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'Almost-moves'


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#51 theunions

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 21:26

Where did Josele Garza fit in within this Brabham line? And, IIRC, it was lack of sponsorship that kept him from pursuing that further?

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#52 ghinzani

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 07:03

Originally posted by theunions
Where did Josele Garza fit in within this Brabham line? And, IIRC, it was lack of sponsorship that kept him from pursuing that further?


I beleive it was lack of money, he was also linked to Minardi but that never came off - I think this was linked to the then Minardi team manager being mexican or spanish speaking at least - he was called Jaime something but for the life of me I cant re,member. Garza may have made a decent F1 driver, he was only 18 or 19 when he debuted in Indycar so would have only been mid twenties at around the time he looked to F1. At that time he was languishing in a Machinist Union March, where he had been for some seasons, occasionally showing great pace when the equipemnt allowed.

#53 ensign14

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 19:00

I'd not heard the Kaiser story either, sounds odd because he would have qualified for a superlicence. After all, in 1987 you had Adrian Campos making his debut, and his F3000 record was far worse than Kaiser's. Ditto Franco Forini.

#54 Geza Sury

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 19:29

Originally posted by ensign14
Ditto Franco Forini.

And he wore glasses, too :D

#55 petefenelon

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 23:27

Originally posted by Théodore33
Did Alboreto choose to go to Tyrrell in 1989, or did Frank Williams finally rather Patrese stay at Williams ? :confused:
Because I have heard that Michele should have gone to Williams in 1989, but I never known why he did not.

Thanks


Alboreto was a long-time Marlboro-backed driver, and had to leave Tyrrell when Chopper acquired Camel sponsorship. Williams were part-sponsored by Barclay cancersticks in '89...

#56 gdecarli

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 00:28

Emanuele Pirro "almost signed" more than once.
At Brazilian GP (the first one) 1987 Tyrrell #3 was driven by Jonathan Palmer, but from the following one, San Marino GP, this car should have been driven by Pirro. By the way, in May there were rumors that also Mauro Baldi could have signed. Of course we know that Palmer drove for the whole season.
So Pirro should have driven Benetton Bmw at Monza 1987, but he was not allowed (for more details, see this old thread). IIRC, he has also some more "almost signed".

Ciao,
Guido

#57 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 01:03

In Motoring News of February 11, 1987 Bernie was quoted as saying "It's not something I've been worrying about at the moment. I just have no idea who it will be." Speculation at that time was either Emanuele Pirro or Tomas Kaiser could partner Patrese. Kaiser had also been linked with a drive at Arrows.

A week later there was news from Italy that de Cesaris was trying to fix up a deal to drive for Brabham.

On March 25 Kaiser was still rumoured to be Patrese's partner.

And then April 8 it was announced that de Cesaris would get the drive.

"Bernie Ecclestone's team had been dragging its feet for weeks on the question of nominating a second driver for 1987 and last Tuesday FISA was notified that Mauro Baldi would be the new recruit. Yet hardly had FISA announced that fact that Baldi found himself 'un-nominated' and de Cesaris took over. Patrese, hardly one of Andrea's number one fans, is said to be distinctly lukewarm about the whole business."

#58 gdecarli

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 14:50

Jean Louis Schlesser was ready to replace Mauro Baldi (again!) on his Spirit #21 at Belgium or San Marino GP, 1984. Of course the reason was only one: money! Spirit went to Zolder without sponsors, Schlesser seemed to have some money to pay...

Now we know that Schlesser never went to Spirit and his only GP was only four years later (Monza 1988, on Mansell's Williams) and that Mauro Baldi went on with Spirit up to Monaco, then he ws replaced by Huub Rothengatter and he was back for the last two GP.

