Jump to content


Photo

Rallying Questions


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 racer69

racer69
  • Member

  • 222 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 22 September 2002 - 13:15

Hey, just have some Questions about mid-80s rallying?

- In the thread on Walter Rohrl it is mentioed that each year Audi had a selected driver which would go for the drivers title and the other drivers and team aspirations would be directed at that driver (Mouton '82, Mikkola '83, Blomqvist '84, Rohrl '85 etc...), was there a similiar policy for the British championship, that one factory driver would compete there each year on a rotational basis, Blomqvist ran there in '83, Mouton in 1985 and Mikkola until Audi pulled out in 1986 (not sure who ran there in 1984?). What was Mikkola's plan for 1986, as only he and Rohrl were under contract, was Mikkola going to tackle both the British and World Championships?

- Why did Mouton and Blomqvist leave Audi at the end of 1985. Was Blomqvist after a new challenge at Ford, was Mouton sacked after a very poor 1985 season in Britain, did both leave due to the Audi not being as competitive?

- Why was Mikkola only driving a Sport Quattro in the British series in 1986, when the S1 had been around since mid-85 and used by Mouton in the last 2 rounds of '85. Also, why did Mikael Sundstrom during '86 only have an evo 1 Peugeot 205, not the evo 2 that had been around since mid-85?

- The Rothmans Dealer Opel Team started running the Manta's during 1983, at the end of the year did Rothmans pull the sponsership? if so what happened to Tony Fall's team, did it disband, did it rename itself GM Euroteam and go on the run the Astra's/Kadett's in Group A?

- What year did Russell Brookes change to the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, and why? and which year did he switch to GM Dealersport, and why again?

- When Group A started there was quite a mixture of cars, 4WD, RWD, Normally Aspirated and turbocharged. I have heard that in about 1990? there was a rule change for Group A rallying that stated that all cars had to be 2 litre turbocharged 4WD. There doesn't seem to have been many over 2 litre normally aspirated or RWD cars compete after the early years of Group A where there were Sierra's, M3s, Nissan 200SX's and Toyota Supra's, but was this an actual rule, and if so, why?

Thanks, i hope someone can answer something in there :)

Advertisement

#2 Holger Merten

Holger Merten
  • Member

  • 1,836 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 22 September 2002 - 19:08

In the thread on Walter Rohrl it is mentioed that each year Audi had a selected driver which would go for the drivers title and the other drivers and team aspirations would be directed at that driver (Mouton '82, Mikkola '83, Blomqvist '84, Rohrl '85 etc...), was there a similiar policy for the British championship, that one factory driver would compete there each year on a rotational basis, Blomqvist ran there in '83, Mouton in 1985 and Mikkola until Audi pulled out in 1986 (not sure who ran there in 1984?). What was Mikkola's plan for 1986, as only he and Rohrl were under contract, was Mikkola going to tackle both the British and World Championships?



Many questions. I'll try to answer some of them. 1981 was the first year of Audi in the World Championship, they had some great results, but also great problems to finish and to win (there was Acropolis with that disqualification, nobody understood) - and Mikkola was No. 1 driver, Mouton had to support him, In 1982 Mouton had after some good placements the best chances to win the World Championship. She made first in Portugal, Greece, Brazil, and had chances to win the world championship. In 1983 with blomqvist/cederberg, mouton/pons and mikkola/hertz Audi had three winnerteams, but Michelle had her chance in 1982, blomqvist was new in the team, he was the driver for Audi Sweden in 1982, with more contact to the Audi rally team, so it was mikkola, who got the new chance for the title in 1983, also cause mouton wanted to take it a little bit easier. And mikkola made it. Blomquist was for Audi a new rallyegod, for example, mouton used every chance in the training to sit beside blomqvist, she accepted his style of drive in a quattro in 1983. It wasn't official, when blomqvist joined the team, but mikkola should get the chance of the championship, and blomqvist should get it later (1984), this was Audis tribute to mikkola for his pioneer time at Audi. And in 1984 it was blomqvist year and not Röhrls year in the Audi team.

- Why did Mouton and Blomqvist leave Audi at the end of 1985. Was Blomqvist after a new challenge at Ford, was Mouton sacked after a very poor 1985 season in Britain, did both leave due to the Audi not being as competitive?



In 1984 Audi recognised the problems with the group B cars (the sport quattro S1 was a rocket, and the others: Peugeot and so were rockets too). It was hard for Audi on one hand to stay in business in rally-sport for 1985/86 (waiting for group S) and to play the role of a competitor with a technic, which is usually for a normal Audi 80. So 1985/86 were years to stay in the championship, but only with some rallies (four or five a year). This couldn’t be an opportunity for blomqvist. Audi knows since 1984, that blomqvist wanted to change to another team for a full season-opportunity. AND Audi wanted to stay Röhrl in the team....So blomqvist went to Ford, where he had good chances to win in 1986/87. It was not so easy with Michele, she was good for quattro marketing for years, and the quattro was good for her career for years. So Audi wanted to give her the chance to stay in the team with a reduced program in 1986 in the United States. But she dislikes travelling over the ocean and took the chance to drive for Peugeot (Germany). She left Audi in friendship. mikkola wanted to stay, waiting for the group S car.

