78 replies to this topic

[917]

It is wonderful how much information about racing history can be found on the web (not only but also thanks to many members of this forum), but information about rally history seems to be more scarce. For example: Winners of the 1951 Sweden Rally were Gunnar Bengtsson and (prename?) Zetterberg in a Talbot Lago - but which one? (Record, Grand Sport or Baby?)

But my main question is: I was unable to find a complete list of winners of the Marathon de la Route. The best list I saw was in a British book, but I forgot to note author and title. I apologize to the author (and the TNF members) that I cannot give credit to my source. (I added prenames where I know them.)

Winners of the Marathon de la Route:

LIÈGE-BIARRITZ-LIÈGE

1927 (6 cars equal on zero penalties)

LIÈGE-MADRID-LIÈGE

1928 Minsart/Havelange (Bugatti 44)
1929 (nine cars equal on zero penalties)
1930 Minsart/Reynaertz (Bugatti)

LIÈGE-ROME-LIÈGE

1931 Toussaint/Evrard (Bugatti 49)
1932 Orban/Havelange (Bugatti 46)
1933 Georges/Collon (FN 3.2 Litre) - von Guillaume/Bahr (Adler 2 Liter, this must have been type Favorit)
1934 Evrard/Trasenster - Peeters/Collon - Thirion/Bouriano (all Bugatti) - Lahaye/Quatresous (Renault) - Bahr/von Guillaume (Imperia) - van Naemen/Canciani (Lancia) - Bernet/Sailer (Mercedes-Benz)
1935 Trasenster/Breyre (Bugatti) - Charles Lahaye/René Quatresous (Renault)
1936 (not held due to date dispute with Belgian authorities)
1937 Haeberle/(Helm?) Gloeckler (Hanomag)
1938 Trasenster/Breyre (Bugatti)
1939 Trasenster/Breyre (Bugatti) - Trevoux/Lesurque (Hotchkiss)

1950 Dubois/de Cortanze (Peugeot Special 1490cc)
1951 Claes/(Jacques?) Ickx (Jaguar XK 120)
1952 Helmut Polensky/Schlutter (Porsche 356)
1953 Claes/Trasenster (Lancia Aurelia GT)
1954 Helmut Polensky/Herbert Linge (Porsche 356)
1955 Oliver Gendebien/Stasse (Mercedes-Benz 300 SL)
1956 Willy Mairesse/Genin (Mercedes-Benz 300 SL)
1957 Storez/Buchet (Porsche 356)
1958 Hebert/Consten (Alfa Romeo Giulietta)
1959 Buchet/Paul-Ernst Straehle (Porsche 356 Carrera)
1960 Pat Moss/A. Wisdom (Austin-Healey 3000)

LIÈGE-SOFIA-LIÈGE

1961 Lucien Bianchi/Harris (Citroen DS 19)
1962 Eugen Boehringer/Eger (Mercedes-Benz 220 SE)
1963 Eugen Boehringer/Klaus Kaiser (Mercedes-Benz 230 SL)
1964 Rauno Aaltonen/Tony Ambrose (Austin-Healey 3000)

84 HOURS NUERBURGRING

1965 Greder/Rives (Ford Mustang)
1966 Vernaeve/Hedges (MGB GT)
1967 Hans Herrmann/Jochen Neerpasch/Vic Elford (Porsche 911)
1968 Herbert Linge/Dieter Glemser/Willi Kauhsen (Porsche 911)
1969 (Harry?) Kallstroem/Barbasio/Tony Fall (Lancia Fulvia HF)

So far - so good, but in the latest (September 2002) issue of "Classic & Sports Car" (p. 138-143) I read that Charles Lahaye won not only the 1935 Rally Monte Carlo and the 1935 Liège-Rome-Liège in a Renault Nervasport (in both cases his co-driver was René Quatresous) but also the 1931 and 1933 Liège-Rome-Liège rallies (the 1931 event in a Renault Nervastella) which is a contradiction to the above list.

