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#51 Buford

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Posted 07 August 2002 - 08:36

Road America - and yeah he was hurt bad. If he went out first I stand corrected. I was thinking he went out late in the day.

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#52 Henri Greuter

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Posted 07 August 2002 - 09:26

Buford,

AJ was first or second one out. then Lewis wrecked and we had the sudden change of weather, humid and hot.
Only Mears managed to be faster that A.J. that day and I remember Luyendyk, Fittpaldi and Bettenhausen and Cogan (Menard V6!) waving off. Then Fittipaldi went out and Roger Penske waiving that attempt off against a darkgray sky and we knew it was to rain shortly thus nobody inderstood why Penske waived off Emmo.
Shortly thereafter it rained like hell but Mears and A.J. were home and dry....
That was the first time that Emmo complained about Roger waiving off a Q-attempt. The second time he did it was in 1995, you know, the best year ever at Indy in recent years.


The next day we had the spectacle of seeing Gary B beating Mears fastest time and Arie L. and Emmo beating Foy't time handsomely, making the entire 5th row the fastest row in the field.

What a year that was, 1991.

We then had the great race between Michael and Rick in the final stages of the race.
I met Rick Mears at Goodwood in '98 and we talked about the race of 1991 and I asked him what he think would have happened it Arie Luyendyk had not lost that one lap early in the race and Emmo not retired in the last stages of the race. Rick told me that if the four of them had to fight that one out for victory, that would probably have been the best ever last 20 laps of any 500 in memory and one he would loved to had seen on TV.
And that could have been one of the best races ever anywhere.



Henri Greuter

#53 Ian McKean

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Posted 08 August 2002 - 19:41

Call me old-fashioned, naive, romantic or whatever, but I have found this thread interesting but really rather sad.

#54 John B

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Posted 08 August 2002 - 22:47

Entertaining reading. I just had a question on the Waltrip/roll cage story - was Bobby Allison in fact the driver? I remember DW had a huge rivalry with Allison, and Nelson was Allison's man during that 1981-83 period.

I liked the device that Bill Davis Racing got nailed with at the Daytona 500 several years ago - some hydraulic device on the rear of the car.

An Autoweek article came out about NASCAR some years ago, I think 1995. It had a lot of anonymous anecedotes which included Gordon's win at Indy 1994 and Petty's 200th in 1984. Reference was also given to a "Ford team" (from the other details it was most likely Jimmy Spencer/Johnson/McDonalds) which had won twice the previous year with some 'assistance' to guarantee that a 'big sponsor' would stay in the sport. That sponsor (if it was McDs) had no intention of staying with Johnson, though it did move to another team. NASCAR felt they had been tricked and supposedly the team would feel its wrath in 1995. It's worth noting that Brett Bodine joined Johnson and was promptly hit with a record $45000 fine at Daytona for an illegal manifold.....

#55 AtlanticRacer

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Posted 08 August 2002 - 23:12

Originally posted by Buford
Reminds me of the story A.J. Foyt acknowledges in his book of his running in the most dangerous fire era, with his fire extinguisher system filled with extra fuel rather than fire retardant. OK, that takes balls.


Serious balls indeed! Would any of those modern boys do that for a little more speed?

#56 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 August 2002 - 23:34

Yes. The amount of times ive seen a car on fire is pretty rare, but im down in the juniors. I wouldnt run one at Indy for example. Im not sure you could do it anymore mainly because the story is out, but also because they check that stuff. We had a guy get DQ'd from qualifying in Formula Palmer Audi because his fire extinguisher bottle wasnt turned *ON* nevermind that it was filled with the correct liquid. And that was the mechanic's fault.

#57 Buford

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 00:09

Originally posted by AtlanticRacer


Serious balls indeed! Would any of those modern boys do that for a little more speed?


It wasn't for more speed. It was to get an extra lap or two if needed. Sometimes that can win you a race if everybody has to pit at the end and you can make it without pitting.

#58 Mac Lark

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 00:43

Nitrous oxide thru the roll bar of a touring car/NASCAR is a good one.

At least one Australian driver achieved much with this sort of 'boost' in the early '70's.

#59 Don Capps

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 01:22

I have been meaning to not say anything, but.....

....perhaps few have given much thought to Smokey's version of the Chevelle.

