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#51 gdecarli

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 02:15

Thanks to Alexey Rogachev and kos!
Using their two maps I could draw a single map on a Moscow city map:

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1961 map (like this one, but with blue track in foreground) and more info (all taken from this forum!) are on my website.

By the way, it is curious to notice trat this circuit is very close to Vorobyovy Gory (AKA Sparrow Hill) proposed in 1992 and used in 1994 (maps and info on my website as well).

Ciao,
Guido

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#52 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 10:09

Yes, these circuits were situated very close to each other. Vorobievy Gory was a street circuit situated near Moscow University where I study, so I saw a couple of races on it by my own eyes. BTW, the last race at Vorobievy Gory was held in 2001.

#53 gdecarli

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 19:09

Was 2001 layout the same used in 1994 (green on the following map)?

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More detailed map, as usual, on my website.

Ciao
Guido

#54 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 10:24

2gdecarli: Frankly speaking, don't know :rolleyes: I'm trying to find any maps of Luzhniki circiut, but I haven't managed yet.

One question to Rainer Nyberg. It is concerning this picture,

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posted to 'Soviet F1 Pilot' thread a long time ago. What is the marque of this car? Was it a F. Vostok (Easter) car or a F3 car? Who is at the wheel of it?

#55 sat

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 21:21

It seems to be F-Easter Estonia modified by MADI. It must be some of USSR championship races, as by Cup for peace and friendship soviets have numbers off to 70.

#56 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 07:32

According to Rainer's post, this photo was taken in Kiev in 1979. And the car... I'm aware of that one Estonia-19 Lada F. Easter car was modified by Edgard Lindgren of MADI. Unfortunately I don't have its photo, otherwise I can compare the cars in order to determine if it is the same car on this picture.

#57 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 22:10

I will talk to my russian friends about this picture.
I have not seen flicker around here for some time, he might know.

#58 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 08:45

Rainer,

I'd like to get in contact with Flicker very much! He appeared suddenly here for some weeks ago, promising to help me - see his post to this thread - but he hasn't appeared on TNF after this. :cry:

#59 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 10:01

Here are two maps of Vorobievy Gory street cicruit. They've been found and posted to me by Dracula, a member of this forum - all credits to him! :up:

1997 circuit
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2002 circuit:
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#60 quintin cloud

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 11:45

Cool :smoking: :up:

#61 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 12:15

Thanks to Dracula! :D

#62 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 08:17

The map of the 1998 Vorobievy Gory circuit obtained by Dracula:
Posted Image

#63 gdecarli

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 09:47

Great!
It's quite interesting it's the same I have as 1994, while 1997 is slighty different, with the chicane at the top left corner...

Ciao,
Guido

#64 gdecarli

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 23:40

I found a map about one of several proposal for a F.1 GP at Moscow. This one is dated June 1982 and GP should have been raced on July or August 1983. This circuit should have sections in common with both Luzhniki and Vorobyovy Gory circuits.

This is a thumbnail of my map (click to open my page wit a big map, drawn on Moscow citymap):

Posted Image

Do you have some more info?

Ciao,
Guido

#65 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 08:07

Frankly speaking, I've never heard of this utopic street racing project! But I'll try to find something in my collection of magazines and in Russian Internet as well - please wait for some days :)

#66 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 09:27

From 1984 to 1990, there was a Soviet Union championship for 1600 cc cars.
I suppose the cars were similar to formula Mundial (Atlantic) ?

I only know the SU champion of year (title shared, year after year, by Toivo Asmer & Viktor Kozankov, both on Estonia / Lada).
Is a record of the qualifying rounds, with dates & winners, available somewhere ?

#67 Darren Galpin

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 09:48

Jimmy - http://home.wanadoo....oviet/fscc.html.

#68 gdecarli

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 09:49

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Frankly speaking, I've never heard of this utopic street racing project! But I'll try to find something in my collection of magazines and in Russian Internet as well - please wait for some days :)

If you are interested in, I can send you a copy (PDF or JPG) of the original article. Of course it's in Italian.
Original map was drawn on a touristic scheme in perspective (I don't know how to give a better definition), but there are street names and - even if on Autosprint seems quite different - I'm quite sure my map is right (of course according to that article!).
I read somewhere else (but I can't recall where) that in that moment there were at least 3 proposals for a GP in Moscow, but I have no more details.

Ciao,
Guido

#69 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 09:52

Jimmy,

From 1979 to 1988, there were only F. Easter (Vostok) (1300 cc) and F3 (2000 cc) championships. In 1989-91, it was F1600 (F. Mondial?) championship. Its winners were: Viktor Kozankov (?) in 1989, Toivo Asmer in 1990, and Alexandr Potekhin in 1991 (he was driving Estonia-21).

I think there were no sources where the full racing data can be found :( Anyway, I'll perform the research - possibly the top-three drivers of each season are available.

#70 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 09:54

Guido,

Of course I'm interested in getting this article! :wave:

#71 Dracula

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 12:56

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Frankly speaking, I've never heard of this utopic street racing project! But I'll try to find something in my collection of magazines and in Russian Internet as well - please wait for some days :)

Alexey, you can find great article with different maps about all Russian F1 tracks projects in "Formula" magazine (January, 2000).

