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#1 calo

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 17:52

Hello again :clap:

does anyone have information about cars of lemans between years 1923-1973. :D

bye bye :clap:

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 18:55

Here's one...

Posted Image

#3 calo

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 19:06

thank you Ray Bell. The pictures is beautiful.

#4 VAR1016

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 19:07

Originally posted by calo
Hello again :clap:

does anyone have information about cars of lemans between years 1923-1973. :D

bye bye :clap:


That's a lot of cars

Care to narrow it down a little?

PdeRL :smoking:

#5 calo

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 19:30

YES VAR: I need information about: ravel, amilcar, aston martin, ford , matra and alpine at le mans :)

#6 Vincenzo Lancia

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 23:22

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Here's one...

Posted Image


Hi Ray.... :)

Never saw that breadvan before.......is it 66 or 67??

And doesn't the windscreen look like taken from a Ferrari 250 LM?

Vince :wave:

#7 Vincenzo Lancia

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 23:25

well, had a closer look at the windscreen, and the roof line and a-pillar is'nt 250 LM-like.....but still, what is it?

#8 Vincenzo Lancia

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Posted 12 September 2002 - 23:27

..and the doors, rather Chapparellish.... :rolleyes:

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 00:27

From memory, the "Breadvan" was a 250 that could have been a GTO but wasn't.

Was it Scuderia Fillipinetti who built it? Anyway, it was either 1962 or 1963. Maybe it was a car from the previous year rebodied... but that would only be if it were 1962... nobody would have gone any other way than to get a GTO if it were for '63.

Certainly it was there alongside GTOs...

#10 Barry Lake

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 03:36

Just had a quick look through Le Mans entries for the 1960s, couldn't see anything as crook looking as the car in the pic.

There was a Ferrari 250 GTO "Bread van" in 1962, but it didn't look anywhere near as awful as this - and it was red.

#11 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 05:03

Right year, wrong car?

Well, maybe that's a fresh mystery to clear up?

#12 oldtimer

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 05:23

The 'Breadvan' 250GTO looked like a normal GTO from the rear of the doors forward, IIRC. It was the treatment of the rear that different.

#13 Vincenzo Lancia

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 08:22

Could it be the '62 gto breadvan with revised design/aerodynamics 2-3 or 4 years later??

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 09:10

I have no idea. None at all...

I obtained the picture in the following way...

Looking through books in a second hand shop at Zillmere in Brisbane, I found this unused but quite old (maybe ten or fifteen years old) book that was intended for people using their private cars for work to keep a log of the work mileage over the year.

This picture is simply on the cover! With no title, no explanation, nothing!

#15 Vincenzo Lancia

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Posted 15 September 2002 - 10:13

Just a "bump".

Someone in here must have a clue about this breadvan. I think the aerodynamics around the wheels are more modern, than '62....
And I still get that Ferrari 250 LM/275 gtb/250gto(LM style) feeling about the lower part of the windscreen.

hmmm :confused:

#16 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 15 September 2002 - 10:25

This certainly isn't anything that raced at Le Mans, it looks to me like it's from a Japanese race in the mid-60s?

I need convincing that it's actually a Ferrari at all ...

#17 xjohnnyjaguarx

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 17:23

it kind of reminds of some old pictures i have in some old french magazines about the temporada series in the sixties i could be wrong

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 18:21

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Here's one...

Posted Image


Revitalised so someone can, perhaps, identify this car...

#19 Todd

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 18:58

Is there a clue in the wheels and spindles, which look sort of US production based?

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#20 Nordic

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 19:18

Is there a hint of mid 60's Toyota 2000Gt about it? maybe something inspired by the Ferrari Breadvan, but built to race on the Japanese superspeedway?

Its going to bug me as I am sure as I have seen the same picture somewhere else recently, googled everything I can think of without success.

#21 PS30-SB

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 19:38

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Revitalised so someone can, perhaps, identify this car...


Try post #60 in the Ferrari 'Breadvan' thread: http://forums.autosp...&threadid=53725

#22 Frank S

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 20:02

I think it is a Corvette with pretentious dreams.

Frank S

#23 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 21:01

:confused: it is NOT a Le Mans car......

#24 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 21:38

Originally posted by PS30-SB
Try post #60 in the Ferrari 'Breadvan' thread: http://forums.autosp...&threadid=53725


Amazing... I feel sure I've never seen that post before! I must have been away working when that was posted.

So a Fairlady with some mods... and it was quicker than the others. Nice... I wonder if its builder ever thought it would achieve international recognition because its picture was used on a tax record book?

#25 proviz

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:18

The car is definitely Japanese and I have a magazine with photo caption that will tell what it is. May take some time to locate that mag again, but watch this space...

#26 PS30-SB

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 09:12

Originally posted by proviz
The car is definitely Japanese and I have a magazine with photo caption that will tell what it is. May take some time to locate that mag again, but watch this space...


But the car and it's owner / driver have already been identified. Look at post #60 in this thread:
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=53725

Here's a quote from that post:

Originally posted by PS30-SB That's a pic of the 'Fairlady RS20-II' - a privateer effort based on an SP311 Nissan 'Fairlady 1600' roadster chassis - designed, built and driven by Mr Masao NAKAMURA in conjunction with Onda Jidosha ( Onda Motors ) of Yashio City, Saitama prefecture, Japan ( just north of Tokyo ).

The car debuted at the 4th running of the 'Diamond Trophy Race' at Fuji Speedway on 4th September 1968, and won it's class.

The aluminium body was built by Onda Jidosha over a "semi space frame" that was attached to the original Fairlady chassis, and featured gullwing doors and the severe Kamm-inspired rear end treatment. The U20 OHC engine from the SR311 Fairlady was used rather than the R16 engine that originally came with the SP311 chassis. Contemporary reports give the weight of the car as 766kg.


If you are still unconvinced I can post more..........

#27 Nordic

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 10:18

Knew I had seen it posted somewhere else! just did'nt think it was on here.

While looking I did find this photo collection page that may be of interest to others about Japanese race cars

http://homepage2.nif...tsu/Photo1.html

#28 john ruston

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 10:53

Why not buy the Le Mans history guide that has a photo of every car raced from 1923.That will answer question.

#29 proviz

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 12:18

Ok, thanks. It's on another thread - I'm going though the threads from the beginning and hadn't got this far. Also, most of the photos from early threads are gone, so it's often difficult to follow which car is being referred to.
The two-tome Le Mans history is essential, of course, but this Japanese thing never ran there.