Actually, all ol' Smokey did was take a real close look at the NASCAR rule book and made a car that was within the rules -- at least as Smokey read them. Here is what he did to that 1968 Chevelle SS:

Pushed the grill out, cut the air entrance in half
Split the front bumper length-wise and added 2-inches
Drained the air from the front & back wheel wells by creating negative air pressure pockets just behind 'em
To help the rear deck spoiler, had a small roof spoiler and slid the body back an inch or two or three...
Moved the wheel wells to fit the new contour of the body
Faired the entire bottom of the car from bumper to bumper
Used the engine as a frame member to stiffen the chassis
Built a chassis to replace the stock one
Install Lexan in the rear window and pushed all the window glass out to the very edge and flush with the bodywork
Moved the driver's seat 2-inches to the left and 3-inches back
Tuned exhaust system wrapped in insulation
Fabricated suspension

Bill Gazeway intially accepted the Chevelle with several changes, but then rescinded the approval. The car had been drained of fuel and Smokey had to get gas from the track garage since the crew at the gas pump will only put fuel into cars which had passed inspection. Smokey rips off the seal over the fuel filler, tosses in several gallons and drives back to the garage in town in about four minutes -- where, when Big Bill France shows up, ol' Smokey threatens him with a four pound hammer....

When the myth is better than the truth....

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#60 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 02:17

I didnt understand the 7/8 story, If it's only 7/8th the size of the legal car, wouldnt it be illegal in every measurement?

#61 Buford

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 05:27

Well they didn't have the templates then. If it looked kinda like a Ford it was a Ford. If it looked kinda like a Chevy, it was a Chevy etc.

#62 Viss1

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 17:49

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Hell I wonder if they do that in CART. Except I think popoff valves are given at random very close to the start of each session.


An AutoWeek article from a year or two ago mentioned that it was rumored that a Honda team received valves that were "more equal" than the others. Each valve is flow-tested, and it was suggested that valves on the high end of the spec range were put aside.

#63 Don Capps

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Posted 09 August 2002 - 18:08

Originally posted by Buford
Well they didn't have the templates then. If it looked kinda like a Ford it was a Ford. If it looked kinda like a Chevy, it was a Chevy etc.


Actually, they did, but the templates were for only a few very basic areas -- perhaps only one or two logitudinal templates and maybe two or three for width and the templates themselves were pretty much "approximate" -- and there was some very considerable wiggle room when it came to tolerances. However, as Buford correctly points out, the only real criteria -- given the crudeness of the templates -- was that if it looked about right for a Chevy or a Ford or a Dodge, then it was about right for NASCAR.

The 1968 Chevelle was never really a 7/8th's car -- more like 95% of what a Chevelle SS should have been, which in those days was still a considerable advantage.

#64 David Shaw

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Posted 03 September 2002 - 00:36

The following is my favourite, and is subject to "As far as I recall" as it was the first race meeting I ever attended and I was all of 10 years old. It involves Australian Touring Car racing from 1973.
The first metric Sandown enduro (Hang Ten 400) in 1973 had the XA Falcon Hardtops against the LJ XU1 Toranas. Unusually there was a third Ford factory entry, for Ian Geoghegan in what was apparently Howard Marsden's (Ford team boss) road car. All is fine, and the race starts and Geoghegan's Falcon is displaying very good braking power until lap 3, when it comes under the Dunlop bridge onto the main straight, and the outside rear wheel comes off, and he rolls to a stop and everyone sees the disc brake rearend, instead of the standard drums. How the scrutineers missed this with such a suspicious entry I don't know. Anyway, within the 3 or 4 weeks before the 1000km race at Bathurst, Ford have put the rear discs on prodution cars, got them homologated, and the Moffat/Geoghegan Falcon goes on to win at Bathurst.
:rolleyes:

#65 coyoteBR

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Posted 03 September 2002 - 12:12

My favorite "cheating" tale comes from the Piquet/Mansell days at Williams.

A particular weekend Nelson simply could not be as fast as The Lion. Then, on saturday, he stayed at the boxes untill late night, cheating with the mechanics, seeing people going to the hotel, etc. The first moment he find himself alone, he, huh.... relieved himself hight under Nigel's car.

Sunday morning, there was panic at Williams boxes. Nigel car's leeking some liquid. Fuel? Brakes fluid? Well, the crew get busy to find the defect, taking Mansell's car apart while Piquet took his car to the Warm-up, made the racing fine-tune, etc.

Nelson's only dificulty was to keep the straight face while all that happened :lol:

#66 BobM

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Posted 03 September 2002 - 12:49

Hi,

Two good ones that I remember are:

Darrell Waltrip had an exact replica of his helmet made of lead. When it came time for weight check, he simply left it next to his seat. He also said he was relieved no one asked him to put it on.

At Monaco in 81 or 82, Piquet set fastest time in qualifying and then returned to his pit. His mechanics then filled his engine with oil, to the brim, and he then went out and oiled the track. I'm sure Bernie didn't condone this, though.