#72 gdecarli

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 13:30

Dracula or Alexey, if you have it, could you send me a copy (JPG, PDF or similar?)

Thanks

Ciao,
Guido

#73 Dracula

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 15:24

OK, I'll try to scan this article tomorrow.

#74 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 08:49

Originally posted by Dracula

Alexey, you can find great article with different maps about all Russian F1 tracks projects in "Formula" magazine (January, 2000).


Sergey, this article doesn't mention this project - I looked through it yesterday evening, many track projects have been described there, but not the one that Guido is interested in!

#75 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 08:56

Jimmy,

I could find only the names of top-three drivers of the 1989 & 1990 Soviet F. Mondial championships. Here they are:
1989
1. Viktor Kozankov
2. Alexandr Medvedchenko
3. Alexandr Potekhin

1990
1. Toivo Asmer
2. Viktor Kozankov
3. A. Ponomarev

#76 Kvadrat

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 12:19

Some scans from 1975 #11 issue of Soviet motor magazine Za Rul'om.

New built circuit Chayka in Kiev.

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According caption red line is just a first version of the track. This mean developing would be made. But I don't know if it finally was developed.

First race on new circuit was Ukrainian Republican Spartakiada (date and details unknown). First major event was 1 stage os Soviet Championship on July 10-14. Here is racing car race start.

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Next was touring car race.

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The same issue of the magazine has little article on new Estonia 19 which fist raced in Kiev. Enn Griffell led it to Soviet Champion title in 1975.

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Note number 3 red car on the background. It schould be old Estonia 18.

#77 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 07:50

Yes, car #3 really looks like an Estonia-18. Compare it with the following picture:
Posted Image

#78 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 09:22

Originally posted by Kvadrat
new Estonia 19 which fist raced in Kiev.


:rotfl: Yes, a real fist, but not 'an iron fist in a velvet glove', but 'a velvet fist in a iron glove' - really it couldn't be a real rival to German and Czechoslovakian single-seaters :rotfl:

Vladimir, please don't get offended - the slip of your keyboard is very curious, nothing more! :up:

#79 Pavel Lifintsev

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 16:48

Alexey, I've just noticed your query concerning this car:

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I guess Flicker scanned this picture in the February 1995 issue of Avtomotosport magazine. Caption says it was taken in 1979 at Chayka circuit near Kiev and driver is Mark Balezin, 1978 Soviet Formula 3 champion. No reference what car is this, but I'm agree with you – it should be Estonia 19-Lada modified by MADI.

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#80 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 13:08

Many thanks, .ru! I'm going to call Flicker this weekend, so I'll ask him about this photo :)

#81 gdecarli

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 13:37

Originally posted by Dracula
OK, I'll try to scan this article tomorrow.

Thank you very much Dracula :up: .
I answered you via e-mail, but I noticed just now that it was refused by some server. Hovewer, they are OK!
I have just finished to upload first map on my website (click to open my page) : TUSHINO 1964-1965 (proposal)

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As soon as possible I will go on adding all other tracks.
If you (or anybody else who understand Russian) have more info in English :) they are welcome :)

Thank you again!

Ciao,
Guido

#82 gdecarli

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 00:57

I have just added also (click to open my page on my website) :
  • CHEHOV

    Posted Image
  • YAROSLAVL

    Posted Image
Ciao,
Guido

#83 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:42

Guido,

Here is a summary of the article published in 'Formula' magazine in January 2000 - I see that Dracula has sent you the scanned pages of it, although I don't know if he has sent you all its pages or only two as he told me last week.

The first project of a Soviet F1 circuit appeared in 1964-65. It was researched in Moscow Auto and Road Institute (MADI). According to this project, the track should be built on the flood-lands of the Skhodnya river in Moscow. About 100 hectars of them were available to build a circuit, and high 35-metre slopes of the valley were very good as stands. There were more then twenty alternative designs of the circuit proposed, all with the track height from 16 to 20 metres, large boxes area, stands for 150000 spectators, the hotel for 5000 people, restaurants, and the Central Automotoclub building. Naturally, this project turned out to be too expensive, and nobody really wanted to build such a circuit.

Of course you know about Bernie Ecclestone's intention to hold a F1 GP in the USSR in 1983. He visited Moscow and surveyed a number of the places in Moscow that were fit to hold a F1 GP. The circuit project described in the article that you sent me was expected to receive a F1 race in 1983 - there is a following phrase in the article from 'Formula' magazine: "Bernie was really delighted with Leninskie Gory (Lenin Hills). 'What a beautiful, impressing sight, he admired'." Possibly Bernie really expected the DOSAAF officials to prepare the streets near the University for Soviet GP, but they never did - they were against such a great 'ideological diversion' that F1 GP was. So the negative answer was sent to FIA, Leonid Afanasiev (the main person who tried to make Soviet GP a reality) died, and nobody else in DOSAAF was interested in F1.

Meanwhile either in the USSR and in Western Europe many people realized what great profits F1 GP can bring to its organizers. So a number of projects appeared in the late 1980s and early 1990s, researched by Western companies such as Media Sport, Fisso, Giorgio Rossi (at the bottom of page 55 is the map of the circuit at Leninskie Gory that was proposed by Giorgio Rossi). Also Estonian motorsport people tried to get in real contact with FIA in the late 80s, but they were accused in contacting with CIA, and the project was closed down.