Ciao,
Guido

(from Autosprint 18/1984, page 30 - Belgian GP report)

#59 gdecarli

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 00:10

I found another Emanuele Pirro's "almost moves": he should have raplace Marc Surer on second Brabham from Canada or from French GP. He had some test at Silverstone before Montreal; here follows best times (see Ultimate TEST DRIVER Thread! for the complete table) :
  • 1st Senna (Lotus) 1'07"76
  • 2nd Piquet (Brabham BT54) 1'07"84
  • (...)
  • 14th Marc Surer (Brabham BT54) 1'11"59
  • 15th Emanuele Pirro (Brabham BT54) 1'11"91
  • (...)
Piquet tested from Monday June 3rd to Wednesday 5th, Surer only on Tuesday (cloudy wheater) and Pirro only on Wednesday (maily rainy wheater).

Ciao,
Guido

(from Autosprint 24/1985 page 4 and Autosprint 25/1985 page 20 [Canadian GP report])

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#60 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 11:15

I remember well Thomas Kaiser's F1 ambitions during the mid-1980s. Obviously not of top-notch caliber, but in my opinion he would not have disgraced himself at the top-level. Far from it as I see it.

Before his F3000 days he did two full seasons - 1983 and 1984 - in Formula Two, so he had the necessary experience and despite the lack of podiums, he showed sufficient speed considering the equipment he sat in.

But even in Sweden at the time, many smiled and dismissed his ambitions as wild ideas, but he was nearer to a GP-seat than most realized.

So yes, I would also say that the issuing of superlicences seems to have been rather inconsistent over the years.

Experienced F3000 veteran Akihiko Nakaya was also denied a Brabham seat in the early 1990s, but a certain lady driver was deemed to be worthy of a superlicence and took the seat instead, but she never did any impression. A few years later a certain Jean-Denis Deletraz and "Johnny Carwash" also got their superlicences without much fuzz...

And, this year we have had one certain Zsolt Baumgartner (sorry Geza!)...:)

#61 ensign14

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 12:36

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Experienced F3000 veteran Akihiko Nakaya was also denied a Brabham seat in the early 1990s, but a certain lady driver was deemed to be worthy of a superlicence and took the seat instead, but she never did any impression. A few years later a certain Jean-Denis Deletraz and "Johnny Carwash" also got their superlicences without much fuzz...

There was some consistency, as the rules stated that a driver had to have effectively competed in a season of Euro F3000; Nakaya had not done that, only in Japan - Amati, Deletraz and Lavaggi had (JDD even getting a couple of podia :eek: ). But it seems to have become easier thereafter.

But I cannot see that Kaiser would have been denied a superlicence yet Campos granted one...

#62 Théodore33

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 13:09

Does anyone has a picture of Pirro 's test on board the Brabham-BMW, Wednesday 5th of June 1985 ?

Thanks.

Futhermore, if I remember, Pirro almost signed with Larrousse Lamborghini in 1989. I think he tested the car at Paul Ricard with Jean-Louis Schlesser and GĂ©rard Larrousse wanted him.
Finaly, he signed for Benetton and Alboreto left Tyrrell for Larrousse.
Guido, can you confrm, because I am only sure at 90%.

#63 gdecarli

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 23:18

Here I have all what you want about Pirro... :)

Posted Image

Silverstone, June 5th 1985: Pirro on Brabham-BMW BT54
(from Autosprint 24/1985, page 4)

Posted Image

Silverstone, end of June or begin of July 1989: Pirro on Lola Larrousse Lc89-Lamborghini
(from Autosprint 27/1989, page 13)

On those days at Silverstone some drivers tested Lola:
  • Emanuele Pirro 1'13"16
  • Eric Bernard 1'13"93
  • Alain FertĂ© 1'14"37
  • Jean Louis Schlesser 1'16"87
Yannick Dalmas (second official driver, at that moment) was at Silverstone, but he was not allowed to drive as Larrousse decided to replace him. First driver was Philippe Alliot, but he was not present at this test.
Pirro was ready to race with Lola at next GP (Le Castellet), but after this test many things happened.
Benetton decided to replace Johnny Herbert with Michele Alboreto, but Tyrrell made problems to free him. So Benetton asked Pirro to join them and he accepted. Meanwhile, Tyrrell signed with Camels and Alboreto (Marlboro's driver) decided to leave the team and he was replaced (from France) by Jean Alesi and later also by Johnny Herbert (when Alesi had to race F.3000).
Lola replaced Yannick Dalmas with Eric Bernard (only for France and Great Britain) and later with Michele Alboreto (from Germany). Finally Dalmas replaced Joachim Winkelhock from British GP.

