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The 'baddest' car ever built?


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#1 indycarjunkie

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 02:52

I've always thought the '67 Shelby GT Cobra was the baddest sports car ever built. Can anyone (Don?) tell me if Don Capps ever wrote a Rear View Mirror article on Carroll Shelby's entry into the sport car racing world and his creation of a classic race car? Also, I was wondering if there were any RVM archive articles floating about in Atlas. I've been looking but can't seem to find any.

Thanks.

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#2 Bruce Moxon

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 07:22

" 'Baddest' car?"

Whaddabout that Camaro Penske built for Mark Donohue? The blue one that they were asked to Take Away And Never Bring Back.

Or the Porsche 917/10? Kremer 935? The last of the Audi Quattro rally cars, the Peugeot 205 Group B car, the 405 they ran at Pike's Peak, Nobihiru Tajima's twin-engine Suzuki at the same event.

Compared with many home-built specials and Australian Sports Sedans and the like, the Cobra is the epitome of refined, classy motoring.


Bruce Moxon

#3 Yves

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 08:51

Originally posted by Bruce Moxon
" 'Baddest' car?"

the 405 they ran at Pike's Peak,


I also remember of a Citroën BX four wheels drive plus turbo in Rallye in the same period : it never finished any race due to its oleo-pneumatic suspension...

Y.

#4 Spamula One

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 09:40

EVO VI Lancer Tommi Makinen edition
Lancia Deltas
Lola-MG EX257
Bentley EXP speed8

in no particular order.

Oh yeah... and the Lotus Europa.;)

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 11:39

If it's a contest about what constitutes the 'baddest' ever...

John Scott's Milano Zephyr is somewhere near the top of the list.

#6 Yves

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 11:58

Originally posted by Spamula One

Oh yeah... and the Lotus Europa.;)


Oh no, such a beautiful car :eek:

Y.

#7 dretceterini

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 13:17

Alfa Romeo 412 sport. Basically, an 8c2900A with a 12c37 grand prix car motor.

#8 f li

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 13:47

What about the stretched Rolls with the Rolls' Merlin V12 that was seen at the London Motor Show? --- Yes, it really was a road car!

#9 Mark Beckman

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 14:52

Gotta say that the suburb of Dandenong which is 1 hour East of Melbourne Australia generally has the "baddest" street cars anywhere in the world and its nothing to see something like a Mk1 Cortina with a Chev 454 cubic inch motor with supercharger that will run 9 second 1/4 miles, registered and driving around on a Friday night.

But back to more real cars that were actually produced, I think the 6 wheel Panther was "bad" not to mention Vectors, RUF Porsches and even Nissan Skyline RB34's arent to be taken lightly at traffic lights either.

But I think (because of the sound alone!) an Audi Quattro Sport S4 would be the "baddest" car built so far with a manufactures badge on it.

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 18:59

Originally posted by dretceterini
Alfa Romeo 412 sport. Basically, an 8c2900A with a 12c37 grand prix car motor.


Oh get me one of those...

...and where is that Mille Miglia course?

#11 rdrcr

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 19:12

BAD....

Posted Image

402 cid each, 4 wheel drive, the runs were filled with tire smoke from all four tires, start to finish!

http://www.draglist....-2000/Tommy Ivo


It's all relative.

... most of the "Tuner" cars currently being produced today are pretty "bad" 600+ hp, 600+ lbs torque, sub 4 second runs to 60 mph, sub 5's to 100, 200+ mph top speed and stop on a dime.

Hell it's only money, how fast do you want to go?

#12 bobbo

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 20:07

Well, in my narrowminded (Old Fart's perogative ;) ;) ) opinion, I think that the"baddest" car was an A. C. Bristol that some ol' Texas chicken farmer stuffed a small block Ford V8 into. Wha was his name? Colby? Dolby, Shelly? Something like that. . . Oh yeah. Shelby. Carroll Shelby.

