Big car?
#1
Posted 21 September 2002 - 08:59
My question is: given that these 43rd scale kit and model manufacturers are pretty accurate with their dimensions, why does this car appear so big in comparison to my Sharknose cars from 1961?
Was it a bigger car or is it simply an error on the part of Tron (the kit makers) which I would doubt, given the cost of the model. (Well over £100 if you buy it built - but a fraction of that in kit form.)
Does anyone have dimensions of the 2 cars to compare sizes?
Advertisement
#2
Posted 21 September 2002 - 09:31
#3
Posted 21 September 2002 - 10:55
But wasn't the rear-engined F2 car more correctly called the 156P? I'm probably wrong about this, but I thought it was based on the same chassis as the 246P which Ginther ran at Monaco in 1960, in which case it would have been bigger than a Sharknose, as it was essentially a front-engined Dino 246 chassis AFAIK.
Or not? Setright quotes a wheelbase of 7ft 1in (later 7ft 7.5in) with front track of 4ft 0in and rear track of 3ft 11in, but that's probably for the front-engined Dino 246.
Sounds to me like the figures quoted in Tanner/Nye are for the older car only. Even in 1968 it wasn't possible to go and measure a Sharknose, which is presumably why it's blank in Setright.
#4
Posted 21 September 2002 - 11:21
I'm probably wrong about this, but I thought it was based on the same chassis as the 246P which Ginther ran at Monaco in 1960, in which case it would have been bigger than a Sharknose, as it was essentially a front-engined Dino 246 chassis AFAIK.
Yes, Pete, I think you may well be right about that one because the general shape of the front end of the model I have is very similar to my home-made slot-race rear-engined 246P.
I always wondered if the reason that the rear-engined car never ran at Monza that year, when they entered as many Ferraris as they could in the absence of the British works teams, was because the car no longer existed. Whereas, the 1.5 litre rear-engined car DID race.
#5
Posted 21 September 2002 - 11:46
#6
Posted 21 September 2002 - 11:49
I believe that the rear-engined car that ran at Monaco in 1960, in Formula 2 at the end of that year and the car that Bagheti drove at Syracuse in 1961 were all essentially the same car, though much modified along the way. As Pete Stowe says, Tanner & Nye quote the same track and wheelbase for all of htem.
It is clear that the 1960 bodywork was much more bulky than that used in 1961. Presumably also, the 2.5litre car would require greater fuel capacity than the 1.5s and would therefore be bigger cars than the sharknoses. It is possible that te F2 cars retained the larger fuel tanks.
Incidentally, am I right in thinking that the bodywork of Beghetti's Syracuse car was different from that used in the later cars? When viwed from the side it looks much more stumpy with the upper surfaces more curved.
#7
Posted 21 September 2002 - 12:59
The track & wheelbase dimensions listed against the 246/RE are the same as for the 156.
The 1962 Interim 156 is listed with a wider track of 4ft 1 in, while the 156/62/P reverts to the original track, but is given a 7 ft 6 in wheelbase.
I understand that Tanner was an 'insider' at Modena, but he does not go into the origins of the 246 prototype other than saying that Ferrari had done some studies on the Cooper chassis owned by Centro Sud prior to building it.
#8
Posted 21 September 2002 - 13:18
DCN
#9
Posted 21 September 2002 - 14:58
Vitesse: sorry about that, as I scrolled back up after reading all the posts, I somehow missed the end of Pete's message and the beginning of yours.
Apologies, Bruce!
#10
Posted 21 September 2002 - 20:51
#11
Posted 25 September 2002 - 18:31
If I had bought this as a made up model, it would have cost me 170 euros; and I wouldn't have paid it! In kit form it was only 42.50 euros and well worth the effort and time it took to put together.
It is numbered as for von Trips at Monza.
#13
Posted 25 September 2002 - 18:48
#14
Posted 26 September 2002 - 00:12
How could anyone have measured the track on them, anyway? They ran so much negative camber that there'd be a very different figure at track level to what was measured at the top of the wheels... or would it be measured at hub height?
#15
Posted 26 September 2002 - 06:17
It also seems to have a stumpier rollover bar than the 1961 cars...
An interesting observation, Ray. Especially since neither the car in the Forix photo, nor my model, have any rollover bar at all!!!!!
#16
Posted 26 September 2002 - 06:22
#17
Posted 30 September 2002 - 23:58
Even the introduction of the rule meant little... especially obvious when you look at the Lotus 21 or the Ferguson.
It was years before serious rollover protection was built into most cars.
#18
Posted 01 October 2002 - 18:27
Is this the same car that's on pages 100 and 101 of Graham Gauld's book "Memories of Modena?"
#19
Posted 01 October 2002 - 21:25
Is this the same car that's on pages 100 and 101 of Graham Gauld's book "Memories of Modena?"
Well, YES and NO! If you check back in this thread you will find that the car you quote, which was the 2.5l F1 car did become the 1.5l F2 car later in the year.
The front end remained virtually identical, I think, but the rear bodywork was much lower as the V6 1.5 litre engine was, presumably, that much smaller.
Interestingly, Tron Models in Italy do make a model of the 2.5 litre car too. I'm very tempted!