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About Jean-Claude Ogier


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#1 jarama

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Posted 02 October 2002 - 22:40

Hi, all,

I've just received an e-mail from a friend of mine, who is interested in the racing career of frenchman Jean-Claude Ogier. I know a lot of his rallying years, mainly on Citroën DS 21's, but I don't have any info in such areas as Le Mans appearances or maybe other endurance races. :confused:

Any data welcome on cars, results or so.

Thanks in advance.

Carles.

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#2 FEV

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 00:06

Ogier drove some of Charles Deutsch little Peugeot-powered sportscars during the 1960s' 24 Heures du Mans. He was best known as a factory Citroen rally co-driver, mostly for Trautmann. If I remember correctly, René Trautmann, Ogier, Bob Neyret and a couple of others were forming a sort of gang, being all from the same French Alps town (around Grenoble I believe). I don't remember him being a regular driver in rallies though, but as you know co-drivers in those days had their share of driving during races. It was him for instance who was driving the Citroen of Lucien Bianchi when they heavily crashed in Australia, shortly before the end of the 1968 London - Sydney Marathon.
Do you have a lot of results for him as a rally driver ?
:wave:
Frank

#3 WGD706

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 00:13

In the 1968 London-Sydney Marathon, there was an accident that robbed Lucien Bianchi and Jean-Claude Ogier in their Citroen DS 21 of an outright win.
The London-Sydney Marathon of 1968 used a 16,000 kilometre course that followed the heroic concept of travelling from one side of the world to the other.
This original race ran through England, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, West Pakistan and India, before cars were transported from Bombay to Fremantle for the crossing of Australia.
There were ninety eight starters, seventy two reached Bombay and finally, only fifty six made it to Sydney.
Ford made the biggest effort to win, with teams of Lotus-Cortinas from Britain, Taunus 20 MRS models from Germany and Falcon GT's from Australia. It was a Lotus-Cortina that led for most of the event, with Englishman Roger Clark and Swede, Ove Andersson sharing the driving. They were first to Bombay, and led across the Nullarbor until valve trouble stopped them near Port Augusta.
A cylinder head swap (which put another team car out of the event), kept Clark and Andersson running until a differential failure near Omeo in Victoria halted the car again. They finished tenth.
A German Ford driven by the Swedish topliner, Simo Lampinen and Begian, Gilbert Staepelaere, took over the lead, only to bend its suspension through the rugged Flinders Ranges of South Australia and then crash in southern New South Wales, with the finish less than half a day away.
It was a topsy-turvy event. The Belgian, Lucien Bianchi, inherited the lead in a Citroen DS21 and had the Marathon won, with less than 200 klms. of non-competitive motoring to go to the finish. But with Bianchi asleep and his French co-driver Jean-Claude Ogier at the wheel, the Citroen became involved in a head-on collision with a private car near Nowra.
Instead of collecting the £10,000 first prize, Bianchi gained a plaster cast on a broken leg.
Paddy Hopkirk remembers..."After we crossed the Australian Alps, and just before the last lap of the great Marathon road ran northward up the coast to Sydney, the great city on the eastern coast of Australia, the saddest accident of the whole Marathon happened. Lucien Bianchi was leading, and was all set to be an easy winner. We were approaching Nowra, some 110 miles from Sydney and the last control point but one. Suddenly the road ahead of us was blocked. We screeched to a halt. There lay Bianchi's Citroen, wrecked. Near it was a Mini, it's engine blazing. The driver, Jean-Claude Ogier, was unhurt, and was desperately looking for a fire extinguisher. Lucien was injured and trapped in the tangled wreckage of his car. The driver of the Mini was also trapped - with flames roaring inches from him. I grabbed the fire extinguisher we carried, and soon had the flames out.
Alec and Tony helped Jean-Claude to try to free the trapped men, while I raced back down the road to a place where there were a lot of spectators. Several of them piled into the 1800, and others leapt into their own cars, and we roared back along the road. Soon a way was cleared. While the other men helped with the wreckage, Alec, Tony and I set off on a double mission - to reach Nowra in time, and to get an ambulance for Lucien. We reached the control point with one minute to spare, and an ambulance was quickly on the way. Lucien soon recovered, but was tragically killed only three months later while practicing for the 24 hour race at Le Mans.
We were all saddened as we set off on the last few miles, but this kind of accident can happen in a rally. I have seen a driver lead all the way - and crash 200 yards from the finish. You see, it takes a great deal of luck, as well as skill, to come out top in rallying. Our sad feelings were forgotten for the moment as we reached Sydney on Tuesday, 17 December. We were the first car to arrive, and we had a fantastic welcome. The people of Sydney had turned out in their thousands to cheer us in. The cheers went on as more cars arrived."
Apparently, the local police had not done enough to control spectator cars. Many rumours spread about the Mini. True or not, it was a fact that police had done nothing to control spectator cars.
Hopkirk, a personal friend of Bianchi - who was later to die in a road racing accident - was even further upset by the way the police again haunted the Marathon field throughout the slow drive up the Princes Highway to the finish at Warwick Farm. At that magnificent now-dead race circuit, he parked the weary Austin 1800 to allow the winner, Andrew Cowan, six points ahead, to drive in to his hero's welcome. To the press, Hopkirk spoke bitterly about police 'Gestapo' and 'Nazi' and then drove off sadly to his hotel. He was not to compete again in Australia - a country he loves - until the next Marathon in 1977.
Warren

#4 jarama

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 00:34

Frank,

I have results on international rallying for all the gang, including Ogier, mainly on the Citroën ID/DS era. If you're interested, I can post them here, or sending to you via e-mail or PM.