Heard he made some great chili, too. :up:

Seriously, though, I guess that, for me, "baddest" is a pretty personal thing, with lots of emotional content.

What are some of your other favorite "baddest" cars?

Great theaed idea, indycarjunkie!

Bobbo

#13 indycarjunkie

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 14:13

I might be confusing the '67 Cobra with the '65 Cobra. I'm not sure. The car I'm thinking of was put together at the last minute to compete in the enduro sport car races that year and kicked ass with wins at Daytona & Le Mans.

#14 Don Capps

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 15:44

ICJ,

Here is something that I did jot down concerning the Cobra:

http://www.atlasf1.c...iew/mirror.html

Perhaps you were thinking of the Daytona Coupes that Shelby's Pete Brock devised for the 1964 and 1965 seasons....

#15 indycarjunkie

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 17:15

Originally posted by Don Capps
ICJ,

Here is something that I did jot down concerning the Cobra:

http://www.atlasf1.c...iew/mirror.html

Perhaps you were thinking of the Daytona Coupes that Shelby's Pete Brock devised for the 1964 and 1965 seasons....


Thanks Don! That's exactly what I was looking for. You are quite right. I did have in mind the Daytona Coupes. I kinda wish Ford would produce a modern version of the Daytona Coupe. Not that I could afford it if they did though.

#16 mmmcurry

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 20:47

The Espace F1 what quite impressive.

Steve.

#17 RedFever

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 18:35

Lancia Stratos

#18 René de Boer

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 19:13

Originally posted by Yves


I also remember of a Citroën BX four wheels drive plus turbo in Rallye in the same period : it never finished any race due to its oleo-pneumatic suspension...

Y.


The car was ugly indeed, but as a Citroën-fan, I must correct this one. The BX 4TC even scored world championship points: it finished sixth in the Sweden Rally with Jean-Claude Andruet and Annick Peuvergne, the same Annick Peuvergne who is now looking after media relations for Peugeot in the WRC and doesn't like to be reminded too often of her exploits with the BX 4TC. For the rest, the project to go world championship rallying on a limited budget proved to be a disaster.

#19 petefenelon

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Posted 28 December 2002 - 14:19

Originally posted by indycarjunkie
I've always thought the '67 Shelby GT Cobra was the baddest sports car ever built. Can anyone (Don?) tell me if Don Capps ever wrote a Rear View Mirror article on Carroll Shelby's entry into the sport car racing world and his creation of a classic race car? Also, I was wondering if there were any RVM archive articles floating about in Atlas. I've been looking but can't seem to find any.

Thanks.


I think the Cheetah is "more badder" :) than the Cobra. In fact, I think it's the baddest looking thing around.
http://www.cheetahra...he_cheetah.html

pete

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#20 David Beard

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Posted 28 December 2002 - 14:50

I suppose it depends on your definition of bad....but this is definitely my baddest car...in fact it's me driving it. If anyone can identify the thing I will be absolutely flabbergasted.

Posted Image

#21 oldtimer

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Posted 28 December 2002 - 22:22

It's not a W125. Which didn't look as though it was bad. Till you touched the throttle. :)

#22 Lotus23

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Posted 28 December 2002 - 22:37

David Beard, I have no idea what it is you're piloting there, but I'll wager you were wearing a younger man's clothes at the time! Was there more than one of them built?

Re: baddest car. Somewhere I've still got Bill Cosby's "200 MPH" LP in which he hilariously describes the sheer terror of driving one of Monsieur Shelby's hairier beasts.

Some of the early Gassers of NHRA drag racing would also fall into this category. Was it Wild Willie Borsch who'd steer one of these lurching, lunging beasts with one hand while hanging onto the roll bar with the other?

#23 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 28 December 2002 - 22:41

Originally posted by David Beard
I suppose it depends on your definition of bad....but this is definitely my baddest car...in fact it's me driving it. If anyone can identify the thing I will be absolutely flabbergasted.

