63 replies to this topic

[Don Capps]

Someone has asked me about this organization:

Do you know of the origin and a compilation of the members of this loose knit organization?

Once upon a time I kept up with this group simply because they seemed to always be having fun when they got together. I am sure I have a general idea about the origins, etc., but not some of the specifics. Any takers?

[Paul Medici]

Don

Phil Hill was recently elected president. Baron de Graffenreid had held the position for 22 years.
Louis Chiron founded the club but I don't know when.
It is called Club Internationale des Anciens Pilotes de Grand Prix F1.

Source: FORZA #40.

PJM

[fastgerhard]

Phil Hill is currently the president of the Anciennes Pilotes.
What would you like to find out? I often meet with Phil and I'll be glad to ask him.

[Ray Bell]

I was going to say I thought Louis Chiron was behind it in the beginning... I have recollections of DSJ mentioning a meeting at Monaco.

But I have to learn not to trust my memory, don't I?

fastgerhard, please check your PMs...

[marhal]

I think the club was founded in the mid sixties, because in a photo I saw Farina..................I believe it was in 1965-66, but I have no idea that the club still exists.................

[Ralliart]

The Club International des Anciens Pilotes de Grand Prix was formed in 1962 at the Roc d'Orsay restaurant in Villars, Switzerland by Fangio, Chiron and de Graffenried. To celebrate the 25th anniversary of its forming, in September 1987 the following assembled in Villars:
Fangio, de Graffenried, Albert Obrist (host), Froilan Gonzales, Stirling Moss, Manfred von Brauchitsch, Phil Hill, Dan Gurney, Bob Bondurant, Carroll Shelby, Luigi Chinetti, Jack Brabham, Tony Brooks, Paul Frere, Huschke von Hanstein, Johnny Lurani, Robert Manzon, Roy Salvadori, Maurice Trintignant, Olivier Gendebien, Clay Regazzoni, Reine Wisell, Cliff Allison, Giorgio Scarlatti, Roberto Mieres, Ginannini Marzotto, Maria Teresa de Filippis, Jean Sage, David Piper, Dick Attwood, Jean Guichet, Ramos da Silva, Tim Parnell, Gino Munaron, Les Leston, Duncan Hamilton, David Hampshire, Bruce Halford, Bob Gerard, Giovanni Guidotti and Willy Daetwyler
Prince Rainier, Prince Bertil, Prince Metternich, Duke of Kent and King Carlos were listed as honorary members while Lauda and Stewart sent their regrets

[fines]

Huschke von Hanstein? Now that's stretching it a bit...

[Doug Nye]

Other than stretching the right arm, fingers extended, at 45 degrees towards the cumulo-nimbus why should mention of the Baron be stretching it a bit? He was pretty useful as a driver both sides of the Second World War, and he was, after all, a Mille Miglia winner - albeit a rather pale imitation Mille Miglia around the Brescia circuit in 1940...

The Ancient Pilots' club was really promoted by 'Toulo' de Graffenried from his home in Lausanne. The European HQ of Phillip Morris - Philip??? - the Marlboro people - was nearby and he blagged considerably support from them for various Association events. The historic demo before the 1974 (???) French GP at Dijon was quite a bunfight with Marlboro providing the champagne and buns, and then the Montreux historic event in the mid-'70s was a tremendous success with Marlboro - I believe - still providing the thin-sliced cucumber sandwiches and prizes for everybody. The delightful Maria-Theresa de Filippis was efective Hon. Secretary of the Association for many years until recent times, and may still be for all I know. Her husband Theo helped considerably. He seemed a v. well-adjusted chap. Used to introduce himself cheerfully as "I'm Theo - Mr de Filippis".

DCN

PS - Gil Bouffard asked me about this. Gil - your e-mail reply thingummy doesn't work.

[Ralliart]

Tobias Aichele, is his "Huschke von Hanstein The Racing Baron", wrote:
"Membership (in the Club International des Anciens Pilotes de Grand Prix - that is what the crest shows) was strictly limited to former race drivers with suitable career histories. Besides F1 drivers, it also admitted Mille Miglia and Le Mans winners. As such, Huschke...attended every annual meeting, always held in conjunction with some spectacular event. Often, this was the Monaco F1 race; at other times they were guests of Enzo Ferrari or Giovanni Agnelli in Italy. Louis Chiron served as president for many years, followed by Baron Toulo de Graffenried, but the 'real mover and shaker was Maria Teresa de Filippis'...Prince Louis Napoleon and...Bernard Cahier...played an important social role; the latter owned a chalet in Villars-sur-Ollon, where he welcomed as guests old campaigners as well as the younger generation of Formula 1 pilots."