I don't know whether the Kupelian book about Belgian motor sport history covers the Marathon. Can somebody of you shed some light on the matter, especially the above mentioned contradiction, the winners of 1927 and 1929, the prenames of the winners and the car types?

Thank you very much!
With kind regards
Michael

[Vitesse2]

Can't help with the early stuff, but I can add a few first names:

Ann Wisdom, Andrew Hedges, André de Cortanze and Julien Vernaeve.

[Frank de Jong]

And Henri Greder and probably Johnny Rives.

[Doug Nye]

From memory - so check it - Sergio Barbasio, Claude Buchet, Jean Hebert, Georges Harris, Bernard Consten, Hermann Eger, Claude Storez, Pierre Stasse (Jellybean's cousin), 'Johnny' Claes, Walter Schluter, and there was also a Claude Dubois and an Andre de Cortanze but they would have been young men indeed in 1950 I suspect...????

DCN

[David McKinney]

There was a Charles de Cortanze who raced before the war
And wasn't it Robert Buchet?

Some earlier ones:
Maurice Minsart
Joseph Reynaertz
Téléséphore Georges
Paul von Guillaume
Alphonse Evrard
?Ginet Trasenster
Max Thirion
Georges Bouriano
Franz Breyre
Karl Haeberle
Walter Glöckler (Helm's uncle, IIRC)
Jean Trevoux

[917]

Thank you for your contributions so far!

For my convenience (and I hope, yours too) I include here the amended list:

Winners of the Marathon de la Route:

LIÈGE-BIARRITZ-LIÈGE

1927 (6 cars equal on zero penalties)

LIÈGE-MADRID-LIÈGE

1928 Maurice Minsart/Havelange (Bugatti 44)
1929 (nine cars equal on zero penalties)
1930 Maurice Minsart/Joseph Reynaertz (Bugatti)

LIÈGE-ROME-LIÈGE

1931 Toussaint/Alphonse Evrard (Bugatti 49)
and/or Charles Lahaye/N.N. (Renault Nervastella)?
1932 Orban/Havelange (Bugatti 46)
1933 Téléséphore Georges/Collon (FN 3.2 Litre) - Paul von Guillaume/Bahr (Adler Favorit)
and/or Charles Lahaye/N.N. (Renault)?
1934 Alphonse Evrard/(Ginet?) Trasenster - Peeters/Collon - Max Thirion/Georges Bouriano (all Bugatti) - Charles Lahaye/René Quatresous (Renault) - Bahr/Paul von Guillaume (Imperia) - van Naemen/Canciani (Lancia) - Bernet/Sailer (Mercedes-Benz)
1935 (Ginet?) Trasenster/Franz Breyre (Bugatti) - Charles Lahaye/René Quatresous (Renault)
1936 (not held due to date dispute with Belgian authorities)
1937 Karl Häberle/Walter Glöckler (Hanomag)
1938 (Ginet?) Trasenster/Franz Breyre (Bugatti)
1939 (Ginet?) Trasenster/Franz Breyre (Bugatti) - Jean Trévoux/Lesurque (Hotchkiss)

1950 Dubois/Charles de Cortanze (Peugeot 203 Special 1490cc)
1951 Johnny Claes/Jacques Ickx (Jaguar XK 120)
1952 Helmut Polensky/Walter Schlüter (Porsche 356)
1953 Johnny Claes/(Ginet?) Trasenster (Lancia Aurelia GT)
1954 Helmut Polensky/Herbert Linge (Porsche 356)
1955 Oliver Gendebien/Pierre Stasse (Mercedes-Benz 300 SL)
1956 Willy Mairesse/Genin (Mercedes-Benz 300 SL)
1957 Claude Storez/Robert Buchet (Porsche 356 Speedster Carrera)
1958 Jean Hébert/Bernard Consten (Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Veloce)
1959 Robert Buchet/Paul-Ernst Strähle (Porsche 356 Carrera)
1960 Pat Moss/Ann Wisdom (Austin-Healey 3000)