The only realizable project was proposed in 1988 by Dorna Management & Service Ltd. from Liechtenstein. Ecclestone was told to be the initiator of the deal, although he didn't directly participate in the negitiations. In October 1988, Antonio Corde, the head of Dorna, had a summit in Moscow with V. Demin and A. Vinnik, the high-ranking DOSAAF officials. In January 1989, Corde proposed the cooperation agreement - it was signed in March. According to this agreement, there were five stages in the involvement of the USSR into the world of Formula 1, namely:

1. Construction of a high-class racing circuit either in Moscow or in Moscow region.
2. Organisation of Soviet GP and making it an annual F1 World Championship race.
3. Training of Soviet racing drivers in order to make them F1 drivers.
4. Foundation of Soviet F1 team.
5. Designing and building Soviet F1 cars.

Note: Italian 'Autosprint' magazine published an article in December 1989 (issue 49) about this project.

According to an agreement, Dorna Ltd. incured all expences of this project, but acquired a right to receive all the profits from it during first 10 years. Naturally, the DOSAAF officials were against it, and very strange things began to occur. First, F1 circuit was told to be built not in Moscow, but in Leningrad. Second, the Soviet delegation that went to Italy was claimed by FAS to be illegal, and FAS itself never performed any further negotiations. Also there were 'green' organisations that were against any construction of the racing circuit in Moscow and so on. Finally, Antonio Corde was obliged to abandon his project.

Then were was a sequence of utopic projects that never had any chances to become a reality - many of them were shady deals. In 1992, the street circuit in the centre of Moscow was proposed by the Italian company Press Link (Bernie was very angry when he became aware of this fraud!) (see the map on page 54 of the scanned article). In 1993, there were two projects proposed, i. e. in Yaroslavl and in Kaliningrad. In 1995, LogoVAZ company claimed it was starting designing and building a circuit at Chekhov, nr Moscow. In 1997, Moscow mayor Yuri Luzhkov ordered to start working at a project of a circuit at Novopodrezkovo, nr Moscow - there were much fuss about it, at least three alternative designs of the circuit were proposed (see page 56, three maps at the bottom of the page). In 1999, a businessman from Middle East claimed that he was going to support a project of F1 circuit in Tula, but it turned out to be a new fraud (I'll ask Dracula to scan a map of Tula circuit - it was published in 'Formula' magazine in January 2000 and in June 1999). There was also a number of other utopic projects that were never put into practice...

#84 Dracula

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 18:57

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Here is a summary of the article published in 'Formula' magazine in January 2000 - I see that Dracula has sent you the scanned pages of it, although I don't know if he has sent you all its pages or only two as he told me last week.

Alexey, thanks for this work! :wave:
I've sent to Guido first two pages of Vladimir Makkaveev's article completely and only maps of next pages of this article.


Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Note: Italian 'Autosprint' magazine published an article in December 1989 (issue 49) about this project.

Guido, do you have this issue?


Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
(I'll ask Dracula to scan a map of Tula circuit - it was published in 'Formula' magazine in January 2000 and in June 1999).

I sent these two maps (one of them isn't from June'99 issue, but from August the same year :) ) to Guido.
Guido, do you need maps of Nagatino (Moscow) and Pulkovo (St. Petersburg) circuits projects?

#85 gdecarli

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 01:33

Thanks to Dracula (who sent me also Tula's map) and to Alexey, I have just uploaded all circuits but Moscow two proposals. I also updated previous description according to Alexey message (click to open my page on my website) :
  • NOVOPODREZKOVO
    Posted Image
  • SHEREMETEVO
    Posted Image
    Posted Image
  • TULA
    Posted Image

What about track description? Are they correct?

Thank you

Ciao,
Guido

#86 Dracula

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 16:42

Originally posted by gdecarli
What about track description? Are they correct?

I think there're correct.

Gudo,

Do you have 'Autosprint' magazine # 49 (December, 1989) with inscription "Effetto Gorbaciov. Adesso anche la Russia avra' dei team di F1" on it cover? What it was about?

Do you need maps of Nagatino and Pulkovo?
Moscow government still planing to built F1 circuit at Molzhaninovo (near Sheremetevo airport). So a new map will appears soon! This project appeared after Renault F1 team demo driving at Vorobovy Gory (Sparrow Hills) in October this year. This is the road track for Trulli and Alonso:
Posted Image
(Picture of Alexey Rogachev)

It's only one real F1 track in Moscow now :(

#87 gdecarli

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 17:53

OK, quick answer before long post about Autosprint...
As regards Nagatino and Pulkovo, I have following maps:Interesting Renault Parade circuit. Was it on the same roads used by some Vorobievy Gory circuit already posted?

Ciao,
Guido

#88 gdecarli

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 18:08

OK, finally I could scan Autosprint article. I'm not a translator, so it would be too difficult for me to perform a complete translation into English.
I think the best solution is to post it in Italian, then, in next message, I will post (in few minutes) an automatic translation made by Google, so even if who can't speak Italian can understand at least the more important items.

From Autosprint 49/1989 pages 4-7

SOVIETICI PRONTI AD ENTRARE NEL CIRCUS

ALLARME ROSSO!

