37 replies to this topic

[Joe Fan]

Does anyone have any information on the 1991 World Go-Kart Championships? The reason why I am curious is that homestate driver Jamie McMurray won this weekend's Winston Cup race at Charlotte in only his second ever Winston Cup start. This is quite an accomplishment. According to his website, he won the World Go-Kart Championship in 1991. See: http://www.jamiemcmu.../biography.html

I am kind of curious to know who he competed against in that series.

[Ray Bell]

There are go-kart experts on ten-tenths, Joe...

[kabouter]

According to this list:
http://www.advancedk...ldchamplist.asp
Jarno Trulli was World Champion in 1991. It doesn't say which class this is, so Jamie McMurray probably won a title in another (minor?) class.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
There are go-kart experts on ten-tenths, Joe...

I forgot about that forum. I'll post it there.

[Ray Bell]

Say 'hello' to them for me...

Actually, could you get marcus to e.mail me?

[ghinzani]

Ray is there beef with 10-10nths? I post on both see...

[superbird]

Jamie McMurray was never a FIA world champion, the only American to win one was Lake Speed. The confusion most probably has arisen because several American karting organisations think they have a right to call their national championships "world" championsips.

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by superbird
Jamie McMurray was never a FIA world champion, the only American to win one was Lake Speed. The confusion most probably has arisen because several American karting organisations think they have a right to call their national championships "world" championsips.

I've just come across a report on the 1978 World Kart Championships and it's headed

Speed's Shock Title - American wins at Le Mans

Of the other competitiors mentioned in the report two made it into F1. Corrado Fabi and some Brazilian named Ayr Senna Da. They did get his name correct later in the report.

Lake Speed is referred to as "the 30 year old Real Estate agent from Mississippi, USA." He won two of the three finals. It was his sixth attempt at the title.

[theunions]

I believe McMurray was running in WKA, but don't quote me on that.

[fines]

Somebody has to tell the Yankees that there used to be a "world" before 1492, or 1776 for that matter...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah...the World Karting Association used to confuse the hell out of me with races in Charlotte North Carolina.

or better yet, 2003 Fran Am World Championship Winter Series which is basically North American Formula Renault winter series, with all 5 races being run out of Florida

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by superbird
Jamie McMurray was never a FIA world champion, the only American to win one was Lake Speed. The confusion most probably has arisen because several American karting organisations think they have a right to call their national championships "world" championsips.

They have as much right to call it a "world" championship as Europe does.

[fines]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
They have as much right to call it a "world" championship as Europe does.

This is not "Europe", it's the FIA. It may be based in Europe, but it's an international association/federation of world-wide Automobile Clubs, and as such the only one accepted in more than two countries. What is the WKA?

[Flying Panda]

I still dont see your point.
Then again, I dont see the difference between contesting a 'world' championship and holding 80% of the races in Europe, and contesting a 'world' championship and holding 80% of the races in America.

forget politial borders. look at geographial coverage.
you an argue that America is made up of 50 'mini-nations' if you like.

I dont see any reason why there cant be multiple 'world' championships.
Like those who say that Michael Schumacher is the 2002 World Champion.
What about Valentino Rossi, Macus Gronholm and Cristiano da Matta. They are 2002 World Champions too. However, if the title given to the winner of the championship is 'World Champion', there is little from stopping that person laiming that they are Champion of the world. But if the FIA changed the title for the WDC, then the winner may not have the right to brag as 'World Champion'. My local racing club could host a three race series, all at the same circuit, contested by only local club drivers, and the winner could easily be deemed 'World Champion'.

'World Championship' is just a name.
If you changed the name of the championship, would it de-value the championship in any way?
why? the compeition is still the same, its still as hard to win as it was before the name was changed.

[fines]

I agree: With a few buddies you could organise a football tournament and declare a World Cup. It probably has been done before. There's nothing in the name itself. That's why keeping track of sanctioning bodies is so important. It's easy to name something a "World" contest, but to bring a meaning to this name is less easy (something Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone found out in 1980/1, btw). And how many Boxing "World Champions" do we have, as a matter of fact?