LIÈGE-SOFIA-LIÈGE

1961 Lucien Bianchi/Georges Harris (Citroen DS 19)
1962 Eugen Böhringer/Herrmann Eger (Mercedes-Benz 220 SE)
1963 Eugen Böhringer/Klaus Kaiser (Mercedes-Benz 230 SL)
1964 Rauno Aaltonen/Tony Ambrose (Austin-Healey 3000)

84 HOURS NÜRBURGRING

1965 Henri Greder/(Jean/Johnny?) Rives (Ford Mustang)
1966 Julien Vernaeve/Andrew Hedges (MGB GT)
1967 Hans Herrmann/Jochen Neerpasch/Vic Elford (Porsche 911)
1968 Herbert Linge/Dieter Glemser/Willi Kauhsen (Porsche 911)
1969 Harry Kallström/Sergio Barbasio/Tony Fall (Lancia Fulvia HF)

As you can see, I wrote the German (and Swedish) names with "ä", "ö" and "ü" now.

Kind regards
Michael

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Winners of the 1951 Sweden Rally were Gunnar Bengtsson and (prename?) Zetterberg in a Talbot Lago - but which one? (Record, Grand Sport or Baby?)

According to a Swedish book, the car was called "Talbot 15". No first name for Zetterberg.

Stefan

[Ian McKean]

Typo - Oliver Gendebien was Olivier, I think.

[kabouter]

917, was your original source maybe 'The Guinness Book of Rallying' by John Davenport?

[Udo K.]

Does anyone have more complete results of the 1965-1969 Nürburgring issues of the Marathon?

And I think I have a faint memory that the event was prolonged to 96 Hours some year....

[jarama]

Udo,

I have a race repport on the Nürburgring 84 h. '68 IIRC.

Later I'll post here the results and relevant data.

Carles.

[917]

Stefan,

thank you for this information. Talbot built a 15 CV from 1937 to 1939 with a 2696cc six cylinder engine (SWB version as "Baby" and LWB as "Cadette"). From 1948 there was a new "Baby", this time with a 2690cc four cylinder engine, but from 1951 also with six cylinders (probably an evolution of the pre-war machine).

Ian,

thanks for the hint - was just a typing error (but I have seen the wrong spelling also at other places)

kabouter,

the Davenport book seems to be interesting, but I think it was "The Guinness Book of the Car" (ed. by Anthony Harding, 1987) though I'm yet not sure. On the other hand: would it be a surprise to find some of the information in both Guinness books...?;)


Regards
Michael

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Michael,

then it must have been the Baby, it was a 2.7 litre 4-cylinder car according to my book.

Stefan

[Pete Stowe]

Jean Trasenster, according to Autosport 1953.

A history of the event (French text) was published in 1991 - Marathon De La Route 1931-71, by Delsaux.

[David McKinney]

Jean certainly seems more likely than the strange Ginet reference I had - perhaps it's a well-known Belgian diminutive, like Jeannot?

[jarama]

Udo,


Marathon de la Route 1967

August 22th/26th

43 starters

1st, Vic Elford / Jochen Neerpasch / Hans Hermann, Porsche 911R, 350 laps
2nd, Vernaeve / Tony Fall / Andrew Hedges, BMC Mini-Cooper, 316 laps - 1st in regularity
3rd, Christoffersson / Wangtre, Volvo 122S, 316 laps - 2nd in regularity
4th, Hajdusek / Mark / Vernirovsky, Tatra, 306 laps
5th, Cechmanec / Chovanec / Pelucha, Tatra, 306 laps
.../...
?th, Brel / Body / Havaux, Daf 44 - 3rd in regularity

other starters:

Meert / Jo Berger, retired - Berger fatal crash
Jacky Ickx / Gautot / Gosselin, Ford Mustang, retired - transmission
Giorgio Pianta / Gaban, retired - crash
Koch / Schuller / Hunter, Porsche, retired - engine


Marathon de la Route 1968

August 20th/24th

59 starters, 26 finishers

1st, Linge / Dieter Glemser / Willi Kauhsen, Porsche 911, 356 laps
2nd, Schuller / Blank / Steckonig, Porsche 911, 356 laps - 1st in regularity
3rd, Sandro Munari / Harry Kallstrom / Raffaele Pinto, Lancia Fulvia, 348 laps - 2nd in regularity
4th, Eldé / Deprez / Jipea, Mazda, 344 laps
5th, Hans Hermann / Damseaux / Dehnelt, Porsche 911, 330 laps
6th, Vernaeve / Tony Fall / Andrew Hedges, MG C, 328 laps
7th, Durieux / Nizet / Loyens, Lancia Fulvia, 312 laps - 3rd in regularity
8th, Parot / Portier / Zaganelli, Porsche 911, 312 laps
9th, Trinon / Brunninghausen / Schwanen, BMW, 310 laps
10th, Haxhe / Toussaint / Chavant, Daf, 306 laps


Marathon de la Route 1969

August 19th/23rd

64 starters

1st, Harry Kallström / Sergio Barbasio / Tony Fall, Lancia Fulvia HF 1.6, 322 laps
2nd, Dutchting / Scheider / Dengen, BMW 2000, 318 laps
3rd, Barbara / Carpentier / Duchauvel, Triumph TR6, 315 laps
4th, Copello / Rodríguez / Larreta / Franco, Torino
5th, Hughes de Fierlant / Berinchamps / Roger Enever, Mazda, 311 laps

other starters:

Jean-François Piot / Tim Schenken / Dieter Glemser, Ford Capri 2300, retired - engine
Innes Ireland / Amilcare Ballestrieri / Alcide Paganelli, Lancia Fulvia HF 1.6, retired? - crash
Sandro Munari / Umberto Maglioli / Raffaele Pinto, Lancia Fulvia HF 1.6, retired - brake system
Di Palùa / Fangio, jr. / Galbato, Torino, retired - crash


Carles.

[917]

Stefan,

thanks, this riddle seems to be solved.

Pete,

was this a book or an article in a magazine? I did a quick search and couldn't find it in library catalogues. Do you have more information?

Regards
Michael

[Udo K.]

Carles,

thanks very much for the results. Filled another gap..

Udo

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by jarama

Marathon de la Route 1969

August 19th/23rd

4th, Copello / Rodríguez / Larreta / Franco, Torino


Carles. [/B]

Is the mentioned Rodriguez / Larreta maybe identical with Alberto Rodriguez-Larreta?
Could very well be, as I remember the Argentinians appearing at a rainy Eifel day at the Ring with 3 or 4 Torinos practising for the 84 Hours. And I'm pretty sure that Juan-Manuel Fangio was involved in the adventure.

[Pete Stowe]

Michael,
It is a book - author Jean-Paul Delsaux, 144 pages, when new was priced at £19.95. That's all I know, but a search on www.bookfinder.com turned up a secondhand copy at Collectors Carbooks - Chris Knapman - for £85

[jarama]

Udo,

all this data is according to the french magazine "Sport-Auto". I don't know the answer on your question about Rodríguez Larreta, but the article give the names as if where two different drivers.

Regarding Juan Manuel Fangio, you're right, since he was the Team Boss for the four Argentinian Torinos.

[marhal]

About the participation of the Torinos and J M Fangio in the 1969 Nurburgring 84 hrs, I can add some facts............


