Help - can you identify this car?
#1
Posted 04 October 2002 - 21:53
Any ideas?
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#2
Posted 05 October 2002 - 00:12
#3
Posted 05 October 2002 - 00:20
#4
Posted 05 October 2002 - 00:26
Carles.
#5
Posted 05 October 2002 - 01:20
#6
Posted 05 October 2002 - 07:34
#7
Posted 05 October 2002 - 07:49
#8
Posted 05 October 2002 - 08:05
The 1990 Alfa Romeo group C prototype with the V10 engine, which was never raced. The model car shows a what-if kind of situation...
#9
Posted 05 October 2002 - 08:10
Lovely car!
#10
Posted 05 October 2002 - 08:33
Looks very likelyOriginally posted by Frank de Jong
I think it's this one...The 1990 Alfa Romeo group C prototype with the V10 engine, which was never raced. The model car shows a what-if kind of situation...
Frank, do you know any more about the history of this Alfa?
#11
Posted 05 October 2002 - 08:53
I must say the model car is well done, it could have raced like that...
#12
Posted 05 October 2002 - 10:39
You guys must have a look at this great site:
http://www.martinira...nt/timeline.asp
May here is the solution.
#13
Posted 05 October 2002 - 10:48
The section between the front wheels looks totally different, as do the headlights, and the bodywork between the wheels seems almost flat on the model but is clearly heavily inset on the real car. Also, the rise up to the rear wheel arches seems much steeper on the model.
Granted, many changes may have been made to the real car between the photo and its appearance on a circuit but seeing that it appears the car never raced, why would they have changed it.
Sorry chaps - I don't profess to know what the model is but I am fairly sure of what it isn't.....
#14
Posted 05 October 2002 - 14:04
Originally posted by Barry Boor
Sorry chaps - I don't profess to know what the model is but I am fairly sure of what it isn't.....
I take your point that there are differences but the roof mounted air-intake is similar (although a feature on many such cars), and could some of the differences be accounted for by the centrally placed headlights on the model?
Are we back to square one?
#15
Posted 06 October 2002 - 13:12
In Riccardo Patreses bio, there are some Photos of Gr.5, Gr.6 and Gr.C Martini sponsored Lancias, but not this one
So I think the builder of this model just made it out of the blue, and it is PRETTY!
Best wishes, DAMAMAHO.
www.asag.sk/danny.htm
#16
Posted 06 October 2002 - 18:52
Originally posted by damamaho
I don't know what chasis it is, but I know it did never race in Le Mans, not with No 40, not with Patrese and 2 Japanese drivers and not with an Alfa engine. So, why the Le Mans stickers?
In Riccardo Patreses bio, there are some Photos of Gr.5, Gr.6 and Gr.C Martini sponsored Lancias, but not this one
So I think the builder of this model just made it out of the blue, and it is PRETTY!
Best wishes, DAMAMAHO.
www.asag.sk/danny.htm
Indeed, seems to be a very pretty and convincing little fantasy piece. For a while I tried to find pictures of the LC1 after it had had a roof put on it and been sold to privateers, but it looked way too modern for that....;)
pete
#17
Posted 06 October 2002 - 19:05
I'm still convinced that the Alfa group C car was the inspiration, and the differences on the nose are because of the extra lights needed at Le Mans, a solution which has been used in a way before like with the Lola 610C of 1982. The rear wing mounting looks similar on the two pictures.
Maldwyn, could you ask for any additional details? Perhaps the exhaust manifold is visible on the underside, or an indication of the year the model was built.
#18
Posted 06 October 2002 - 19:32
#19
Posted 06 October 2002 - 20:38
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#20
Posted 06 October 2002 - 20:39
There was a succesful partnership between Martini-Racing and Lancia. If I rememebr right, it was Hans Heyer, the guy with that old fashiones bavarian hat, who raced for Lancia in long distance races (Group C?).
#21
Posted 07 October 2002 - 08:34
you are very well documented on that car. I would be interested in knowing what your sources are. I had never seen the picture you posted, do you have more or know of?
I have only press cuts (Autosprint) of that era, when they sometimes gave news of the project. It was intended to be sponsored by Martini indeed, and while at the time the articles gave the V10 as power plant, I met a few months ago the engineer who was responsible for it by Alfa at that time, who indeed told me the engine was derivated from the V12 Ferrari. However, the V10 went ahead in its development for some more time. Unfortunately, I had no time to ask further. I hope I'll meet him again next year.
#22
Posted 07 October 2002 - 08:50
Did anyone have the number 40 in the 3.5l Group C era? I remember the Alba was no. 41, if no-one had 40 it could indeed be a what-if recreation. (Although Patrese's name looks odd.)Originally posted by Frank de Jong
The 1990 Alfa Romeo group C prototype with the V10 engine, which was never raced. The model car shows a what-if kind of situation...
