Jump to content


Photo

1937: Auto Union speed record attempts


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#51 Leif Snellman

Leif Snellman
  • Member

  • 1,078 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 27 January 2003 - 08:23

Actually they did not rebuilt it (Chassis #1) but only added the upper fairing (but not the lower ones) to the left side, took a picture, and then showed a mirror image of that photo. It can be found in Nixon's "Silver Arrows" page 212.

Advertisement

#52 aldo

aldo
  • Member

  • 135 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 January 2003 - 11:31

Agree with Leif and Holger on two 1937 streamliners and two D-Type streamlined GP racers.
Besides Avus, there are many photos of 1937 Rekordwoche showing the two bodies.
If Holger is better than me at loading Word files here, I ask him for loading the short file I e-mailed him about the two Streamliners and engines at 1937 Rekordwoche. It's taken from the AU report. The C-Class car had a 5 liter engine, according to that report.

aldo.zana@agenpress.com

#53 Holger Merten

Holger Merten
  • Member

  • 1,836 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 27 January 2003 - 12:38

Aldo you mean this:

Stromlinienwagen at the 1937 Rekordwoche

From a preliminary check of my files, both streamliners were used in that Week.
The only major difference in the body is the canopy: on one car it’s like at the Avus, i.e. low and with sharper sides, on the other is higher, more enveloping, rounded, exactly like on the 1938 car. Looking more carefully at the documents, it should be possible to tell the two cars apart. I’d rather guess that Stromlinienwagen 1 is the one with the more enveloping canopy.

Stromlinienwagen 1 had the larger 6 liter engine (Class B). Actually, two engines were used, with different ratios, wheel/tyres, and compressors: S53 and C51. The former engine ran on October 25, 8 am, and Oct. 26, while the latter was installed and raced on Oct. 27.

Stromlinienwagen 2 (the one to be later modified for 1938 runs) had the 5 liter engine no. 12 (Class C). It was raced on 25, 11.45 am, and on 27, 12 noon. It raced again at 4 pm with smaller rear wheel/tyres. (It’s quite surprisingly that they used the smaller engine on the heavier car, yet for flying start records, wheight is not a major problem).

The C51 engine was also installed in the “Grand Prix Spezial 3” open-wheeler for standing start attempts on October 26, 12.30 pm.

(Aldo Zana, 26.10.2003)



#54 paulhooft

paulhooft
  • Member

  • 873 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 27 January 2003 - 16:08

I just got on this tread from the Rosemeyer one..
I think most members know that Revell makes an nice 1/18 Auto Union Streamliner,
and that Revival has some 1/20 models in both kit and Ready made,
including a model of that 1938 streamliner, that killed Rosemeyer.
The Revival models are very good, I have several of them,
Including the 1907 Fiat , Auto Union C type GP, 2 Bugatti's, 3 Ferrari's, 2 Alfa Romeo's and a Mercedes Benz.
However, there service is not up to that standard, I urgently need some replacement parts,
but they simply don't answer.
Typical Italian??:down:
Paul Hooft

#55 paulhooft

paulhooft
  • Member

  • 873 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 27 January 2003 - 16:10

Makes me wonder:
Howmany Replica Auto Unions are there exactly?
I have heard they have reconstructed a few??
Paul Hooft

#56 Holger Merten

Holger Merten
  • Member

  • 1,836 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 27 January 2003 - 18:17

Paul, talking about the existing AU's we have ten.

1 Typ A (Full replica)
3 Typ C (one more or less original, cause built up with new parts from the Deutsches Museum which was copied by Audi for the Audi Museum and the Audi Pavillon in Wolfsburg (VW)
5 Typ D: 2 from russia and rebuilt in the 90s, one found in Prague in the 70s, now standing arround in Frankfurt, owned by an asian collector and the most orginial car (the only one which survived russia) the Riga Wagen- the Typ D Hillclimber with V16 Engine, Audi made a copy for the Riga Museum.
1 1937 Avus Streamliner.


So the Riga Wagen is more or less original, the car from Prague is near originl, as well as the car from the Deutsche Museum is from 1936m but built up by Audi for two times in 1980 and in the late 90s.