It was a massive effort, using three cars plus a muletto, finally three cars took the start, the numbers 1, 2 and 3. After three and half days of hard race, the Torino number 3 (Eduardo Copello, Oscar Mauricio Franco and Alberto Rodriguez Larreta aka "Larry") finished the race in the fourth place, and first in his class (3000 cc and more). The strict reglament conspirated against the victory of the Torino, mainly because their drivers hadn´t mechanic skills..............Still today, that performance is reverencied in Argentina and the Torino # 3 is on display at the Fangio Museum (you can see the page www.museofangio.com). The Torino was made for the factory IKA (Industrias Kaiser Argentina) which mainly made Renault cars. The Torino was a derivation of the AMC´s Rambler Rogue, with the Fangio´s contact, was modify by Pininfarina. The model that raced at Nurburgring, the 380 W, used a derivation of the Continental engine (in line 6, 3800 cc, three Webers 40-40), and a ZF gearbox. For more information search at Google "IKA Torino", but those web pages mainly are in Spanish........................................


P.S: Recently, I read a history about the test made to the Torino in 1968 with the intention of race the car in the 1969 Montecarlo Rally, but the car was big and heavy. ___________The history tells that Lucien Bianchi tried the car and told to the argentinians that the Torino was better than the Ford Mustang, and that the Marathon de la Route was a race more suited to the car´s characteristics....................

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by marhal
[
It was a massive effort, using three cars plus a muletto, finally three cars took the start, the numbers 1, 2 and 3. After three and half days of hard race, the Torino number 3 (Eduardo Copello, Oscar Mauricio Franco and Alberto Rodriguez Larreta aka "Larry") finished the race in the fourth place, and first in his class (3000 cc and more). The strict reglament conspirated against the victory of the Torino, mainly because their drivers hadn´t mechanic skills..............Still today, that performance is reverencied in Argentina and the Torino # 3 is on display at the Fangio Museum (you can see the page www.museofangio.com). The Torino was made for the factory IKA (Industrias Kaiser Argentina) which mainly made Renault cars. The Torino was a derivation of the AMC´s Rambler Rogue, with the Fangio´s contact, was modify by Pininfarina. The model that raced at Nurburgring, the 380 W, used a derivation of the Continental engine (in line 6, 3800 cc, three Webers 40-40), and a ZF gearbox. For more information search at Google "IKA Torino", but those web pages mainly are in Spanish........................................


[/B]

Thanks marhal, for all the information and it also answers my question on Rodriguez-Larreta.

[917]

Pete,

thank you for this information!

Regards
Michael

[Tim Murray]

In Paul Frère's autobiography, Starting Grid to Chequered Flag , he refers always to Ginet Trasenster and Télesphore George (not Téléséphore Georges).

[Leo]

1950 Dubois/Charles de Cortanze (Peugeot 203 Special 1490cc)

Could this "Special" probably be the modified Peugeot 203 by Emile Darl'Mat?
Charles de Cortanze raced for Darl'Mat before the war in the beautiful Darl'Mat roadster (based on the Peugeot 402). The team participated in Le Mans '37 and '38 and took a class win in the latter year. De Cortanze also set a speed record for 2-litre cars and I believe the car was even entered in some Grand Prix events in the second half of the forties.

[dmj]

Possible but i was under impression that Darl' Mat reworking of 203 was entirely oriented to adding luxus, not sporting modifications.
http://perso.wanadoo...essin/yr06.html

[ettiwed]

84 HOURS NUERBURGRING

1965 Greder/Rives (Ford Mustang)
1966 Vernaeve/Hedges (MGB GT)
1967 Hans Herrmann/Jochen Neerpasch/Vic Elford (Porsche 911)
1968 Herbert Linge/Dieter Glemser/Willi Kauhsen (Porsche 911)
1969 (Harry?) Kallstroem/Barbasio/Tony Fall (Lancia Fulvia HF)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It was in the 84 h Nuerburgring 1967
(23 aug 1967)

that George Berger - Bel - Porsche Sport had a fatal crass
He start in
1953 - GP of Belgie with Gordini
1954 - GP of France with Gordini

[Frank de Jong]

Encouraged by the succes of my search of Spa "non ETC championship" results, I've decided to include more international touring car races at some sort of top-level. So races like the Coupes de Spa, Nürburgring 84 - and 24 hours, some Brno and Fuji races etcetera - you'll get the picture. I leave out full national championships with international competition, like BTCC and DRM, by the way.

