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The last shared drive in a Formula One Grand Prix


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#1 Joe Fan

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 00:52

Ok, here is a good question: When was the last time two drivers shared the same car in a Formula One Grand Prix?

I know that at the 1961 US Grand Prix, Masten Gregory took over Olivier Gendebien car's when Masten's car retired due to gearbox failure. Was this the last time this happened in a World Championship Grand Prix?

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 01:18

I opened this ready to put in Fairman/Moss at the British GP that year...

But yours is subsequent to that... and it was also against the rules.

I know of nothing since, I think you will be safe, but you never know... maybe at the back of the field somewhere?

#3 scheivlak

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 06:01

During the 1964 USA GP Jim Clark swapped seats with Mike Spence.

See http://www.forix.com...&l=0&i=3575&c=6 :
"On lap 40, Clark's Lotus began to misfire as a result of a fuel injection problem. Surtees, then Hill and Gurney, went by before he entered the pits on lap 44. The crew spent two laps adjusting the injection system, and he rejoined in next to last spot, but stopped again after only six laps. Chapman called teammate Spence in from fourth place and replaced him with Clark, trying to gain some much-needed points for his lead driver. Spence continued in Clark's car, but retired it after five more laps.
(....)
Clark was now in third, gaining on Hill by a second per lap and nearly matching his qualifying time, until the second Lotus also began sputtering, this time unable to pick up its last few gallons of fuel. He retired, having completed 102 laps, and was eventually classified seventh, out of the points."

Out of the points - but I guess he never should 've got those points?

#4 Joe Fan

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 06:22

Originally posted by scheivlak
During the 1964 USA GP Jim Clark swept seats with Mike Spence.

See http://www.forix.com...&l=0&i=3575&c=6 :
"On lap 40, Clark's Lotus began to misfire as a result of a fuel injection problem. Surtees, then Hill and Gurney, went by before he entered the pits on lap 44. The crew spent two laps adjusting the injection system, and he rejoined in next to last spot, but stopped again after only six laps. Chapman called teammate Spence in from fourth place and replaced him with Clark, trying to gain some much-needed points for his lead driver. Spence continued in Clark's car, but retired it after five more laps.
(....)
Clark was now in third, gaining on Hill by a second per lap and nearly matching his qualifying time, until the second Lotus also began sputtering, this time unable to pick up its last few gallons of fuel. He retired, having completed 102 laps, and was eventually classified seventh, out of the points."

Out of the points - but I guess he never should 've got those points?


Thanks! I do seem to remember that one now that you brought it up. :up:

#5 Roger Clark

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 06:33

Clark wouldn't have got points, but by finishing high up, Chapman hoped to prevent his rivals scoring.

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 06:52

I'm surprised that he was classified... I thought the rule introduced in 1961 precluded swapping cars at all...

Wasn't Moss excluded from the 1961 British race?

#7 oldtimer

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 01:00

That account does not sound like Clark racing for points - it sounds more like Clark being Clark. :D

As for the 1961 Aintree race, we were told that there was much arm waving and handwringing on account of other drivers trying to take on Moss thinking Fairman was in the Ferguson. Untrue, I understand, it was all about rules. But my, Moss was pedalling the Ferguson around the track pretty quickly, and using quite different racing lines from those in the Lotus.

#8 wingsbgone

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 17:20

F1 sages-

Is it within current F1 rules for one teammate to use his teammate's car after a red flag (more likely after two red flag starts, wherein the "T" car has been damaged during a start)?

Realize this is the Nostalga forum, but sorta fits the thread. Plus, this is where the knowledge resides :)

Thanks,

Wingsbgone!

#9 Don Capps

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 17:55

Here is what happened at Aintree those many Summers ago....

Fairman had struggled with the Ferguson and after a stop on Railway to investigate why the engine was not working, received a push start (from a bevy of photographers on hand for the antics as the cars tried to negotiate Melling Crossing) which under the new regulations now expressly forbidden. Fairman pitted the engine was attended to and it set aside for the moment. After he retired, in popped Moss, and off went Moss. And quite rapidly as well. In the rain, he was easily faster than anyone else and providing great entertainment to one and all. However, Charles Cooper pointed out the officials that the Ferguson had been disqualified and should it not be in the pits and not on the track? Alas, the Ferguson was ordered into its pit and told to cease and desist forthwith. Moss was quite put out at this since he was enjoying himself immensely. When told that Father Charles had been the culprit, Moss took a moment to chat with the Elder Cooper about his thoughts on the subject. Father Charles did not approve of Ferguson using the race as a test and development session. Moss walked away in amazement muttering about how things do change.



At Watkins Glen, it was simply Clark being Clark.

As to the question about today's rules: my educated guess is that once assigned a car, you are stuck with it. Therefore, if Kissy (Kissimmanee) Crunchcog in the #66 Pampers Team RC Cola & A Moon Pie Cyclops 2002f1 Powered by the Black Flag Death to Cockroaches V-10 chasssis CiA0 wishes to take over the similar #67 car of teammate Trevor Meshingearkanin (or is it Trevor Crunchcog and Kissy Meshingearkanin?) after the world's best drivers twin fail miserably at getting 100 meters past the starting point -- no can do. Well, that's my story and I am sticking to it -- until something better comes along at least....

#10 dmj

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 18:02

Originally posted by Don Capps
As to the question about today's rules: my educated guess is that once assigned a car, you are stuck with it. Therefore, if Kissy (Kissimmanee) Crunchcog in the #66 Pampers Team RC Cola & A Moon Pie Cyclops 2002f1 Powered by the Black Flag Death to Cockroaches V-10 chasssis CiA0 wishes to take over the similar #67 car of teammate Trevor Meshingearkanin (or is it Trevor Crunchcog and Kissy Meshingearkanin?) after the world's best drivers twin fail miserably at getting 100 meters past the starting point -- no can do. Well, that's my story and I am sticking to it -- until something better comes along at least....

Well, that database will surely be a challenge to create if we will have to include details about such prominent motorsport entities like these two drivers and their team ...

#11 Roger Clark

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 18:20

After he retired, in popped Moss, and off went Moss. And quite rapidly as well. In the rain, he was easily faster than anyone else and providing great entertainment to one and all.



I'm not sure whether this is wholly true. By the time Moss took over the Ferguson, the rain had stopped and the track must have been on the way to being dry. His initial laps were in the region of 2min 4sec, which was about 10 seconds faster than the Ferraris were doing in the early stages of the race. Moss eventually got down to 2min 00.8, which is about what he Ferraris were doing at the time. It's difficult to be sure bacause the Ferguson ws several laps behind the Ferraris.

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 19:52

Wasn't it Trebor Crunchcog and Keith (?) Meshingear?

Now where did they come from? Car & Driver, mid sixties? Which writer?

How I miss those days...

#13 Don Capps

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 20:00

The wonderful Stan Mott in R&T -- I had to update the names a tad for today's grid....

#14 oldtimer

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Posted 20 September 2002 - 21:34

Don, you omitted the chassis numbers of those cars. What do your sources say?

#15 Don Capps

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Posted 21 September 2002 - 01:08

Originally posted by oldtimer
Don, you omitted the chassis numbers of those cars. What do your sources say?


Which chassis numbers? Those for the Pampers Team RC Cola & A Moon Pie Cyclops 2002f1 Powered by the Black Flag Death to Cockroaches V-10?

#16 oldtimer

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Posted 21 September 2002 - 20:46

Sorry Don, I failed to notice the 'chasssis' was lettered CiAo rather than numbered. BTW, does the extra 's' in chassis imply the use of the well-known Cooper idea of curved tubes in a space-frame?;)