[alfredaustria]

Hi - Some questions to the "Club International des Anciens Pilotes". Perhaps anyone can help?
Last year Jochen Mass was elected as new president?
Who is the secretary?
Does the club have a web-page? I have not found anything.
Is there any membership list existing?
How can I correspond? Is there any address of secretary, like BRDC?

Thanks for your help.
Regards from Vienna
Alfred :wave:

[Patrick Fletcher]

A member lives very close by.
I shall call him in the morning and ask for you.

[Vitesse2]

There seem to be contradictory stories about the exact foundation of the "blue blazers". One source I've seen suggests that there were nine founder members and I suspect that the reason Chiron, Fangio and de Graffenried are the names usually mentioned is that they were the club's first officers: others who were present appear to have been Albert Divo, Paul Frère, Giuseppe Farina and Gianfranco Comotti. That makes seven - who might the other two have been?

[David McKinney]

I'm sure von Brauchitsch was an early attendee - though perhaps as a guest

[john winfield]

Raymond Mays perhaps?

[layabout]

The CIAPGPF1 , Grand Prix Drivers Club was founded in 1962. The founder members
were Louis Chiron, Gianfranco Comotti , Albert Divo , Juan Manuel Fangio , Nino Farina ,
Paul Frere , Toulo de Graffenried , Yves Giraud-Cabantous , and Robert Manzon .

Louis Chiron was the first President , from 1962 until 1979. He was succeeded by Toulo
de Graffenried who held the Presidency until 2002 , when Phil Hill was elected to the
position. Following Phil's death , Jochen Mass was President from 2008 until 2012 .
Juan Manuel Fangio was President d' Honour from 1962 until 1995 .

Maria Teresa de Fillipis was Vice President from 1997 until 2011 , and was then elected
to the position of President d' Honour. Her husband , Theo Huschek is Secretary General.

The longest serving member , and the only founder still living , is Robert Manzon.

[Vitesse2]

Thanks very much!

[layabout]

Anciens Pilotes at Mike Sparken's villa in 2004. Perhaps a contest for placing names to faces???

Edited by layabout, 10 April 2013 - 15:21.

[Gabrci]

Anciens Pilotes at Mike Sparken's villa in 2004. Perhaps a contest for placing names to faces???

Okay, let's try:

Standing:
Roy Salvadori, David Piper, Tony Brooks, Eric Thompson, Mike MacDowel, Phil Hill, Paul Frere, Bob Bondurant, Howden Ganley, Reine Wisell, Nano da Silva, Mike Sparken, Nanni Galli, JP Beltoise, ?, Francois Mazet, Teddy Pilette

Sitting:
Maurice Trintignant, Gino Valenzano ??, MTdF, Stirling Moss, ?, Cliff Allison ??, Tim Parnell

Front:
Bitito Mieres

[layabout]

Okay, let's try:

Standing:
Roy Salvadori, David Piper, Tony Brooks, Eric Thompson, Mike MacDowel, Phil Hill, Paul Frere, Bob Bondurant, Howden Ganley, Reine Wisell, Nano da Silva, Mike Sparken, Nanni Galli, JP Beltoise, ?, Francois Mazet, Teddy Pilette

Sitting:
Maurice Trintignant, Gino Valenzano ??, MTdF, Stirling Moss, ?, Cliff Allison ??, Tim Parnell

Front:
Bitito Mieres

Wow, your last name gave you away....

[Gabrci]

Wow, your last name gave you away....

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you mean

[layabout]

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you mean

I assume you are related to Roberto Mieres & therefore might have had some first hand contact with Les Anciens Pilotes.

[alfredaustria]

The missing name (sitting) close to Stirling Moss: Isn't it Richard Attwood?

[Gabrci]

I assume you are related to Roberto Mieres & therefore might have had some first hand contact with Les Anciens Pilotes.

I'm sorry to disappoint you but I have nothing to do with Mr. Mieres (or any other gentleman on the picture for that matter)

[raceannouncer2003]

The missing name (sitting) close to Stirling Moss: Isn't it Richard Attwood?

I believe it is Bernard Cahier.

Vince H.

[Kingsleyrob]

The missing name (sitting) close to Stirling Moss: Isn't it Richard Attwood?

I think you'll find Richard is fourth from the left, standing, Alfred.