- Why was Mikkola only driving a Sport Quattro in the British series in 1986, when the S1 had been around since mid-85 and used by Mouton in the last 2 rounds of '85. Also, why did Mikael Sundstrom during '86 only have an evo 1 Peugeot 205, not the evo 2 that had been around since mid-85?



The British program for mikkola was also a reduced program for him in a national series to let him stay with Audi. He only started in the World Championship in Monte Carlo (3rd). Waiting for the group S car from Audi, a mid-sized-engine racing car for 1987 or 1988. After the accident from Santoz in Portugal on march, 5th, 1986, Audi decides to leave this rally-championship. And if you had a look on the S1, it wasn’t a successful car in 1985. The quattro sport was safe. I believe that mikkola prefered the quattro sport because of the chance to win.

#3 kabouter

kabouter
  • Member

  • 156 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 22 September 2002 - 21:04

Originally posted by racer69
- When Group A started there was quite a mixture of cars, 4WD, RWD, Normally Aspirated and turbocharged. I have heard that in about 1990? there was a rule change for Group A rallying that stated that all cars had to be 2 litre turbocharged 4WD. There doesn't seem to have been many over 2 litre normally aspirated or RWD cars compete after the early years of Group A where there were Sierra's, M3s, Nissan 200SX's and Toyota Supra's, but was this an actual rule, and if so, why?

There was no rules forbidding anything else than turbocharged 4WD. Lots of smaller cars were rallied in Group A. Only rule in this respect I am aware of are that no turbocharged cars over 2 litres were allowed.

#4 Mark Beckman

Mark Beckman
  • Member

  • 782 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 23 September 2002 - 01:11

Originally posted by kabouter

There was no rules forbidding anything else than turbocharged 4WD. Lots of smaller cars were rallied in Group A. Only rule in this respect I am aware of are that no turbocharged cars over 2 litres were allowed.


Nothing else was competitive.

The 2 litre front wheel drive Opel coupe's of Malcome Wilson and Loiuse Aitkin Walker put on a good show for a bit though.

#5 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,924 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 23 September 2002 - 09:15

Originally posted by racer69
- The Rothmans Dealer Opel Team started running the Manta's during 1983, at the end of the year did Rothmans pull the sponsership? if so what happened to Tony Fall's team, did it disband, did it rename itself GM Euroteam and go on the run the Astra's/Kadett's in Group A?

I believe that they lost that sponsorship to Dave Richard's Prodrive where it appeared on the Porsches, BMWs and Metros for some years. The team was renamed, AFAIK, as you suggest.

Originally posted by racer69
I have heard that in about 1990? there was a rule change for Group A rallying that stated that all cars had to be 2 litre turbocharged 4WD.

Homologation into Group A was, and still is, open to any car that meets the FIA's requirements on numbers produced and permitted modifications. Most production saloon cars from the major manufacturers are still being homologated into both Groups A and N. I think you may be confusing Group A with the World Rally Car regulations which essentially superseded it at the top level. WRC does call for a 2 litre turbo 4WD car, but didn't come into force until about 1997(?) or so.

#6 kabouter

kabouter
  • Member

  • 156 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 23 September 2002 - 09:32

Originally posted by BRG
WRC does call for a 2 litre turbo 4WD car, but didn't come into force until about 1997(?) or so.

1997 is indeed the first year WRCars were allowed. Mitsubishi kept the Lancer in Group A until last year though, and managed to win the driver's title for the first three years against the WRC opposition, thanks to Tommi Mäkinen's driving talents.

#7 dmj

dmj
  • Member

  • 1,959 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 23 September 2002 - 09:35

Originally posted by kabouter

1997 is indeed the first year WRCars were allowed. Mitsubishi kept the Lancer in Group A until last year though, and managed to win the driver's title for the first three years against the WRC opposition, thanks to Tommi Mäkinen's driving talents.

...and Carlos Sainz's Amon luck...

#8 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,924 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 23 September 2002 - 09:47

Originally posted by dmj
...and Carlos Sainz's Amon luck...

With 25 WRC wins and a championship to his credit, Sainz can scarcely to be classed with Amon for luck!

#9 dmj

dmj
  • Member

  • 1,959 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 23 September 2002 - 11:47

Well, it showed once... and that is what I was talking about...

#10 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 September 2002 - 18:58

Originally posted by BRG
With 25 WRC wins and a championship to his credit, Sainz can scarcely to be classed with Amon for luck!


BRG,

In fact the championships are two, not one - 1990 & 1992.

Carles.

#11 Pete Stowe

Pete Stowe
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 23 September 2002 - 19:43

Originally posted by racer69

- What year did Russell Brookes change to the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, and why? and which year did he switch to GM Dealersport, and why again?


During 1977-79 Brookes drove works & works-assisted Escort Mk2’s. This was the end of the Escort era, and Ford then pulled out of mainstream rallying. Brookes was then signed by Talbot for 1980, to replace Tony Pond, although his originally planned programme was reduced following Talbot’s takeover by Peugeot. In 1981 he almost managed to negotiate use of an Audi Quattro in the UK, but when the deal with Audi fell through, Talbot made a car available with preparation done by Mike Little. In 1982 he had the opportunity to join GM Dealersport, and took it. Throughout all this he was sponsored by John Andrews Andrews Heat for Hire concern. Basically it was a question of working out the best deal and best car available at the time.