#67 petefenelon

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Posted 03 September 2002 - 15:26

Originally posted by Don Capps


Actually, they did, but the templates were for only a few very basic areas -- perhaps only one or two logitudinal templates and maybe two or three for width and the templates themselves were pretty much "approximate" -- and there was some very considerable wiggle room when it came to tolerances. However, as Buford correctly points out, the only real criteria -- given the crudeness of the templates -- was that if it looked about right for a Chevy or a Ford or a Dodge, then it was about right for NASCAR.

The 1968 Chevelle was never really a 7/8th's car -- more like 95% of what a Chevelle SS should have been, which in those days was still a considerable advantage.


I seem to recall that someone in the 80s (Awesome Bill from Dawsonville, my brain seems to say) had quite a lot of success in NASCAR because they had templates that checked the profile of the car, but didn't look at the width of it - so he had a car that had less frontal area than anyone else running a similar Ford.... Not quite as blatant as Smokey's miniature car but still pretty clever.

pete

#68 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 12:41

Originally posted by David Shaw
The following is my favourite, and is subject to "As far as I recall" as it was the first race meeting I ever attended and I was all of 10 years old. It involves Australian Touring Car racing from 1973.
The first metric Sandown enduro (Hang Ten 400) in 1973 had the XA Falcon Hardtops against the LJ XU1 Toranas. Unusually there was a third Ford factory entry, for Ian Geoghegan in what was apparently Howard Marsden's (Ford team boss) road car. All is fine, and the race starts and Geoghegan's Falcon is displaying very good braking power until lap 3, when it comes under the Dunlop bridge onto the main straight, and the outside rear wheel comes off, and he rolls to a stop and everyone sees the disc brake rearend, instead of the standard drums. How the scrutineers missed this with such a suspicious entry I don't know. Anyway, within the 3 or 4 weeks before the 1000km race at Bathurst, Ford have put the rear discs on prodution cars, got them homologated, and the Moffat/Geoghegan Falcon goes on to win at Bathurst.
:rolleyes:


Actually, the brakes were already homologated...

And the car wasn't Howard Marsden's roady at all... quoting from RCN:

Ford brought three cars from the factory, the two attractive blue and white cars for Moffat and Gibson, and a third "reserve" car for Pete Geoghegan and Bo Seton to share, obviously as a run-up for the Bathurst round. In fact, this car was the one in which much of the development work had been done.


The cheat in those cars was in the body panels... or at least the one I know about was. They were pressed out of lighter gauge steel sheet to keep the weight down.

So when Moffat wrote off his at Phillip Island, he was peeved that the spare shell (possibly the Sandown Geoghegan body?) had been given to John Goss to create a Sports Sedan.

Of course, this information is in the article in Motor Racing Australia, which has just come out. If I recall correctly, it wasn't possible to homologate anything new between the annual Sandown and Bathurst endurance races.

#69 Mark Beckman

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 13:18

I seem to remember Moffat turning up at Sandown with an illegal car (tyres too wide ??) that was obvious but he was so sick of the Holdens advantage at that point that he fought it out with CAMS there and then and threatened to withdraw from the sport if not allowed to run, remembering he was the King of Fords at the time with a huge following.

Can anyone supply more on this ??


During the Group C touring cars of the mid 80's Brock was running his Brock Commodores that he was selling fully equipped with air-con, stereo and other luxury items.

Ford argued that he was cheating because the race cars had none of these items fitted and the race cars had lead ballast to make up the difference in weight but of course they could put this ballast wherever to help handling so in the end all the Brocks had to have all this equipment refitted to the cars.

What was amusing was while being interviewed on the start line at Calder about this ruling, Peter Brock who was being sponsored by Marlboro at the time leant over into his race car and switched on his now refitted and fully working Stereo and turned it on full blast to the tune of the "Marlboro theme" (the magnificent 7) :lol:

#70 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 14:01

And in that period the weight of the Falcons was assessed so low that they had a hard time gutting the cars to get down to it...

CAMS had been given the weight of a six-cylinder model.

#71 Graham Clayton

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 11:00

Tom Jensen back in 2004 published an updated edition of his book "Cheating - An Inside Look at the Bad Things Good Nascar Nextel Cup Racers Do In Pursuit of Speed". While some of the examples have been mentioned already, here are some more:

Back in the days of modified racing on the original beach/road course, the Modifieds used to line up five, six, seven across, and they would be sent of in waves at 1 second intervals. Red Byron's car was starting in the very back of the field. Raymond Parks owned the car, and he always wore a wide-brimmed hat to Daytona. He would stand on top of the sand dunes overlooking the pits, where the cars were starting. As soon as the first row of cars took off, Raymond took off his hat and waved it and that was the signal to Red at the rear of the field. He would get a running start and be leading as the field went into the North Turn.

