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Mike Beuttler


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#101 Nanni Dietrich

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 17:12

Originally posted by Hieronymus


Slight error here, Nanni.

You can't die for AIDS or for that matter of AIDS, either. One usually die of major physiological malfunction associated with AIDS.

ps. Please also tell this to the president of my country, one Thabo Mbeki. He can't even be convinced that their is a link between the HI virus and AIDS....


Hieronymus, I don't know if also the president of my country, one Silvio Berlusconi, but I'm sure one or two or three Ministers of his Government can't even be convinced that to be a gay is not an illnes, but a natural thing.
Perhaps a lot of Governments in the world need more piece of informations... :rolleyes:

Sorry for the error, I know: I simply translated a sort of idiom.

Back to Mike Beuttler, he drove a March 74S-Ford (as MCS said) at Brands Hatch 1000 Kms 1974, with co-drivers Chris Skeaping and Colin Andrews. And after this race I think he didn't start again.

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#102 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 18:24

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Mike died pf AIDS in San Francisco on 29th December, 1988.




*sigh* Yet another one. He actually died in Los Angeles, as both his death certificate & his mother (still alive) have testified. He was living in San Francisco but died in a LA hospital. I think this is the 5th time I've had to correct people on this now on TNF.

#103 David Holland

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 18:44

Actually Richie, I believe he was living in Broad Beach Road, Malibu at the time of his death which would explain the reason for him passing away in the LA area.
The first instance of San Francisco appearing in print as a place of death appears to be in Alan Henry's Driver By Driver book. I suppose the link with AIDS and the gay community lead to the San Francisco connection via a few assumptions on the way.

#104 SEdward

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 18:52

Can't we just discuss his ability as a driver, irrespective of his sexual preferences?

I certainly remember him as being one of the very best drivers on the British F3 scene in 1970 (see the wonderful photo in the "1-litre F3" thread from the 1970 British GP F3 race which, I believe, he won).

Edward

#105 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:11

Being old enough to have been around when Mike was racing, I must say that the pronunciation of the name, to me and anyone else involved with racing at that time, was always Boyt-ler.

I should have asked him during our chat on the dockside in Dover, I suppose.

#106 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:27

Mike "Boytler" drove FJuniors as early as 1960, then he seems to have disappeared from the racing scene for some years.
Anyone who knows what he did the years, in between, before he reappeared as a top F3-star around 1969-70?

Stefan

#107 David McKinney

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:49

His first races were as a teenaged employee of the Chequered Flag sportscar sales (and racing team) outift. Maybe he didn't race again until he had enough of his own money to do so :lol:

#108 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:04

Originally posted by ensign14
Well, other than he was Alan Clark's brother-in-law and followed the traditional F3-F2-F1 route...his results in the lower formulae justifying his jump up...he got funding from a bunch of stockbroker mates to modify an F2 March to F1 spec and had a couple of mildly successful years before leaving F1...he was nicknamed "Blocker" for his F3 tactics...it's more than we know about, say, Renzo Zorzi.


Point is, Rob, he was around the British scene for quite a while before getting to F1 - again with a British Team - but nobody seems to know very much about him or his team...

Mark

#109 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:06

Originally posted by Twin Window
Over the course of the last thirty-five years or so I have never, ever heard his name pronunced any way other than Boyt-ler.


Twinny, it was certainly pronounced by TV commentators as "boyt-ler" and I've heard it that way from most other people.

But is it "Boytler" and NOT "Bewtler"?

Whatever, we're getting some information now it would seem.

Thanks everybody :up:

Mark

#110 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:11

Originally posted by Barry Boor
.....I should have asked him during our chat on the dockside in Dover, I suppose.


Oh?

How did you respond when he said, "Hello sailor!"?

#111 bill moffat

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:14

Originally posted by David McKinney
His first races were as a teenaged employee of the Chequered Flag sportscar sales (and racing team) outift. Maybe he didn't race again until he had enough of his own money to do so :lol:


This is the interesting bit for me. So there he was in 1960/61 mixing it with fellow Gemini drivers Geoff Duke, Tony Maggs, Graham Warner and Mike Parkes, then the disappearing act for the best part of a decade. On the assumption that he was younger and sharper in the early 60's was his F1 career an example of too little, too late ?

