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Mike Beuttler


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#51 Brian O Flaherty

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 08:13

Originally posted by ghinzani
Theres laws against being homophobic these days


:eek: :eek: :eek: U sure ?

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#52 Vicuna

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 08:41

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Funny - I'm not particularly a Gilles Villeneuve fan - and never was in period - but could have sworn that in the Spanish and Monaco GPs both I saw the finest and most memorably intelligent process of race-distance blocking in Grand Prix history.

DCN


So who were you a fan of?

#53 Doug Nye

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 11:32

'Fan' to me infers unreasoning, unswerving adoration.... so I haven't been a particular 'fan' of anybody, other than Dennis Compton and Peter May when I was nobbut a lad...

DCN

#54 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 11:47

Originally posted by Doug Nye
'Fan' to me infers unreasoning, unswerving adoration.... so I haven't been a particular 'fan' of anybody, other than Dennis Compton and Peter May when I was nobbut a lad...

DCN


Ah, the almost invincible (but a bit turgid) Surrey side of the 50s - unfortunately Ferrari are starting to look like that too. I think even a few Surrey fans were getting bored with winning by the end of that run of titles (six was it?). Can we perhaps compare $chumacher to May and Rubens to Compton? No, perhaps not - no-one ever told Denis to throw his wicket away ..... and May was, of course, a Gentleman, not a Player! :D

Anyway, about Mike Beuttler .....

#55 Marc

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 12:11

About Mike Beuttler . The fastest gay ?? :)
Not so bad ? http://www.forix.com...&l=2&r=7312&c=3

#56 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 14:21

Looks like a pretty respectable time to me!

#57 Dave Ware

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 15:48

I remember a Rob Walker race report in which he referred to one of Beuttler's financial backers as being one of his (Walker's) previous partners in team ownership. I think it was Durlacher. So the guy was probably an enthusiast who sponsored a car for the joy of it. Heck, if I were rich, I 'd do it.

Beuttler's team also ran him in F2, and towards the end of the '73 season they got a BMW engine (the domminant engine that year) and Beuttler posted a 4th and a 3rd in a couple of the year's final races. That result is not average.

My personal preference on blocking is that it can be used on occasion - the last few laps of a race, perhaps. My preference is that drivers take the fastest line they have, and if someone is faster, then they finish behind that person. But I realize that this is an outdated point-of-view.

Dave

#58 Bladrian

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 17:16

Originally posted by Dave Ware
But I realize that this is an outdated point-of-view.

Dave


Hey Dave: No need to fret on that score - 'Outdated' is what we DO around here ..... :lol:

#59 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 17:19

I think even a few Surrey fans were getting bored with winning by the end of that run of titles (six was it?).


We Surrey fans NEVER get tired of winning. :)

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#60 Roger Clark

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 19:28

Originally posted by Barry Boor


We Surrey fans NEVER get tired of winning. :)


you might have done if Denis Compton ever played for you, but Middlesex might have been upset.

#61 Doug Nye

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 20:46

Roger - I was too polite to mention that... and the people who were constantly telling Compton to throw his wicket away were those poor devils the team-mates he so consistently ran-out!

DCN

#62 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 20:54

you might have done if Denis Compton ever played for you,



We never needed him!

#63 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 21:00

Well as a Yorkshire fan who would really expect me to know who played for which team of Southern softies? Len Hutton .... now THERE was a batsman! Not to mention FS Trueman "t'finest fast bowler that ever drew breath" (in his own estimation anyway!). And of course Sir Geoffrey ..... :clap:

And I didn't actually say Compton played for Surrey anyway .... :p

#64 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 21:06

I suppose we are getting a little off the point here, but then, I heard a rumour that Mike Beuttler visited both Surrey AND Yorkshire during his lifetime...... :

#65 oldtimer

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Posted 21 August 2002 - 02:55

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Well as a Yorkshire fan who would really expect me to know who played for which team of Southern softies? Len Hutton .... now THERE was a batsman! Not to mention FS Trueman "t'finest fast bowler that ever drew breath" (in his own estimation anyway!). And of course Sir Geoffrey ..... :clap:

And I didn't actually say Compton played for Surrey anyway .... :p


I once saw a fascinating piece of cricket when one F.S.Truman was definitely making Peter May suck on his breath.