Posted Image



It looks to me like a Marcos although the body appears to be modified.

#24 Bladrian

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 06:07

Originally posted by Lotus23
Some of the early Gassers of NHRA drag racing would also fall into this category. Was it Wild Willie Borsch who'd steer one of these lurching, lunging beasts with one hand while hanging onto the roll bar with the other?


The Gassers were okay, but for BAAAD you'd have to go some to beat the Fuel Altereds - 'Pure Hell' springs to mind as one of the scariest things a reasonably sane human being could possibly drive ..... :lol:

#25 Doug Nye

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 14:56

David - in your chopped about Diva-ish Gran Turismo was there tarmac - or grass - underneath the bit you were driving???? In any case, tha's a braver man than me, lad...

DCN

PS - By the way - please forgive my ignorance of colonial jargon - but what is the definition of this strange word 'baddest'???? :confused:

#26 David Beard

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 15:59

Originally posted by Lotus23
David Beard, I have no idea what it is you're piloting there, but I'll wager you were wearing a younger man's clothes at the time! Was there more than one of them built?


Still have some of the clothes, but they seem to have shrunk badly. I am only aware of one being built, fortunately.

And it's not a Marcos or a Diva, or even a distant relation, unfortunately.

I was driving on grass, in a one off autocross. The contraption modified itself as it went along.

Sorry I posted the photo...there is NO way anyone will identify it. :lol:

#27 Bladrian

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 16:00

Originally posted by Doug Nye
PS - By the way - please forgive my ignorance of colonial jargon - but what is the definition of this strange word 'baddest'???? :confused:


erm - lemme have a go.

baddest = worsest = scaringest = most greatliest.

:rotfl:

#28 paulb

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 22:51

Originally posted by David Beard


Still have some of the clothes, but they seem to have shrunk badly. I am only aware of one being built, fortunately.

And it's not a Marcos or a Diva, or even a distant relation, unfortunately.

I was driving on grass, in a one off autocross. The contraption modified itself as it went along.

Sorry I posted the photo...there is NO way anyone will identify it. :lol:

Sooooooo, what is it?

#29 indycarjunkie

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 02:37

Originally posted by Doug Nye

PS - By the way - please forgive my ignorance of colonial jargon - but what is the definition of this strange word 'baddest'???? :confused:


:lol: Leave it to Americans to butcher the english language. No wonder the French hate us. The term "Bad" in certain context means good, and "baddest" in the same context would mean best.  ;)

"Bad" might also imply tough or mean. Such as "That cat Shaft is one BAD muthuh...."

You dig?  ;)

#30 Flying Panda

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 03:21

Originally posted by Lotus23
Re: baddest car. Somewhere I've still got Bill Cosby's "200 MPH" LP in which he hilariously describes the sheer terror of driving one of Monsieur Shelby's hairier beasts.

:lol: He didnt drive the Shelby.......

the car took him for a ride :D

#31 Mark Beckman

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 07:54

Ok since David has shown his own car I'll tell you about one of mine.

Datsun 1000 Coupe (1969) that was my second (legal road) car that I decided to insert a Mazda 12A bridgeport rotary into (around 200 hp).

Those who know Mazda rotary's know that the crank centerline is very high, rather than low in the block as is a typical piston engine.

So to fit it, out came the gearbox tunnel up to the firewall which left me with an exposed gearbox sitting next to me, a rather large hole with the asphalt in full veiw.

But heres the best part, for a while I drove this daily to work and back (as well as weekends) on 12" conventional tyres, standard suspension and 8" drum brakes all round till I had the money to start on those area's.

Ahhh to be 18 again :rotfl:

#32 Lipp

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 09:53

It must be a Honda S800 coupé with the famous high revving 800cc engine (a motorcycle chain driving the back wheels) What do I win???? :p ;) :clap:


BTW: I own a Accord Sedan of 1977, with only 55.000km on the meter! technically an oldtimer now!
Posted Image Mine has the same green metalic color but with four doors and a trunk (not the hatchback model), and the mirrors are fitted to the door

#33 David Beard

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 10:15

Originally posted by paulb
Sooooooo, what is it?


