arrows in 1998

Fontana, Montermini and Boullion to Tyrrell in 1998

 

And Hill was offered 20 mio dollars from Sauber for driving for them three years 1998 onwards. 



#778 D-Type

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 15:50

The trouble with this thread is that because the moves never happened we have no way of knowing how much substance there was behind a report.  A potential move reported by several sources, provided they were independent, might have had some substance.  On the other hand, a potential move reported by a single publication could be a journalistic 'scoop' or it could be pure invention to fill a hole on the page, or to provoke a discussion.



#779 William Hunt

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 22:02

Franco Forini tested (pretty sure it was at Imola, most teams were present) for Ligier in the beginning of 1988 and was very close to signing for them (as a paydriver). Forini's test was quite close to the start of the '88 season and I remember that at that time several seats were still not 100% certain. Ligier ended up signing Stefan Johansson.


Edited by William Hunt, 21 August 2013 - 22:04.


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#780 William Hunt

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 22:29

New 1986 "almost moves":

  • Eddie Cheever was ready to drive second Tyrrell, but just before Brazil Tyrrell signed with Philippe Streiff
  • Klaus Ludwig was entered by Zakspeed for European GP only; but he never run any F.1 GP
  • Marc Surer and Derek Warwick were both second drivers at Arrows, but Warwick never had a GP (he went at Brabham after De Angelis's death and he raced in Arrows only from 1987)
  • Mike Thackwell should have driven Ram-Hart
  • Mauro Baldi on Ekstoem-Motori Moderni from Imola (ghost car, it never raced)
  • Alain Ferté was ready to replace Christian Danner (he replaced injuried Marc Surer at Arrows) on second Osella from Detroit, but this seat was taken by Allen Berg and (only at Monza) Alex Caffi
  • Philippe Alliot was ready to drive a third Ligier-Renauilt for France GP only, but there were no eniugh engines...
(from Autosprint 8/1986 page 19 - 9/1986 page 16 - 25/1986 page 15 and 25)

 

 

Huub Rothengatter had negotiated with Tyrrell, Arrows and RAM during the winter of '85-'86, he ended up at Zakspeed.

In Februari 1986 there was a pre-season tyre test at Jacarépagua, Rio. Does anyone have times for that test. Reason I really would like to see who drove there is that RAM participated at that test with 2 cars but I don't know who drove for them and would really like to know (Kenny Acheson?)

 

There was a similar winter test there in '89 at Rio, on March 15 Philippe Streiff had his accident there in an AGS. Possibly there were also pre-season tests in '85, '87 or '88 in Rio). If anyone has more results of pre-season tests from the '80s I would like to see them; it may reveal more almost-moves.



#781 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:07

Apicella and Fontana also were in talks for replacing Magnussen during the 1998 season at Stewart. 



#782 Michael Ferner

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:24

In Februari 1986 there was a pre-season tyre test at Jacarépagua, Rio. Does anyone have times for that test.

 

About 9:00 am to 4:00 pm.



#783 sramoa

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 15:14

Huub Rothengatter had negotiated with Tyrrell, Arrows and RAM during the winter of '85-'86, he ended up at Zakspeed.

In Februari 1986 there was a pre-season tyre test at Jacarépagua, Rio. Does anyone have times for that test. Reason I really would like to see who drove there is that RAM participated at that test with 2 cars but I don't know who drove for them and would really like to know (Kenny Acheson?)

 

There was a similar winter test there in '89 at Rio, on March 15 Philippe Streiff had his accident there in an AGS. Possibly there were also pre-season tests in '85, '87 or '88 in Rio). If anyone has more results of pre-season tests from the '80s I would like to see them; it may reveal more almost-moves.

 

I have a book:there I foundan entry list- Ivan Capelli was in Osella(not Ghinzani) in pre-season.



#784 HistoryFan

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 14:11

From "Motorsport aktuell"

 

For 1999:

Sauber: Takagi, Montoya, Zonta

Minardi: Heidfeld, Nakano



#785 William Hunt

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 16:30

I have a book:there I foundan entry list- Ivan Capelli was in Osella(not Ghinzani) in pre-season.

 If you have an entry list: can you enlighten us of who was entered by RAM? I am sure that RAM participated in that '86 pre-season test and really would like to know who drove for them during that test? Did Rothengatter also participate in that test?


Edited by William Hunt, 29 August 2013 - 16:31.


#786 Tim Murray

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 17:44

Here's the list of testing times from Autosport. Their report makes very little mention of the RAM team, other than that they only got one lap in on the Monday after a turbo failure, and had packed up to go home by Wednesday afternoon following persistent overheating problems. No mention of Rothengatter:

 

wjqn.jpg

 

 



#787 ensign14

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 19:43

The RAM team was going to be known as Black Swan, with Australian backing, hence presumably the antipodean driver. 

 

One from last week's Autosport is Michel Trolle had signed something with Tyrrell for 1989, then he had his accident at Brands. 