The Marathon de la route, in its Nürburgring 84h form, fits within this description, so I'll use this thread as a starting point.

A Belgian magazine (Sport Moteur) of September 1970 has a report on the 1970 race, but unfortunately no results. And the text is in French, which is perhaps my 4th best language.

Surprisingly, this thread stops at 1969...

Does anyone have any results of the 1970 version? I know VW-Porsche 914/6 (not exactly a touring car, but I'll turn a blind eye on that ;) ) finished 1-2-3 and I'll manage to extract some other details as well - like number 66; an Opel Rekord 4-door Stationcar.

In the text I encounter 86 hours as well; could a volunteer run 2 hours extra??

By the way: it looks like 1970 the Nürburgring had a 6-hour race, a 24-hour race and a 84(86?) hour race...

[jarama]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong


The Marathon de la route, in its Nürburgring 84h form, fits within this description, so I'll use this thread as a starting point.

A Belgian magazine (Sport Moteur) of September 1970 has a report on the 1970 race, but unfortunately no results. And the text is in French, which is perhaps my 4th best language.

Surprisingly, this thread stops at 1969...

Does anyone have any results of the 1970 version? I know VW-Porsche 914/6 (not exactly a touring car, but I'll turn a blind eye on that ;) ) finished 1-2-3 and I'll manage to extract some other details as well - like number 66; an Opel Rekord 4-door Stationcar.

In the text I encounter 86 hours as well; could a volunteer run 2 hours extra??

By the way: it looks like 1970 the Nürburgring had a 6-hour race, a 24-hour race and a 84(86?) hour race...

Frank,

according to the french magazine "Sport-Auto", issue October 1970:

Marathon de la Route 1970

18th-22nd August

1st, Gérard Larrousse / Claude Haldi / Helmuth Marko, VW-Porsche 914/6, 360/358 laps
2nd, Björn Waldegaard / Aake? Andersson / Guy Chasseuil, VW-Porsche 914/6, 359/357 laps
3rd, Claude Ballot-Léna / Steckonigg / Nico? Koob, VW-Porsche 914/6, 356/354 laps
4th, Eisenschenk / Stoffel / Joisten, BMW 2002ti, 328/327 laps
5th, Bandererde / Konigshofer / Theissen, Porsche 911S, 336/323 laps

Other starters: Barbara / Mordacq / Duvauchel, Triumph TR6, DNF - off the road
Erwin? Kremer, Porsche 911, DNF - crankshaft
Jean-Pierre Gaban, Porsche 911, DNF - connecting rod

Notes: I don't know why "Sport-Auto" gives the classification with two values in laps for every crew.

Carles.

PS: According to this magazine, the race was 86-hour long.

[Frank de Jong]

Thanks Jarama!

The differences in laps could perhaps be explained by penalties; I suspect that if you change a gearbox (for instance) one or two laps are subtracted

And why a 84-hour race lasts 86 hours is a mystery as well...

[Ian McKean]

The British magazines used to print "Aake" Andersson as Ake, IIRC. He started in Saab 2-stokes, I believe and then drove very sideways and quick in the Scania Vabis entered Porsche 911.

[kabouter]

Originally posted by Ian McKean
The British magazines used to print "Aake" Andersson as Ake, IIRC. He started in Saab 2-stokes, I believe and then drove very sideways and quick in the Scania Vabis entered Porsche 911.

Probably it's Åke then. The British have always refused to write accents that they don't know ;)

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by kabouter

Probably it's Åke then. The British have always refused to write accents that they don't know ;)

Not refusal - inability! Accents like that (whatever it's called!) didn't exist in British typefaces in the days of hot metal printing and hand-typesetting. It's only the rise of computers that has enabled printers to do it.

