41 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Just for minor diversion, what can we identify amongst the following? In the first shot, below I suppose the questions would be whose, what, where and perhaps above all WHY?



The following two are at the same venue:



Where is this - and who are they - in what?

and:



Guess what - but where?

Then there's this lovely line-up...



Followed by this unlovely ruin - driver somewhat singed but OK, but what 'was' it?



Then there's this bloke in what, where?



Followed by fingers in your ears time, because this was VERY noisy indeed...



But in the peace of a private workshop, what connection does this have with 241mph???



Then there's these chaps running in a Grand Prix...who, what, where?



And these chaps running flat-strap in a series of Grands Prix...query as above...



Admired by this extremely nice lady driver - who, what, where?



Of course there's nothing like encouragement from one's mechanics???



And an easy one to finish with - name them all...



DCN

[Gary C]

Great pictures Doug! Second from last looks to me like a James Hunt McLaren M23??

[Vitesse2]

From the number plate, presumably that odd-looking special is Irish - as are the next two, I think. Dunboyne perhaps?

Can't seem to pin down that pit shot - something non-Championship in 1960?

Is the burnt-out hulk the ERA E-type?

The next one's an Allard I think - in Australia from the look of it.

The noisy one is Silverstone 1973 - Mike Beuttler threading his way through the chaos as de Adamich's Brabham comes to a halt on the grass - the one with the white airbox at the back is Scheckter, isn't it?

No idea on that ugly duckling, but that's Stirling in the Cooper - South Africa maybe?

And the next one is Reims 1967 in the Trophées de France series - including a shot of Brian Hart in the Protos: the odd-looking #48 car.

Don't recognise the lady, but I think the message is directed at James Hunt ..... ah - I see Gary beat me to that one!

And I assume the last one is Daytona?

[Roger Clark]

The second picture is certainly Dunboyne; presumably the scratch men getting away in one of the handicaps. The Leinster Trophy?

The pit shot is the 1957 Syracuse Grand Prix

The two Loti and a cooper shot is the 1961 Rand Grand Prix.

[Roger Clark]

The final picture is Sebring, 1963

[pedro]

Cristabel Carlisle

[Wolf]

About Reims photo- what is that car behind Jimmy (I assume next to him is Gurney in Brabham perhance?) ?

And the first photo looks like 'Evil Sprite'- how Healey Sprite would look in the hands of Darth Wader...

[Vincenzo Lancia]

well, I really shouldn't be posting this......but

If the 250F's are from '57, why do they look so 56'ish?

the little odd car looks french........Matra....or was there something called Mathis??

is'nt it a Simca Gordini in one of the pictures??

[Rob G]

De Adamich appears to have been very lucky to get away with a broken ankle in that '73 pile-up...

[David McKinney]

That pitfront line-up is indeed the 1957 Syracuse GP - in April, Vincenzo, which is why the 250Fs have 1956-style bodywork. That and the fact that they are private entries
From nearest camera:
6 Godia 250F
2 Piotti 250F
26 Halford 250F
28 Whitehouse Cooper T41
10 Wicken Cooper T43
8 works Connaught (Bueb)
30 works Connaught (Fairman)
12 Rob Walker Cooper T41 (Brabham)
14 Rob Walker Connaught (Peter Walker)
I'll look at the other photos later

[Barry Boor]

About Reims photo- what is that car behind Jimmy (I assume next to him is Gurney in Brabham perhance?) ?

No, not Dan Gurney. I think the other leading car is Jacky Ickx in Ken Tyrrell's Matra.
Behind is the Protos, as already identified, with, I think, Jackie Oliver alongside and Jo Schlesser in the works Matra behind.
The date was 25th June 1967 and Jochen Rindt won the race.

[Roger Clark]

To judge by the instrument panel, the burnt out car is a Connaught.

[David McKinney]

OK, breakfast will have to wait
The second one down looks like the last cars to leave at the start of the 1961 Leinster Trophy race at Dunboyne - Naylor's JBW-Maserati on the left, probably Gerry Ashmore's F1 Lotus 18 on the right. Possibly Collomb's F1 Cooper next to the JBW, but I can't identify the Lotus 20
The Gordini was a well-known car in Irish racing from 1954 into the 1960s, and in 1961 (if that's when this picture was taken) was raced by Capt J A Burke
I agree on Australia for the Allard (if only because you can read 'Melbourne' on it) - Tom Hawkes? Reg Hunt? A N Other? I wanted the venue to be Bathurst, but that circuit has no right-hand corners on the flat
If we are looking at the 1961 Rand GP it's not Moss. Car 25 was supposedly Trevor Blokdyk's FJ Cooper, but it looks like a bigger model to me. Definitely Syd van der Vyver's Lotus-Alfa 18 behind, but I don't know which FJ Lotus 18 they're lapping.

[Barry Boor]

In the Sebring picture could it be that either Dan Gurney or Kenny Miles was rather slow out of the blocks?

