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replica redux


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#1 dbw

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 05:07

ok guys..here's a question for you;

you are given a choice between a fabulous original t-23 brecia bugatti[long wheelbase,touring] with good numbers, a fine history and perfect original patina ...or a total reproduction t-35b...not an original part in the whole thing[as the folks in argentina or ivan dutton can readily supply]..fair shape and good running condition..

so...all excuses aside..which vehicle would you rather have sitting,warm and ready to run, in YOUR driveway??..[oh, yes..you get to keep it..]

i know what i'd do...



:)

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 05:28

Personally, I'd go for the 35B, but that's mainly because I've never been able to get excited about Brescias.
However, if you changed your choice to a genuine 35B or a fake T59, I'd go for the 35B.

#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 05:52

35B... no question...

Even if the wheels are aluminium and the engine's going to be as unreliable as the originals.

#4 Mark Beckman

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 06:11

Well dbw as a man who has the experience with both real and replica Buggatti's, I am interested in what would you do as your opinion has fact within it.

Before you tell, and as you didnt stipulte as to what useage, I sway towards the Tourer, its the genuine thing always and something thats more usable to me.

#5 dbw

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 06:26

as implied in the offering..the "useage" would be to get in and drive the wheels off the old/new bugger.... other options...just sit and stare at it in the late afternoon summer sun [with a refreshing beverage of course.]


btw ray, they're not THAT unreliable and the alloy wheel thing seems to have caught on somewhat......

#6 ensign14

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 08:04

The original one.

#7 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 08:24

The 35B replica if you want to enjoy it flat-out - the genuine Brescia if you want to cruise, schmooze and not lose your money....

DCN

#8 Viss1

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 12:57

I'd be curious about the value of both cars. People are paying quite a bit for expert reproductions these days... depending on the history of the 23, the values might be comparable. As much as I love the styling of the 35, I'd still probably go with the original 23.

#9 petefenelon

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 15:21

Originally posted by dbw
ok guys..here's a question for you;

you are given a choice between a fabulous original t-23 brecia bugatti[long wheelbase,touring] with good numbers, a fine history and perfect original patina ...or a total reproduction t-35b...not an original part in the whole thing[as the folks in argentina or ivan dutton can readily supply]..fair shape and good running condition..

so...all excuses aside..which vehicle would you rather have sitting,warm and ready to run, in YOUR driveway??..[oh, yes..you get to keep it..]

i know what i'd do...



:)



The Brescia, no contest - it's still a quick little thing and who needs a racing car on the road?
Authenticity's a good bonus, too ;)

pete

#10 cabianca

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 04:58

This discussion raises an interesting question. The value of "reproductions" vis a vis "originals" (no living vintage race car is original) varies widely by marque. You can buy a Ferrari replica of a SWB or Testa Rossa for about 10% of the cost of an original. A "cut and shut" Alfa Monza, made from an original touring car chassis and engine brings about 1/3 or a real one. Other marques have even higher values on "reproductions". Anyone care to comment on why the value of "fakes" varies by marque.

#11 dbw

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 06:30

a good reason to replicate a car with little regard for cash outlay is that you simply can't buy one!..a good example was bob sutherland's bugatti tank...there seems to be only one extant; and one can neither buy it or drive it...the same goes for one of his last projects [that hopefully someone will finish] was a miller 91 front drive...the two remaining unmolested examples are resting in museums not soon[if ever]to be available...and the fortunate few ever to actually drive [or even hear] the harrah[now smithsonian]car are getting fewer..... :cry:

#12 Viss1

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 12:55

Originally posted by cabianca
Anyone care to comment on why the value of "fakes" varies by marque.

I think it's largely a factor of how valuable the original is/would be.

Since many, if not most, ultra-rare and desireable originals are sold at one of the boutique auctions, let's look at it from that standpoint. My opinion is that top-quality reproductions are so rare that they are subject to the same market conditions as their "real" counterparts; that is, if a buyer happens to be present at the right time, the repro may beat estimates. With ultra-rare and desireable originals, it's very difficult to estimate within 25% or so how much a particular car will bring at any given auction. Therefore, I'm not surprised the same situation exists for repros.

So my conclusions are a) it depends on what you're reproducing, and b) it depends on how badly someone wants it.

#13 rdrcr

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 14:35

Originally posted by cabianca
This discussion raises an interesting question. The value of "reproductions" vis a vis "originals" (no living vintage race car is original) varies widely by marque. You can buy a Ferrari replica of a SWB or Testa Rossa for about 10% of the cost of an original. A "cut and shut" Alfa Monza, made from an original touring car chassis and engine brings about 1/3 or a real one. Other marques have even higher values on "reproductions". Anyone care to comment on why the value of "fakes" varies by marque.


As Viss1 has pointed out, the value of reproductions depends greatly upon the desirability of the Marque in general and specifically, the particular car being reproduced. There may be however, some fluctuation with regards to popularity to the Marque and the subject car, this this in turn, will affect both the original and the reproduction.

The larger classics haven't enjoyed the same sort of appreciation rate that some racing and production sports cars have, though they haven't suffered from the market volatility either. Reproductions of these cars have, for the most part, mirrored their original brethren.

For another "2cents" answer to dbw's question, I much rather have a T-35 based upon esthetics alone. The Touring T23 is an ugly duckling elder sister to the GP car. Original or not, I rather have the racing car.

Originally posted by Doug Nye
The 35B replica if you want to enjoy it flat-out - the genuine Brescia if you want to cruise, schmooze and not lose your money....


Oh Doug where do you come up with these pearls? - Oh that's right, famous author ;) .... you've got some down-right famous opinion too :p ... I'd be willing to speculate that if the reproduction T35 was done as the original, as dbw claims, I seriously doubt one would lose their money. The biggest problem I see, would be having it be accepted for a historic race, so one could use their toy.