I was but a teenager…I bought the vehicle from an RAF type near Oxford. I was looking for something with which to take up autocross…the machine was obviously unsuitable but I was strangely fascinated. The seller was a chap name Peter Worrall – I didn’t get to the bottom of how much of the beast was his doing, but it had no name so we christened it the “Worrible”.

It had a poorly designed space frame chassis : it didn’t really deserve that description as it had virtually no triangulation. It did, however, have a pair of 2 inch box section lower chassis rails which I fondly imagined might have indicated some sort of 750 MC origin….such tubes were a feature if the rules after Austin chassis were no longer compulsory, I seem to remember. It had a BMC A series engine, transmission and rear axle. The latter was suspended on rather floppy quarter elliptics, and wonder of wonders, located transversely by a Watts linkage. The double wishbone front suspension lost the plot by having equal length wishbones : no evidence of knowledge of any geometry subtleties.

The bodywork was a hotch potch of aluminium and glass fibre. The bonnet seemed to have cut and shut from one of those Ford E93A specials that used to litter Britain in the fifties - from one called a Falcon, I thought. Entertainingly, there were gull wing doors, and most bizarrely, the windscreen was the rear window from a Renault Dauphine! The only elegant part of the device was the wiring harness :it was bound together aircraft style in a way which impressed me but which I now find impossible to describe.

The engine was only an early 803cc one: the fact that it had twin carbs did not do enough to excite me. An advert in Motoring News took me to a “full race” 1000cc motor, allegedly built by someone who had worked at BMC Special Tuning at Abingdon. Strangely, it had no flywheel. It turned out that the little screamer had been used to power a grass track sidecar outfit, driving through a Sunbeam transmission. (that’s the Sunbeam motorcycle, if any of you can recall those) Anyway, it seemed to have all the right bits....12G295 head, Cooper S rockers and dizzy, duplex timing gear, 649 full race cam, twin inch & a half SUs . ( I knew about all this …I was a great Clive Trickey fan…now there’s nostalgia)

So…Worrible made it’s competition debut. As I said earlier, it modified itself as it went along. The rear dampers fell off. The front wishbones went banana shaped, the rear wheel arches (much to my girl friend’s distress because she had spent much time painting them purple) enlarged themselves on one side and completely destroyed themselves on the other. Worst of all., the motor ran it’s bearings, because I had drained out Castrol R and merely refilled with GTX. It should have been stripped and cleaned of all traces of the nice smelly stuff…I had learned the hard way.

The bloke who bought Worrible was even dafter than me..he reckoned he was going to cut off the roof ( best bit of the car ) and fit a Lotus Twin Cam. I never heard from him again.

Sorry about all that.

I should have cited that Rolls-Royce Merlin powered Capri of John Dodds (?) as the Baddest Car Ever.

#34 ensign14

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 12:27

Gerry Marshall's Big Bertha looked pretty bad. But I'd go with the Cobra.

Worrible :rotfl:

#35 EProduction

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 17:16

I've always been interested in oddball engine swaps. Miata with 4.3 liter Ford V8, by a company making the conversion for retail sale. Henry J with blown small block Chevy, seen at a recent street show in Salinas, California. Not sure you could turn it. Porsche 914 with Chevy small block. Jaguar sedans with Chevy small blocks and running gear. Austin-Healy100-6 with Chevy small block. Studillac.

#36 petefenelon

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 17:57

Originally posted by EProduction
I've always been interested in oddball engine swaps. Miata with 4.3 liter Ford V8, by a company making the conversion for retail sale. Henry J with blown small block Chevy, seen at a recent street show in Salinas, California. Not sure you could turn it. Porsche 914 with Chevy small block. Jaguar sedans with Chevy small blocks and running gear. Austin-Healy100-6 with Chevy small block. Studillac.