Wasn't Mike also responsible for the UK appearances of that natural race car the Citroen SM ? if so, why and how ?

The first racing Beutler (with a single T) won the 1912 Monte Carlo rally in a Berliet.

#112 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:31

Originally posted by bill moffat
This is the interesting bit for me. So there he was in 1960/61 mixing it with fellow Gemini drivers Geoff Duke, Tony Maggs, Graham Warner and Mike Parkes, then the disappearing act for the best part of a decade. On the assumption that he was younger and sharper in the early 60's was his F1 career an example of too little, too late ?

Wasn't Mike also responsible for the UK appearances of that natural race car the Citroen SM ? if so, why and how ?


Exactly - what happened in the intervening years?

I think it was Mike Beckwith with the Prod Saloon Citroen.

Mark

#113 MCS

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:34

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Oh?

How did you respond when he said, "Hello sailor!"?


:lol:

Oddly enough, I was wondering about this conversation the other day. I had printed Barry's marvellous Connew Story out to re-read (again!) and double-checked to see what the conversation was about, but no content was mentioned.

Barry? Dare I ask?!

Mark

#114 DOHC

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:47

Originally posted by MCS
But is it "Boytler" and NOT "Bewtler"?


When at a 1973 race I tried "Boytler" I got corrected and learned that it was supposed to be "Bewtler". I changed then and there, as I thought it was embarrassing not to be correct. It's surprising that nobody to this very day really seems to know for sure.

#115 Twin Window

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:10

Was whoever corrected you a bloke by the name of Mark Cole? I only wonder because he's the only man on the entire planet to refer to Thierry Boutsen as Thierry 'Bow (as in bend forward) tsen'... :rolleyes:

#116 Ralliart

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:26

Born 13 April 1960 in Cairo, he was, wrote Barrie Gill, "connected with motor racing since 1960 (but) did not start his career proper until 1968...on leaving public school (he) joined the Chequered Flag racing team to help with administration and was even given a chance to race but damaged the car. After this, Mike switched to working for a theatrical agency but was soon back in motor racing as Assistant Secretary to the B.R.S.C.C. In 1966, he rejoined the Chequered Flag but it wasn't until 1968 that he persuaded (Clarke and Mordaunt) to sponsor him in F3."...Third stockbroker recruited in '71 and also Durlacher "Rob Walker's former co-sponsor."

#117 ensign14

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:37

According to Peter Scherer's book Mike had some races in FJ in 1960, came back with a Brabham F3 in 1965 and then raced more regularly in a BT21 in 1967. From then on fairly regular career up to F1 and after then 1973 season he had the one-off 1000km drive before retiring.

#118 Mischa Bijenhof

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:58

Originally posted by Twin Window
Was whoever corrected you a bloke by the name of Mark Cole? I only wonder because he's the only man on the entire planet to refer to Thierry Boutsen as Thierry 'Bow (as in bend forward) tsen'... :rolleyes:


Not the only one Twinny: most Dutchies prounounce it like that, but since I wasn't working in F1 at the time he drove, I have never actually asked him.

#119 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 22:28

Barry? Dare I ask?!


Oh dear! :blush: You know, I have absolutely no recollection of that conversation whatsoever. I mean, I remember the chat, but the content..... :(

What I will say, in answer to the 'Hello, sailor' quip (you wag, Ray!) remember that I was 'only' 23 at the time and can honestly say that although I suppose that by then I must have met various people who would now be bracketed by the term 'gay', I wouldn't have known what they looked like, sounded like or behaved like - and I certainly would NEVER have associated that particular characteristic with a Formula One racing driver.

(No more than I would now......  ;) )

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#120 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 23:44

I know exactly what you mean Barry...

It's very hard to put the sight of Bill Patterson skating around a tree-lined Bathurst at 2:28.5 in his older style Cooper with the 2.5 engine while racing against later model cars with 2.7 engines... not to mention him being fastest of all down the bumpy Conrod Straight with its gutters, trees and barbed wire fences either side of him at a whisker under 170mph just before the car gets all tippy-toe and light over the final hump... very hard to to put that vision into the picture of a man with a boyfriend... how Gerald Patterson must have rolled in his grave.

