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Long lasting careers


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#1 Udo K.

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 16:27

The 1926 results of the Klausenpass hillclimb show a J. Gloggner winning the 1500 cc sportscar class and a J. Stierli in the 1500 cc touring car category.
Now I do have records of Swiss drivers Joseph Gloggner and Johann Stierli from 1966!
Gloggner, for example, won the 1st Ostschweiz mountain climb (I will not use the term "race" again, David...) in a Fiat-Abarth 1000TC. He was also classified in the Swiss Mountain Grand Prix at Montana-Crans that year. Johann Stierli appeared in the results of the 1966 Eigental hillclimb driving a Fiat-Abarth 850TC. Now I wonder, if these are the same men than back in 1926. I think there are other examples of long careers, i.e. Hans Affentranger from Switzerland, who raced for about 40 years or more.

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#2 Rob G

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 16:55

NASCAR has had its share of long-lived careers. Herschel McGriff is the first name that pops into my head. I believe his career was more than 50 years. Also, Dick Trickle has won over 1,200 races since 1958 and is still racing today, 45 years later.

#3 rdrcr

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 17:40

Speaking of NASCAR... Dave Marcus who just retired last year after begining his racing career in 1968, was a bit Amonesque in his statistics. He won only 5 times in 882 starts.

He was a real throwback to the early years... still driving his race car in wingtips. That's either confidence or stupidity, I'm not sure which.

Often running his team on a shoestring budget his famous motto became:

"We have done so much with so little for so long, that now, we can do anything with nothing."

#4 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 17:52

Originally posted by Rob G
Also, Dick Trickle has won over 1,200 races since 1958 and is still racing today, 45 years later.


Is that possible? Thats 26 race wins a year every year for 45 years. Maybe you mean 1200 starts?

#5 ensign14

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 18:00

I think those who count Trickle's wins include heat races and trophy dashes, so it is not inconceivable that he could pick up 4-5 wins per week.

Sir Francis Samuelson raced before World War I (in cyclecars, with his wife as riding mechanic on their honeymoon in France!) and after World War II (in 500cc Coopers IIRC) - anyone else match this?

#6 Ralliart

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 18:17

:smoking: Mario Andretti had his first win (on a Hudson Hornet) in 1958 at Nazareth. He raced (a Panoz, I think) at Le Mans in 2000. That's a pretty good run though not close to a record. I remember reading in Motor Sport Aktuell a few years back of a German or Austrian who had raced for, like 60 years and it might be that person. It was incredible. I would think Dieter Quester, who will be racing, undoubtedly, in 2003 (at 64) must be the senior citizen today. If Jaki Scheckter (who will be racing at 24) got in the same race with Quester next year, that would be an incredible 40 years age difference. Maybe that would be a record.

#7 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 18:19

Let's not forget the legendary Ralph Ligouri! Seven decades of winning!

#8 MPea3

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 22:31

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Is that possible? Thats 26 race wins a year every year for 45 years. Maybe you mean 1200 starts?


1200 race wins doesn't surprise me, especially if you consider heat race wins. he was VERY successful for a long time on the bullrings of the south. running different tracks and different classes it's entirely possible. it's my understanding that a few years back jack hewitt, running his own late model, sprint car, midget, and the occasional extra ride, ran something over 230 races in one year. that is counting one race per day per car, even if that one race involved a heat race, last chance, and main. i also know that when i lived in central pennsylvania some of the guys would run sprint cars 3 or 4 nights a week, and sometimes other races as well. over a 4 month summer, the races would add up quickly.

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 00:30

Jack Brabham raced at speedway circa 1946... and he was racing at Goodwood only a couple of years ago.

#10 Marcor

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 01:03

Louis Chiron... career from 1923 to 1958. First hillclimb win in 1924 (November 25th, Barbonnet, near Menton).

#11 bobdar

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 02:13

Dan Carmichael won the '95 SCCA National Championship in Formula Atlantic at 76 years of age! I'll be happy just to be able to get into my formula car at that age.

#12 Jim Thurman

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 04:49

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Is that possible? Thats 26 race wins a year every year for 45 years. Maybe you mean 1200 starts?