Bud Moore would wait until his car was approved before sticking an air hose in the fuel tank. The air would stretch the fuel cell, giving 1-2 extra gallons.

Fred Lorenzen's Holman-Moody Ford was found at Martinsville to have an oversize 22.9 gallon fuel tank. The NASCAR inspectors made the team remove the tank, and expected a legal tank to be fitted. Instead the team fited a 28 gallon tank, which was never checked!

Richard Petty had a weight jacker fitted during his car during the 1967 season, which allowed him to adjust the weight balance to the left hand side of the car, which helped the handling. The NASCAR rule book only said that a car had to weight a certain amount, and did not specify where the weight was.

Darrell Waltrip's engine exploded immediately after he crossed the finishing line after winning the inaugral Winston race at Lowes Motor Speedway in 1985. It was believed that Waltrip had a mildly oversized engine that he nurtured through the early part of the race, before hammering it late to pass Harry Gant and win, and then "clutching" the motor, so that it was damaged to make it unsuitable for post-race inspection.

#72 thunder427

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 13:16

who cheated !!/..its was only called 'Cheating' when you got caught !!.....durring the build up program of a certain A9X Torana (GMH/Aust.), prior to Bathurst 1977,morning Tea/lunch/('overtime') dinner,was always a 'Hoot',you would all sit around trying to come up with some 'Ingenous' way to 'Beat the System',my 'Flash' of inspiration that escaped 'ever' being detected was,in a Torana the front Chassie/Subframe was connected to the body using a rubber 'donut' ( same as 1st and 2nd Generation Camaro/Gm built cars)this caused the car to handle with out the 'positvity' reqired for a 1000Km race, we had already manufactured an 'Alloy'replacements ,but 'just' painted 'Black' was not going to do it..Presto..caffine 'kick-in',,We ,slightly undersized the object,I then stripped some '100mile an hour tape to the correct width, wrappped around the "alloy' Donut 3 times then, cut an inch wide section from a 'push bike' inner tube ,which looked like a 'fat' rubber band,slipped this over as the outside as a cover, bolted unit in place..Yes.. looked like the real thing, more importantly, felt like the 'real' thing......I guess you had to be there, but we got off on that trick for at least three days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#73 fbarrett

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 15:41

Friends:

This isn't from F1 or NASCAR or CART, etc., but the other end of the spectrum. Years ago, in Porsche club autocrossing and time trials, the hot street tire was the Michelin XWX, which worked best with minimal tread. The rules required street tires to have 3/16-inch tread depth to get through tech inspection before a run. Of course, the poor tech inspectors had no gauge, so when they complained about my tires, I'd kindly lend them my gauge to check the depth. What I didn't tell them was that 1/8-inch had been ground off the tip of the plunger, so the gauge always read 1/8-inch high.

Mention was made in a earlier post that the 1994 Ilmor pushrod engine was cheating. I'm sorry, but it was just Penske's careful reading of the rules. No one has ever seriously accused Ilmor-Mercedes of cheating in that instance. You can bet that the Indy tech inspectors looked for every possible way to declare that engine illegal--but couldn't find one!

Someone also mentioned "giving" the tech inspectors some blatantly illegal item to find and argue about, in order to hide something else equally illegal. That's an old trick, and most tech inspectors are smart and experienced enough to recognize it, so these days you can use it only with "amateur" inspectors.

Frank

#74 David M. Kane

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 16:35

In the ground effects days (when Bernie was the owner), Brabham had a button/switch that would lower the car after it got of the pits to increase the ground effects. Entering the pits they would raise the car back up to the legal ride-height.

#75 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 19:48

Originally posted by thunder427
who cheated !!/..its was only called 'Cheating' when you got caught !!.....durring the build up program of a certain A9X Torana (GMH/Aust.), prior to Bathurst 1977,morning Tea/lunch/('overtime') dinner,was always a 'Hoot',you would all sit around trying to come up with some 'Ingenous' way to 'Beat the System',my 'Flash' of inspiration that escaped 'ever' being detected was,in a Torana the front Chassie/Subframe was connected to the body using a rubber 'donut' ( same as 1st and 2nd Generation Camaro/Gm built cars)this caused the car to handle with out the 'positvity' reqired for a 1000Km race, we had already manufactured an 'Alloy'replacements ,but 'just' painted 'Black' was not going to do it..Presto..caffine 'kick-in',,We ,slightly undersized the object,I then stripped some '100mile an hour tape to the correct width, wrappped around the "alloy' Donut 3 times then, cut an inch wide section from a 'push bike' inner tube ,which looked like a 'fat' rubber band,slipped this over as the outside as a cover, bolted unit in place..Yes.. looked like the real thing.....