Via al programma per la costituzione di alcuni team che debutteranno nel 1994. La riduzione degli armamenti voluta da Gorbaciov obbliga l'industria bellica a convertirsi. Ecco perché cresce l'interesse per i GP...

MOSCA - Entro il 1994 la Russia avrà un Gran Premio di Formula 1 e parteciperà al campionato mondiale con una sua squadra. Questo è quanto emerso alla conclusione di un viaggio in URSS proprio mentre Gorbaciov, l'uomo della perestrojka, si trovava in Italia. L'occasione per conoscere il mondo sovietico amante della Formula 1 è nata quasi per caso, chiacchierando con amici in uno dei punti più suggestivi di Mosca: l'Hotel Nazionale, una costruzione di fine secolo che ricorda i fasti degli zar. Arredamento sobrio, grandi lampadari e pareti coperte di broccati dai colori giallo ocra al carminio. Fuori, proprio di fronte, uno scorcio della Piazza Rossa, il Cremlino e San Basilio illuminati quasi da farne un mondo da fiaba. Nella hall ci sono tre esponenti della futura formula 1 sovietica, tre personaggi dell'avventura alla quale, fino a poco tempo fa, sembrava impossibile una partecipazione della Russia. "I piloti - racconta Igor Ermilin, la "mente" di questo ambizioso progetto - sono stati sempre definiti dal regime gli "attori della morte". Espressione del capitalismo più sfrenato, gente da guardare con disprezzo, ai quali non si doveva riconoscere alcun merito sportivo». Si trattava di un atteggiamento propagadistico che aveva coinvolto anche il mondo della F.1. È per questo che in Russia lo sport più affascinante dell'auto ha sempre vissuto in bilico fra la propaganda politica negativa e la vera passione degli sportivi russi di anno in anno sempre più interessati.
Una stima della popolarità delle corse è data dalla diffusione delle uniche due riviste specializzate esistenti: Za Rulem (Al volante) con una tiratura bloccata a 4.500.000 copie per mancanza di carta e venduta in abbonamento postale e Moskowski Awtotransportik, che raggiunge il milione di copie. «Data la penuria di giornali - ammette Sugorof, illustratore e giornalista di Za Rulem che da giugno dedica un paio di pagine alla F.1 - si può parlare di otto, dieci lettori a copia, vale a dire un bacino potenziale di appassionati variabile dai 45 ai 60 milioni di tifosi». La cifra è enorme, non si può rimanere che a bocca aperta. Eppure altri interlocutori avvalorano quei conti. Il ghiaccio è rotto anche se fuori il termometro segna -5: la conversazione scivola in russo senza intoppi grazie alle traduzione simultanea di un giornalista della agenzia di stampa sovietica Tass. Sono tutti riuniti per festeggiare il primo anno di vita della Apex: «Si tratta della cooperativa fondata qui a Mosca lo scorso novembre e che ci porterà nel 1994 a correre il mondiale di Formula 1 con una monoposto tutta russa». Igor Ermilin, il tecnico che sta seguendo il progetto, si illumina parlando del grande cambiamento in Russia: «L'idea di creare l'Apex (che in latino vuoi dire vertice) si è concretizzata grazie alla Perestrojka di Gorbaciov. Gli "attori della morte" come erano definiti i piloti si sono d'incanto trasformati in protagonisti di un mondo affascinante che esalta tecnica e spettacolo. È grazie a questa apertura che quindici tecnici, fino a ieri impegnati nello studio e nella messa a punto di vetture della F. Mondial, hanno potuto unire la loro comune passione per creare una cooperativa, la Apex appunto». La legge sovietica prevede un garante per ogni cooperativa che sia un ente o un azienda di stato. «Abbiamo proposto la nostra idea alla Skorost e tutti si sono rivelati entusiasti: lo scorso 16 novembre 1988 è così nata l'Apex». La Skorost è un'azienda altamente specializzata che produce aerei a medio raggio come gli Jak e aerei militari a decollo verticale come gli Jak 38. Si tratta di una ditta che collaborerà al progetto di Formula 1. «Costruire una F.1 richiede l'impiego di tecnologie molto sofisticate - ci spiega Ermilin - era da tempo che ci siamo resi conto che la Russia stava cambiando rapidamente: i tagli alle spese militari, la revisione di alcuni piani speciali hanno portato le aziende ad alto livello tecnologico a cercare una diversificazione produttiva, come le applicazioni civili al loro elevatissimo livello tecnologico. La Formula 1, quindi, si pone come passo intermedio per l'applicazione civile delle più esasperate esperienze missilistiche e spaziali». Si tratta, quindi, di una vera e propria sfida alla tecnologia dell'occidente che si trasferisce dallo spazio agli autodromi della Formula 1. A tal proposito si è costituita l'Aspas (associazione produttori sovietici di auto sportive) di cui è presidente lo stesso Ermilin. «All'Aspas hanno aderito finora una decina di società fra costruttori di vetture di serie, cooperative come la Apex e costruttori di auto da competizione. A questo gruppo si sono poi aggiunte aziende missilistiche e belliche nell'intento di affermare il loro marchio in un attività diversificata, prevedendo il grande boom automobilistico. Del pool fa parte la Poliron, che si occupa di laser e che dispone di ingenti appoggi finanziari. La stessa Apex, facendo parte del gruppo della Aspas, ha libero accesso alle tecnologie più sofisticate, per cui può provvedere autonomamente alla realizzazione di una F.1 tutta russa». L'idea di Ermilin piace tant'è che si ventila la possibilità di vedere più di una squadra tutta russa nel mondiale F.1 del '94. I diversi team attingeranno le tecnologie speciali alla Aspas. Le fonti per il reperimento di materiali ad alto livello tecnologico saranno quindi le stesse, ma questo non deve sorprendere visto che anche in Occidente per alcuni particolari molto specifici i team si rivolgono quasi tutti allo stesso fornitore. «Al momento attuale la Apex si finanzia costruendo parti della F.Mondiale - ammette Ermilin -. Ci aspettiamo molto dal varo del nuovo programma di sviluppo degli sport motoristici attualmente al vaglio del Ministero dello Sport. Riteniamo che sarà presentato a Mosca in occasione del salone che si effettuerà nella Capitale nel mese di febbraio». Seguendo gli indirizzi europei Ermilin si scrolla di dosso tutti i dubbi e si lancia: «Cerchiamo sponsor per il programma russo in F.1. Non abbiamo preclusioni di sorta per gli Occidentali. Chiunque voglia darci una mano è benvenuto». A sentirlo parlare sembra di avere a che fare con un qualsiasi team manager di Circus. Gli addetti dell'operazione Urss in F.1 comunque contano molto sull'appoggio che saprà dare anche il Governo. Per arrivare al '94 con tutti i quadri perfettamente competitivi si sta varando un programma di preparazione di piloti, tecnici, meccanici. Si tratta di un lavoro lungo che darà i suoi frutti nel tempo. Si comincerà facendo correre nell'italiano di Formula 3 due russi: Victor Kasankov e Otty Vanaseliya disporranno di una Dallara. «Sono i due giovani che aprono la via - aggiunge Ermilin - saranno i nostri paladini in Europa. Nel '91 saranno imitati da altri conduttori, tant'è che daremo vita a una serie di team sovietici della terza serie. Nel '92 faremo un salto di categoria approdando con due monoposto alla F.3000. Contiamo cosi di arrivare al '93 con uno staff molto preparato in grado di iniziare a lavorare concretamente alla preparazione di un programma di F.1 che vedrà la luce solo nel '94. L'impegno nella progettazione della monoposto è già partito: ci stiamo occupando dell'aerodinamica e dello sterzo, per poi passare a tutte le altre componenti». Insomma in Russia hanno le idee quanto mai chiare. Gli obiettivi sono stati fissati. E non ci sarà da sorprendersi più di tanto se al posto della falce e martello si vedranno sulle carrozzerie delle monoposto i marchi di multinazionali. Il mondo cambia proprio freneticamente...

