44 replies to this topic

[karlth]

"There is no doubt that Bridgestone were making tyres not just for Ferrari, but for Michael Schumacher," Mosley told ITV-F1.

How important is that? Is the best tyre for Schumacher also the best tyre for Fisichella or even Barrichello?

Comments?

[bira]

I don't know about Fisichella, but it seemed to be quite suitable for Barrichello, no?

[karlth]

Originally posted by bira
I don't know about Fisichella, but it seemed to be quite suitable for Barrichello, no?

They drive differently so the question is: Is it possible that tyres designed around Schumacher's driving style didn't suit Barrichello perfectly?

I remember many comments about teams complaining about tyres suiting one team better than the others but I can't recall any where a driver has said the tyres don't agree with his driving style.

[Earthling]

The fact that this thing exists disgusts me.

[raceday]

So, what does MM know about Bridgestones tire development? Given how secretive they are about it, I'd say not a a lot!

As far as I know MS has not done the main part of the tire development work? I thought they had a special test team for that? Whith burti as the main driver? However, MS is the No1 driver of Ferrari, and Bridgestone has obviously developed their tires mainly with Ferrari. So I suppose MS has had a say in it. My guess is that the tires are mainly developed for the car though, and not a particular driver

[Foxbat]

This is the kind of EVIL that destroys F1 and the world, many teams (swork, Limlock, phibbily-bop and Vroom-Vroom) have complained that the tyres suit one team better than the others, and even more drivers (Phill Wankert, Johhny D, Bill Bloomberg, Wong Wong Ho-Li-Min and Shi-wan-daran) complain that the tyres only suit their teammates.

Ok, so it was only Fisico who was driving a Jordan with the overweight pre-season evo of the engine who complained. But as they say no smoke without a fire

ps. Several people have also suggested that we should go back to how it was, unfortunatly for them it was even worse in the past

[Dudley]

with the overweight pre-season evo of the engine who complained.

As opposed of course to the overweight during-season evo of the Honda

[Ricardo F1]

Quite possible if you ask me - there was at least one race this season where Barichello simply couldn't get the softer tyres to work on his setup whereas Schumacher had no problem at all.

[Raelene]

hmmm, who was the main tyre tester at Ferrari - wasn't Michael was it - it was Burti....

[theMot]

What a load of garbage. Ok brainiacs, tell me how you design rubber to work for a person

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by theMot
What a load of garbage. Ok brainiacs, tell me how you design rubber to work for a person

Well in your case, they get 2 inches of rubber and..... oh we are talking about tyres!!!!;)

[Clone]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Quite possible if you ask me - there was at least one race this season where Barichello simply couldn't get the softer tyres to work on his setup whereas Schumacher had no problem at all.

And what if tyre degradation was higher than expected. Schumi's cater-mades may be more suited to Barrichello on that day. I find it hard to believe that Bridgestone could give Michael the optimum tyre race in, race out. Perhaps Bridgestone built the tyres for Michael's driving characteristics (fast out of the block, different braking style etc.) but they're really putting their eggs in one basket aren't they?

For me, I don't understand how Max has "no doubt" on this issue. I think he's just trying to strengthen the reasoning behind extending the tyre rule. If he's in "no doubt", then please, allow the tyre companies to custom make tyres for every driver.

[Sir Frank]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Quite possible if you ask me - there was at least one race this season where Barichello simply couldn't get the softer tyres to work on his setup whereas Schumacher had no problem at all.

But then again, Rubinho had difficulties with the car before (in all areas), where MS just destroyed the whole field (see 2001).

There is the test team for tires, bulit up around Burti, but MS gets to test the tires more often than not, before selecting them to a particular GP. There was a test before the Sepang race, MS decided that the (then) new development tires from Bridgestone are not up to the task. He did not want them, we could see what happened in the hot race. Ralf outpaced Rubinho easily and it was clear that Bridgestone on their old tires, again was inferior against Michelin in the heat. Come Brasil, the new development tyre was introduced in the race and it was brilliantly holding up, also offering more than enough grip. On a Michelin track.

Just remember what Ron Dennis said about the data sharing with Williams! So there is no thing as developing the tyre for a particular car or Schumacher, but he has the advantage to select from them for an upcoming race. But then again, MS is usually using more tires than Rubens, also he does ride the curbs more in faster corners.

[TAB666]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Quite possible if you ask me - there was at least one race this season where Barichello simply couldn't get the softer tyres to work on his setup whereas Schumacher had no problem at all.

Ehh, havent MS used Rubens setup on some occations .. pointed out by MS bashers all the time.

[Chris G.]

Max is just trying to draw attention away from his huge blunder with grooved tires. What a tool.