You were working with Peter?

#76 Tom Glowacki

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 21:27

Other good ones:

1. Different wheel bases, with the short one on the inside, when NASCAR only measured one side.

2. Qualifying the car, jacking it up to legal height back in the garage, removing the shocks and freezing them overnight to pass NASCAR tech inspection with a legal ride height, which would take care of itself in a few laps.

3. Smoky Yunick's Hudson Hornet flywheel trick. The stock unit weighed a ton and drilling through it to lighten it was an easy thing for tech inspectors to catch. Smokey heated up the starter gear teeth ring, removed it, drilled the flywheel out radially from the outside edge, and popped the starter ring back on.

4. Peter Revson's story of how the Bud Moore Cougars would go through tech with old tires on that they'd worn on the trailer. New ones would be put after tech for qualifying. Trying to be helpful one day, Revson tried to pick up one of the old tires after it had been removed and could not budge it. A mechanic saw him and told him to stick to the driving.

#77 thunder427

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 14:01

...the 'lead' loaded helmet brings me to another "Believe it or Not' story...my position with the team was probably best described as 'Odd Job',..('OJ" to the troops !!) by race day my position as 'Body-n-Paint' was basically forfilled,so at the 'race track'I had a bunch of other duties,EG; set up the 'pit' counter,hang out the 'pit' board durring the race,polish things, clean the tools before they were put away, unload-n-pack the transporter, you get the 'drift'!!,...well at each event our 'sports sedan' ( read; Australian for Chev Monza !!), we would walk that 'baby'up to the wieght in and the 'Crew Chief' would throw a feature !! "where the"HELL' is the "bell' bag with the 'race suit and Helmet', for inspection"!!!!!!,well I would take all this on board,drop the shoulders a fraction and slink off to get 'said' object,which I would bring back to the car with a'bit'of a spring in the step,pop open the door ,place on seat ,where bag (slightly)open with 'race suit protruding,race shoes on top,I would pass the 'Helmet' to an "official" for date check ,as the car was pushed onto the scales by the rest of the crew,...at this point 'some' thirty-to-fourty' ( plus) pounds increased wieght,........this would bring us in 'Just' over Minimum 'spec'.....we would have a 'holiday' on the amount of fun we had...the Owner/ Driver "Never' knew...why 'tell-em'......it was our contribution to the 'winning thing' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#78 sterling49

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 14:27

Originally posted by David M. Kane
In the ground effects days (when Bernie was the owner), Brabham had a button/switch that would lower the car after it got of the pits to increase the ground effects. Entering the pits they would raise the car back up to the legal ride-height.


I remember that David, it was on the BT50 Piquet car, designed by Gordon Murray (IIRC), a good ruse :lol:

#79 URY914

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 14:39

I have a friend of mine that was on an IMSA team in the '80's. He said they had a fuel cell that expanded to hold more fuel than allowed. They won Sebring and Daytona overall that year.

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#80 Glengavel

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 16:34

Originally posted by David M. Kane
In the ground effects days (when Bernie was the owner), Brabham had a button/switch that would lower the car after it got of the pits to increase the ground effects. Entering the pits they would raise the car back up to the legal ride-height.


That would have been in 1981. ISTR that Brabham were getting sick of the prevarication over the legality of active suspension systems, and the whole issue of sliding skirts and all the rest. So they fitted a huge lever to the ride height valve to deliberately provoke the authorities into a decision; they just ignored it! There's a photograph of the demon device on p195 of Automobile Year 81/82, alongside a photo of De Angelis' Lotus 87, looking like it's up on stilts...

#81 Fatgadget

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 00:36

Originally posted by Mark Beckman




In one Rally (I think Tour de Course) the Nissans came first and second (Tony Pond I think) in Group 2 and the team (run by Andy Dawson) refused to have their engines pulled down citing that they were under explicit instructions from Nissan Japan that they were to be returned intact because of head gasket troubles that were trying to be cured at the time.

They were disqualified and gets me thinking that using the excuse that they did saves a lot of face compared to actually getting caught cheating.

Andy Dawson. Ah yes! I always looked forward to Andy's monthly 'Dawsons dodges' articles in triple C back in the day. The one that sticks in my mind is swapping the brake lines back to front on Escort Mexico challenge rally cars.Should the scrutineers spot it,just blame the useless mechanic who prepared your car! :D

#82 Lotus23

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 00:59

This one goes back nearly 60 years and can be filed under "Spicing Up The Show".

