Posted 06 December 2002 - 12:16
Recent detective work (with the assistance of Messrs Google and Georgano) has given me the answer. A driver by the name of Lebouc at the GP of Dieppe in 1908. How he can look so cool seated (?mounted) in his monstrous-looking Sizaire Naudin I do not know.
I believe Lebouc contested the whole 1908 voiturette season but with less success than either Georges Sizaire or Louis Naudin.....but then the trail goes dead; did he go on to lesser/greater things ? I suspect one of you lot will know...
Posted 06 December 2002 - 13:03
The height of the engine probably went some way towards making the car look monstrous.
It managed an average speed of 65.43 MPH for an hour at Brooklands in 1908.
Posted 06 December 2002 - 14:13
From memory, Lebouc drove for Sizaire et Naudin in the 1908 season, in July in the GP des Voiturettes in Dieppe, and in September in the Coupe de l’Auto pour Voiturettes in Compiègne.
Ex ante, because interesting, a rare cutaway of the 1908 Sizaire racer engine :
Bore/stroke = 100/250 mm, engine height = 105 cm, i.o.e. head, 75 mm valves, crankshaft in two ball bearings, 30 HP at 2400/min, lubrication through pure castor oil extra imported by a specialist from Marseille, throttle via variable inlet lift.
Posted 06 December 2002 - 15:04
Posted 06 December 2002 - 15:58
singles = max. 94 mm bore/min. 578 kg weight ... up to ... max. 120 mm/905 kg
twins = 70 mm/792 kg ... up to ... 90 mm/963 kg
singles = 85 mm/450 kg ... 100 mm/670 kg
twins = 71 mm/687 kg ... 80 mm/850 kg
GP in Dieppe :
singles = max. 100 mm bore; twins max. 78 mm; three cyl. max. 68 mm; four cyl. max. 62 mm; min. weight for all = 600 kg
100, 80, 65 mm bore for 1-, 2-, 4-cyl./500, 600 and 650 kg respectively
In fact the bore was always limited. While the engine speed is the limiting factor when the displacement is prescribed, in this case it is the piston speed. In 1906 and 1907 l’Auto left open a margin so that the engineers could decide how to reach the limiting factors.
Another important point is that the pistons ran very hot, with self ignition as a consequence. Smaller pistons could easier and quicker transfer their heat to the cylinder walls so that a small bore engine could run at higher speeds.
The Sizaire engine reached its balance (max. engine speed in combination with max. piston speed) with 100/250 mm.
The stroke was restricted in 1909, to 250 mm for singles, and in 1910 to 300 mm. De Dion built a 100/300 mm single.
Posted 06 December 2002 - 17:53
1907, Oct 28: Coupe Voiturettes (Ramboillet), Sizaire-Naudin #60.
1908, Jul 6: GP de Voiturettes (Dieppe), Sizaire-Naudin #63.
1908, Sep 27: Coupe des Voiturettes (Compiegne), Sizaire-Naudin #32.
1911, Jun 25: Coupe des Voiturettes (Boulogne), Sizaire-Naudin #38.
Posted 07 December 2002 - 09:51
Leboucq appeared in 1907 in the Coupe de l’Auto at Rambouillet, at the wheel of a Sizaire, finished 13th, 52 minutes behind his team leader and race winner Naudin. No trace of him before 1907, neither in voiturette races, nor in the usual French hillclimbs, nor in motorcycle races.
In 1908 he took part in the GP des Voiturettes and the Coupe de l’Auto, his mechanic being Dettelin both races.
In the GP des Voiturettes in Dieppe his time for the first lap (characteristic for the race) was 1 h 0’ 52” in comparison to Guyot’s Delage 56’ 39”, Naudin’s Sizaire 59’ 4” and Sizaire’s Sizaire 59’ 30”. In comparison to Naudin, Leboucq lost 48” in this lap, or 0,6 seconds per km. The reason may be that Leboucq’s car weighed 780 kg, Naudin’s only 730 kg (Guyot’s Delage 620 kg). Guyot won in 5 h 45’ 30 “, average 80,34 km/h. Leboucq finished 9th in 6 h 36’ 57”, average 69,82 km/h.