Hope that helps?

#57 paulhooft

paulhooft
  • Member

  • 873 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 27 January 2003 - 18:46

Thanks for the answer:
As I had heard/ read in my books on the Auto Union's..
that there were only 2 or 2 and a half originals...
left:
this is :
Amazing?
Paul

#58 Holger Merten

Holger Merten
  • Member

  • 1,836 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 27 January 2003 - 19:41

Paul which books?Which cars? Perhaps you don't know the article about the "russian history" about the AU's published in october 2002 in "Markt". I could send you a pdf of the story? Send me an e-mail or a pm.

#59 paulhooft

paulhooft
  • Member

  • 873 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 27 January 2003 - 19:57

I have the Cancellieri book A.U. Die Grosse Rennen, the kirchberg A. U. Book, and some others.
and saw a Auto Union at the Donington collection, and one at Essen, some years ago.
When reading the October markt article and some info on this forum I realised that there were a lot of reproductions made or old partly rebuild cars , but I could not verify the sources..
That the reason of my question..
Paul

Advertisement

#60 Jorge Cadete

Jorge Cadete
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 27 January 2003 - 23:10

So that we can see how a modern day - well, it was 1987 :) - record car could look like, and what it could do, take a look at these adresses:

www.geocities.com/motorcity/8353/aerotech.html
www.fast-autos.net/oldsmobile/oldsmobileaerotech.html
Do I see twin turbochargers in a four inline? The F1 Alfa Romeu four inline used two turbochargers as well. I remember that the engine, at the time, was said to produce over 1000hp with 4 bar boost.

#61 Holger Merten

Holger Merten
  • Member

  • 1,836 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 28 January 2003 - 20:03

From a preliminary check of my files, both streamliners were used in that Week.



Aldo, do you have any details of the bodies and did AU built differet body designs. Or were both bodies the same design?

#62 aldo

aldo
  • Member

  • 135 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 January 2003 - 21:45

Originally posted by Holger Merten


Aldo, do you have any details of the bodies and did AU built differet body designs. Or were both bodies the same design?


Looking at the many Avus and 1937 Rekordwoche photos, the two bodies look strikingly similar. I may think that basic size and shape were the same, because they both had to fit on the GP chassis.
What deserves more study are the photos taken at the beginning of 1937 Rekordwoche with one complete Stromlinienwagen already unloaded from the transporter and a full Stromlinienwagen body still on the loading ramps, without chassis. Does it mean that the two bodies could share the same chassis?

About AU replica cars, and the "originals", there is a good book by Kirchberg et al., published in German by Motor Buch Verlag, Stuttgart, 2001 and, as far as I know, available also in the English, French, Italian editions. It's easy to find and full of beautiful photos. A-Type replica is still missing.

#63 Holger Merten

Holger Merten
  • Member

  • 1,836 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 28 January 2003 - 21:51

Originally posted by aldo


Looking at the many Avus and 1937 Rekordwoche photos, the two bodies look strikingly similar. I may think that basic size and shape were the same, because they both had to fit on the GP chassis.
What deserves more study are the photos taken at the beginning of 1937 Rekordwoche with one complete Stromlinienwagen already unloaded from the transporter and a full Stromlinienwagen body still on the loading ramps, without chassis. Does it mean that the two bodies could share the same chassis?

About AU replica cars, and the "originals", there is a good book by Kirchberg et al., published in German by Motor Buch Verlag, Stuttgart, 2001 and, as far as I know, available also in the English, French, Italian editions. It's easy to find and full of beautiful photos. A-Type replica is still missing.


Aldo, you are always talking about photos I think I never saw. And I saw a lot. Must have a look to your library.

#64 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,545 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 January 2003 - 10:50

Originally posted by aldo
What deserves more study are the photos taken at the beginning of 1937 Rekordwoche with one complete Stromlinienwagen already unloaded from the transporter and a full Stromlinienwagen body still on the loading ramps, without chassis. Does it mean that the two bodies could share the same chassis?