In Trickle's short track racing days, it was possible to race 7 times a week in Wisconsin.

And the total is for main events. I remember an interview with Trickle where he mentioned racing 6 nights a week, twice on Sundays (afternoon and evening).

In the Midget and Jalopy heyday, a driver could easily race 5 or 6 times a week. This led to some sensational numbers. Johnny Key won over 50 main events in 1952 racing the California Stock Car circuit. It hasn't been as common since the 60's, but there were pockets like Wisconsin where drivers got a lot of experience in a short time (before moving on to NASCAR GN in 1968, Dave Marcis probably also made a huge number of short track starts on the same tracks as Trickle).

And for long careers, there is a fellow in Northern California named Larry Damitz (pronounced Duh-mitts), who is in his mid-70's and has been racing short tracks since 1950 (!). And he was still winning dirt track Late Model races in 2001.


Jim Thurman

#13 anjakub

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 15:00

Jan Ripper (1903-1987) - career from 1926 to 1979. Ripper, one of the famous Polish racing driver, had his first start (on Tatra 11) in Lwow in 1926 - he wos second in class 1100 in category touring cars. In 1977 Jan Ripper won Rajd Zubrow (Aurochs Rally). In this rally he took part also in years 1978-1979.
Aurochs (Bison bonasus ) big bull like bison, who lived in Poland and Lithuania.

#14 Frank de Jong

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 15:15

Hans Stuck Sr was well into his sixties when he became German Hillclimb champion in a BMW 700.

#15 Haddock

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 16:12

In rallying I don't think there's anyone who's been competing as long as Stig Blomqvist (though I prepare to stand corrected)

First rally back in 1964....most recently competed in the Network Q Rally in November in a Group N Mitsubishi. Also done a few rounds in a Works Skoda Octavia WRC earlier in the year

#16 Buford

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 22:49

Originally posted by Rob G
NASCAR has had its share of long-lived careers. Herschel McGriff is the first name that pops into my head. I believe his career was more than 50 years. Also, Dick Trickle has won over 1,200 races since 1958 and is still racing today, 45 years later.


So is McGriff. I saw him race (and crash) a couple months ago at the Las Vegas Nascar West race.

#17 Jim Thurman

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Posted 01 January 2003 - 23:01

Originally posted by Buford


So is McGriff. I saw him race (and crash) a couple months ago at the Las Vegas Nascar West race.


I don't remember the exact race, but Hershel did retire this season.


Jim Thurman

#18 Buford

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 01:49

Maybe after he hit the wall at Las Vegas that I saw. I think it was August or September. Maybe that was his last race.

#19 maxie

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 02:10

Originally posted by rdrcr
Speaking of NASCAR... Dave Marcus who just retired last year after begining his racing career in 1968, was a bit Amonesque in his statistics. He won only 5 times in 882 starts.


Should it be Dave Marcis?
His 5 NASCAR Winston Cup wins came in 1975, 1976 and 1982. In other words, he kept on driving for nearly twenty years after his last win.

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#20 Ralliart

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 05:01

Blomqvist was rallying at 18 (in '64)? He probably has the record. Walter Rohrl started in rallies, I believe, in '68 at 21 on a Fiat 850 and won the '96 Koln-Ahrweiler Rally on an Opel Ascona, so that's a pretty good stretch. Wollek, Pescarolo and Ballot-Lena had all those consecutive Le Mans starts so their careers were extremely lengthy and Derek Bell raced top-line cars for an amazing number of years. There's racing for a long time and then there's racing at or near the top of the racing pinnacle, if you will. To be competitive, at least. Hans-Joachim Stuck first raced in '69 and is still at it. Emmo, after four years of karts, 50 cc motorcycles and soap-box racers, raced a Renault at age 19 in '66 and was active until his accident at the '96 Michigan 500.

#21 Geza Sury

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 13:19

What about Dieter Quester? I've just checked the F1 Rejects site and according to it he started his carrier in 1958 racing speedboats and he's still active today! Take a look at his carrier by clicking here.

BTW European hillclimb champion Mauro Nesti was also racing in his 50s. Whatever happened to him?