#23
Posted 07 October 2002 - 09:02
Ricardo Patrese> Martini- Lancia LC2 in Nürnberg 1982
Michele Alboretos Factory- Lancia LC2 in Nürnberg at the WM-Race 1984
#24
Posted 07 October 2002 - 09:06
#25
Posted 07 October 2002 - 09:19
You must have a look at this site:
At the bottom you will find some fotos, seemed to me, that your car is a combination from the Lancia LC1 and LC2 with some stickers from Alfa Romeo?
http://www.urban.ne....g/kit/vol.2.htm
#26
Posted 07 October 2002 - 09:53
#27
Posted 07 October 2002 - 12:51
Tom Zat, in upstate Michigan, actually has (or had) some 164 procar components..
I think the Martini logo is nothing more than wishfull decoration by the model builder; I have never seen a photo of the real car in anything other than red.
Stu
#28
Posted 07 October 2002 - 14:14
Seems odd that it should have used the Ferrari V12 because thay had their own V10, but maybe it was for testing only.
Looks surely to be quite a purposeful Group C machine. The orange car seems to be in a studio, a fullsize mock-up, perhaps?
I am with Frank, that the model must be an impression of 'what might have been' if the car in question would have raced...
I wonder if any car was ever completed, and run under it's own power before the project was shelved?
#29
Posted 07 October 2002 - 20:27
#30
Posted 07 October 2002 - 20:53
If it were an actual race car things would be different, but because it's a model, I vote that it's a fantasy car. It's kind of like putting McLaren style Marlboro markings on a Ferrari model and having people question it's origin. It's a rather pointless exercise.
#31
Posted 07 October 2002 - 22:36
#32
Posted 08 October 2002 - 17:14
Sadly there is no more info forthcoming from the source and so the idea that it is a 'fantasy car', perhaps based on an Alfa project that never saw the light of day, appears to be the answer. Nice car though :Originally posted by Maldwyn
I will see what I can find out, or rather what the man asking the question of me originally can find out...
#33
Posted 14 October 2002 - 20:33
This is a (very attractive) figment of somebody's imagination! The base vehicle did exist as a prototype powered by the V10 engine which eventually found its way into the 164 procar. The prototype was finished in plain red and without the extra light pod and has recently been released as a resin kit by Raccoon. It's possible that Patrese tested the car but the model looks as if the decals from a Lancia LC2 have been applied to the modified kit. It certainly never raced at Le Mans as the door plates suggest!
Details of the Raccoon model are here
It appears as if Frank's early suspicions have been proved correct
#34
Posted 09 July 2003 - 23:07
Originally posted by Frank de Jong
I think it's this one:
The 1990 Alfa Romeo group C prototype with the V10 engine, which was never raced. The model car shows a what-if kind of situation...
Betcha Pascal is yearning for one of these!
#35
Posted 27 May 2010 - 14:30
I have been told that the car was to use the V-10 for the stillborn procar series...the motor that was going to be used in the mid-engined 164 "sedan" race car. Neither the procar nor the group C car competed in anything, and even though the group C looks like the Lancia, it is a different car.
Tom Zat, in upstate Michigan, actually has (or had) some 164 procar components..
I think the Martini logo is nothing more than wishfull decoration by the model builder; I have never seen a photo of the real car in anything other than red.
Stu
Photo of the first Brabham Alfa Procar just finished at Chessington
#36
Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:08
Mystery car ? by groupc, on Flickr
#37
Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:43
#38
Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:50
#39
Posted 26 July 2011 - 13:07
I think it might be an MG SA
Just as quick as I expected, thank you !
Looking at images of an MG SA in Flickr, I am tempted to agree with Dutchy, the profile of the wheel arches and external door hinges are very similar. Also from an interior shot it appears that the windscreen opens like the one in my image ?
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#40
Posted 26 July 2011 - 15:49
Just as quick as I expected, thank you !
Looking at images of an MG SA in Flickr, I am tempted to agree with Dutchy, the profile of the wheel arches and external door hinges are very similar. Also from an interior shot it appears that the windscreen opens like the one in my image ?
I sit corrected about the MG-ness, well done. But with that spare wheel, surely a WA, not an SA?
#41
Posted 26 July 2011 - 16:11
The VA also had a side-mounted spare. However, unlike the WA and SA the VA didn't have front quarterlights. Ergo, a WA. According to MG by McComb, you could have bought one for a very reasonable £442 in 1938.I sit corrected about the MG-ness, well done. But with that spare wheel, surely a WA, not an SA?