#66 dmj

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Posted 21 August 2002 - 09:25

Do you know what is the difference between cricket and sex? Nothing - I watched both but couldn't understand the rules...

#67 Vicuna

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Posted 21 August 2002 - 09:52

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug Nye
[B]'Fan' to me infers unreasoning, unswerving adoration....

Yup, that was the answer I was expecting.

#68 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 14:03

Originally posted by Dave Ware

Beuttler's team also ran him in F2, and towards the end of the '73 season they got a BMW engine (the domminant engine that year) and Beuttler posted a 4th and a 3rd in a couple of the year's final races. That result is not average.

Dave


An interesting point about Beuttler - he was the brother-in-law of MP, serial near-bankrupt, multiple adulterer and car collector/trader/lover Alan Clark, yet nowhere in either volume of Clark's diaries does he mention his brother-in-law's racing career... Mike's death isn't even mentioned.

Struck me as a little odd when I read Clark's diaries; I haven't yet read Backfire so don't know if he ever mentioned him there but one would normally expect a car enthusiast to at least take an interest in the racing career of someone that close to him... perhaps Mike's orientation didn't sit well with Alan's rather vigorous heterosexuality?

pete

#69 ensign14

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 14:22

Originally posted by petefenelon


An interesting point about Beuttler - he was the brother-in-law of MP, serial near-bankrupt, multiple adulterer and car collector/trader/lover Alan Clark, yet nowhere in either volume of Clark's diaries does he mention his brother-in-law's racing career... Mike's death isn't even mentioned.


I never knew that! Perhaps the bits were edited out by the publisher? The diaries were aimed at politicos rather than motorists.

#70 David McKinney

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 18:18

Beuttler once raced a historic Lago-Talbot GP car that Clark owned. I'm fairly sure it was entered by 'Hon Alan Clark' but someone with access to 1971 race programmes would have a better idea

#71 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 22:17

Originally posted by petefenelon


An interesting point about Beuttler - he was the brother-in-law of MP, serial near-bankrupt, multiple adulterer and car collector/trader/lover Alan Clark, yet nowhere in either volume of Clark's diaries does he mention his brother-in-law's racing career... Mike's death isn't even mentioned.

Struck me as a little odd when I read Clark's diaries;


Yes, yet Mr Clark mentions the late Jack Fairman personally & how old he looked in 1990. That was quite simply the last thing I expected to read!

#72 MCS

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 22:11

Whilst I am aware of his alleged homosexuality, there remain a number of unanswered questions concerning the late Mike Beuttler and my idle curiosity has finally got the better of me.

Recently a list of bereaved ex-Formula One drivers failed to mention him and I have regularly noticed that he is “missing” from all sorts of things where you would expect him to be featured in some way.

Even here on TNF I noticed a picture of Graham Hill’s Embassy Lola a while back in a thread, taken in the Silverstone pits – Mike Beuttler’s March 731 was passing. Needless to say, Beuttler didn’t even warrant a mention. For a car so striking I have always found it strange that it only ever seems to appear in start shots – easily recognisable of course because of its distinctive yellow colour.

So few pictures, so few references.

Let’s be honest, he was no slouch. Witness his performances in F3 and F2. He won races against very strong opposition. In F1 he was clearly on a tight budget and practised and raced accordingly I’m sure.

Even his backers – Clarke, Mordaunt, Guthrie and Durlacher – are a mystery. The last named was involved with Rob Walker for a time as we all know, but what prompted him to get involved with the others? And who were Clarke, Mordaunt and Guthrie (ex-racer Malcolm Guthrie’s brother, I believe) and what prompted their involvement?

Why did Beuttler stop when he did? Had the funds dried up? Had he lost the appetite following Cevert’s fatal accident – he’d often toddle along the pitlane and have a chat with the Frenchman I’ve been told.

What made him return – inevitably in a March - to do the Brands Hatch 1000kms in September 1974?

And what happened after that?

Does anybody really know?!

Mark

#73 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 22:35

Clarke, Mordaunt, Guthrie were all stockbroker buddies to Mike B.