Local 1/4 mile paved oval. I won't name the sanctioning organization, but they were hardly noted for even-handed rules enforcement.

Local Hero was winning week after week, even when he was handicapped by starting at the back of the pack. Saturday nights played to packed grandstands: local fans who wanted to see the streak continue, and outsiders who wanted to see it snapped.

Curious, I snagged a $2 pit pass to see if I could discover the secret of LH's success.

Superficially, his car looked legal enough, but when he fired up the engine, the exhaust fumes instantly brought tears to my eyes! The rules specified "pump gas only"; I don't know where he was getting his pump gas, but it definitely had Something Extra added to it!

Such shenanigans were fairly common in those days, and outsiders were far more closely scrutinized than were Local Heroes. All in the name of putting on a good show...PT Barnum would've been proud.

#83 alansart

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:15

The Pacer FF1600 was investigated after showing an exceptional burst of speed at Thruxton in 1982. It was found to have it's fire extinguisher filled with Nitrous Oxide. Pressing the footrest gave a quick spray into the carb - instant power!

#84 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:29

Originally posted by Graham Clayton
Tom Jensen back in 2004 published an updated edition of his book "Cheating - An Inside Look at the Bad Things Good Nascar Nextel Cup Racers Do In Pursuit of Speed". While some of the examples have been mentioned already, here are some more:

Fred Lorenzen's Holman-Moody Ford was found at Martinsville to have an oversize 22.9 gallon fuel tank. The NASCAR inspectors made the team remove the tank, and expected a legal tank to be fitted. Instead the team fited a 28 gallon tank, which was never checked!


How about the story of a legal tank fitted and a the very long and wide fuel lines?

Originally posted by sterling49


I remember that David, it was on the BT50 Piquet car, designed by Gordon Murray (IIRC), a good ruse :lol:


Somewhere here in another thread the 'special' qualifying helmet of Nelson was discussed. He used it in the turbo era at Brabham.

#85 HiRich

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:33

A rare case of the blue badge boys getting theor own back.
A couple of years back, we were in the Assembly Area at Brands. A 750 StockHatch comes over for a check on the weighbridge. "Drives" hops out all confident, but is floored when his car comes in some 90kg overweight. It can't be right, he's stripped everything, the weighbridge must be wrong. We watch for about five minutes as the arm waving gets more and more dramatic.

Eventually, the driver gets a tap on the shoulder from another scrutineer standing right behind him, also standing on the weighbridge...

#86 David McKinney

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:38

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#87 Van Diemen Driver

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 13:34

In racing everybody is looking for the unfair advantage. When I visited a Dutch national race for some sort of Renault cup (I think the Clio Cup of 2004 or thereabouts), you could hear the difference between some cars engine note. This is supposed to be a class with sealed engines!

Also, in the wonderful world of racing with sealed engines, there is the possiblility of buying better engines if you race in a class a bit longer... All engines are equal of course, but some are more equal than others. The difference can be about 5 bhp. That can mean a tenth on a lap but in a competitive series (where they throw away a 1000 Euro set of slicks after three laps because the edge is gone), 5 bhp is worth a lot.

How does this work?

There is a certain variation in every engine. A road engine starts its life with a certain lenght of the cylinder block. When an engine blows, the head gasket needs to be fitted again after a rebuild and the size of the cylinderblock will be decreased because the head needs to be flattened to fit the headgasket. There is a variation of a few millimeters but the compression ratio is slightly higher.

It is enough to not be strictly illegal and enough to give your favourite customers an edge.

#88 alansart

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 14:21

Originally posted by Van Diemen Driver
There is a certain variation in every engine. A road engine starts its life with a certain lenght of the cylinder block. When an engine blows, the head gasket needs to be fitted again after a rebuild and the size of the cylinderblock will be decreased because the head needs to be flattened to fit the headgasket. There is a variation of a few millimeters but the compression ratio is slightly higher.

It is enough to not be strictly illegal and enough to give your favourite customers an edge.


We know that to our cost!

When we were doing FFords in the 80's, we also did a few Monoposto races. There was talk of bent engines, so the Monoposto Club decided to protest the first 6 finishers after a race at Oulton. Why Oulton was chosen was beyond me. Some of the front runners didn't bother going as it was to far, and I think at least 3 of the top 6 were local racers. Bob Berridge refused to have his engine sealed as he was just doing the race for a laugh (I think he was 2nd in his old Lotus), but we agreed, as we thought we were legal.

An old engineer in Bolton had relined our block, which is perfectly legal, but what we didn't realise is that he'd skimmed the top to make sure it was flat. Good old Frank was a bit heavy handed sometimes and took a bit to much off it. When our engine was stripped the volume of two cylinders was a tad to small so the engine was declared illegal. Having said that, no action was taken (apart from losing the result) and the RAC Scrutineer advised us how to correct it by taking a bit off the piston bowl.

