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Who of the famous drivers of the 30ies got a new chance?


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#1 Holger Merten

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Posted 05 October 2002 - 21:03

Here on TNF we are talking about motorsport of the last century. For some of us the 30ies are a great era of motorsport. But WW 2 interrupted that era. Who of the famous drivers got a new chance after 1945, where did they drive before the war and afterwards? Did they get a new chance in the "old" team? Or no chance any more? Or a new chance? Caracciola, Stuck, de Graffenried, Nuvolari, Lang, Sanesi, Kautz, Chiron, Varzi, Müller and so on, which way did they take?

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#2 Leif Snellman

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 01:02

Lang won the 1952 Le Mans of course.
Varzi's, Kautz' and Caracciola's comebacks were all interupted by bad crashes at Bremgarten, the first two fatal.

#3 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 02:15

Great pre-war drivers who were active in post-war grand prix racing
Tazio Nuvolari 1921-1939 ------ 1946-1948
Louis Chiron 1926-1936 --------- 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1955
Philippe Etancelin 1927-1936, 1937-1939 ------ 1946-1952
Achille Varzi 1928-1938 ------ 1946-1948
Hans Stuck 1929-1932, 1934-1939 ------------ 1952-1953
Luigi Fagioli 1930-1937 ------------ 1950-1951
Jean-Pierre Wimille 1930-1939 ----- 1945-1949
Piero Taruffi 1931-1936, 1938 -------- 1947-1952
Raymond Sommer 1932-1939 ----- 1945-1950
Carlo Felice Trossi 1933-1938 ------- 1946-1948
Giuseppe Farina 1934-1939 ------ 1946-1955
Herrman Lang 1935-1939 ----------- 1951, 1953-1954
Emanual de Graffenried 1937-1939 ------ 1946-1954, 1956
Luigi Villoresi 1937-1939 ------ 1946-1956

#4 Holger Merten

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 06:38

Thank you Hans.

Interesting point, some started just after the war in 1946, cause they got or had had a possibility. Others had their comeback at the beginning of the 50ies. After more than 10 years out of experience.

#5 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 08:02

Holger,
Let's not forget about the ban placed on German cars and drivers on the international level. This kept German drivers in Germany and likewise kept foreigners away from German events.


[Das Auto, July 1948, No. 7, pg. 18]
"Overheard in Bremgarten Forest...Count Lurani optimist? It can be assumed that the question of a German participation in international motor sport will be brought to debate at the fall conference of the FIA. And what will the resolution be? FIA Vice-President Count Lurani judges the situation favorably."


[Günther Molter & Kurt Wörner: German Racing Cars and Drivers, 1950, pg. 118]
"In October [1949] an important epoch of German postwar motor sport was finished. A great turning point for Germany took place. The FIA – the International Automobile Sport Federation – resolved at the general convention in Paris to admit Germany and gave permission for Germany to take part at international races. Thus, starting in 1950, German racecar drivers will be allowed to compete in foreign countries and foreign drivers will start again in German races."


[Das Auto, October 1950, No. 21, pg. 709]
"The FIA conference in Paris At the conference of the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA) in Paris, the German delegation was admitted amiably......
........"The restriction for German racing drivers to participate in other countries was officially abolished, enabling German drivers to participate again at every foreign race......"

#6 Holger Merten

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 08:59

Hans, as I told you, I'd like to have a deep look in your archive. Impressing, how good you are prepared.

But by the way, what is about the austrian neighbours. They could start. I think Stuck was austrian, started first on AFM and should start on Cisitalia in Kairo. Not on that fourwheeldrive post war construction by the Porsche büro....which looks a little bit like the Auto Union silverarrows (okay it as developed and constructed nearly by the same team, than the Auto Union, 15 years befor).

#7 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:13

Hans Stuck drove Formula B or F2 cars, not Formula A or F1 cars before 1952. The race in Cairo, Egypt was also for a minor formula, namely the group of 1100 cc Cisitalia cars belonging to the travelling circus of Piero Dusio.

#8 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:21

Prince Bira too resumed his racing career after the war.

#9 Holger Merten

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:23

But what about austria. Was there a possibility for austrians to get a license to drive in Formula A or F1?

#10 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:23

Originally posted by Holger Merten
Hans, as I told you, I'd like to have a deep look in your archive. Impressing, how good you are prepared......

I just copied it out of my history list, so no big deal. I thought I had sent you a copy of that list already since you would qualify as a contributor. :)

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:34

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Prince Bira too resumed his racing career after the war.

Right! Bira was not alone, there were others as well but they were not regular grand prix drivers and therefore they should not be included in the group of "Great Drivers". These situations will always be debatable.

#12 Holger Merten

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:37

Did you Hans? Last week I organized my archive, so that everything is near the Laptop at home. It's my wife's office, so I couldn't use so much space, but I didn't receive a list.

By the way, in Stucks book I found a passage about Hillclimbing with an Auto Union at the Maloja Pass (near St. Moritz. A very nice place, but I couldn't find anything in my Auto Union Fact Sheets about a Maloja Race. Before I open a new thread I'll ask you.

#13 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 10:01

Originally posted by Holger Merten
Did you Hans?.........

I will send it by e-mail.



Originally posted by Holger Merten
By the way, in Stucks book I found a passage about Hillclimbing with an Auto Union at the Maloja Pass (near St. Moritz. A very nice place, but I couldn't find anything in my Auto Union Fact Sheets about a Maloja Race. Before I open a new thread I'll ask you.

The first Race at the 4.8 km Maloja Pass (St. Moritz) took place on September 25, 1938. Stuck won with the Auto Union in 3m57.7s (the time is by my own calculations!). In 1947 was another Maloja Climb, won by Hürzeler (CH) on Maserati 1500 s/c. I don't know if Stuck took part. With his Austrian license he should have been able to do so. 1948 and 1949 were also races planned for Maloja but I have no results or dates. ......... Not yet!

#14 Holger Merten

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 10:07

Thanks Hans, great and so easy. :p and competent.

#15 David McKinney

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 17:36

Originally posted by Holger Merten
Interesting point, some started just after the war in 1946, cause they got or had had a possibility. Others had their comeback at the beginning of the 50ies. After more than 10 years out of experience.

But they'd been racing in lesser categories. Of those on Hans's list, Fagioli and particularly Lang were active long before their postwar return to the top level

#16 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 18:19

Originally posted by David McKinney

But they'd been racing in lesser categories. Of those on Hans's list, Fagioli and particularly Lang were active long before their postwar return to the top level

David,
I only considered time spent at grand prix races.

#17 Holger Merten

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 18:37

David,

may my question was not detailed enough. We are talking about great drivers in the past (30ies) and my interest depends on the chance to drive once again after the war in a great team or an interesting car or interseting race (which as not easy after the war and which doesn't make this thread easier, discussion is opended) but not on a market, just arround the corner, where spectaors are looking for a big name. This is marketing, but I'm more interested in the drivers who did it again: Nuvolari for example. Aft and not a "great" race. And there have been many more. And in that case it's interesting if you compare that to our days... Do you think Hakkinen will have an comeback by Mercedes, I know it's the wrong forum, but may it shows simply what I'm looking for.