GRAN PREMIO CONTESO FRA QUATTRO CITTÀ

MOSCA - L'impegno dei russi non è finalizzato solo alla realizzazione di squadre che sappiano diventare vincenti nel Circus della Formula 1. L'obiettivo dei sovietici è di arrivare in tempi ragionevoli a organizzare un Gran Premio. Allo stato attuale delle cose sono state quattro le città che si sono candidate per ospitare l'avvenimento motoristico: sono Tallinn (capitale dell'Estonia), Leningrado, Mosca e Alma-Ata (capitale del Kazakhistan, nell'Asia centrale). Stando alle informazioni pubblicate su Hoskoski Transportnik in un pezzo dedicato alla Formula 1 si dice che la città destinata a ospitare il Gp sia Mosca. Lo stesso Bernie Ecclestone, presidente della Foca e vicepresidente della Fisa, avvalla questa ipotesi, ritenendo la Capitale sovietica la località più adatta per aprire le porte dell'Urss all'automobilismo occidentale. All'Est sono in molti a considerare il Gp d'Ungheria una sorta di prova generale in vista del Gp di Russia. Tomash Rohani, un sovietico che collabora all'organizzazione del Gp del Brasile, non ha dubbi: «Il Gp dell'Hungaroring serve da laboratorio per l'Urss che sperimenta così tutto quello di nuovo che emerge dall'Occidente. È successo per i jeans e succede anche per la Formula 1». Non è un mistero per nessuno che emissari della Fisa siano già stati più volte in Russia per cercare il luogo adatto dove dare vita a un tracciato in grado di ospitare un Gp. Nell'intenzione dei vertici federali, infatti, c'è la voglia di allargare le frontiere del Circus. La Dorna, società del Liechtestein, nell'ambito di un protocollo di intenti con il gruppo di lavoro della Dosaaf (associazione volontaria per l'assistenza all'esercito, all'aeronautica e alla marina) ha progetto per la realizzazione di un tracciato a Tushino, nella periferia Nord Ovest di Mosca.