What really was annoying was that the Monoposto Club decided to spend £2400 protesting cars at the worst possible place and many of thought we were being used as away of cleaning up their image, while the real culprits got away with it.

Whilst on the subject of bent engines. The classic is Walter Warwick, protesting the first 10 cars after a Donington race, including himself. Six grand later the only car found illegal was his :eek:

#89 Peter Linsky

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 03:28

Hi, everyone - This is a most entertaining thread, but after scanning all the comments, I was surprised that nobody had raised one of the most famous scams - alleged by the late Tom McCahill, one of America's best-known post-war auto critics (His writings today appear very quaint and simplistic).

In his book "Today's Sports and Competition Cars" (Prentice-Hall, 1954), McCahill - who loved racing - includes a chapter entitled "Cheating For Fun And Profit" in which he covers all the usual methods of what he called "jiggling". The most outrageous example he cites:

"One of the greatest jobs I ever ran across was pulled by a guy who had an irresistible Dale Carnegie* personality and a magnificent set of tools. He was always offering his tools and help to the inspectors, especially his micrometers and steel rulers. It was a long time before the boys found out that this character had a complete set of measuring tools worth hundreds of dollars that had been custom-built for him to measure size his way. For example, if his engine was supposed to have a 4 1/2" stroke, it did on his ruler, but it would have a 4 3/4" stroke on anyone else's...he is no longer allowed in the inspection compound."


*Carnegie was the first proponent of personality improvement training for sales people, and wrote the famous "How to Make Friends and Influence People"

Thought you might enjoy this!

PCL

#90 moxonvee

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:23

One of the stories I heard it that of Alan Moffat at Bathurst in the RX7. The rule was that the car had to clear a 50mm block without scraping, so the officials lined up the lead cars to pass over the block. When it was Moffats turn it looked obvious he would fail as the spoiler was so low to the ground. He rolled up to the block being directed by a team mechanic. When directed to drive over the block, he revved up the motor, dropped the clutch and in doing so, the front lifted under acceleration and cleared the block. All the opposing teams in seeing this applauded the ingenuity Another rule bent.

#91 Stephen W

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 13:11

One of the stories I heard it that of Alan Moffat at Bathurst in the RX7. The rule was that the car had to clear a 50mm block without scraping, so the officials lined up the lead cars to pass over the block. When it was Moffats turn it looked obvious he would fail as the spoiler was so low to the ground. He rolled up to the block being directed by a team mechanic. When directed to drive over the block, he revved up the motor, dropped the clutch and in doing so, the front lifted under acceleration and cleared the block. All the opposing teams in seeing this applauded the ingenuity Another rule bent.


Arriving in Scotland for the Knockhill sprint we were informed that all cars would have to pass the 40mm ground clearance rule. I used to transport my Reynard 903 on its wets. So rolled it off the trailer and pushed it to scrutineering. It passed all the tests including the 40mm test - a block of ally on a stick was shoved under the car!

When the car sat on the slicks ground clearance was nearer 30mm but I wasn't going to tell the scrute that! However I did insist that ALL cars were tested, including the Lotus 7s and Westfields. The scrute in question asked why should he. I told him if he didn't I would report him to the MSA. The first Westfield he tested failed! :rotfl:

My favourite Hillclimb 'cheat' involved David Grace & Jim Robinson. At the time they had been sharing a Clubmans Mallock. Over the winter they swapped engines slotting in a Hart 420R. The exhaust system was totally different but rather than remove all the pipework Jim left about 12 inches of the original exhaust in place as it was securely fixed with two brackets and poked out of the side through a beautifully crafted slot. The Hart's exhaust came out under the car on the opposite side. Thus when rolling into the Noise Test Area David Grace, who invariably would be behind the wheel, extravagantly pointed to the stub of the old exhaust then revved the nuts off the Hart. This hardly registered on the Noise Meter and the car was passed through! :)





#92 RDV

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 14:50

In the ground effects days (when Bernie was the owner), Brabham had a button/switch that would lower the car after it got of the pits to increase the ground effects. Entering the pits they would raise the car back up to the legal ride-height.

...after the first race they used it everybody had something similar...the switch would actualy raise the car for pit entry...we went one better in having the oil pressure pull down the jack for running, and release it to height coming back into the pits, as people used to be tossed out if there was a glitch on the system and car was too low..

#93 ZOOOM

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 15:06

Penske was not always the portrait of virtue...
The book written by his best known driver (Mark Donohugh) wasn't called the unfair advantage for nuthin...