To tell you the truth, I myself am a seven-time Formula One World Champion, 1987 to 1993 in succession! :proud: The sanctioning body was OIMD (Only In My Dreams).

[David McKinney]

The way I see it, it's a matter of recognition.
The FIA, made up of the representatives of every motorsport country in the world, declares that such and such a series shall be called a world championship. Every motor racing country in the world agrees, and you have a legitimate world championship.
In the other scenario, one country, or perhaps even one region, gives its event a "world" title, and no-one else in the world accepts it.
Which has the greater legitimacy?
And I'm afraid I don't agree with FP's argument that American karting organisers have as much right to call a series the "world championship" as Europe does. He can regard the US as 50 mini countries if he likes, but the fact is that it is just one country, whereas Europe is made up of several, which must at least give it a head start. And its is worth repeating that the FIA is a world grouping, not a European one.
Returning to my earlier point, I will be quite happy to call the AKA series (whatever it is) the official World Championship if enough other countries agree.
Afterthought: None of the above is to suggest a US-designated "world championship" is in any way inferior to one designated by the FIA (or FIM, or anything else) - other than in its title.

[rdrcr]

For what it's worth... (probably little in the minds of Europeans), The WKA (World Karting Association) has an open door policy, anyone that wishes to run its US track based schedule is welcome. Without doubt, this "championship" is named after the organizing body, and for that reason alone it is justly named. I don't know when the organization was formed, but it has to be at least 40 years old.

It is far easier to have a European based organization call itself a World Championship because the many of the countries are close in geographical boundaries. Though how could it be a true world championship if that particular organization doesn't offer events in North America or Asia or ? It doesn't really matter does it?

The organization that calls itself WKA has very diverse branches of the Karting world, Sprint, Road Race, Dirt Oval, etc., IMO, those that earn their titles should acquit themselves pretty well anywhere else.

I don't see a huge difference between the WKA and the IKF, (International Karting Federation) Both US based, in their nomenclatures of their respective championships, though the big race for the single IKF meeting is termed a Grand National Event.

From the IKF website: "...In recognition of the need for controls over the sport, the International Kart Federation has published rules for competition since November 21, 1957. Throughout this time, the objectives of the Federation have been the same: to foster strong and fair competition; to provide reasonable rules for the various types of competition; to administer the competition program with impartiality, and to reduce the hazards associated with this sport...."

A fairly significant alliance has been formed between the WKA and the SCCA, This news as of December 20th from the WKA website: WKA/SCCA Pro Racing Constructors Championship announced today that the two groups will merge, effective immediately, into one organization. The national karting championship will be known as the CART Stars of Tomorrow and will be in association with WKA and SCCA Pro Racing.

While not exactly on topic, it does appear that the IKF & WKA are a prominate force in the incubator series of motorsports and should be recognized as such.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by rdrcr

It is far easier to have a European based organization call itself a World Championship because the many of the countries are close in geographical boundaries. Though how could it be a true world championship if that particular organization doesn't offer events in North America or Asia or ? It doesn't really matter does it?

2001 World Kart Championship (the FIA sanctioned one) had a race in Canada, and most years has a race in Japan.

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by superbird
...The confusion most probably has arisen because several American karting organisations think they have a right to call their national championships "world" championsips...

Sorry to exhume the peacefully slumbering corpse of this thread but I've been reading through the "old" threads from before my time here and this one just brought flying straight back the following John Cleese quote :

It was on one of the American chat shows, around the time of "Lewinsky", and Cleese was asked what differences there were between Britain and America...

"1. We speak English and you don't.
2. When we hold a World Championship in a sport we invite other countries to take part.
3. When we meet our head of state we only have to go down on one knee."

APL

[David M. Kane]

Lets organize a World Organization and put it in NYC and let America do all of its dirty work...

[maxie]

I'm always annoyed by the name "World Series". How can a series be "World" when teams only come from USA and Canada?

Football players annoy me too. Very often I hear players, after winning the Super Bowl, saying "We're the champion of the world!" Very annoying indeed.