INTANTO ERMILIN STA PREPARANDO UN PROTOTIPO PER I RAID
ALLA PARIGI-DAKAR NEL '91


In attesa che il progetto di F.1 si concretizzi, in Urss non hanno perso tempo: hanno realizzato una vetiura prototipo (nella foto) destinata alla Parigi-Dakar che si disputerà nel 1991. Ideatore del programma il solito Igor Ermilin che si è affidato alla Madi per la realizzazione della vettura, una delle aziende affiliate alla Aspes. Si tratta di una macchina che presenta interessanti soluzioni tecniche anche se si deve ancora lavorare sul peso troppo elevato. Trazione a quattro ruote motrici, con motore da 1600 cc sovralimentato: i russi si preparano per essere protagonisti anche nel deserto...

FOTO (click to enlarge)

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I cinque russi che hanno effettuato un test di F.3 a Imola: sono Kezankov, Pyld, Vanaselj, Kijsa e Ionushis (Oliver)


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La F.3 della Apex realizzata da Ermilin, il tecnico che sta progettando la F.1 russa

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Igor Ermillin

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Prototipo per la Parigi Dakar

Ciao,
Guido

#89 gdecarli

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 19:19

OK; here there is English rough translation :)

From Autosprint 49/1989 pages 4-7

SOVIETS READY TO ENTER IN THE CIRCUS

RED ALARM!

Start to the program for the constitution of some teams that will debut in 1994. The reduction of the armaments wanted from Gorbaciov obligates the war industry to be converted. That's why the interest for the GP grows...


MOSCOW - Within 1994 Russia will have a Formula 1 Great Prix and it will participate to the world championship with one team. This is emerged at the conclusion of a travel in USSR just while Gorbaciov, the man of the perestrojka, was in Italy. The occasion in order to know Soviet world of Formula 1 fans is been happened nearly for case, chatting with friends in one of the points more evocative in Moscow: the National Hotel, a construction of end of last century that remembers you zar age. Sober furnishing, great lights and walls covered of broccati (?) yellow ocher and red colored. Outside, just of forehead, a end of the Red Square, the Kremlin and San Basilio illuminates like in a story. In the hall there are three exponents of future Soviet formula 1, three personages of the adventure to which, until few time ago, it seemed impossible a Russia presence. "Pilots - Igor Ermilin tells, the "mind" of this ambitious plan - have been always defined from the regimen the "actors of the death". Expression of more unbridled Capitalism, people to be watched with depreciation, to which any sport merit did not have to be recognized". It was a propagadistic attitude that involved also F.1 world. For this reason in Russia the more fascinating car racing sport was always between negative political propaganda and the true passion of the Russian sportsmen year after year more and more interested. An esteem of racing popularity is given by the spread of the only existing specialistic magazines: Za Rulem with no more than 4,500,000 copies (for lack of paper) and sold in subscription mails and Moskowski Awtotransportik, that catches up one million copies. "Due to magazines lack - Sugorof admits, illustrator and journalist of Za Rulem that from June dedicates a couple of pages to the F.l - there are about eight, ten readers for each copy, that means a potential total variable from the 45 to 60 million tifosi". The figure is enormous, cannot be surprised. Nevertheless other interlocutors confirm those numbers. The ice is broken even if outside the thermometer marks -5°C: the conversation slips in Russian without difficulties thanks to the simultaneous translation of a journalist of Tass, Soviet agency of press. They are all together for celebrating the first year of the Apex: "it's a cooperative founded here in Moscow last November and that it will carry to us in 1994 to run Formula 1 world championship with one single-seater completely Russian". Igor Ermilin, the technician who is working at this plan, illuminates itself while speaking about the great change in Russia: "the idea to create the Apex (in Latin means apex) was realized thanks to the Gorbaciov's Perestrojka. The "actors of the death", as the pilots were called, are transformed now into protagonists of a fascinating world that exalts technique and show. Thanks to this opening, fifteen technicians, that until yesterday were working on F. Mondial cars, have been able to join their common passion in order to create one cooperative, the Apex itself. Soviet law wants a guarantor for every cooperative that is an agency or a company of state. "We proposed our idea to the Skorost and they were enthusiastic: last 16 November 1988 therefore Apex was created". Skorost is a company highly specialized that produces medium range airplanes as the Jak and vertical takeoff military airplane like Jak 38. It's a company that will cooperate to Formula 1 project. "Manufacturing a F.1 needs sophisticated technologies - Ermilin explains us - for time we are realized that Russia was changing quickly: cuts to military expenses, review of some special plans carried high technological level companies to try to diversify their production, like civil applications to their highest technological level. Formula 1, therefore, is placed as intermediate step for civil application of the most exasperated missile and spatial experiences ". Therefore, it's a true challenge to western technology that is moved from the space to the Formula 1 circuits. For this reason Aspas has been created (Association Soviet producers of sport car); its president is Ermilin himself. "Aspas was joined by approx ten society among constructors of cars, cooperatives like the Apex and constructors of racing car. Then missile and war industries added to this group in the order to make know their brand in a diversified activity, foreseeing a great car boom. In this pool there is also Poliron, that deals with laser and that it has huge backings. Apex itself, being inside Aspas, has free access to the more sophisticated technologies, so it can manufacture independently a completely Russian F.l car". Ermilin's idea appeals is so high that there is a possibility to see more than one Russian team in 1994 F.l championship. All teams will reach special technologies to Aspas. Sources for finding high tech materials will be the same one, but this is not strange as it happens the same in the West: for some specific particulars team bought nearly all from the same supplier. "For the moment Apex is financed by manufacturing parts of the F.Mondial - Ermilin tells. We expect much from new development program of the racing sports that now is under Ministry of Sport examination. We think that it will be introduced in Moscow during Exhibition that will be held in Moscow next February". Following the European habits, Ermilin has no doubts and tells: "We look for sponsors for F.1 Russian program. We do not have problem about Western people. Anyone who wants help us is welcome". While listening him speaking, it seems to deal with whichever Circus team manager. The attache's of Ussr operation in F.l however expect much on support that Government will provide. For having in 1994 all things done, a preparation program for pilots, technicians and mechanics is being launched. It's a long job that will be appreciated after a long period. It will begun by making run two Russians in Italian Formula 3 chanpionship: Victor Kasankov and Otty Vanaseliya will drive one Dallara. "They are the two young people that open the way - Ermilin tells - and they will be our champions in Europe. In 1991 they will be followed by other drivers, so we will have a Soviet team in Formula 3. In 1992 we will jump category and we we will have two single-seater in F.3000. In such a way we should have in 1993 a staff ready to begin to work concretely for preparing a F.1 program that will produce a car in 1994. The program in single-seater planning is already operative: we are dealing with aerodynamics and steering, then we will works on all the others components". In Russia they are very strong minded. Targets have been decided. And no surprise if they will replace scythe and hammer on the car bodies with marks of multinationals. The world changes quickly...