Ciao,
Guido

#64 gdecarli

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 00:15

In recent history, Alessandro Nannini "Almost Moves" from Benetton to Ferrari at the end of 1990, to replace Mansell.
All was ready, but just before to sign, Nannini preferred to stay at Benetton and Ferrari chose Jean Alesi. Few days later Nannini has his accident...
Many years later, he drove again both cars: Ferrari in 1992 and Benetton in 1996 (on this thread you can see a photo)

Ciao,
Guido

#65 Théodore33

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 15:50

:clap :clap: :clap:

Thanks a lot Guido. :blush:

I live near the italy but I don't know the "autosprint" magazine...
It seems to be a very good magazine for the pictures of the nostalgia 80's.

Two last questions about that thread :
- Have you got pictures of Jean-Louis Schlesser and Alain Ferté on board that Larrousse ?
- How is it possible to add pics on this forum ? because I have a few interessant pics, but it would always be interresting for someone.

One more time, Thank.

#66 Geza Sury

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 21:31

First of all: Very nice and interesting contributions, Guido, keep them coming :up:

Originally posted by gdecarli
Emanuele Pirro "almost signed" more than once.
At Brazilian GP (the first one) 1987 Tyrrell #3 was driven by Jonathan Palmer, but from the following one, San Marino GP, this car should have been driven by Pirro.

That's true, initially Palmer only signed for one race, but after he had emerged as the best driver with an atmospheric engine in Brazil, he was given a full-year contract. Palmer went on to win the Jim Clark Cup that year, the championship for non-turbo runners.

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Experienced F3000 veteran Akihiko Nakaya was also denied a Brabham seat in the early 1990s, but a certain lady driver was deemed to be worthy of a superlicence and took the seat instead, but she never did any impression. A few years later a certain Jean-Denis Deletraz and "Johnny Carwash" also got their superlicences without much fuzz...

And, this year we have had one certain Zsolt Baumgartner (sorry Geza!)......

Nakaya only raced in Japan throughout his short carrier. He wasn't a professional racing driver, just a journalist, who started to race cars. And he was already 34 at that time IIRC. I have a very good article somewhere about the life of Nakaya, if somebody would like to read it, I'll try to translate it into English and post it here.

About Baumgartner, I feel the same as Rainer, he has similar race record as Deletraz. But he is somewhat younger :) Nevertheless I still feel pleased to see him in F1...

#67 gdecarli

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 00:40

Originally posted by Théodore33
I live near the italy but I don't know the "autosprint" magazine...
It seems to be a very good magazine for the pictures of the nostalgia 80's.

Autosprint is the most important Italian car racing magazine since 1960s (first issue was September 1961).

My oldest one is #3/1975, with Argenina GP report, the I have very few dated 1975, 1976, 1977. I have nearly all dated 1978, all between october 1978 and august 1980, very few about 1981, 1982, 1983 and nearly all from march 1984 until today.

Originally posted by Théodore33 Two last questions about that thread :
- Have you got pictures of Jean-Louis Schlesser and Alain Ferté on board that Larrousse ?
- How is it possible to add pics on this forum ? because I have a few interessant pics, but it would always be interresting for someone.

I'm sorry, I have no more pics about that test. Autosprint had room for one phot only and they choose Pirro as he is Italian and he was the fastest and he "win" that seat (even if he never used it again!)

As regards pics, at first you have to upload your photo on some server (i.e. you can use a freeweb server). Then you can add a link to that image by clicking on "IMG" button when editing your message: a popup appears, and you input your pic's address.
I'm sorry, tonight my English is not very good :yawn:

Ciao,
Guido

#68 Théodore33

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 15:40

Thanks Guido.