#22 petefenelon

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 13:36

Originally posted by Geza Sury
What about Dieter Quester? I've just checked the F1 Rejects site and according to it he started his carrier in 1958 racing speedboats and he's still active today! Take a look at his carrier by clicking here.

BTW European hillclimb champion Mauro Nesti was also racing in his 50s. Whatever happened to him?


Dieter's a hard man. Passed a kidney stone during a Sebring 12 hours and kept on racing, IIRC!

pete

#23 jarama

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 23:41

Another long lasting career,

Tommy Wisdom: In my rallying database, he appears as soon as on 1933 (Coupe des Alpes, MG Magnette K-Type), and as late as on the Monte-Carlo Rally 1965, driving an Austin 1800...

Carles.

#24 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 04:28

Originally posted by Ralliart
Hans-Joachim Stuck first raced in '69 and is still at it.


Yeah, I saw him race at Sembach in a BMW in 1969.

Not as long as some mentioned above but my first race was in 1965 and I have been at it ever since. So I guess this year will be my 39th consecutive year.

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 10:18

I guess, really, I should mention Clem Dwyer...

From Perth, one early outing was the first Albany Hillclimb in a supercharged P-type... 1933... Allan Tomlinson once said of it: "You could hear the car all the way up the hill, it was just beautiful, and nobody could match his time."

Three or four years ago he told me he was using a Subaru WRX on the road, and had a Rotary-engined Westfield in the garage. But he rode his bicycle to the speedway each Friday night... "It's not far, and I sling a foldup chair over my shoulder when I go to put it up on the back of a friend's ute and we get a good view. But I don't know what the police would think of me riding the bike with that over my shoulder!"

Relating this story to someone else from Perth, I was told, "That's nothing! He brings out his vintage racing motorcycles to Wanneroo every so often and gives the young fellows a riding lesson!"

He was, I think, 85 at the time.

#26 Holger Merten

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 10:24

Fabrizia Pons, Co-Pilot of Michéle Mouton in the early 80s on Audi quattro, starts this year with Jutta Kleinschmidt on the VW Touran at Paris Dakar. Pons started her carreer with Mouton in the late 70s on Fiat 131 Abarth.

#27 robert dick

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 10:55

Without going into detail of his career beginnings : In 1905 Louis Wagner was at the wheel of a Darracq in the French Bennett elimination trials. Later he drove for Fiat, Mercedes, Rolland-Pilain, Alfa-Romeo, Delage and Talbot. More than twenty years in the best cars, at the absolute top level.

#28 Jim Thurman

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 00:52

Originally posted by Buford
Maybe after he hit the wall at Las Vegas that I saw. I think it was August or September. Maybe that was his last race.


Hershel McGriff retired after the Winston West race at Fontana in May, so you saw his next to last race. I thought he retired this Spring, and I thought it was after Fontana, but wasn't sure and had to look it up.

Going back and forth through all this stuff, the dates get blurred.

I can do better on something 27 years ago than I can this past May :D


Jim Thurman

#29 Falcadore

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 04:48

Murray Carter started the original Bathuest enduro, at Phillip Island in 1960. In 2000 he was still racing a Chevrolet Corvette C5 in Nations Cup. Murray will turn 72 in a few days.

#30 Gerr

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 19:06

Don Garlits is racing again this coming season.
http://www.speedtv.c...&cat=24&id=4624

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 19:54

Originally posted by Falcadore
Murray Carter started the original Bathurst enduro, at Phillip Island in 1960. In 2000 he was still racing a Chevrolet Corvette C5 in Nations Cup. Murray will turn 72 in a few days.


Murray was racing his Carter Corvette before 1960...

The Phillip Id 'enduros' were the Armstrong 500s.

Incidentally, there is a dispute between Bob Holden and Murray Carter about which one of them started racing first. Bob, I believe, had his first run at the Wangaratta Airstrip circuit in 1955...

#32 Buford

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 20:12

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Hershel McGriff retired after the Winston West race at Fontana in May, so you saw his next to last race. I thought he retired this Spring, and I thought it was after Fontana, but wasn't sure and had to look it up.

Going back and forth through all this stuff, the dates get blurred.