GP CONTENDED BETWEEN FOUR TOWNS

Moscow - Russians doesn't want only to realize teams for winning in Formula 1 circus. Soviets target is to succeed in reasonable times to organize a GP. For the moment there are four towns candidates for hosting a car raing event: they are Tallinn (Estonia capital), Leningrad, Moscow and Alma-Ata (Kazakhistan capital, in central Asia). According to information published on Hoskoski Transportnik in an article dedicated to Formula 1, city that will host GP is Moscow. The same Bernie Ecclestone, president of FOCA and vice president FISA, confrm this hypothesis, thinking that Soviet capital is suitable to open USSR doors to western car racing. In the East many people consider Hungary GP one general test for Russian GP. Tomash Rohani, a Soviet that collaborates for organize Brasil GP, have no doubts: "Hungaroring GP is a laboratory for USSR that experiences therefore all news that comes from the West. It happened for jeans and it happens also for Formula 1". It is not a mystery for that FISA emissaries have already been several times in Russia in order to look for the place suitable where build a track suitable for F.1. According to federal desider, there is a wish for increasing frontiers of Circus. Dorna, a society form Liechtestein, inside a protocol with Dosaaf workgroup (voluntary association for the attendance to the army, the aeronautics and navy), has plan for the realization of a circuit in Tushino, in the North West Moscow suburbs.

MEANWHILE ERMILIN IS PREPARING A PROTOTYPE FOR RAID
PARIS-DAKAR IN 1991


While waiting that F.l plan is realized, in USSR has not waste time: they have realized one prototype car (see photos) that will be used in 1991 Paris-Dakar. This program is carried on by Igor Ermilin, that asked to Madi for car manufacturing, one Aspes factory. It's a car that has interesting technical features even if they still have to work on too hight weight. Four wheel drive, a turbo charged 1600cc engine: Russians are preparing for being protagonist even in the desert...

PHOTOS (click to enlarge)

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Five Russians that tested F.3 at Imola: Kezankov, Pyld, Vanaselj, Kijsa e Ionushis (Oliver)


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Apex F.3 realized by Ermilin, technician that is working on Russian F.1

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Igor Ermillin

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Parigi Dakar prototype

Ciao,
Guido

#90 Dracula

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 17:55

Guido,

Many thanks for this Autosprint article! :up:

Originally posted by gdecarli
Interesting Renault Parade circuit. Was it on the same roads used by some Vorobievy Gory circuit already posted?


Russian championship races was held at the same place, but I think for Renault Parade was used slightly different route. I think it used only a part of back straight of racing track variant.

#91 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 10:17

Originally posted by gdecarli
Interesting Renault Parade circuit. Was it on the same roads used by some Vorobievy Gory circuit already posted?


Yes, this is the part of former Vorobioevy Gory street circuit. The picture of Renault Parade track published here by Dracula was taken by my own. I also have a couple of other photos of the same territory taken from 28th floor of the University buliding in order to transform them into an orthogonal photo map - this is my under-graduate thesis topic. If you want, I'll post them to you.

#92 Dracula

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 13:40

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
The picture of Renault Parade track published here by Dracula was taken by my own.


Of course, Alexey! I wrote about this below your photo. :)

#93 gdecarli

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 22:04

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
I also have a couple of other photos of the same territory taken from 28th floor of the University buliding in order to transform them into an orthogonal photo map - this is my under-graduate thesis topic. If you want, I'll post them to you.

This seems to be interesting: do you trasnform standard photo into ortho photo? (I know I should explain better, but I don't know technical terms).
However, your photos could be interesting!

Ciao,
Guido

#94 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 11:30

Originally posted by Dracula


Of course, Alexey! I wrote about this below your photo. :)


Sergey, I only wanted to say that I can take a number of extra photos of the territory, nothing more! I do not worry about my copyright! :lol:

This seems to be interesting: do you trasnform standard photo into ortho photo?