Carles.

PS: Jean-Claude Ogier usually was one of the drivers of the Citroën team, alongside Trautmann, Verrier, etc. The Ogier acting as Trautmann's co-driver was Lucette Pointet-Ogier (Jean-Claude's wife) co-driving Claudine Trautmann.

#5 Barry Lake

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 01:30

jarama

Could you please either post them here or e-mail me also.

I have an interest in Ogier because of his exploits in Australia.

#6 FEV

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 01:49

Thanks for sorting my Ogier mix-up Carles ! Yes, I'd be happy to see your results for these great French rallymen, either here or 'privately' - as you prefer. Thanks.

#7 jarama

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Posted 03 October 2002 - 06:01

Barry & Frank,

I'll come back later posting the results here, so maybe is interesting for someone else.

Carles.

#8 ludwig

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 03:57

Hi friends from the forum!!!. I should
like to ask you one question about Jean Claude Ogier. I know that is the
forum´s subject, and I would like to ask you about his accident in Le Manns
66 where his car was burnt.
Thank you all!!!! Greetings for you!!! :wave:

#9 ludwig

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 17:14

:confused: Nobody know about his accident. :confused:

#10 tifoso

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 18:43

Originally posted by ludwig
:confused: Nobody know about his accident. :confused:


Here's the little I have:

#38 S.E.C. Automobiles C.D., France, C.D. SP66 - Peugeot 204
Drivers: Georges Heligouin, France; Jean Rives; France; (DNS) Jean-Claude Ogier, France
Accident on lap 91

#44 S.E.C. Automobiles C.D., France, C.D. SP66 - Peugeot 204
Drivers: Claude Laurent, France; Jean-Claude Ogier, France; (DNS) Pierre Lelong, France
Accident on lap 64

#11 ludwig

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 19:00

THANK YOU TIFOSO :)

#12 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 19:15

Originally posted by ludwig
:confused: Nobody know about his accident. :confused:


This isn't going to help much:

According to Autosport, it was his co-driver Heligoin who was driving at the time:

Around 12:30 am there was a bad shunt at Tertre-rouge, in heavy rain, involving Heligoin (CD-Peugeot), Scarfitti (P3 Ferrari) and Schlesser (Matra-BRM). Scarfiotti ran into the back of the Matra as Schlsser was reversing back onto the circuit. All three cars were wrecked but only Scarfiotti was taken to hospital.



A photograph shows the three cars parked beside the road. The CD is in front, then the Ferrari and the Matra. The Ferrari and the Matra are both facing the oncoming cars. There is no sign of any fire damage. The CD is carrying race number 53, which is not consistent with what tifoso posted. The caption says it is at Arnage, not Tertre-Rouge.

However.. Motor sport says:

Two of the small cars, a 6-cylinder ASA and a Peugeot 204-engined CD caused a worrying diversion by getting tangled up on the mulsanne Straight and catching fire, luckily without serious hurt



and later:

number 20 Ferrari had gone out with a flourish when Scarfiotti collected a CD in the Esses and Schlesser had been involved.



so it could be that Autosport was wrong about Heligoin's co-driver and Ogier was involved in the first one. Autosport says that a CD retired following an accident at 8.10 pm and gives its drivers as Laurent-Lelong.

Regarding tifoso's post, motor sport contains a photograph of car number 44 captioned as the4 Index of Thermal Efficiency winning Alpine of Cheinisse and de Lageneste.

Lastly we have three locations for the Scarfiotti/Schlesser/Heligoin accident: the Esses, Tertre-rouge and Arnage1

#13 ludwig

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 19:29

rOGER i HAVE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION ABOUT THE CRASH:

CD: JEAN CLAUDE OGIER
RENAULT: VERRIER/BOULHARDE
ASA: PASQUIER/MIUSSET :confused:

#14 tifoso

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 19:39

Roger, I could well be mistaken. My numbers could be their entry numbers and not the car numbers. All I am sure about is that they were S.E.C. Automobiles Peugeot 204s.

#15 tifoso

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 20:14

I checked the historic results for the 1966 Le Mans race.

#53 was driven by Georges Heligouin and Jean Rives. I had this listed as #38.
#51 was driven by Claude Laurent and Jean-Claude Ogier. I had this listed as #44.

The other Peugot 204 in the race was #52, driven by Alain Bertaut and Pierre Lelong.

I believe I had transcribed their starting position in the wrong column. :blush:

#16 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 21:22

This is from Road & Track (Henry N. Manney):

"... a CD getting sideways on a trail of oil in the fast Mulsanne Kink and one of the ASAs whacking it broadside, resulting in some spectacular fireballs and two broken arms for CD pilot Ogier"

This was at 20:30.

