15 replies to this topic

[Vitesse2]

Yes, that's right, 1935! Most of us are probably aware of Clemente Biondetti's interesting experiment at slotting a Jaguar engine into a Ferrari in 1950, but I recently came across this in an old issue of "The Autocar", from March 22nd 1935.



In case you're wondering - the blunt end is the front!

It was apparently to have a 60-degree UNSUPERCHARGED, AIR-COOLED V12 engine, with twin ohc, two valves per cylinder and three carbs. Bore and stroke are quoted at 79*100mm, engine weight just 265 kilos.

It also seems to have been a proto-monocoque "the whole car being part of a singular tubular steel backbone", with a wheelbase of 2.55 metres and a track of 1.39 metres.

It was alleged to be testing shortly, with an entry planned for Tripoli on May 12th. However, there is no sign of it on the entry list in Sheldon, the only non-arrivals being Howe's Maserati and Lehoux' SEFAC (inevitably).

Now, as we know, stories like this circulate all the time, but this has a more definite source than most - none other than Johnny Lurani.

So, was it real, or just rumour? Did it run? If so, does it still exist? Or what happened to it?

Edited by Vitesse2, 14 July 2011 - 22:45.

[Hans Etzrodt]

The issue date was March 22nd 1935.
So.........


.....by April 1, everybody had this issue in hand.

[Vitesse2]

I did consider the possibility of an April Fool. However, as the other story in the column concerns the Alfa Romeo bimotore which, to the uninitiated, would have been even more fantastical, I dismissed it, especially as they would have also published an issue on March 29th.

I have emailed you the whole article Hans.

[Ray Bell]

One thing's for sure...

Many of today's drivers would welcome the sight of that long tail in front of them.

Nerfing opportunities without getting too up close and personal with any wheels...

[Hans Etzrodt]

The new car by Clemente Biondetti.
Clemente Biondetti prepares a new racing car, in which a 12-cylinder engine in V-shape with six liter capacity will be installed. At 4800 rpm it should produce up to 400 hp. It is equipped with three carburetors.

With this car, Biondetti wanted to race at Tripoli but the car does not conform with the latest regulations and can therefore not enter at this race. Whereto will this new car go? To the Avus? Or to Tunis?

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE No.36, pg.3 from March 29, 1935 and no picture.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
The new car by Clemente Biondetti.
Clemente Biondetti prepares a new racing car, in which a 12-cylinder engine in V-shape with six liter capacity will be installed. At 4800 rpm it should produce up to 400 hp. It is equipped with three carburetors.

With this car, Biondetti wanted to race at Tripoli but the car does not conform with the latest regulations and can therefore not enter at this race. Whereto will this new car go? To the Avus? Or to Tunis?

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE No.36, pg.3 from March 29, 1935 and no picture.

The regulations bit is a trifle baffling - was it under 750Kgs then? Seems unlikely as the Formula had started in 1934 and been known since 1932!

And this is purely circumstantial, but 1935 represents a blip in Biondetti's racing record. In 1934 he raced in eight GPs, as far away as France and Morocco. In 1936, he took in most of the Italian races, plus the Swiss GP. But in 1935? Just one entry, in an old Alfa, in the Marne GP, where he posted a DNA.

Curious ....

[dretceterini]

Lurani was my uncle, and I know nothing about this car. It loooks to me like a plan that never left the drawing board.

[Doug Nye]

...just reviving this old post, having just come across the 1935 'Autocar' photograph and mention while seeking something else - and therefore punching the TNF 'search' button (you see, I'm learning fast).

Do any of our Italian friends perhaps know any more about Biondetti's muted season of 1935.....????

DCN

[Vitesse2]

And after an even longer interval ...

I can say with near-certainty that this was not an April Fool. On January 4th 1935, the Italian sporting newspaper Il Littorale reported that Biondetti had severed his ties with Gruppo San Giorgio and was perhaps going to return to racing in voiturettes. He was also apparently involved in "una potenta vettura di nuova construzzione". See column 8, half-way down:

http://emeroteca.con...de/6&f=2215&p=2

Then in column 3 on this page, you can find a reference to his "famosa 12-cylindri" car (or is that Italian sarcasm?). My Italian is almost non-existent, but I think it says he's got finance problems with it and is preparing a Talbot to race at AVUS instead?

http://emeroteca.con...de/6&f=2314&p=2

[ERault]

Thank you so much for the link, this looks like a treasure trove. Probably a dumb question, but is there a way (or a place) to keep track of old newspapers archives worldwide ?

[dax]

Thank you so much for the link, this looks like a treasure trove. Probably a dumb question, but is there a way (or a place) to keep track of old newspapers archives worldwide ?

This can be a good starting point : Free Newspaper Archives.
Beeing into pre-war racing, those are my favourite readings:

• Spain
  
  • El Mundo Deportivo
  • Memoria Digital de Catalunya
  • Biblioteca Nacional (search engine)
• France
  
  • Bibliothèque nationale de France
• Italy
  
  • Emeroteca CONI
• USA
  
  • Chronicling America

This is only the starting point, there are also a lot of German and Russian sources, that I'm not able to understand unfortunately

[Vitesse2]

It appears Clemente may have persisted with this for longer than I thought. This is a quote from Motor Sport, January 1937, page 76:

Biondetti has given up his plans of building his own GP racer on Auto Union lines and will probably drive for the Scuderia Ferrari next year.

So there may be odd snippets about it in 1936 as well.

I've also uploaded the original picture again, for those who never saw it. I have found another sketch of the thing, but it's even less detailed. "Back of a fag packet" stuff!

[David McKinney]

Shorten the tail, put the windscreen on the other side of the cockpit, and you've got a 250F

Seriously, there must be information out there somewhere

[Perruqueporte]

Yes, that's right, 1935! Most of us are probably aware of Clemente Biondetti's interesting experiment at slotting a Jaguar engine into a Ferrari in 1950, but I recently came across this in an old issue of "The Autocar", from March 22nd 1935.



In case you're wondering - the blunt end is the front!

It was apparently to have a 60-degree UNSUPERCHARGED, AIR-COOLED V12 engine, with twin ohc, two valves per cylinder and three carbs. Bore and stroke are quoted at 79*100mm, engine weight just 265 kilos.

It also seems to have been a proto-monocoque "the whole car being part of a singular tubular steel backbone", with a wheelbase of 2.55 metres and a track of 1.39 metres.

It was alleged to be testing shortly, with an entry planned for Tripoli on May 12th. However, there is no sign of it on the entry list in Sheldon, the only non-arrivals being Howe's Maserati and Lehoux' SEFAC (inevitably).

Now, as we know, stories like this circulate all the time, but this has a more definite source than most - none other than Johnny Lurani.

So, was it real, or just rumour? Did it run? If so, does it still exist? Or what happened to it?

I seem to remember reading that this Biondetti creation was to be powered by an air-cooled engine based on 12 X 500cc Manx Norton barrels and heads
which would make the horsepower estimate/claim about right, given that at that time Norton was extracting a reliable 70+bhp/litre from its machines. Or am I referring to another Biondetti enterprise?

Christopher Wigdor

[Vitesse2]

That looks a strong possibility, given the quoted bore and stroke in Autocar, which matches the Norton Cammy development line that starts with the CS1 and leads to the International and Manx.

[fivestar]

Interesting to note that Clemente Biondetti purchased an 1100cc Alta engine #22s, which was dleivered to him on 15th August 1934 for installation in a boat. the engine weight was 309lbs.
Wonder what happened to it?