[David M. Kane]

They mean "our world", we need to change all of this stuff to "Planet
Champions"...

[maxie]

A "world" with only 20-odd million population is in no way big ...

[David Hyland]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
They mean "our world", we need to change all of this stuff to "Planet
Champions"...

Shall we discuss the Miss Universe pageant?

[rdrcr]

Originally posted by maxie
A "world" with only 20-odd million population is in no way big ...

What are you talking about son?

[maxie]

Originally posted by rdrcr


What are you talking about son?

Nothing ...

I mean, it's not reasonable to brag yourself as the world champion when your sport is mostly participated and watched by countries with about just a fraction of the world's population.

[maxie]

Sorry, my bad on US's population ...

[rdrcr]

As a suggestion to those who relish in taking issue of "Americans" naming their sporting series "World" why don't you write the organizations and see what their replies are. I would be interested to read them.

But trying to irk "us" into justifying or explaining why one of these organizing bodies has named itself what it did, will only lead us down a bitter road of "American egos run-a-muck, or some such thing..."

That kind of baiting really annoys me...

But Ross is technically correct, the FIA does have its series run in different countries and has a legitimate claim to calling itself a "World Championship" The WKA does not. Though its offspring should find their way into INTERNATIONAL circles just the same... Someone could do some research over the past 10 years on both and come up with some interesting stats I'm sure... Personally I could care less to devote the time.

[maxie]

Take it easy Richard, I am just annoyed by the name, and have no intention to blame anyone at all!

Cheers!

[ehagar]

Originally posted by David McKinney

Afterthought: None of the above is to suggest a US-designated "world championship" is in any way inferior to one designated by the FIA (or FIM, or anything else) - other than in its title.

Heh... this year the FIM has the audacity to hijack the AMA Supercross championship. They had two events in Europe, said 15 of the 16 AMA events in America are international rounds... AMA is seriously pissed off and is suing the promoter, the FIM is threatening to expel AMA... a real mess. All because Dorna and the FIM are incapable of attracting the best American riders in the world to go to Europe. It's beyond a joke. The best MX and Supercross racing is now in the States.

Ricky Carmichael, the best MX rider in the world, is ineligible for this 'championship' because he didn't go to the first European rounds.

Some world championships are as convincing World boxing champions.

[eldougo]

NOW THAT SAYS IT ALL END OF STORY.-------------------

But Ross is technically correct, the FIA does have its series run in different countries and has a legitimate claim to calling itself a "World Championship"

____________________________________________-

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Lets organize a World Organization and put it in NYC

That has already been tried and proved ineffective.

[David M. Kane]

My point exactly! I agree why can't we just use International which is a better and a fairer explanation.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Joe Fan


That has already been tried and proved ineffective.

As with any political organization, be it in NYC, Washington, London, Ottawa, etc...

[mp4]

Originally posted by maxie
I'm always annoyed by the name "World Series". How can a series be "World" when teams only come from USA and Canada?

Football players annoy me too. Very often I hear players, after winning the Super Bowl, saying "We're the champion of the world!" Very annoying indeed.

I could not have said it any better.

[ghinzani]

World Series by Renault anyone?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Entrants and races limited to the EU only, I think.

Though in defense of baseball, NFL, etc world championships; are there higher leagues in those sports being played anywhere else? Can you not make the claim that the best baseball players in the world are playing in the US league?

Now when they call NASCAR 'the best drivers in the world', that's stretching it a bit...

[jcbc3]

Entrants and races limited to the EU only, I think.

Though in defense of baseball, NFL, etc world championships; are there higher leagues in those sports being played anywhere else? Can you not make the claim that the best baseball players in the world are playing in the US league?

Now when they call NASCAR 'the best drivers in the world', that's stretching it a bit...

That held true until the NBA stars were defeated in the Olympics and Japan won the two Baseball World classic series (or whatever they were named). Likewise, the English Premeiership league has a (deserved/undeserved) reputation as being 'the best in the world'. That may be true, but it doesn't make the winner into World Champs.