#69 fines

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 15:57

Originally posted by Geza Sury
Nakaya only raced in Japan throughout his short carrier. He wasn't a professional racing driver, just a journalist, who started to race cars. And he was already 34 at that time IIRC. I have a very good article somewhere about the life of Nakaya, if somebody would like to read it, I'll try to translate it into English and post it here.

Yes Geza, if you please... :cat:

#70 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 16:59

Originally posted by Geza Sury
Nakaya only raced in Japan throughout his short carrier. He wasn't a professional racing driver, just a journalist, who started to race cars. And he was already 34 at that time IIRC. I have a very good article somewhere about the life of Nakaya, if somebody would like to read it, I'll try to translate it into English and post it here.


Yes Geza, he was perhaps more of a gentleman racer, but no slouch behind the wheel. After all he was a Japanese F3 champ in 1988 and he also won a F3000 round at Autopolis in 1991. He finished sixth overall and ahead of (F3000-regular) guys like Eddie Irvine and Johnny Herbert.

#71 Geza Sury

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 22:08

This is an article about Akihiko Nakaya, which appeared in a Hungarian motorsport magazine at the beginning of 1992, before the FIA refused Nakaya's claim for the superlicense. It seems he wasn't a bad racing driver after all!

The New "Naka"

After the retirement of Satoru Nakajima, there's a new "Naka" in Grand Prix racing. The name of Japan's new hope is Akihiko Nakaya, who a couple of years had already been involved in Formula One, as a journalist!
Nakaya today is 34 years old. He started his racing carrier twice, first as at the age of 15. Previously he had visited the Japanese Grands Prix at Fuji, but never ever had dared to think of becoming a racing driver. He drove karts, but competed in a very few races. At the age of 22, he started his very first "real" kart race in the 360cc category. Out of his first six races, he finished runner-up three times. The following year he switched to FJ1600 and despite starting a couple of times from pole, he never won a race. In the middle of the season, he turned his back to racing in order to concentrate on his studies. In 1982 he graduated as an engineer.
After that, he chose motor racing journalism as his profession. He interviewed Aguri Suzuki amongst others and perhaps neither of them had thought that a couple of years later they would be opponents on the racetracks.
It was his profession that had brought Nakaya the opportunity to sit in a racing car. As a journalist of the Car Top magazine, he entered a couple of races in the Mitsubishi Cup, to get a real insight in the world of motor racing. Despite all expectations, Nakaya won his very first race. Seeing his season results, Mitsubishi offered a seat in the factory team. The season was a big success: Nakaya was classified third in the championship and won the VW Golf Cup winning each race in the process.
His results brought the attention of Volkswagen Japan, who after a successful test invited him to race in their F3 team. At the end 1988 he was crowned Japanese F3 champion with five wins to his credit. The following season he switched to F3000 to race a Lola. Although he suffered a broken leg in a practice accident at Suzuka, he stayed in the category for further years. In the meantime, he went to race in the Le Mans 24 Hours, his only outings outside Japan. At the end of 1991 he contracted the Brabham team and they signed a contract for the 1992 season. It was not only the talent of Nakaya, which led to the signing of the contract, but the team would also receive sponsorship money from his firm, New Pacific Sports Marketing.
This is how Akihiko sees his chances: "I think I have an enormously difficult job ahead. With exception of Suzuka, I don't know any of the Grand Prix tracks. My ambition is in the first year is to learn the tracks and in the second year to achieve some results. I'm no teenager anymore, so it's hard to realize that I really I have the opportunity to race in F1. I can't wait for the first tests to start. There's no journalist in Japan, who has any doubts in my abilities, so I have to do my best."



Today, Nakaya has his own website, but unfortunately it's Japanese only. I found some more info about him here.