No idea, what happened later to them. I guess they continued in their trade.

Some googling. revealed a company called Wedd Durlacher Mordaunt & Co , still doing business, not sure if there is any relation though.


Some info to be found here : http://8w.forix.com/beuttler.html

#74 Ruairidh

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 22:58

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Clarke, Mordaunt, Guthrie were all stockbroker buddies to Mike B.

No idea, what happened later to them. I guess they continued in their trade.

Some googling. revealed a company called Wedd Durlacher Mordaunt & Co , still doing business, not sure if there is any relation though.


Some info to be found here : http://8w.forix.com/beuttler.html



Well, their partnership sold itself to Barclays bank at the time of the UK financial market's big bang in 1986 (was it really that long ago?) and became the W of BZW the Barclays merchant bank -stockbroking-stockjobbing combine.........

#75 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 23:03

Mike died pf AIDS in San Francisco on 29th December, 1988.

#76 Twin Window

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 23:14

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg

Clarke, Mordaunt, Guthrie were all stockbroker buddies to Mike B.

I was always under the impression that they were all gay, but I don't know for sure. Not that it makes any difference to anything.

This is the only shot I ever took of the 'Stock Broker Special' as far as I can determine...

Posted Image

:up:

#77 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 23:40

Originally posted by MCS
.....Clarke, Mordaunt, Guthrie and Durlacher – are a mystery. The last named was involved with Rob Walker for a time as we all know, but what prompted him to get involved with the others?


I hesitate to suggest that it was due to homosexual connections, but I recall that Jack Durlacher was always referred to as a friend of Seppi's rather than a backer of Rob Walker.

I think Rob Walker even referred to him as such in his Road & Track race reports... and DSJ as well.

My point here being that Durlacher was backing his Swiss compatriot rather than the Rob Walker stable.

#78 Mac Lark

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 23:55

We actually had quite a discussion about Beuttler going a year or so ago.

F1 Racing also did a feature on him - perhaps as recently as earlier this year.

#79 Vitesse2

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 00:15

Originally posted by Twin Window
I was always under the impression that they were all gay, but I don't know for sure. Not that it makes any difference to anything.

Not necessarily all, but perhaps some, according to Doug in
this thread, which is the one Mac referred to.

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#80 Mac Lark

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 00:37

The very one V2

#81 Twin Window

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 00:48

I've just read the linked thread with a view to merging it with this one. That was until I endured an unexpected lecture on language, plus a 'bonus' education on the 1950s British County Cricket scene.

Perhaps not, then...

(and I still play cricket!)

#82 Mac Lark

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:14

Where in the order do you bat?

Are there twin windows on your batters helmet?

OK, I'm done - this is NZ where we all disappear to beaches and lakes for 3 weeks.

That includes me...

#83 Hieronymus

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:33

Was someone not planning to do a book on Beuttler?

I recall seeing an advertisement in a magazine (about a year or so ago) where someone was offering "stuff and memoribila" that was gathered over several years with the idea of compiling a book on the life of Mike B. Not sure where I saw this advertisement, must be either AUTOMOBILE HISTORIQUE or the besieged MOTOR SPORT.

Anyone know something about this?

#84 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 07:52

Thanks everyone for their contributions and - wonders never cease - a picture!

But, with all due respect, still very little information and, yes, I'd read the previous thread...

Any more?

Mark

#85 ensign14

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:10

Posted Image

"No, I'm the only gay in the Grand Prix village."

Dunno if there's a mystery about Beuttler - how many sources go into detail about his late 70s GP entry equivalents of Brett Lunger (Vietnam vet, so interesting backstory) or Harald Ertl (who was a journalist himself)? They must have had about the same impact on the GP scene - competent, generally underfinanced, occasionally getting top 10 finishes.

OTOH they are not so obscure/slow as to be interesting in themselves, like Frank Dochnal, or the Otto(rino) pair of Stuppacher and Volonterio.

The big mystery to me is his surname - is it pronounced Butler, Byewttler or Burtler?

#86 Hieronymus

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:23

Originally posted by ensign14

The big mystery to me is his surname - is it pronounced Butler, Byewttler or Burtler?