#788 HistoryFan

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 14:56

Fom "Motorsport aktuell"

 

Pacific during the 1994 season: Jeff Krosnoff, Mauro Martini, Tom Kristensen - all struggled for superlicence. 



#789 Geza Sury

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:38

Here's the list of testing times from Autosport. Their report makes very little mention of the RAM team, other than that they only got one lap in on the Monday after a turbo failure, and had packed up to go home by Wednesday afternoon following persistent overheating problems. No mention of Rothengatter:

 

wjqn.jpg

This is intetesting. Christian Danner drove for Arrows during this test, but he started the season with Osella and switched to Arrows after the Canadian GP. So it looks as though Arrows wanted to run Surer and Danner in 1986 but eventually signed up Thierry Boutsen and Surer.


Edited by Geza Sury, 13 September 2013 - 09:39.


#790 PeterElleray

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:53

This is intetesting. Christian Danner drove for Arrows during this test, but he started the season with Osella and switched to Arrows after the Canadian GP. So it looks as though Arrows wanted to run Surer and Danner in 1986 but eventually signed up Thierry Boutsen and Surer.

You're reading too much into it Geza. Thierry was already signed for 1986 but unable to travel to the test for personnal reasons. Christian was seconded to take his place due to his BMW connections. When Marc went rallying later that summer this proved to have been quite a useful 'trial'.

 

Peter (Arrows race engineer 1985/1986)


Edited by PeterElleray, 13 September 2013 - 09:53.


#791 Regazzoni

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:36

In the youtube film I posted on the “Forghieri on Ferrari” thread, Gianfranco Palazzoli says that at the end of 1981 he reached an agreement with Rosberg to drive for Osella, as he was without a drive after leaving Fittipaldi. Contract of $80k for a year, only for Saima (the main sponsor) to ditch the agreement because they wanted to keep Jarier. He adds that they – Palazzoli and Rosberg – still laugh about it when they meet…



#792 hogstar

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 21:06

In the youtube film I posted on the “Forghieri on Ferrari” thread, Gianfranco Palazzoli says that at the end of 1981 he reached an agreement with Rosberg to drive for Osella, as he was without a drive after leaving Fittipaldi. Contract of $80k for a year, only for Saima (the main sponsor) to ditch the agreement because they wanted to keep Jarier. He adds that they – Palazzoli and Rosberg – still laugh about it when they meet…

 

Never knew that! Had this happened, it could of finished his career (which by late '81 looked finished anyway) The Osella was a dreadful, poorly built car that Jarier flattered to a degree. A certain irony that Jarier was on the shortlist for the number two Williams seat that eventually become Rosberg's in 1982. Whether this was ever offered to Jarier I don't know. (I think he may of done a test), but Jarier as the '82 WDC while Rosberg drove around in a shaky Osella? How different things could of been...  :drunk:



#793 Regazzoni

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 21:10

Never knew that! Had this happened, it could of finished his career (which by late '81 looked finished anyway) The Osella was a dreadful, poorly built car that Jarier flattered to a degree. A certain irony that Jarier was on the shortlist for the number two Williams seat that eventually become Rosberg's in 1982. Whether this was ever offered to Jarier I don't know. (I think he may of done a test), but Jarier as the '82 WDC while Rosberg drove around in a shaky Osella? How different things could of been...  :drunk:

 

Do you know why they laugh about it? Because rather than an almost move, it was a near miss...  ;)



#794 Geza Sury

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:20

You're reading too much into it Geza. Thierry was already signed for 1986 but unable to travel to the test for personnal reasons. Christian was seconded to take his place due to his BMW connections. When Marc went rallying later that summer this proved to have been quite a useful 'trial'.

 

Peter (Arrows race engineer 1985/1986)

It's always nice to read first hand information. Thanks a lot, Peter!


Edited by Geza Sury, 23 September 2013 - 06:20.


#795 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 22:23

Were there no other drivers who were in talks with McLaren for 1987 alongside Johansson? I heard Pironi was one, but alongside him?



#796 ensign14

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 22:46

Automobile Sport 1981-2 suggests Mo Nunn was trying to get together sponsorship for an Eagle-Ensign with Mario Andretti up for the 1982 season.



#797 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 22:49

Eagle-Ensign?



#798 D-Type

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:10

Eagle-Ensign?

Lancia-Ferrari, McLaren-Elva, Wolf-Williams, McLaren-Project 4, Benetton-Toleman, are examples of mergers that spring to mind.  There have been mergers in racing since the early days - Mercedes-Benz for example.  It is quite plausible that the suggested merger might have been mooted in 1981.  Remember that a lot of this thread is made up of 'what might have beens' with some being more likely and some coming nearer to fruition than others.



#799 HistoryFan

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:09

Yes but Eagle wasn't in F1 in that time...



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#800 D-Type

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:27

Yes but Eagle wasn't in F1 in that time...

Nor was Mario Andretti.  But all they both had been and it is plausible that they might have been considering a return. And Ensign were struggling in F1 and would have welcomed an injection of cash and expertise.

 

This suggestion is no more fanciful than many on this thread.