[kabouter]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Not refusal - inability! Accents like that (whatever it's called!) didn't exist in British typefaces in the days of hot metal printing and hand-typesetting. It's only the rise of computers that has enabled printers to do it.

Of course you're right on this. It was just a joke. But is the situation better now?

[Vitesse2]

To some extent, yes. But of course we still don't know how to pronounce Åke unless it's spelled phonetically, which is why we still write "Goering", for example.

[Stefan Ornerdal]

But of course we still don't know how to pronounce Åke

Try Auke, like in Austin.

I have seen somewhere a Swedish guy introduced himself like this: "My name is Göran, ö is a round ring with two pricks on it." (Dot=prick in Swedish!)

Stefan

[marhal]

In the 1969 Marathon de la Route raced a certain Luca Cordero di Montezemolo...........and finished.....................

[jarama]

marhal,

do you know more about Luca on the Marathon? What car? Pressumably a Lancia Fulvia HF. His team partners? Final classification?

Thankyou,

Carles.

[Ian McKean]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
To some extent, yes. But of course we still don't know how to pronounce Åke unless it's spelled phonetically, which is why we still write "Goering", for example.

So how did you do it, Vitesse2? Have you got a Swedish keyboard or did you cut and paste from Kabouter?

[Ian McKean]

Further to last post, I noticed in a URL given in the Walter Rohrl thread that his name had been spelt with an 'e' in it (actually in the address I mean). I was a little surprised as it seemed to be a German site, but I guess it was done to help us ignorant Britishers.

PS
How I hate that abbreviation 'Brits' that everyone uses for us these days! I would sooner be called a whinging Pom than a 'Brit'.

[kabouter]

Originally posted by Ian McKean
Further to last post, I noticed in a URL given in the Walter Rohrl thread that his name had been spelt with an 'e' in it (actually in the address I mean). I was a little surprised as it seemed to be a German site, but I guess it was done to help us ignorant Britishers.

In Germany when using a typewriter (back in the old days) or a font that doesn't contain the vowels with umlaut (or the standard ASCII set), it is customary to write an e after the vowel, so that it is possible to distinguish between for instance the o and the ö, which are different sounds altogether. The English speaking press instead didn't need to bother with that as they didn't have a clue about the pronunciation anyway ;)

(sorry, that was cheap, but seeing common names written wrongly is something that can annoy me sometimes, let's get back to the Marathon de la Route and stop this OT stuff...)

[Ian McKean]

Kabouter, please there is no need to apologise, your comment made me laugh. I think the off topic asides at TNF help to make the site so interesting.

[kabouter]

Originally posted by Ian McKean
Kabouter, please there is no need to apologise, your comment made me laugh. I think the off topic asides at TNF help to make the site so interesting.

True, it can be interesting to digress a bit. And it's hard to understand for me that even now (when technical limitations are no excuse anymore) some media don't make an effort at all to get names correct. By the way Ian, did you know that in a past thread on this forum - that I was reading because there were some posts about rallying - you managed to spell Röhrl consistently as Rhorl?;)

[marhal]

Hi Jarama...........


Luca di Montezemolo teamed with Cristiano Ratazzi (actually President of Fiat Argentina) and Ceccato (I haven´t his name) who was the mechanic. They raced a standard Fiat 125, with the number 33 and finished ninth.............sadly, I haven´t further information..........my specialty in that specific race is all about the IKA Torino...........................

[Ian McKean]

Originally posted by kabouter

By the way Ian, did you know that in a past thread on this forum - that I was reading because there were some posts about rallying - you managed to spell Röhrl consistently as Rhorl?;)

How embarassing. I always get it wrong unless I look it up somewhere before posting!

[kabouter]

Originally posted by marhal
Hi Jarama...........