[Fastcar]

well longitudinal or latitudinal grip pressumbly on the rear tyres is what might make a difference, Fisichella already said that he did not like using 'Ferrari' tyres on a Jordan although its more significant to the drivers than it is in reality since they are super sensitive to changes like that e.g. you wouldn't find a rookie talking about it so one must assume it only make a tenth a lap difference, to fisi that's loads but to be honest its not the difference between a champion and a Barrichello.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by TAB666


Ehh, havent MS used Rubens setup on some occations .. pointed out by MS bashers all the time.

Yep, obviously not that weekend though. I'm not saying it proves anything or that it is the case at Bridgestone, merely that you can point to that weekend in particular, as Max, and say that exact thing with some credibility.

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Yep, obviously not that weekend though. I'm not saying it proves anything or that it is the case at Bridgestone, merely that you can point to that weekend in particular, as Max, and say that exact thing with some credibility.

Or you or Max could point to the weeks RB has an easier time setting up his car and say Bridgestone made the tyres for RB that week. I don't think you would be correct in either case.

[GDoering]

Wow you MS bashers will stop at nothing.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by George Bailey


Or you or Max could point to the weeks RB has an easier time setting up his car and say Bridgestone made the tyres for RB that week. I don't think you would be correct in either case.

IIRC correctly Schumacher never had to go to harder compound tyres at any time during the season whereas Rubens had the problem at least once. Like I said I'm not saying that Max is right, merely that is a fact you cannot dispute (though I still think it only happened once).

GDoering - you mean Max??

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


IIRC correctly Schumacher never had to go to harder compound tyres at any time during the season whereas Rubens had the problem at least once. Like I said I'm not saying that Max is right, merely that is a fact you cannot dispute (though I still think it only happened once).

GDoering - you mean Max??

I'm simply saying the fact that RB thought the soft tyres were too soft at a single race this season tells us exactly nothing about the topic of this thread.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by George Bailey


I'm simply saying the fact that RB thought the soft tyres were too soft at a single race this season tells us exactly nothing about the topic of this thread.

And what I'm saying, and seemingly what Max is saying, is that it's very odd that Rubens couldn't get a soft tyre working on an identical car to his team mate.

[Car no.27]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


And what I'm saying, and seemingly what Max is saying, is that it's very odd that Rubens couldn't get a soft tyre working on an identical car to his team mate.

Maybe Michael is a little better at making his tyres work overall than Rubens is in General.

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1

And what I'm saying, and seemingly what Max is saying, is that it's very odd that Rubens couldn't get a soft tyre working on an identical car to his team mate.

MS couldn't get his car working as well as RB at Austria, even though the tyres and cars were identical. That happens sometimes.

The evidence you present is that RB in 1 out of 17 trials did not like a set of tyres that MS did like. I'd say that 1 of 17 points much more firmly towards the idea that the tyres were not made for MS - or that the whole premise that tyres can be made to suit one driver is false.

[Ricardo F1]

And I'd probably agree, I mean how different are two driving styles in the same car?? Schumacher did suffer at Austria a little, but didn't seem to be blaming tyres. Rubens just did a better job. The one Rubens occurance he was specifically pinpointing the tyre problem - to change compounds in such a well balanced car as the F2002 seems drastic. My guess is it is possible, but it shouldn't vary that much.

[Teez]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1

And what I'm saying, and seemingly what Max is saying, is that it's very odd that Rubens couldn't get a soft tyre working on an identical car to his team mate.

It's "very odd", is it? Hehehe Damn those Bridgestone engineers! Even they have succumbed to the all-conquering conspiracy whereby mega-corporations and small-time individuals alike try their best to make Michael Schumacher look better than he is. For what nefarious purpose still isn't clear, but I'm sure we'll find out eventually. Right? ... Right? Hehehe

Yup, that's Ricardo, all right. If Ferrari or Schumacher is involved, then the merit for success always rests on some other factor such as a third-party or luck or anything, anything except the team or driver.

Source: DC - Ferrari will dominate! (08-Nov-02)

LMFAO!

[HP]

Could it be that MM (and BE) are a but unhappy about what LdM was saying about them recently. So they think a war of words will do?

[flyer72]

All season Ferrari was at least about a second faster than the competition in racetrim - which would suggest that Bridgestone worked on tires exclusively for Ferrari. They simply decided that Ferrari was their best shot to develop tires (and that is why Burti managed to get a job)... and it paid off!!!

I think it stinks - but what can you do unless F1 decides to only have one tiresupplier for the whole field? Either the tire manufacturers have to develop special rubber for ALL teams that they are supplying to suit their respective cars or we will continue to see this special treatment towards one team.