#121 Roger Clark

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 00:38

Each year in the early 1960s Michael Beuttler wrote a series of articles about the Chequered Flag stables racing the previous year. The first of these appeared in February 1959. He says that he joined the Flag as an 18 year old in February 1958. The series continued until 1962 (I think) and provide an interesting record of the team's exploits. THe 1962 article was in two parts, each of five pages. I can't imagine Autosport devoting similar space to a private team thse days.

I think that Beuttler was only an occassional driver, although he did drive one of the cars in testing in the first year. This picture comes from the 1959 article. Beuttler is second from the left.

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#122 DOHC

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:17

Originally posted by Twin Window
Was whoever corrected you a bloke by the name of Mark Cole? I only wonder because he's the only man on the entire planet to refer to Thierry Boutsen as Thierry 'Bow (as in bend forward) tsen'... :rolleyes:


Can't remember who told me.

As for Boutsen, I always said "Bowtsen" as this is the pronunciation I learned when I worked in Holland. There are of course some regional differences in Dutch and Flemish pronunciation, but I'd be surprised if the pronunciation "Boot-san" would be correct anywhere except in ... Japan. ;)

#123 ReWind

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:39

It definitely is "Boot-sen", not "Bowt-sen". I remember when Arrows presented their new car for Marc Surer and Thierry Boutsen in German TV show "Das aktuelle Sport-Studio" (ZDF, late 1985 or early 1986) and the moderator addressed the Belgian as "Bowt-sen". He was on the spot corrected for the right pronunciation (I think by a representative of BMW - presumably Dieter Stappert, but I'm not sure about that).

#124 Darren Galpin

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:40

Originally posted by DOHC


Can't remember who told me.

As for Boutsen, I always said "Bowtsen" as this is the pronunciation I learned when I worked in Holland. There are of course some regional differences in Dutch and Flemish pronunciation, but I'd be surprised if the pronunciation "Boot-san" would be correct anywhere except in ... Japan. ;)


But his name is French, and he was born in Brussels, so one assumes he pronounces his name the French way? Hence "Boot-sen"?

#125 Rob Ryder

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 09:24

To bring this thread back to Mike.. here are a couple I took of him.

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After practice 1972 British GP, Brands Hatch (poor quality :cry: )

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1973 British GP at Silverstone in the CMGD March 731

#126 DOHC

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 10:12

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
But his name is French


Thierry is undoubtedly French, but Boutsen is Flemish. Oh well, from the language point of view that area is rather messy. Few people speak proper lingua franca. :)

#127 MCS

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 10:59

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
To bring this thread back to Mike.. here are a couple I took of him.


Pictures :clap: ...so somebody did take some!

Cheers Rob - like the 731 shot.

Mark

#128 Paul_H

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 13:10

Nice pictures Rob ! :up: The quality is not so bad ;)

#129 AAA-Eagle

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 14:02

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
I've seen Mike Beuttler winning at Vallelunga F.2 in Oct. 1971. Two races in a week at the end of the season at the circuit near Rome: first Mad Ronald won (and won the title), for the second race he didn't want to partecipate.
I remember Beuttler's helmet was blue, and at the wheel of a yellow March 712M similar to the yellow car of Ronnie Peterson, he seemed to be Peterson! (if I remember well in the second race he assembled on his March the same noise and wings of Peterson's car, with famous Peterson's sponsor SMOG too!)
In addition, Beuttler was so fast in that two races (4th in the first, winner in second race!) that someone thought he was really Ronnie...
:D


From our 8W Nostalgia game :

Posted Image

#130 Gert

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 14:36

Originally posted by DOHC


Thierry is undoubtedly French, but Boutsen is Flemish. Oh well, from the language point of view that area is rather messy. Few people speak proper lingua franca. :)


In the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, he was always "Bow-tsen", in the French-speaking part, it was always "Boot-sen"...

--

He once appeared in a TV show on Flemish TV, and there he introduced himself: "Hallo, ik ben Thierry Boutsen" - "Hi, i'm Thierry Bow-tsen" ...

Of course, when on a Frebch TV show, he may have introduced himself as "Boo-tsen" too...

#131 Stephen W

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 14:56

My memories are of a hard-charging no-nonsense driver.

I wasn't aware at the time of his sexual orientation but there again it didn't matter. :stoned:

His 'nickname' round the paddock was 'Boots' or 'Bootsie'. He was always happy to chat about motor sport especially if you showed you knew what you were talking about.