[eldougo]

Car no 48 it looks like the driver has the first fullface helmut
ever invented, he must have had a bloody big head.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by eldougo
Car no 48 it looks like the driver has the first fullface helmut
ever invented, he must have had a bloody big head.

I assume you're not referring to Cristabel Carlisle

[Barry Boor]

Roger,

Somebody post an image of the Protos, quickly!

[Vitesse2]

Perhaps this will demonstrate the rather unusual lines of the Protos:

[jarama]

Originally posted by pedro
Cristabel Carlisle

Picture from Sebring '63, sharing the MGB with Denise McCluggage.

[pedro]

...and not enough pictures of her on TNF.

http://www.mgbexperi.../cars/6DBL.html

[Vincenzo Lancia]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David McKinney
[B]That pitfront line-up is indeed the 1957 Syracuse GP - in April, Vincenzo, which is why the 250Fs have 1956-style bodywork. That and the fact that they are private entries
........

David, thanks. I gather I should have been able to count that out my self, but ehmmm well....can't spend all my time thinking, can I?....

[Liam]

I thought it was R2D2 in the protos no 48

[David M. Kane]

Andrea was indeed lucky to get away with a broken ankle, but "Blocker" Buettler appears to have gotten through without a scratch! That was the
scariest accident I ever recall seeing with Jody sitting in the middle of the track waving his arms madly. Can you imagine what was going through his mind?

[Doug Nye]

Yes - what nearly went through Scheckter's mind was the entire Surtees team...would they have noticed any jolt, one wonders?

Dunboyne is absolutely correct for the first three pix, the Maseratis etc are indeed before the pits at Syracuse, and the burned out wreck is indeed a Connaught - Connaught, fire, Syracuse??? Think about it....??? Sebring is correct of course and the lady who was such a good driver is indeed the music teacher, Ms Carlisle. The F2 pack is indeed at Reims '67, and while the Cooper and Lotus 18s are on South African soil it's not Kyalami....

Is anyone going to have a stab at the 241mph link and the rather Flash Gordon-looking Coupe in the peaceful workshop.....????

DCN

[Roger Clark]

The Connaught must be Les Leston's, crashed in practice for Sysracuse 1957.

I'm going to need more of a clue if I'm going to contribute anything on that 241moh tough.

[Doug Nye]

Yep - Leston's B-Type - so what had that car achieved previously??? Production car speed...seating configuration....forerunner?????

DCN

[karlcars]

The charming little car in a French workshop is a prototype built to the order of Jean-Pierre Wimille and first shown on 9 June 1946 on the occasion of the Grand Prix de l'Autoruote de l'Ouest. It was engineered by P. Leygonie and L. Viel, the latter a former Bugatti technical director. Although Wimille planned a 1,500 cc V-6 for it, it was powered by a pre-war Citroen engine of only 56 bhp, with which it was capable of reaching 93 mph. Wimille moved on from this to his better-known Ford-powered prototype, also with central steering.

Doug, you have flummmoxed me with the 241-mph link. I thought it might have referred to an LSR car engineered by one of the creators but no LSR car ever set a mean speed of 241 mph!

[JohnS]

241mph rings a bell as the fastest ever speed on the Mulsanne straight, but I can't see the connection.

John

[Doug Nye]

Aah don't bother about it - merely cross-reference to V. fast production car which also uses centre-steering...;)

[karlcars]

D'oh! McLaren F1!

Must write something one day about sports and road cars with centre steering from Rumplers to Ferrari /Pininfarina prototypes.....

[dmj]

http://www.atlasf1.c...wimille roadcar

[Barry Lake]

Photo number six is Jack Murray, also known in those days as Joe Murray, or even more famously as "Gelignite" Jack Murray, winner of the 1954 RedeX Round Australia Trial.

The car is the Allard-Cadillac he raced for a few years, running here as a racing car.

Almost certainly, it is Gnoo Blas circuit at Orange, January 1955, although I can't recognise the exact place the photo was taken. He was forced by CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motor Sport) to cover the advertising sign (which I think said "Henderson Springs") at this meeting.

The odd thing is that Jack was entered in the programme for that meeting as number 8. There is another photo, used on the cover of the October 1955 Gnoo Blas meeting (second of only two meetings there that year), showing Murray hard on the heels of Jack Brabham in the RedeX Special (Cooper-Bristol), who is well crossed-up after charging past the Allard into a corner. Brabham's car has number 5 - as it did at the circuit in January - and Murray's car carries number 56, as in this photo.

[Don Capps]

I actually knew something this time around.... without looking at anything this is what I said to myself....

# 1 Looks like something we would have made in our garage in the late-50's...

# 2 I recognized a Cooper, hmmm another Cooper, a Lotus 20 or a Lola, a Lotus 18..... which with the English on the stores in the background makes it somewhere Down Under or Ireland...