Rob

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 11 April 2013 - 05:32.

[Gabrci]

I think you'll find Richard is fourth from the left, standing, Alfred.

Rob

I think it's more likely to be Eric Thompson, the gentleman on the picture would be way too old to be Richard Attwood.

[Paul Taylor]

Isn't that also De Graffenreid on the left of Paul Frere, rather than Phil Hill?

[raceannouncer2003]

Isn't that also De Graffenreid on the left of Paul Frere, rather than Phil Hill?

No, I think it's Hill.

Vince H.

[Kingsleyrob]

I think it's more likely to be Eric Thompson, the gentleman on the picture would be way too old to be Richard Attwood.

I'm sticking with Richard Attwood, Gabrci!

I thought for a moment the gentleman at the front with his thumb up could be Froilan Gonzalez, but wouldn't put money on it...
http://www.caranddri...icio-la-leyenda

Rob

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 12 April 2013 - 07:12.

[Alan Cox]

I don't see Richard Attwood in the picture at all, Rob. If you enlarge the pic, the gentleman is too old to be Dickie Attwood (as well as being too short), and I would go along with Garbci's offer of Eric Thompson as being correct.

Edited by Alan Cox, 12 April 2013 - 15:42.

[alansart]

I'm sticking with Richard Attwood, Gabrci!

Rob

Rob,

It looks like Eric Thompson http://www.junglekey...(racing_driver)

I saw Richard Attwood at Donington last week and although he had his flat on appeared to have a bit more hair than on that photo (of Thompson) 9 years ago.

Edited by alansart, 12 April 2013 - 12:59.

[Richard Jenkins]

It's definitely Thompson. Besides Attwoods eyebrows are more bushy.

[Kingsleyrob]

It's definitely Thompson. Besides Attwoods eyebrows are more bushy.

Ok chaps, pass the humble pie, large portion. I clearly don't know my Attwood from my elbow, apologies.

In my defence I've only been viewing the photo on my phone, but I didn't pitch in lightly, it looked like a Dickie demeanour to me too, usual happy smile. I should have gone to Specsavers eh?

So who's the pilote with his thumb in the air?

Incidentally Richard it is possible to trim eyebrows you know. Perhaps you've never had to. I have. And I'm only 23.

Rob

[alansart]

Incidentally Richard it is possible to trim eyebrows you know. Perhaps you've never had to. I have. And I'm only 83.

Rob

He still has the eyebrows.

[Kingsleyrob]

I'm still cringing with embarrassment and daren't look at the photo on my sizeably screened laptop as I'm sure it would exacerbate said embarrassment. Not to mention crediting Dickie with an extra twenty years or so on his age. Apologies if you lurk, Richard, and to Gabrci for challenging your initial identification.

It does look a bit like him on the phone though honest. My ickle screen doesn't show up bushy eyebrows...

Now where's that stone?

Rob

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 12 April 2013 - 15:43.

[Gabrci]

So who's the pilote with his thumb in the air?

I think Vince is right, it should be Bernard Cahier. Now we are only missing the gentleman between Beltoise and Mazet.

[Kingsleyrob]

Does he look different when he is on the 'phone?

Don't rub it in Alan! And yes, he looks twenty years older.

It couldn't be any worse, I've always had a soft spot for him after being in my favourite team of the 60s, BRM, and was delighted to exchange a few words with him at one of the excellent Enstone film shows a few years back. I think it was him anyway.

Rob

[Graham Gauld]

I think Vince is right, it should be Bernard Cahier. Now we are only missing the gentleman between Beltoise and Mazet.

The driver is Jean Guichet who qualified as a Le Mans winner

[ReWind]

Because they were the „anciens pilotes“ maybe we should give their respective ages at the time of this photo [assuming it was shot in the summer of 2004]:

Standing:
Roy Salvadori 82, David Piper 73, Tony Brooks 72, Eric Thompson 84, Mike MacDowel 71, Phil Hill 77, Paul Frère 87, Henry Taylor 71, Howden Ganley 62, Reine Wisell 62, Nano da Silva Ramos 78, „Mike Sparken“ 74, Nanni Galli 63, Jean-Pierre Beltoise 67, Jean Guichet 76, François Mazet 61, Teddy Pilette 62
Sitting [on chairs]:
Maurice Trintignant 86 (he died in February 2005), Gino Valenzano 84, Maria-Teresa de Filippis 77, Stirling Moss 74, Cliff Allison 72 (he died in April 2005), Tim Parnell 72
Front [sitting, kneeling]:
Roberto Mieres 79, Bernard Cahier 77

EDITED: Changed Bondurant for Taylor (see the next post).