I can do better on something 27 years ago than I can this past May :D


Jim Thurman


That doesn't make sence. I saw him at Las Vegas Speedway this fall or maybe August. He hit the wall in turn 1 and they said it was Hershel McGriff in the car. I did not see him with my own eyes. Maybe the announcer was wrong and that was the car he had formerly driven but somebody else was in it and the announcer didn't have current information.

I have posted this question on the LVMS Nascar forum asking the date of the race and if Hershel McGriff was there. Maybe somebody will respond and we will get this clarified.

Edit - I found the date of the race in question - The Orleans 150 on Saturday, Oct. 12

http://www.nascartou...stonwestseries/ does not list him in the 27 car feature race but I think the crash was in a heat race or practice so that doesn't clarify it. I am beginning to think the announcer was full of crap.

#33 David McKinney

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 20:35

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Murray was racing his Carter Corvette before 1960...

As early as October 1959, in fact. First appearance that month's Fishermen's Bend meeting


Incidentally, there is a dispute between Bob Holden and Murray Carter about which one of them started racing first. Bob, I believe, had his first run at the Wangaratta Airstrip circuit in 1955...

The earliest mention I can find of Bob Holden is at Altona May 1955. I don't get a Carter reference until February 1958, with his XK120, but that is certainly not to say that was his first race.

#34 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 20:46

Originally posted by bobdar
Dan Carmichael won the '95 SCCA National Championship in Formula Atlantic at 76 years of age! I'll be happy just to be able to get into my formula car at that age.


I believe Dan was 77 when he won that race - but what's a year between friends? Carmichael is a remarkable guy indeed. He started racing at age 47 in 1965 (he may have actually started in '64 but I can't verify it) after retiring from a career in the USAF. He was a WWII ace.

Paul Newman raced this past year (2002) in several events including the SCCA Run-offs (in GT1 in an ex-Paul Gentilozzi Jaguar Trans-Am car) at age 77. I believe he started racing in 1971 but this is from memory - I could be a year off.

#35 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 21:39

Originally posted by David McKinney
The earliest mention I can find of Bob Holden is at Altona May 1955. I don't get a Carter reference until February 1958, with his XK120, but that is certainly not to say that was his first race.


Yes, I'd be fairly sure he ran before that, but I'd take Bob's word for it that he was there first...

Bob, incidentally, never had any breaks in his racing until just a few years ago... he ran anything and everything, and he ran everywhere... rallies too, including London-Sydneys etc.

Even in his 'retirement' (though I don't really know if he is retired!) he's been running cars for other people.

Carter, on the other had, had some time off in the sixties at least, which means he's had a broken career.

#36 Joe Fan

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 21:57

Originally posted by Rob G
NASCAR has had its share of long-lived careers. Herschel McGriff is the first name that pops into my head. I believe his career was more than 50 years. Also, Dick Trickle has won over 1,200 races since 1958 and is still racing today, 45 years later.


Don't forget about 67 year old James Hylton who still races in ARCA: http://www.racingone...4&raceyear=2001

Hylton won two races in Winston Cup races (then Grand National) during his career. He is more than likely a very distant cousin of mine too.

I saw both McGriff and Hylton race at Kansas Speedway in 2001.

#37 Falcadore

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 14:43

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Murray was racing his Carter Corvette before 1960...

The Phillip Id 'enduros' were the Armstrong 500s.

Incidentally, there is a dispute between Bob Holden and Murray Carter about which one of them started racing first. Bob, I believe, had his first run at the Wangaratta Airstrip circuit in 1955...


I'd never suggusted the Murray started his career in the big Cusso at PI. Lord help us all if he had. Might explain in later years he prefered the Hardtops to the XU1s if he was used to big being beautiful. And the C5 for that matter.

And the three PI 500s should be included in the broader history of the Bathurst 1000. John Roxburgh and Frank Coad deserve their place in the sun. That and the Geoff Russell issue actually becomes something of meaning.

And Bob's got more starts than Murray too.

#38 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 14:54

Does anyone have Brian Redman's stats...

#39 bobbo

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 22:26

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Does anyone have Brian Redman's stats...


OK, David,

According to FORIX, his first F1 race was South Africa, 1968, so he must have been doing other racing well before that. Maybe (guessing!) starting around 1962 or so?