In the book Auto Union Album 1934 - 1939 , compiled by Chris Nixon, there is a picture (p174) similar to the one mentioned. The caption reads:

On the Wednesday morning Auto Union decided to see how well a streamliner could do from a standing start. One of the bodyshells has been removed so its chassis can undergo a change of engine.


The next picture, according to Nixon, shows the mechanics fitting the 'sprint' engine from the open-wheeler to the chassis of the streamliner.

#65 aldo

aldo
  • Member

  • 135 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 31 January 2003 - 23:38

Originally posted by Tim Murray

In the book Auto Union Album 1934 - 1939 , compiled by Chris Nixon, there is a picture (p174) similar to the one mentioned. The caption reads:
The next picture, according to Nixon, shows the mechanics fitting the 'sprint' engine from the open-wheeler to the chassis of the streamliner.


Actually, both captions should be wrong according to the original AU document I've already mentioned. In October 1937, AU had two Stromlinienwagen bodies and two chassis to fit them.
The Class C engine should have always been in the same chassi.
The Class B engine was taken out the streamliner and installed in the open-wheeler, not the opposite.

#66 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,097 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 31 January 2003 - 23:49

Did we ever establish which car this was?

Posted Image

#67 aldo

aldo
  • Member

  • 135 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 01 February 2003 - 23:10

It should be Stromlinienwagen 1, i.e. the one with the smaller 5 liter Class C engine. It is the same driven by Rosemeyer at the 1937 Avusrennen and used for the photo in the yard of the Zwickau plant after the acceident, as well as for the demo runs in 1939.

#68 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,797 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 03 March 2012 - 13:38

It's only been recently that I've begun to study in depth the period between 1934 and 1939. I have the following books and would appreciate any input from fellow TNFr's as to their reccomendations for additional reading material:

MERCEDES BENZ GRAND PRIX RACING 1934-1955
RACING THE SILVER ARROWS Mercedes Benz versus Auto Union 1934-1939
AUTO UNION GP RACE AND RECORD CARS their reconstruction and Restoration
DRIVING FORCES
HITLER'S GRANDS PRIX IN ENGLAND

Additionally there is the wealth of info right here on TNF which leads me to my question.
In Peter Stevenson's book he implies that the record attempts of January 1938 were on order from the Nazi hierarchy with the approval of Huhnlein and yet in Chris Nixon's book he states that Mercedes asked Berlin for permission, thru Jakob Werlin, to make the runs in January. From what I've read, January was hardly the time for record breaking attempts on the autobahn and even though I thought Stevenson's book was a bit overly dramatic and over the top at times my first thought was to agree with his theory. So, was there pressure from Berlin to put on a good show prior to the annual auto show in February or did Merecedes, having been humbled by AU the previous October want to get the jump on them early in 1938?

Edited by jj2728, 03 March 2012 - 15:44.


#69 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,364 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 03 March 2012 - 14:29

Don't set too much store by Stevenson. Start by reading these comments by Dennis Hockenbury and then continue down the page ...

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=1721720

Other books to consider would be Nixon's "Rosemeyer!" and "Shooting Star", Blight's "French Sports Car Revolution", Caracciola's "Racing Driver's World", Lang's "Grand Prix Driver", Ludvigsen's "Quicksilver Century", "Italian Racing Red" and "German Racing Silver", Venables' "Racing 1500s" and "First Among Equals", Pritchard's "Maserati: A racing history", Borgeson's "Alfa Romeo Tradition", Moretti's "When Nuvolari Raced", Lurani's "Nuvolari" and maybe Tragatsch's "Die Große Rennjahre 1919-1939" (which is only in German) and/or Moity's "Les Précurseurs de la Formule 1" (in French).

I hope you have deep pockets ;)

#70 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,797 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 03 March 2012 - 19:41

Thanks for the input. Yes it seems that my pockets do need to be rather deep after looking into the aforementioned volumes. We shall see. On another note I came across some photos today of the Rosemeyer crash site that I'd not seen before including the one here:

Posted Image

Photo credit should go to the German site MotorKlassik.
Apologies if this has been posted before.

and I wonder if Stuart could move this thread to the historical research section?