Edited by ReWind, 17 April 2013 - 15:33.

[layabout]

Because they were the „anciens pilotes“ maybe we should give their respective ages at the time of this photo [assuming it was shot in the summer of 2004]:

Standing:
Roy Salvadori 82, David Piper 73, Tony Brooks 72, Eric Thompson 84, Mike MacDowel 71, Phil Hill 77, Paul Frère 87, Bob Bondurant 71, Howden Ganley 62, Reine Wisell 62, Nano da Silva Ramos 78, „Mike Sparken“ 74, Nanni Galli 63, Jean-Pierre Beltoise 67, Jean Guichet 76, François Mazet 61, Teddy Pilette 62
Sitting [on chairs]:
Maurice Trintignant 86 (he died in February 2005), Gino Valenzano 84, Maria-Teresa de Filippis 77, Stirling Moss 74, Cliff Allison 72 (he died in April 2005), Tim Parnell 72
Front [sitting, kneeling]:
Roberto Mieres 79, Bernard Cahier 77

The man between Paul Frere & Howden Ganley is Henry Taylor, not Bob Bondurant.

[D-Type]

Because they were the „anciens pilotes“ maybe we should give their respective ages at the time of this photo [assuming it was shot in the summer of 2004]:

Standing:
Roy Salvadori 82, David Piper 73, Tony Brooks 72, Eric Thompson 84, Mike MacDowel 71, Phil Hill 77, Paul Frère 87, Bob Bondurant 71, Howden Ganley 62, Reine Wisell 62, Nano da Silva Ramos 78, „Mike Sparken“ 74, Nanni Galli 63, Jean-Pierre Beltoise 67, Jean Guichet 76, François Mazet 61, Teddy Pilette 62
Sitting [on chairs]:
Maurice Trintignant 86 (he died in February 2005), Gino Valenzano 84, Maria-Teresa de Filippis 77, Stirling Moss 74, Cliff Allison 72 (he died in April 2005), Tim Parnell 72
Front [sitting, kneeling]:
Roberto Mieres 79, Bernard Cahier 77

And predictably Stirling has ended up seated next to the lady!

[layabout]

And predictably Stirling has ended up seated next to the lady!

I wonder how many World Championship GP's and how many non-championship GP's is represented by this group? Just a total, not individually...

[Davidson10]

Can anyone picture a group of today's GP drivers gathering for a social jolly in 40 or 50 years time?

No, I thought not.

Edited by Davidson10, 17 April 2013 - 17:17.

[layabout]

I wonder how many World Championship GP's and how many non-championship GP's is represented by this group? Just a total, not individually...

OK, no responses, so let's make it easier: How many podium finishes at LeMans?

[Andretti Fan]

I wonder how many World Championship GP's and how many non-championship GP's is represented by this group? Just a total, not individually...

Not sure about any non championship races, but in the Grands Prix counting for the Worlds Driving Championship, the pictured group of drivers account for 513 starts, 28 victories, 25 poles, 34 fastest laps, and 1 drivers title.

[layabout]

Not sure about any non championship races, but in the Grands Prix counting for the Worlds Driving Championship, the pictured group of drivers account for 513 starts, 28 victories, 25 poles, 34 fastest laps, and 1 drivers title.

Here's an earlier Anciens Pilotes photo taken at Silverstone years ago---with one non-driver. I suspect this would really up the tally in terms of number of GPs, wins, F1 Driver's Championships, etc. Any takers for identifying all of them?

[Barry Boor]

Could that be Dickie Attwood on the far left, front row?

[Richard Jenkins]

The eye(brows) to the left have it!

It's only third on left I'm not sure about, shades and hat obscure it a bit.

Salvadori, Mike Taylor, ? (Vacarella??), Ganley, Bondurant, JYS, Sparken, Thompson, Moss, Parnell, Murray, Surtees

Attwood, Beltoise, de Filippis, Brooks, Allison, Brabham.

Edited by Richard Jenkins, 19 June 2013 - 21:09.

[helioseism]

What book are they holding?

[Richard Jenkins]

Grand Prix Who's Who 3 which came out at the start of 2000, which seems about right judging by the photograph. The 2000 British GP was around April/May wasn't it, a bit earlier than normal?

Edited by Richard Jenkins, 19 June 2013 - 21:11.