Grassroots Motorsport (a very good fun American mag) had a project car which was a Triumph Spitfire with a Mazda rotary straight out of a fairly cooking-spec RX7. Looked pretty awesome, and not that much heavier than the Triumph lump. Not sure the higher CG of the Mazda rotary wouldn't've affected handling though....

pete

#37 ffiloseta

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 18:33

Lipp, we had the exact same car, color and all !!!

It was actually my sister's. She had it from 1977 to 1983. I never drove it, though, I had no license :blush:

#38 jdanton

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 19:04

917-30. 1200hp and practically undefeated...

#39 rdrcr

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 21:23

Doug,

According to dictionaries, the word "bad" in modern spoken American English means "wonderful (black slang) "
e.g. We had a really bad time last night. You should have been there.

New Dictionary of American Slang also indicate that this new meaning comes from jazz music in the 50's.

Time magazine columnist Pier Lyer wrote: Cool means great. And if something's `bad', that means it's `good'."

The parallel in British spoken English is the word "wicked"
How was the party?
It was wicked. (It means "It was wonderful !")

Over here we also use the term "wicked" with the same connotation.

Originally posted by indycarjunkie
Thanks Don! That's exactly what I was looking for. You are quite right. I did have in mind the Daytona Coupes. I kinda wish Ford would produce a modern version of the Daytona Coupe. Not that I could afford it if they did though.

ICJ,

Save your sheckles... and even though a real Daytona Coupe may still be out of financial reach, you can still acquire a pretty good replica at Factory Five Racing

Turnkey cars available for around $55k USD

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#40 nick stone

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 22:00

Has anyone got a picture of the Morrari? There's BAD for you!

#41 indycarjunkie

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 01:43

Originally posted by rdrcr

Turnkey cars available for around $55k USD

Posted Image


Oh, if only I could afford a $55k toy! I love that car!!

#42 indycarjunkie

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 01:46

I can, however, afford the Exoto version....

Posted Image

#43 Lotus23

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 01:47

EProd, I thought I was the only one old enough to remember a Studillac! Saw my first one at the Boston (Mass) Auto Show in late 51 or early 52.

Also at that show: a 1936 Indycar. I'd never seen one before and actually got to touch it -- one of the High Points of my life at age 13.

#44 Lotus23

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 02:01

Not sure if this is "baddest" or "stupidest": I once saw a BMW Isetta into which someone had shoehorned a big-block Chevy V8! IIRC, there was no way to actually drive the thing.

#45 David Beard

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 12:33

Originally posted by Lotus23
Not sure if this is "baddest" or "stupidest": I once saw a BMW Isetta into which someone had shoehorned a big-block Chevy V8! IIRC, there was no way to actually drive the thing.


Is this it? (my first car was an Isetta...sadly not this one :lol: )

Posted Image

#46 fines

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 14:33

Originally posted by David Beard
Posted Image

Yah great! [mental note]Must show that to my father - his first was an Isetta, too![/mental note]

#47 ensign14

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 14:37

I know someone who drove an Isetta. He parked it right at the end of his garage and starved to death. Terrible, really. :smoking:

#48 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 19:19

Originally posted by Lotus23
Not sure if this is "baddest" or "stupidest": I once saw a BMW Isetta into which someone had shoehorned a big-block Chevy V8! IIRC, there was no way to actually drive the thing.



Back in the sixties there was a V8-egined Fiat Topolino that was raced here in New Zealand. One of our infamous "allcomer saloons."

#49 Wilderness_AT

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 20:52

I volunteer the Brabham-designed V10 Alfa Romeo 164 ProCar of 89. A thinly vailed F1 car in silouette guise.

#50 desmo

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 21:11

http://members.austa...ell/morrari.jpg

Since Ray hasn't posted this yet, I will.