I would say it is pronounced Boyt-ler. Some German ancestors here??

Who is the chap on the photo? Beuttler in later life?

#87 ensign14

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:37

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Who is the chap on the photo? Beuttler in later life?

This will explain...search for Dafydd in the characters...

#88 David McKinney

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:42

Was it Boytler? - he wasn't German (though nor of course was Royteman)
I thought it was pronounced Bewtler

#89 Hieronymus

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:06

Correct David, I sure know that Beuttler was not German.

I suggested German ancestors. Not so familiar with British surnames, so I just wonder if this surname is quite common in the UK. Perhaps the "ler" part of his surname brought me under the impression that there must be some German connotation. I find that quite a few German surnames end with "ler". Then again, it may be true of surnames in any other language group...

#90 David McKinney

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:30

What I was trying to say was that, even though the name might have been of German origin, I don't think it was pronounced the German way

#91 Nanni Dietrich

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:41

I've seen Mike Beuttler winning at Vallelunga F.2 in Oct. 1971. Two races in a week at the end of the season at the circuit near Rome: first Mad Ronald won (and won the title), for the second race he didn't want to partecipate.
I remember Beuttler's helmet was blue, and at the wheel of a yellow March 712M similar to the yellow car of Ronnie Peterson, he seemed to be Peterson! (if I remember well in the second race he assembled on his March the same noise and wings of Peterson's car, with famous Peterson's sponsor SMOG too!)
In addition, Beuttler was so fast in that two races (4th in the first, winner in second race!) that someone thought he was really Ronnie...
:D

I didn't know he died for AIDS :(

#92 Hieronymus

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 11:01

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich


I didn't know he died for AIDS :(


Slight error here, Nanni.

You can't die for AIDS or for that matter of AIDS, either. One usually die of major physiological malfunction associated with AIDS.

ps. Please also tell this to the president of my country, one Thabo Mbeki. He can't even be convinced that their is a link between the HI virus and AIDS....

#93 Rob29

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 14:15

Originally posted by David McKinney
Was it Boytler? - he wasn't German (though nor of course was Royteman)
I thought it was pronounced Bewtler

Boyt-ler is nearest to how I recall it was pronounced by race comentators at the time. Never met the man myself and never knew he was gay until his death was reported. His race career always seemed to be well funded.

#94 RAP

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 14:35

Boyt-ler is how remember commentators saying it too.

#95 David McKinney

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 15:12

OK, I accept that
I never got within 12,000 miles of his racing, and in fact called him 'boytler' in my head.
But I thought I'd heard 'bewtler' from people here in the UK

#96 Peter Morley

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 15:19

Originally posted by David McKinney
OK, I accept that
I never got within 12,000 miles of his racing, and in fact called him 'boytler' in my head.
But I thought I'd heard 'bewtler' from people here in the UK


I thought I'd heard Bewtler (sounding a bit like pewter).

Wasn't Jack Durlacher a relative of Rob Walker's? Is he the person who lent Rob the money to carry on when the Lotus 49 fire destroyed the workshop?

#97 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 15:23

Originally posted by David McKinney
OK, I accept that
I never got within 12,000 miles of his racing, and in fact called him 'boytler' in my head.
But I thought I'd heard 'bewtler' from people here in the UK


It's not getting any better is it?

We can't even pronounce his name - it was pronounced "Bewtler"

Mark

#98 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 15:25

Originally posted by ensign14
Dunno if there's a mystery about Beuttler


What?! :confused:

Nobody seems to know anything about him or his team...

Mark

#99 ensign14

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 15:56

Originally posted by MCS


Nobody seems to know anything about him or his team...

Well, other than he was Alan Clark's brother-in-law and followed the traditional F3-F2-F1 route...his results in the lower formulae justifying his jump up...he got funding from a bunch of stockbroker mates to modify an F2 March to F1 spec and had a couple of mildly successful years before leaving F1...he was nicknamed "Blocker" for his F3 tactics...it's more than we know about, say, Renzo Zorzi.

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#100 Twin Window

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 16:54

Over the course of the last thirty-five years or so I have never, ever heard his name pronunced any way other than Boyt-ler.