And more:
"Buchet crashed his Porsche on the entry [to the Esses] and then Heligoin's [Heligouin] CD, moving over in the Esses before a hurrying Scarfiotti, got it all sideways an collected the Ferrari for its pains. To compound the felony, Schlesser's Matra BRM then arrived at speed and piled into the tangled mass to form a pretty useful chicane. Nobody was hurt really but Scarfiotti got a 5-finger egg on the head that made him forget where he was but not what Ferrari was going to say when heard."

This crashed occured 00:01.

Ogier's CD was # 51, Heligouin's # 53.

Stefan

#17 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 21:41

So:

(Apart from the spelling of Heligoin/Heligouin)

Autosport differs from R&T about which drivers drove which CDs, about where the second crash ocurred, and at what time it ocurred (they gave it as 00:25.)

Motor Sport agrees with R&T about the location of the second crash, but gives no information about the drivers.

I don't know about American magazines, but the British ones didn't usually spend a lot of time investigating the French contenders for the Index of Thermal Efficiency, especially at half past midnight. I imagine that Gregor Grant relied on information supplied to him by the organisers.

Ludwig's and tifoso's information seems to be more consistent with R&T.

#18 tifoso

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 22:11

Charles Quéguiner's site has the following cars retiring due to accident in the 9th hour:

#20 -- Ferrari 330 P3 driven by Scariotti and Parkes
#34 -- Porsche 906/6 driven by P. Buchel and Koch
#42 -- Matra BRM M620 driven by Schlesser and Rees
#53 -- CD Peugeot SP 66 driven by Heligoin/Rives

The same site has the #51 CD Peugeot SP 66 driven by Laurent and Ogier retiring due to accident in the 6th hour. The #52 Peugeot driven by Bertaut and Lelong retired in the same hour with "embrayage / clutch" problems.

#19 jarama

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 20:35

Barry & Frank,

some stuff on Jean-Claude Ogier rally appearances:


1960
Tour de Corse Automobile
codriving René Trautmann, Citroën ID 19, DNF


1961
Tour de Corse Automobile
codriving René Trautmann, Citroën ID? DS? 19, 1st o/a


1963
Rallye Monte-Carlo
codriving Lucien Bianchi, Citroën ID 19, 4th o/a

Tour de Corse Automobile
Citroën DS 19, DNF, codriver Jean-François? Piot


1964
Acropolis Rally
Citroën DS 19, 2nd o/a

Tour de Corse Automobile International
Citroën DS 19, DNF, codriver Lucette Pointet


1965
Tour de Corse Automobile
Panhard 24 CT, 11th o/a, codriver Lucette Pointet


1966
Tour de Corse Automobile
Citroën DS 21, DNF, codriver Lucette Pointet


1967
Rallye Monte-Carlo
Citroën DS 21, 2nd Category 1

Rallye dei Fiori
Citroën DS 21, 1st Group 1 & 6th o/a, codriver Lucette Pointet

Coupe des Alpes
Citroën DS 21 Proto, DNF - braking failure

Tour de Corse Automobile
Citroën DS 21 Proto, DNF - clutch, codriver Lucette Pointet

Critérium des Cévennes
Citroën DS 21 Proto, DNF - transmission


1968
Rallye Monte-Carlo
Citroën DS 21, 2nd Group 1 & 19th o/a, codriver Bernadette Ogier

Rallye di Sanremo
Citroën DS 21, 1st Group 1, codriver Lucette Pointet

Coupe des Alpes
Citroën DS 21 Proto, DNF - clutch & gearbox

Tour de Corse Automobile
Citroën DS 21 Proto, DNF - hydraulic circuit

London - Sydney Marathon
sharing with Lucien Bianchi, Citroën DS 21 - DNF - crash with a non-competing car, Bianchi injured


1969
Critérium Neige et Glace
Citroën DS 21 Proto, DNF - hydraulics, codriver Bernadette Ogier

Rallye International du Maroc
Citroën DS 21, 1st Group 1 & 3rd o/a, codriver Michèle Véron

Coupe des Alpes
Citroën DS 21, 8th o/a, codriver Lucette Pointet


1970
Rallye Monte-Carlo
Citroën DS 21 Injection, Group 2, DNF - braking failures, codriver Lucette Pointet

Worl Cup Rally London - Mexico
sharing with Claude Laurent, Peugeot 504, DNF - crash

East Australian Rally Tour
Citroën DS 21, 1st ex-aequo with Edgar Hermann (Datsun 1600SSS) - Ogier's codriver Lucette Pointet


1977
Rally London - Sydney
sharing with Claude Laurent, Citroën CX 2400, 4th o/a


Notes:

- Lucette Pointet was to be Jean-Claude Ogier's wife
- Bernadette Ogier is his sister, I suppose
- Lucette Pointet was driver on her own, when not was codriving Jean-Claude Ogier or Claudine Trautmann
- Claudine Trautmann, René Trautmann's wife if I'm not wrong, was parting his time too at the wheel or in the hot seat - with his husband... family affairs.


Carles.