#72 gdecarli

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 00:43

New 1986 "almost moves":
  • Eddie Cheever was ready to drive second Tyrrell, but just before Brazil Tyrrell signed with Philippe Streiff
  • Klaus Ludwig was entered by Zakspeed for European GP only; but he never run any F.1 GP
  • Marc Surer and Derek Warwick were both second drivers at Arrows, but Warwick never had a GP (he went at Brabham after De Angelis's death and he raced in Arrows only from 1987)
  • Mike Thackwell should have driven Ram-Hart
  • Mauro Baldi on Ekstoem-Motori Moderni from Imola (ghost car, it never raced)
  • Alain FertĂ© was ready to replace Christian Danner (he replaced injuried Marc Surer at Arrows) on second Osella from Detroit, but this seat was taken by Allen Berg and (only at Monza) Alex Caffi
  • Philippe Alliot was ready to drive a third Ligier-Renauilt for France GP only, but there were no eniugh engines...
(from Autosprint 8/1986 page 19 - 9/1986 page 16 - 25/1986 page 15 and 25)

Ciao,
Guido

#73 Paolo

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 14:31

Since this is partly a " Thomas Kaiser " thread, I'll say I remember him for two reasons.

1) He sported a beard
2) He hired James Hunt as a driving trainer when he was in F3000

#74 Geza Sury

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 15:58

Wow, Guido, this is impressive :up:

Originally posted by gdecarli
Klaus Ludwig was entered by Zakspeed for European GP only; but he never run any F.1 GP

I never knew that good old Klaus had had Grand Prix ambitions. Did he ever test an F1 car? BTW, which was the European GP in 1986? AFAIK neither Grand Prix wore the title "European" that year. Or was it cancelled?

Originally posted by gdecarli
Mike Thackwell should have driven Ram-Hart

And here's a picture of Mike testing the RAM in Rio:
Posted Image
Click on the picture for a bigger image

Originally posted by gdecarli
Mauro Baldi on Ekstoem-Motori Moderni from Imola (ghost car, it never raced)

Was that car ever completed?

Originally posted by gdecarli
Philippe Alliot was ready to drive a third Ligier-Renauilt for France GP only, but there were no eniugh engines...

Yes, but Alliot joined Ligier two races later replacing the injured Jacques Laffite.

#75 gdecarli

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:48

Originally posted by Geza Sury
I never knew that good old Klaus had had Grand Prix ambitions. Did he ever test an F1 car? BTW, which was the European GP in 1986? AFAIK neither Grand Prix wore the title "European" that year. Or was it cancelled?

There is a little misunderstanding: I mean that he should have driven for all 11 GP raced in Europe, from Spain (April 13th) to Portugal (September 21st). I don't know if he ever tested Zakspeed. I let you know if I find something more...

As regards Ekstroem, I don't think it was never completed. There should be something on old threads here, again I let you know if I find something interesting.

Ciao,
Guido

#76 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 12:56

The the Ekström car was never completed, far from it. They had one full-scale wooden model and a wooden Motori-Moderni dummy. One carbon-fibre tub was ordered from an italian company but it is unclear if they ever actually began to build any.

#77 Paolo

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 15:23

An interesting "what if" was Fulvio Maria Ballabio's supposed move to Spirit-Hart in 1987.
He should have partnered Emerson Fittipaldi (!) and brought with him a Walt Disney sponsorization (Sport Goofy brand).
Ballabio was denied a Super Licence, his top result at the time being a 6th place with prototypes...
He was very strongly linked to Walt Disney Italy , and even appeared , as Fulvio Maria Palladio, in a famous story involving Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge running a F1 team after the old duck failed
to sponsor the... Perrari.

The appearance of Enzo and Forghieri in yellow gloves is something unforgettable.

#78 gdecarli

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 15:46

Paolo, IIRC there is a mistyping: I think you are talking about Emerson Fritticaldi :lol:
For who don't speak Italian, fritti caldi means hot fried (meals).
There is something curious about this matter: this Donal Duck story was issued AFTER Fittipaldi refuse to join Spirit and all that operation failed. Emerson Fritticaldi was Rockerduck's driver: maybe because Walt Disney Italy wanted to "punish" him for his refusal :eek:

I remember also Alfa Marameo, Patrick Tamburay (IIRC), Michele Albereto, Niki Bagnacauda (Bagnacauda is a typical meal from Piemonte) and so on, but it's too difficult for me to explain joke in these names.

Any Italian guy have more detail?