In the Coupe de l’Auto in Compiègne Leboucq finished 4th in 5 h 43’ 50”. Naudin won in 5 h 14’ 8”.
Some more details of the 1908 Sizaire racer: single plate clutch, 3-speed box, wheelbase 225 cm, track 117 cm, tyres 760x90, weight 730, 750 and 780 kg.
In 1911 the Sizaire entries for the Coupe de l’Auto were cancelled, the cars not being ready. And Leboucq disappeared.
Conclusion : Probably Leboucq was a kind of development engineer at Sizaire who tried out new solutions, a fact underlined by his starts on - by far - the heaviest car.
Posted 07 December 2002 - 10:35
Posted 07 December 2002 - 11:18
Posted 07 December 2002 - 18:54
Posted 07 December 2002 - 20:21
Sorry it's not up to the usual GPL quality...
Posted 08 December 2002 - 12:09
The future was less bright, the single cylinder machine becoming out-gunned by a variety of multi-cylinder hardware. Obscurity beckoned for the Sizaire-Naudin marque. A brief reincarnation in the early 1920's (albeit without the involvement of the eponymous Messrs Sizaire et Naudin) merely delayed the end.
Posted 27 December 2002 - 09:52
Posted 27 December 2002 - 10:18
Originally posted by bill moffat
The future was less bright, the single cylinder machine becoming out-gunned by a variety of multi-cylinder hardware. Obscurity beckoned for the Sizaire-Naudin marque. A brief reincarnation in the early 1920's (albeit without the involvement of the eponymous Messrs Sizaire et Naudin) merely delayed the end. [/B]
The Sizaire Berwick was the brief reincarnation?. (there was bother with Rolls Royce about using the same radiator design) Alas, no competition history of which I am aware. My grandfather drove one when he was chauffeur to the gentleman who owned Clearwell Castle in the Forest of Dean, in the early 20s.
Posted 27 December 2002 - 13:06
The Sizaire-Berwicks were the result of an Anglo-French marriage (in 1912) between the Sizaires and Frederick Berwick. Mr B was a London car dealer with status sufficient to have showrooms in Berkeley St W1. The chassis were produced in France and driven to La Manche, shipped over to England and then bodied at Fred's workshops in Highgate NW6. Production of these graceful vehicles was essentially between 1912 and 1914, some of the later chassis were equipped with armoured car bodywork and re-traced their steps to Northern France. I doubt whether these rather stately vehicles had any competition history.
The Rolls radiator design was allowable as RR had only registered their design in the UK and not in France. Sizaire Berwick called in the receivers in 1920, the Sizaires apparently returning to obscurity. Berwick was then involved in the British version of the French (again) Salmson..but that's another story...
Posted 27 December 2002 - 13:48
Originally posted by bill moffat
The Rolls radiator design was allowable as RR had only registered their design in the UK and not in France.
Apparently..."This resulted in a settlement out of court for £25000 in favour of Sizaire-Berwick as they had taken the precaution of registering the design whilst Rolls-Royce had not!"
Later the S-B had a vee shaped radiator.
(Ref Clutton, Bird, Harding. )
Posted 28 December 2002 - 11:45
In 1910/11 two 4-cylinders were added (70/120 mm and 70/170 mm) but never fully developped. After the debacle in the 1912 GP, the Duc d’Uzès fired the Sizaire brothers. Louis Naudin died in 1913.
The Sizaire & Naudin company continued to exist and to built cars, with 4-cylinder Ballot engines, until 1921, then went bankrupt.
1912 3-litre racer :
4 x single steel cylinders (78/156 mm) bolted together – crankshaft in 5 plain bearings – 2 side camshafts, each one in 3 ball bearings - 4 horizontal 55 mm-valves per cylinder, operated via pushrods and rockers – 3 plugs per cylinder – 80 HP at 2600/min, 90 at 3000.
Single plate clutch – 4 speed box in unit with rear axle – no differential.