I wouldn't be surprised if MS got the latest development tires and that Barrichello had to wait a race or two to get them - but it will be hard to prove!!! Many times Barrichello was as fast or even faster than Schumacher so I can't say that I'm convinced.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Teez

It's "very odd", is it? Hehehe Damn those Bridgestone engineers! Even they have succumbed to the all-conquering conspiracy whereby mega-corporations and small-time individuals alike try their best to make Michael Schumacher look better than he is. For what nefarious purpose still isn't clear, but I'm sure we'll find out eventually. Right? ... Right? Hehehe
:

It was Max Mosley's comment Teez, not mine. Grow up.

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by flyer72

I wouldn't be surprised if MS got the latest development tyres and that Barrichello had to wait a race or two to get them - but it will be hard to prove!!!

It would be especially hard to prove MS got B-stone development tires weeks ahead of RB due to the fact that the tire makers supply the exact same tires to every team. The tires only become 'MS' or 'RB' tires once they come off the B-stone truck and are split into two identical piles inside the Ferrari pit.



What makes me laugh is that before the season the story had Ferrari screwing RB by having him do tire testing while MS tested the new F2002 chassis. The resulting F2002 was supposed to only suit MS.

Now the claim is that the F2002 is so well balanced that the only way RB could fail to get identical performance out of it is if B-stone made tires that only suit MS.

[Jhope]

Originally posted by flyer72

I wouldn't be surprised if MS got the latest development tyres and that Barrichello had to wait a race or two to get them - but it will be hard to prove!!! Many times Barrichello was as fast or even faster than Schumacher so I can't say that I'm convinced.

That's not right. Up until the end of this season, the tire suppliers were allowed to bring an Primary compound, and a Secondary compound. Each driver is given the right to use which ever compound they feel suits them and the car. So, Schumacher had the right to both, Rubens had the right to both, Fizzy had the right to both, Villeneuve had the right to both. There was no such thing, until this up coming season, as a development tire brought to a race.

[Ricardo F1]

RB failed to perform as well as Schumacher because he's not in the same class. That one weekend where Rubens couldn't get the soft tyre working was rather odd though (and yes, it was the only one).

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Ronchetti Provera, Pirelli CEO, just signed a deal with LDM to supply Pirelli slicks to Maserati Trofeo, 2004 GT contender, adding to Pirelli contract with Ferrari Challenge programme.

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
RB failed to perform as well as Schumacher because he's not in the same class. That one weekend where Rubens couldn't get the soft tyre working was rather odd though (and yes, it was the only one).

So you know which race it was? I was looking for the quotes.


As far as it being odd, it seems to me that having one driver happy with a tire, while the other is unhappy, or undecided about whether to go for the soft or hard compound is pretty common.

[black magic]

the final straw.

mosley is one of the biggest problems with f1 in that he wants to manufacture a close series.

how many of his changes have been winners. the points change will only be partially effective - it will favour reliability and just who wass the most reliable last year?

the big disappointment is bernie to even listen.

the real problem with f1 if there is a problem is the mickey mouse circuits max has created through pressure. how could it be we lose spa yet retain hungary?

sooner max disappears the better.

this latest insinuation is bordering on the slanderous

[tifosi]

Originally posted by flyer72

I wouldn't be surprised if MS got the latest development tyres and that Barrichello had to wait a race or two to get them - but it will be hard to prove!!! Many times Barrichello was as fast or even faster than Schumacher so I can't say that I'm convinced.

Not only what was mentioned above, but on top of that the tyres are handed out randomly by the FIA prior to the start of the weekend.

BTW did JPM and Ralf EVER use different compunds (the answer is yes), so does this prove that Michellin is developing tyres exclusively for JPM????

[logic]

Has Max and Bernie started a WAR against Ferrari?
How nice

[K-One]

Mika Salo said that tyres for Suzuka -99 were tailormade to Hakkinen's liking. Only MH could get the maximum out of those tyres at that particular GP...

[f1seb]

looks like lately the "best driver in the world" is relying on alot of "best in the world equipment" Make what you want with that statement it's pretty irrelevent to me at this point (not a schumi fan)

[George Bailey]

If anything it looked in 2002 as though Michellin made tyres specifically to get JPM onto the pole.

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by tifosi
BTW did JPM and Ralf EVER use different compunds (the answer is yes), so does this prove that Michellin is developing tyres exclusively for JPM????

Oh unquestionably.

[logic]

Originally posted by George Bailey
If anything it looked in 2002 as though Michellin made tyres specifically to get JPM onto the pole.

and how many times did we hear durin the season that you don't get points from poles?

[Scoots]

If you have a choice of being on pole or winning you take winning every time. Williams/Michelin obviously didn't think they had much chance at winning so they went for the good press of the poles ... and it worked!

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by logic

and how many times did we hear durin the season that you don't get points from poles?

True, but Michellin did get press, which in the longr un is the only reason they're in F1 in the first place.

[Scoots]

Originally posted by George Bailey


True, but Michellin did get press, which in the longr un is the only reason they're in F1 in the first place.

Hah! You may have got the pole, but I won the race!