By the way (this is serious!) it was 1984, not 1987.

Ciao,
Guido

#79 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 17:31

An almost moves footnote on the Ekström Team .

Cecilia Ekström was seen in paddocks during the whole 1986 season trying to save her GP-aspirations.

When the American food-giant Beatrice announced changed business strategies and their withdrawal from the sponsorship scene during the 1986 season it meant that the FORCE Lola team was out of action for the 1987 season.

Already before that decision Ekström negociated with Carl Haas about taking over the Hart powered Lola THL1 cars that FORCE had used late in 1985 and in early 1986. Some spares were also included.

400000 USD was needed for the Lola THL1 with a further 125000 USD needed for the Hart engines.

They were however unable to agree on the price and and as usual they did not actually have any funds to purchase the cars with anyway. So in the end their dream of the Ekström GP-team was over almost before it had began.

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#80 Geza Sury

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 18:53

Originally posted by gdecarli
There is a little misunderstanding: I mean that he should have driven for all 11 GP raced in Europe, from Spain (April 13th) to Portugal (September 21st). I don't know if he ever tested Zakspeed. I let you know if I find something more...

Oh, I see. So instead of Ludwig, it was dutchman Huub Rothengatter who competed in the European races alongside Jonathan Palmer that year. It is understandable that Ludwig and Zakowski wanted to make an assault on Formula One together, as they had achieved considerable successes in the DRM (Deutsche Rennmeisterschaft) in the 70s and 80s.

Originally posted by gdecarli
As regards Ekstroem, I don't think it was never completed. There should be something on old threads here, again I let you know if I find something interesting.

There's an interesting, but unfortunately very short thread concerning the Ekström team. If only Rainer could upload the missing picture again...

#81 gdecarli

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 19:05

I found a photo of Emerson Fittipaldi testing a Spirit-Hart at Jacarepaguá in January 1984 (click to enlarge) :

Posted Image Posted Image

Sponsor was Mondadori, one of the most important publisher in Italy and - at that time - owners of Topolino trade mark and magazine (Topolino is Mikey Mouse's Italian name).

By the way, Topolino published on No. 1501 and 1502 (September 2nd and 9th 1984) Zio Paperone e l'avventura in Formula 1 (Uncle Scrooge McDuck and Formula 1 adventure). This is a thumbnail that shows Emerson Fritticaldi's car (click to enlarge) :

Posted Image

Paperino (Donald Duck) drove Turbopaper MK1 (paper = duck), of course owned by Paperon de Paperoni (Scrooge McDuck), powered by Perrari StraTurbo. Championship was driven on the same circuit used in 1984, but with a different final: of course a GP at Paperopoli (Duckburg), of course won by Donald Duck!
Other competitor were Crost, Starnoux, IIRC Pretese and so on...

(all info and pictures from Autosprint 34/1984, page 109)

Ciao,
Guido

#82 gdecarli

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 19:10

More serioulsy...
Both Minardi and Zakspeed could have their first GP in 1984. Minardi-Alfa Romeo was going to be at Monza, maybe with Alessandro Nannini; Zakspeed should have been at NĂĽrburgring with Klaus Ludwig or Christian Danner.
Of course they both failed (Minardi mostly because Alfa Romeo didn't supply engines), so their first GP was only in 1985.

Ciao,
Guido

#83 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 22:26

Originally posted by Geza Sury
If only Rainer could upload the missing picture again...



Well, here it is back on popular demand... :D

A windtunnel model of the 1986 Ekström F1 GP86-01. A poor image but it does show the general layout of the car. RAM03 inspired maybe?

Posted Image

#84 Geza Sury

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 06:53

Thanks a lot Rainer :clap:

Originally posted by gdecarli
Both Minardi and Zakspeed could have their first GP in 1984. Minardi-Alfa Romeo was going to be at Monza, maybe with Alessandro Nannini; Zakspeed should have been at NĂĽrburgring with Klaus Ludwig or Christian Danner.
Of course they both failed (Minardi mostly because Alfa Romeo didn't supply engines), so their first GP was only in 1985.