I wasn't a fan as I thought his tactics at times were questionable and well remember him shoving Gerry Birrell off at the Thruxton chicane in an F2 race.

He never really delivered on track but I assume his backers were happy about pumping money into 'his team'.

#132 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 18:58

Originally posted by David Holland
Actually Richie, I believe he was living in Broad Beach Road, Malibu at the time of his death which would explain the reason for him passing away in the LA area.
The first instance of San Francisco appearing in print as a place of death appears to be in Alan Henry's Driver By Driver book. I suppose the link with AIDS and the gay community lead to the San Francisco connection via a few assumptions on the way.


Sorry, David, that's right. I remember you telling me the normally spot-on Alan Henry making that blooper. (I blame the brandy in the Christmas pudding I bought over here - I haven't been the same since.) :|

#133 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 10:59

Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?

#134 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 11:45

Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?


I don't know if he did... but...

A number of people would have done, and it sounds pretty appropriate.

#135 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:11

Originally posted by Ray Bell

A number of people would have done, and it sounds pretty appropriate.

I don't think Raymond Mays was choosing the dri...oh, wait, you mean because he was British? I see.

#136 Rob29

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:19

Originally posted by ensign14
I don't think Raymond Mays was choosing the dri...oh, wait, you mean because he was British? I see.

Don't follow this at all.By then Mr.Stanley was runing BRM and used all french drivers in 1974.

#137 Twin Window

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:21

I think Ensign's referring to to R Mays' reputation as a prolific shirt-lifter.

#138 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:22

Because he understood the import of my post...

#139 Twin Window

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:25

Originally posted by ensign14

... because he was British?

He was Egyptian, born in Cairo.

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#140 David McKinney

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 15:35

In spite of the previous posting, he was British (though born in Cairo)

#141 David Lawson

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 22:06

My only photograph of Mike Beuttler from the 1973 British GP. Apologies for a low quality scan of a grainy negative

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David

#142 MCS

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 19:44

Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?


Really :confused:

Never heard this before...

Anybody?

Mark

#143 MCS

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 20:16

Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?


Apologies for bringing this back up to the top once again, as it were, but does anybody have any more information on this?

(Did it really happen?)

Thanks
Mark

#144 conjohn

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 12:06

This is what I have of Beuttler from Sweden 1973.

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Posted Image

#145 phinorman

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 18:26

Hello all readers !

I'm the french man who has a serious project to write a book about Mike Beuttler life ; yes, I had written a little text in AUTOMOBILE HISTORIQUE about this with a Monaco 72 photo car of Mike and a "petite annonce" to search informations and photos.

I try to have the much more photos (amateurs inclued) an articles about Mike Beuttler, his team and all others informations.

Your exchanges in this forum are and will be very precious for me.

I send you this web adress to look after the serious target of my project (french text on web but I think to write in french and english for the book).

http://monsite.wanad...-mike-beuttler/

Yours sincerely !

#146 Rob Ryder

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 19:08

Great news Philippe, and good luck with the book. Your website is very interesting, but it is a shame that the photos are not bigger. :(

You can use the two photos I posted to this thread, either on your website or in a book.
If you would like larger copies (1200 pixel) just drop me an email.

Rob

#147 phinorman

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 19:32

Hello all readers !

Sorry, I miss this :

HAPPY 2005 to you ! :clap:

#148 MCS

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 20:36

Best of luck with your book Philippe !!!

My question regarding whether or not Mike tested a BRM still remains unanswered - do you know the answer?

(Perhaps I'll send you a PM in French)


Bon chance!

Mark

#149 phinorman

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 09:13

Hello MCS !

Many thanks for your "encouragements".

Your information about Mike Beuttler's test for B.R.M. is a new for me ; I think to have precisions if I could chat with ex-B.R.M. driver Henri Pescarolo about Mike.

A scoop ? > Mike has driven a Rawlson-Ford in 1975 Nurburgring 1000 kms during practice with Ivon Goodwin (not qualified) and in 1977 he has raced with Walter Brun in Monza 4 hours on BMW 320 (fourth position). :wave:

Yours sincerely !

Phinorman / Philippe Vogel

#150 st59cz

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 10:28

1977 he has raced with Walter Brun in Monza 4 hours on BMW 320 (fourth position



i doubt about this, i mean it was swiss driver Beutler.