# 3 Looks like a Gordini at....

# 4 The lineup at Siracusa I recognized immmediately, especially the Godia car in the foreground....

# 5 .....which narrowed down the demise of the car with the pre-selector gearbox to probably a Connaught....

# 6 An Allard somewhere in the English-speaking world, the tape hiding something which was probably advertising...

# 7 1973, British GP, Silverstone and Baby Bear Scheckter is presented by several teams with copies of "How to Win Friends and Influence People," Andrea de Adamich in the foreground and the March of Mike Beuttler threading thru the mess, with a glimpse of the Brooke Bond Oxo Surtees in the background....

# 8 I had not an idea as to what this was....

# 9 Hmmm, Cooper, Lotus, Lotus, perhaps South Africa....

# 10 Reims, F2, and the Protos behind the two Lotus 48's and Jochen Rindt tucked in behind Jim Clark, so 1967 -- the Protos was really something different....

# 11 Hmmm... Recognized her, but simply couldn't think of her name, had to look...

# 12 Message from the crew to James Hunt...

# 13 Sebring 1963, four Sting Rays followed by two of the Chaparrals and then a bunch of Cobras -- the cars being lined up by displacement in those days.... give me a bit and I will match up most of the drivers....

To those who got them, more power to you and a tip of the hat....

[barrykm]

Thanks for the pics Doug.

I think the South African pic. is taken at East London in the '61 SA GP, that would be the only place at that time to attract such a large crowd.

Don't know who the Cooper driver is, presumably though from the rear end of the grid, which (if I'm correct about the event) had a number of Coopers; J Guthrie (Cooper Alfa), W Dunlop (Cooper Alfa), Clive Trundell (Cooper Climax), and D Wright (Cooper Alfa)

[David McKinney]

OK, if it's the 1961 Sth African GP, where van der Vyver retained #3, we have John Gurthrie in his Cooper-Alfa T51 as #25

[dretceterini]

I have no idea what the 241mph and Wimille have to do with each other either. I believe the top speed on the Mulsane straight is 252, not 241...

To Karl: wasn't there 3 versions of the Wimille coupe, or am I thinking of another obscure French marque that looks very similar...maybe I'm thinking of a rebodied T57 Bugatti...but I can't find a photo of it...

[Jim Thurman]

I actually know a couple of these...

Obviously, number 7 is the big mess at the '73 British GP at Silverstone triggered by Jody Scheckter. Andrea de Adamich in the Ceramica Pagnossin backed Surtees plainly visible, at least the rear wing of the other Surtees is visible. I remember watching "highlighted" coverage of the race (a week later, tape delayed) on ABC's "Wide World of Sports". One of the rare glimpses of F1 on U.S. TV in those days. Truncated, highlighted coverage of Monaco each year was about all that could be counted on pre-1975. And the races on "Wide World of Sports" (be they NASCAR, USAC Champ or F1) were routinely cut away from for coverage of other sports, like the World Wrist-Wrestling Championships and so on.

Number 13, Sebring 12 Hours...the traditional LeMans style start.

Hmmm, let's see...drivers ID. There's Steve, Roger, Phil, Dave, Bill, Ed, another Bill, John, Ray, Tom, Dick, Harry...and so on. I'm not really sure of the 35th fellow

As always, great pictures Doug. Thanks for posting them.


Jim Thurman

[917]

dretceterini,

the 241mph do not refer to Le Mans, but to Ehra-Lessien (the VW test facility in Lower Saxony), as Doug said:

Aah don't bother about it - merely cross-reference to V. fast production car which also uses centre-steering...

i.e McLaren F1, driven by Andy Wallace on 31 March 1998, more you can find here:
http://www.mclaren.c...es/limiter.html

We will see how long this record will stand: the new Bugatti EB16 Veyron is announced with 1001hp and a top speed of 405kph (about 250mph).

Kind regards
Michael

[pedro]

We've had Stirling Moss and Trevor Blokdyk suggested - how about John Guthrie? Definitely van der Vyver in the Lotus-Alfa, then maybe van Niekerk. East London?

(This is just to prove that I did look at some of the other pics besides Cristabel Carlisle.)

[Anorak Man]

It seems that this is the only one to stump you all.

Should I tell 'em Doug?

This is in fact a previously unpublished shot of the Prototype DN 001

Built from the remains of a 1959 Morris Minor convertible, some Bristol Bolingbroke fueselage panels half-inched from Reigate RAF storage depot, and entered in the 1960 Round Britain RAC Rally, with sponsorship from "Blue Peter", driven by John Noakes and navigated by Valerie Singleton.
It was Mr. Nye's first and only venture in race car design, and as such is a collector's item. It has remained in storage for the last 40 years and is ready to race in Formula Libre, and Classic Clubman's events. Sensible offers invited. No time-wasters please

[Doug Nye]

Damn! He's got it....

DCN

Well, almost....maybe...or perhaps not...
And there's still a way to go on the South African shot...

[Jim Thurman]

I actually recognized East London and Reims as well, but #1 finally occurred to me...

#1 is cleary a nefarious attempt at blackmailing Mr. Donald Healey

Either that or the Shining Time Station Healey.

Was it constructed of boiler plate?

Surely Desmond Titterington didn't drive it, did he?


Jim Thurman