I've just seen the 1984 Minardi Alfa Romeo in a book. One of my friends travelled to Italy and was lucky enough to find a book about the team's history. The book is large format, mostly pictures, but also informative text in both English and Italian. I've tried to find a book on Ebay and with Bookfinder, but there isn't a single copy available :cry:

#85 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 22:28

Don't know if its been mentioned but here is Eddie Cheever's own words :

"I was 18 years old and running pretty well in Formula 2 when I was invited to test for Ferrari."
"It was pretty secretive. I had to meet a guy in a bar, and then he drove me to the factory. I was taken into Mr. Ferrari's office, and for the first 10 minutes he shuffled papers and didn't speak. I had crashed on a TV race he'd been watching because I kept hitting the curbs, and when he finally spoke to me, he simply said, 'When you drive my cars, you don't drive on curbs.' "I signed a three-year contract with Ferrari. But then he moved Gilles Villeneuve into the F-1 ride because he was older, so I got huffy and puffy and told Mr. Ferrari I wanted out. He said, 'Are you sure?' and then let me out of my contract. "That was the biggest mistake of my life."


#86 Geza Sury

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 08:19

I didn't know that Eddie has actually signed a contract. This is what I have posted in the Eddie Cheever thread a couple of months ago:

I've just learnt that Ferrari was not only interested in Cheever, but Eddie had actually tested Lauda's Ferrari at Maranello in 20th September 1977. It was one day before Gilles Villeneuve got to drive the car. It's interesting to note the even before these two, Mario Andretti also did a test, but eventually decided to stay with Lotus. Any pictures of these tests would be wonderful!



#87 petefenelon

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 11:32

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Don't know if its been mentioned but here is Eddie Cheever's own words :

and when he finally spoke to me, he simply said, 'When you drive my cars, you don't drive on curbs.'


Wasn't it that wonderful 'Prince of Destruction' Gilles who used to come back in with damage to his *outside* wheels because he'd been that far over the kerbs?;)

pete

#88 ensign14

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 14:13

When Alex Caffi was injured at the start of 1990, Bernd Schneider drove the Footwork at Phoenix, but Stefano Modena - contracted to Brabham, who were in financial difficulty - also tested.

Caffi was fit for Brazil, but Autosport had a pic of various decals of drivers' names the Footwork team had on hand there, which suggested that Schneider, Modena, Stefan Johansson and Enrico Bertaggia were considered as reserves just in case.

#89 Geza Sury

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 15:27

Originally posted by petefenelon
Wasn't it that wonderful 'Prince of Destruction' Gilles who used to come back in with damage to his *outside* wheels because he'd been that far over the kerbs?;)

If someone mentions Gilles and the kerbs, it's the 1981 British Grand Prix that jumps to my mind first ;)

Originally posted by Ensign14
When Alex Caffi was injured at the start of 1990, Bernd Schneider drove the Footwork at Phoenix, but Stefano Modena - contracted to Brabham, who were in financial difficulty - also tested.

Caffi was fit for Brazil, but Autosport had a pic of various decals of drivers' names the Footwork team had on hand there, which suggested that Schneider, Modena, Stefan Johansson and Enrico Bertaggia were considered as reserves just in case.

It's interesting, because Johansson was under contract with Onyx, but released from it after the race because of an ownership change. Perhaps Stefan had already known that he would be out of the car pretty soon?

#90 fines

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 16:03

Bernd Schneider was invited (probably amongst others) to drive the Life after Gary Brabham had bailed out.


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#91 ensign14

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 18:05

Originally posted by Geza Sury
It's interesting, because Johansson was under contract with Onyx, but released from it after the race because of an ownership change. Perhaps Stefan had already known that he would be out of the car pretty soon?

Those Autosports were mooting a proposed merger between Brabham and Onyx, which was being denied, but one wonders whether Stefan saw the writing on the wall.