Mozart, can you fill us in? Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak?

Bobbo

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#40 David McKinney

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 06:11

1958 rings a bell for the year he started racing with his Morris Minor

#41 Jim Thurman

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 08:50

Originally posted by Buford


That doesn't make sence. I saw him at Las Vegas Speedway this fall or maybe August. He hit the wall in turn 1 and they said it was Hershel McGriff in the car. I did not see him with my own eyes. Maybe the announcer was wrong and that was the car he had formerly driven but somebody else was in it and the announcer didn't have current information.

I have posted this question on the LVMS Nascar forum asking the date of the race and if Hershel McGriff was there. Maybe somebody will respond and we will get this clarified.

Edit - I found the date of the race in question - The Orleans 150 on Saturday, Oct. 12

http://www.nascartou...stonwestseries/ does not list him in the 27 car feature race but I think the crash was in a heat race or practice so that doesn't clarify it. I am beginning to think the announcer was full of crap.


Hershel did run the April race at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, and crashed out of it. He ran Fontana the next week (or two weeks later) and announced his retirement.

Maybe the announcer did mean it was the car he had formerly driven...or if he was full of it, it wouldn't be the first time for an announcer :)


Jim Thurman

#42 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 08:59

Originally posted by Falcadore
I'd never suggested the Murray started his career in the big Cusso at PI. Lord help us all if he had. Might explain in later years he prefered the Hardtops to the XU1s if he was used to big being beautiful. And the C5 for that matter.

And the three PI 500s should be included in the broader history of the Bathurst 1000. John Roxburgh and Frank Coad deserve their place in the sun. That and the Geoff Russell issue actually becomes something of meaning.

And Bob's got more starts than Murray too.


I don't think I ever assumed you were...

Sure, the Island events are a part of the race history, I think mainly I was just clarifying things there. They couldn't ever be called 'Bathurst enduros'...

What's the Geoff Russell issue?

Naturally Bob has more starts than Murray...

#43 Falcadore

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 10:29

When Russell tried to get the results changed to reflect the fact that his car had completed the race in a shorter time compared to the Vauxhall which took the chequered flag because of the staggerred start.

#44 David T.

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 12:21

Don't forget Arturo Merzario, who did his first race in 1953, if I remember well. In 2002 Arturo celebrated his 1000th start - both with motorcycles and cars.

#45 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 13:02

Originally posted by Falcadore
When Russell tried to get the results changed to reflect the fact that his car had completed the race in a shorter time compared to the Vauxhall which took the chequered flag because of the staggerred start.


Never heard that story...

What was he driving?

This is reminiscent of the Le Mans finish that gave the Kiwis victory...

#46 fines

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 18:19

Originally posted by David T.
Don't forget Arturo Merzario, who did his first race in 1953, if I remember well. In 2002 Arturo celebrated his 1000th start - both with motorcycles and cars.

Ahem, you sure? I have him born 1943...

#47 David T.

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 22:26

So he told us in the press room. Maybe he was only joking. :p

#48 Falcadore

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 03:24

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Never heard that story...

What was he driving?

This is reminiscent of the Le Mans finish that gave the Kiwis victory...


Geoff Russell tried to get CAMS to recognise in the manual that his team had 'won' the 1960 Phillip Island 500.

While the racetimes themselves have vanished in the mists of time, the Geoff Russell / David Anderson / Tony Loxton Peugeot 403 that finished second past the chequered flag crossed the line less than 10 seconds behind the race winning Frank Coad / John Roxburgh Vauxhall Cresta. With the Pug being a Class C car and the Vox being a Class D car the Vox started the race 10 seconds before the Pug did with the race at the time emphasising the battles between classes started the classes at 10 second intervals.

#49 ghinzani

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 05:29

Eddie Cheevers been racing Single seaters in the International arena since the mid 70s and is only now cutting back - hes been fast all that time, altho never perhaps fulfilled the potential he showed at the begining (altho there will always be wet practice Spa 83!!)

#50 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 20:35

The Greek rally driver Johnny Pesmazoglou deserves a mention, he won the 1952 and 1955 Acropolis Rallies, and went on to compete into the 1990s.