Back in the can Am days people wondered why the Camaros he was using were all fitted with a canvas covered top.
It seems that the cars were acid dipped to lighten the bodies for racing and the acid dipper left the bodies in the acid too long. The tops had holes in the metal. Penske had no choice but to cover it up with canvas.

At a race at Meadowdale out side of Chicago for one of the Can Am races, I noticed that Penske had a fueling tank on stilts so the fuel would have a head of speed going into the tanks of the cars. I also noticed the tanks on the stilts were larger than anybody elses tanks. Another thing was that the race was run in very hot weather.... and the tank was sweating...
Well it finally came out thst Penske was super cooling the fuel in the pit tank with dry ice so it was denser than when hot. It allowed about two more gallons of fuel to be put in the cars tank. Of course the fuel would warm up after a lap or so, but by that time they had also burnt off about a gallon or two!

Amaizing!
ZOOOM

#94 beighes

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 18:43

At one SCCA National Runoffs (sometime in the dim past), a particular Showroom Stock team (I can't recall if the won or came a close 2nd.), had overheating front brake issues. Solution was easy.............reroute the windshield washer hoses to the front brakes, & wire the brake light switch to the washer pump. The car had a huge water reservoir, & was more than enough to last the length of the race. At the post race tech inspection, the car was parked on a slight sideways slope. The driver, in his excitement, neglected to "switch off" the pump. When a crew member noticed the recently sprayed water running off, he merely dumped his can of cola into the stream. The inspectors just walked through the liquid. There was something a few years later about a fuel tank hidden in the passenger seat of their Corvette. If memory is correct, that suggestion came from a Chevrolet engineer.

#95 Chezrome

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 21:24

At a race at Meadowdale out side of Chicago for one of the Can Am races, I noticed that Penske had a fueling tank on stilts so the fuel would have a head of speed going into the tanks of the cars. I also noticed the tanks on the stilts were larger than anybody elses tanks. Another thing was that the race was run in very hot weather.... and the tank was sweating...
Well it finally came out that Penske was super cooling the fuel in the pit tank with dry ice so it was denser than when hot. It allowed about two more gallons of fuel to be put in the cars tank. Of course the fuel would warm up after a lap or so, but by that time they had also burnt off about a gallon or two!

Amaizing!
ZOOOM


But is that cheating? I think 'an unfair advantage' is taking the rulebook, following it, and try to work within that rulebook - and not being too saintly. Something else, in my mind, than driving with a 3,5 litre engineblock when everyone else drives with a 3 litre block. Or adding nitrogen to the fuel when others were not... or hidden skirts that are still there, like in the story Buford told earlier. I think Colin Chapman did not 'cheat' with the Lotus 88, although it was declared illegal. While Brabham was allegedly using illegal fuel in 1983 (when they had a sudden rise in enginepower), and when that is true, I think that IS cheating.

Edited by Chezrome, 08 September 2009 - 21:24.


#96 HistoricMustang

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 22:50

For Daytona, Watkins Glen and VIR I always installed a T-5 (five speed) in the ole '65 HistoricMustang instead of the usual top loader.

The shift leaver and knob looked just like a toploader set up including the four speed knob.

Henry :wave:

#97 beighes

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 23:06

Ahhh, the memories start coming back. Back when "pure race gearboxes were being offered for smaller production based race cars, one SFR/SCCA E/production driver thought he would be sneaky. He secretly fitted a 5 speed unit into his Triumph Spitfire (they were still illegal by SCCA reg's). During Saturday's qualifying session, we noticed that he was shifting at odd locations on the track. A moment later we realized that he made one extra shift, after everyone else had. Obviously, he was sent away. The sad part is that he was always one of the slower entries, & this large expense did not help him in the least.

Edited by beighes, 08 September 2009 - 23:07.


#98 JacnGille

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 01:05

At one SCCA National Runoffs (sometime in the dim past), a particular Showroom Stock team ...


And one year a Honda CRX competitor's car was much closer to the "offical" weight that any of the other CRXs. An ill advised game of bumper tag revealed that the car was missing all of the energy absorbing structure under the plastic bumper.

#99 La Sarthe

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 17:12

How about the time an F1 team boss and his technical director ordered their young No.2 driver to crash so that it give a huge advantage to the strategy chosen for the No.1 driver?

Nah, would never happen.........

:|

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#100 stevewf1

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 17:51

If anyone can lay their hands on a book called "Sunday Driver" by Brock Yates, Car and Driver magazine tried to run a comparison test between various supposedly stock "muscle cars" in 1965. His accounts of just how "stock" - or not - these cars were is hilarious...

(look at about page 149 in the book).