One more thing in them, not really an almost move, but an almost engine & I cannot find that engine thread - the Neotech V12, tested in the back of Walter Brun's Porsche 962 in late March 1990 at the Oesterreichring, with the aim for using it in the EuroBrun later in the year. Other than that the engine was Austrian, no further information. So thank the Lord for those fine people at 8w - especially Mr Nyburg - for a photo & more bumf.

#92 ghinzani

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 20:00

Reading a June 82 issue of Autosport my man Piercarlo was rumored to be having a one off with Fittipaldi at Monza - probably due to the Pirelli connection. I was always surprised Enzo never replaced Palletti, maybe Pioneer had paid the money and asked for the seat to be left empty.

#93 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 04:47

Wasn't Emmanuel Collard suppose to drive the Tyrell around 96 or 97?

#94 Geza Sury

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 10:51

Originally posted by fines
Bernd Schneider was invited (probably amongst others) to drive the Life after Gary Brabham had bailed out...

...but he was hoping to go to Brabham, replacing perhaps the Onyx-bound Gregor Foitek. I've seen an article in the German magazine Rally-Racing titled "Schneider hofft zu Brabham".

#95 Mohican

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 12:07

Have noticed that nobody mentions the greatest what-if-it-had-really-come-off ever:

Ronnie Peterson's almost joining UOP Shadow in early 1975; after Jean-Pierre Jarier had been on pole in the DN5 for the first two races. If that had happened, I do not think that UOP would have left Shadow for 1976 - and then the sky would have been the limit.

Ronne forever.

#96 Geza Sury

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 17:21

Originally posted by Mohican
Have noticed that nobody mentions the greatest what-if-it-had-really-come-off ever:

Ronnie Peterson's almost joining UOP Shadow in early 1975; after Jean-Pierre Jarier had been on pole in the DN5 for the first two races. If that had happened, I do not think that UOP would have left Shadow for 1976 - and then the sky would have been the limit.

It was already mentioned in the original Almost moves thread ;)

In the book "Superswede" Alan Henry mentions the Ronnie Peterson almost swapped places with Tom Pryce in 1976, but finally Peterson stayed at Lotus and Pryce at Shadow. Ronnie even slipped into the Shadow's cockpit at the season opening Brazilian GP.



#97 ensign14

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 13:50

How about Emerson Fittipaldi driving for Williams? Been reading Nick Brittan's Formula Ford book (ÂŁ3 from Hay On Wye!) and Emmo did a chapter. He writes that he met Frank Williams in 1970 with a view to driving a second De Tomaso, but turned it down as he did not feel he was ready at the time.

#98 fines

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 10:02

Seeing this thread I can't help but think of Ralf Schumacher - he almost made a move on his brother during the closing stages of last year's Brazilian GP...

#99 gdecarli

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 01:14

Andrea De Cesaris almost moved to Brabham at end of 1985 (from Monza to last GP).
He could either drive a third Brabham or replace one of existing driver (Nelson Piquet or Marc Surer). There were problems with all solution: Brabham would have problems to have 3 cars, as they had only 5 chassis; he could hardly replace Surer because second driver was already changes (originally he was François Hesnault). He could also replace Piquet, because he had already signed for 1986 with Williams. Andrea was quite sure to manage to drive a Brabham... but he coulnd't do it before 1987!

Ciao,
Guido

(from Autosprint 36/1985 page 23)

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#100 gdecarli

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 01:25

Another "almost move" for 1986.
According to rumors dated September 1985, Jean Sage, Jean Pierre Jabouille and Gerard Ducarouge were going to buy Renault F.1 team (retired at end of 1985). In 1986 they could have Renault engine (of course), Goodyear tyres, Elf as main sponsor plus some American minor sponsors. Of course Ducarouge would have drawn new car. Drivers could have been Patrick Tambay (already in Renault since 1984) and Ayrton Senna. At that time he was in Lotus (as Ducarouge), but he wanted to go on working with Ducarouge, so Ayrton could have followed him in this new team.

Of course nothing happened: Jabouille and Sage had never owned a team, Senna and Ducarouge stayed at Lotus-Renault also in 1986 and Tambay moved to Hass.

Ciao,
Guido

(from Autosprint 38/1985 page 19)