Independent front wheels, transverse leaf spring – wheelbase 300 cm, track 132 cm – tyres 815x105 front, 820x120 rear.
= = = = =
Maurice and Georges Sizaire + Berwick + Alexander Keiller (financial backing) = Automobiles Sizaire-Berwick – production (or better assembling) in Coubevoie/Rue Louis Blanc - components by de Collanges – announced in The Motor/11 February 1913 (80/150 mm – L-head engine) - exhibited (one naked chassis and a Labourdette Coupé-Chauffeur) at the Paris Salon in October 1913 (90/160 mm) – exposition rooms in Paris/28, Avenue des Champs-Élysées and London/18, Berkeley Street – export of the chassis via Dieppe under the direction of Jack Warner.
Berwick offered a Limousine “Berkeley”, a torpédo “Sandown”, a coach “Burlington”, a coupé-chauffeur “Hanover”, a torpédo-sport “Atalanta” and a torpédo “Malvern” – chassis price 735 L. 139 chassis delivered untill August 1914.
During WWI Georges Sizaire was personal chauffeur of President Raymond Poincaré, of course at the wheel of a Sizaire-Berwick.
After WWI production in London/Abbey Road/Park Royal (new radiators – 95/160 mm) – 200 chassis built until 1923 – price 1550 L – factory closed in 1924.
The Coubevoie assembling plant (including licence) was sold to an American named Burke. Maurice Sizaire remained in the position of a consulting engineer, designed an OHV-head. Such an OHV Sizaire-Berwick took part in the 1925 24 h Le Mans race (drivers Franconi and Dupont), broke down in lap 23.
A Lycoming engined Sizaire-Berwick was exhibited at the October 1927 Paris Salon = the end of the French Sizaire-Berwick.
= = = = =
While working in London for Berwick at the beginning of the Twenties, Maurice Sizaire and his loyal draftsmen Voignier and Lapeyre designed the 4 RI (4 roues indépendantes), a 2-litre (76/110 mm – SOHC-head) exhibited under the name Sizaire Frères at the 1923 Paris Salon. The Société des Automobiles Sizaires Frères was founded in 1922, backed by M. Waroquier, an automobile agent from Fourmies, and Paul Dupuy, a newspaper owner (Petit Parisien, Le Miroir des Sports).
A 4 RI driven by Bussienne was second in the 1926 Monte Carlo Rallye.
Willys-Overland bought a licence of the independent suspension.
Production stopped in 1929.
Posted 30 December 2002 - 10:47
Did you ever come across the name Colonel Vericker with respect to the Sizairre-Berwick, by any chance?
Posted 01 January 2003 - 01:37
Originally posted by robert dick
Louis Naudin died in 1913.
He died in 1958.
Posted 01 January 2003 - 09:39
Are you sure that there is no confusion? A few French magazines, published within the last thirty years, wrote that Naudin died in 1913. I have no contemporary report.
I am not sure when Maurice Sizaire died, but this could be 1958.
Posted 26 February 2003 - 19:25
Source: the newspaper L'ÉTOILE BELGE, really into motorsport in the 20's. One of the heads of the newspaper, A. Madoux, took part in the first race at Antwerpen in April 1901, 1 km-sprint, with - i.e- Pierre de Crawhez, A. Joostens, de Spirlet, Mulders de Bagenrieux, Heirman, Xavier & Émile de Beukelaer, Victor Rossel (from the newspaper LE SOIR, the biggest Belgium newspaper, still in 2003), Camille Jenatzy, Fernand Collignon, ...
Posted 27 February 2003 - 18:20
would that be the same man that won Spa - Francorchamps in 1896 and took part in Paris - Bordeaux - Paris (1895) and Paris - Marseille - Paris (1896)?
Originally posted by Marcor
(...) Victor Rossel (...)
Posted 27 February 2003 - 18:41
Le Soir is from Brussels, and the only things I know about the winner of 1896 Spa race are from the Delsaux and Kupelian books. Delsaux says Rossel was from Lille (in France)...