Luca di Montezemolo teamed with Cristiano Ratazzi (actually President of Fiat Argentina) and Ceccato (I haven´t his name) who was the mechanic. They raced a standard Fiat 125, with the number 33 and finished ninth.............sadly, I haven´t further information..........my specialty in that specific race is all about the IKA Torino...........................

Ceccato could be Pino Ceccato, but I doubt if it was him if it really was only a mechanic. Pino Ceccato was Italian Group 1 Rally Champion in 1969 and 1970 at the wheel of a Fiat 125 Special. Almost all members of the Ceccato family were and are - son Massimo is one if Italy's most promising young rally drivers - involved in rallying, so the Ceccato in question might just as well be a brother or cousin of Pino.

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by jarama
marhal,

do you know more about Luca on the Marathon? What car? Pressumably a Lancia Fulvia HF. His team partners? Final classification?

Thankyou,

Carles.

Luca de Montezemolo finished 9th in a Fiat 125 (300 laps). Co-drivers Raltazzi and Ceccato.

Frank: Do you need 1969 results ? I have top 19.

[Frank de Jong]

I don't have more than this thread, besides perhaps a report in a Dutch magazine which I have to find first. So yes, please...

[Udo K.]

Here is what I have from 1965, 1967 and 1969:


1965:

1. Henri Greder/Johnny Rives Ford Mustang
2. Guy Stalpaere/Pascal Ickx Ford Mustang
3. Rainer Ising/Bernd Degner Porsche 904 GTS

1967:

in addition to above top 1-5

6. Brel/Body/Haveux DAF 265 laps
7. Claude Collignon/Petre/Demol Mercedes-Benz 265 laps
8. Günther Hennerici/Scherer/ W.Simonis BMW 1600 264 laps
9. Pierrat/Jean-Bernard Mermod/Defaud D.B. Panhard 255 laps
10. Roger Laurent/Marche/Coolen DAF 243 laps

for positions 1-5 I have following lap numbers: 1. 323 2. 311 3. 311 4.268 5.268

The difference in lap numbers almost certainly comes from the penalty laps which were imposed on the cars for different rule infringements.


1968: same as above

1969:
1. Harry Kallström/Sergio Barbasio/Tony Fall Lancia Fulvia HF 322 laps
2. Heint Hennerici/Becker/G. Degen (all D) BMW 2002 318
3. Barbara/Carpentier/Duvauchel Triumph TR6 315
4. Edoardo Copello/Alberto Rodriguez-Larreta/Oscar-Mauricio Franco Ford Torino 315
5. Helmut Kelleners/Roger Enever/Pierre-Yves Bertinchamps Mazda 311
6. Framz-Josef Rieder/H. Degen/Bökmann (all D) Porsche 911 309
7. Jans/Bous/Lagodny (all LUX) BMW 2002 303
8. Walter Simonis/Horst Hoier/Vogl (all D) BMW 2002 302
9. Luca di Montezemolo/Rattazzi/Ceccato Fiat 125 300
10. Georg Bialas/Hans Vängstre/Evert Christoffersson Volvo 144 299
11. Rob Slotemaker/Rob Janssen/T. Koks DAF 55 294
12. "Francois"/Heligoin/Nizet (all F) Renault R8 Gordini 294
13. Gudladt/Niehaus/Kuhlmann (all D) Alfa Romeo GTI 297
14. Claude Laurent/Jacques Marche/Dyon (all F) DAF 55 290
15. Günther Hennerici/Traben/A. Schatz (all D) BMW 2500 282
16. W. Graul/Kerp/Bremmekamp (all D) Volvo 144 282
17. Claude Collignon/Deriviere/Ortmans (all B) Mercedes-Benz 280
18. Brunninghausen/"Alix"/V. Trinon (D/D/...) Mercedes-Benz 277
19. Raab/Baier/Binder (all D) DAF 44 259


The Marathon was run over both circuits, Südschleife and Nordschleife (30.55 KM per lap)