Yes, this is precisely what I try to do (using two programs, i. e. ERDAS Imagine and TransView). But a perspective view of all the territory of Vorobievy Gory cannot be taken - too much trees, they hide streets :(

#95 Flicker

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 19:27

For gdecarli... :D

Latest Luzhniki configuration...

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Used October 4th during... 6th hours race named "GP Moscow" :cool:

Winners: Vincenzo Sospiri/Andrea Agostinone - VW Polo - 247 laps
2nd and 3rd finishers were lap behind.

#96 gdecarli

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Posted 12 November 2003 - 00:04

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Yes, this is precisely what I try to do (using two programs, i. e. ERDAS Imagine and TransView). But a perspective view of all the territory of Vorobievy Gory cannot be taken - too much trees, they hide streets :(

That's very interesting. I would like to be able to manipulate perspective views, but I'm not able and I think it's not so easy.

I wish I take orthophoto on my own, but my bike doesn't fly yet (maybe after some tuning... :)), neither my Fiat Uno, so I think my only opportunity comes from websites like AtlanteItaliano :)

Originally posted by Flicker
For gdecarli... :D

Latest Luzhniki configuration...

Thank you very much, I have just added to my page a link to your post.
So this means that in 2003 two different track layout were used at Luzhniki? One shorter, used last June (see map posted by Kos last June 30th) and the one posted by you.
Is it correct?

Thank you again

Ciao,
Guido

#97 gdecarli

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Posted 12 November 2003 - 02:10

Originally posted by gdecarli
Thanks to Dracula (who sent me also Tula's map) and to Alexey, I have just uploaded all circuits but Moscow two proposals.

I have just uploaded one proposal. Now I miss only one to finish circuits that Dracula sent me. As usual, click to open my page:
  • MOSCOW KREMLIN 1992
    Posted Image
Ciao,
Guido

#98 Flicker

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Posted 12 November 2003 - 08:22

Originally posted by gdecarli
So this means that in 2003 two different track layout were used at Luzhniki? One shorter, used last June (see map posted by Kos last June 30th) and the one posted by you.


Absolutely right! :D

And in the first & second cases the organizers were the same!

#99 gdecarli

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Posted 14 November 2003 - 02:26

Thank you very much, Flicker. I will add to my page as soon as possible.

Meanwhile I have just updated my Vorobyovy Gory page, by adding all layouts. This is a sample (click to open my page with all maps), with all layouts together on the same map. Of course on my page I have also a map for each layout.

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Is it correct? Do I forget anything?

Thank you!

Ciao,
Guido

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#100 Figurino

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 07:10

Alexey et al:
First - I'm wondering why all these numerous people have not asked for solutions to their innumerious questions from the man who was present with Soviet racing all these decades as a journalist, author and also auto sport official - Lew M. Shuguroff. He is able to indentify all the cars, drivers etc. And answer most questions you can only think about. Please try to involve the Grand Old Man of the soviet automobiliana!
Second - The soviet GP venue's history in eighties goes like this (I was personally involved with the OICA and later on with the Tallinnring project)
After DOSAAF torpedoed the soviets' chance to come out partly from deep isolation (remember Olympic games boycot? ) and join the USSR with the outer world at least through F1, FOCA sent a letter to Estonian Deputy Prime Minister Arnold Green on 18th October 1982 with a proposal to run the USSR's GP at the seat of the circuit racing of the USSR - 6 km long Pirita-Kose-Kloostrimetsa where the first event was held back in 1933 already, and under the soviet regime again from 1947.
Estonian auto people were eager to take that chance, and the huge responsibility. The course, partly resembling Monaco and partly Spa, was to be reconstructed (at OICA's expence), two bridges totally rebuilt, perhaps one hilly section levelled, thousands of trees taken down...
Estonian greens were, essentially, against. But at that time they were comparatively weak and totally helpless, if the political decision was made (in Moscow, of course). We really tried hard to convince DOSAAF's Generals about the positive side of new to them idea. Finally - I sent a longish telegram to the propaganda secretary of the Politicial Bureau in Moscow, assucing DOSAAF of sabotaging the country's interests. During Lavrenti Beria (secret service chief of the Stalin era) days that would have cost my life. In this case I lost only my position as a member of the Estonian Auto Sport Federation...
Tallinnring. Tallinn's racing circuit's financing (7 million roubles) decision was made in Moscow in November, 1985, but pro and contra fights (again greens were involved, but more forcefully this time) lasted up to March 1989 (!) and the decision to spend 7,14 million roubles on a properly built Tallinnring (consisting a bridge due to site area/porper length considerations) was finally made. And
an organization named Tallinnring was born within two months time. Later on we saw scrapers and trucks working busily and the circuit starting to take shape. I photographed the process in several cases - for history. But the project as such became history sooner than expected. Weird times approached fast, finacing dried up, greens became more powerful than ever... Even these days some parts of the proposed circuit can be located rather easily. Sad memories, I must say.
Thanks to Pirita project flop Hungary got the commie block's lone GP instead of the USSR. I'm sure as ever that the USSR was the right place instead of Hungary. Not logistically perhaps, but in the interest of advancing automobile and auto sport knowledge in Russia and the satellites. Maybe some soviet politicians understood the mistake, but by then it was too late...