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1950 Year Fastest Laps needed...


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#1 Oleksij Hrushko

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Posted 12 January 2003 - 20:26

Hey, where can I find fastest lap times of 1950 year Championship Grand Prix? Forix have only lap times of Talbot's drivers and sometimes Alfa's...

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#2 jarama

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Posted 12 January 2003 - 21:58

Oleksij,

British GP, Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 1'50"6 @ 151.31 kmh
GP de Monaco, Juan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 1'51"0 @ 103.14 kmh
Indianapolis 500 Mile Race, Johnnie Parsons, Wynn's Friction Proofing Spl., fastest leading lap, time n/a
GP der Schweiz, Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 2'41"6 @ 162.19 kmh
GP van Belgie, Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 4'34"1 @ 185.72 kmh
GP de l'A.C.F., Juan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 2'35"6 @ 180.82 kmh
GP d'Italia, JUan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 2'00" @ 189.00 kmh

Carles.

#3 Geza Sury

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Posted 12 January 2003 - 22:08

I guess Oleksij would like to know the fastest lap of each competitor at a given race, not just the fastest lap overall. Do the 'black books' contain that sort of data? As to Forix, it will go pay-per-view soon and we were promised additional laptimes, to which I'm really looking forward...

#4 scheivlak

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Posted 12 January 2003 - 23:52

Originally posted by jarama
Oleksij,

British GP, Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 1'50"6 @ 151.31 kmh
GP de Monaco, Juan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 1'51"0 @ 103.14 kmh
Indianapolis 500 Mile Race, Johnnie Parsons, Wynn's Friction Proofing Spl., fastest leading lap, time n/a
GP der Schweiz, Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 2'41"6 @ 162.19 kmh
GP van Belgie, Giuseppe Farina, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 4'34"1 @ 185.72 kmh
GP de l'A.C.F., Juan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 2'35"6 @ 180.82 kmh
GP d'Italia, JUan Manuel Fangio, Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159, 2'00" @ 189.00 kmh

Carles.


I'm not an expert at all in this, but I always thought that the 159 was introduced at the 1950 Italian GP, and that Alfa Romeo competed the bulk of the season with the "invincible" 158.

#5 Oleksij Hrushko

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 11:10

Thanks for fastest laps, but I really asked for the fastest lap of each competitor at a given race, not overall.

#6 Don Capps

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 13:34

Originally posted by Oleksij Hrushko
Thanks for fastest laps, but I really asked for the fastest lap of each competitor at a given race, not overall.


Oleksij,

Good luck!

I think that you are destined to be disappointed in your quest for this information. You might get a few of the races if Dame Fortune smiles upon some lucky archivist, but this sort of information usually was produced ex post facto by an enthusiast from information reproduced in Autocourse, for instance, and not by the organizers.

There was no standardized system of race data for many, many years. And even amongst the learned minds of this forum there is some discussion about the accuracy of some of the information long accepted as fact during this period. Perhaps that information still exists, but I would be a bit surprised if it is complete for all the events.

#7 Felix Muelas

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 14:17

Originally posted by Don Capps
There was no standardized system of race data for many, many years.


I wouldn' t dare to even pretend to be in a position where I could choose what is important and what is not in someone else's writings, but even from that distance, I think that the above sentence in one of those that we should read twice or three times...until properly understood. ;)

It could spare some of us many hours and not few disapointments :blush:

Thanks, Don.

#8 stevew01

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 10:30

Oleksij,

The Sheldon Black Books do not have the fastest race laps for each driver.

I have a list of the fastest race laps for the 1950 Italian Grand Prix. They are from a book called Monza Yearbook which I think was published from the early to mid 1960's. I cannot remember which particular yearbook they came from because I only copied the details.

No. Driver Time Lap
18 Fangio 2'00"0 7
10 Farina 2'01"0 6
16 Ascari 2'01"4
46 Sanesi 2'03"8
54 Taruffi 2'03"8
36 Fagioli 2'04"6
48 Serafini 2'06"0
4 Rol 2'09"6
12 Sommer 2'10"4
42 Trintigant 2'10'4
62 Comotti 2'11"6
6 Chiron 2'13"0
58 Rosier 2'13"2
24 Etancelin 2'13"6
38 de Graffenried 2'14"2
32 Harrison 2'14"2
8 Whitehead 2'14"4
64 Louveau 2'15"0
56 Levegh 2'15"6
44 Manzon 2'16"6
2 Claes 2'19"0
30 Bira 2'22"0
40 Mairesse 2'22"0
50 Murray 2'22"2
22 Biondetti 2'31"4
28 Pietsch -

I hope that this is of use to you. I do not have any fastest race laps for the other 1950 races.


Steve

#9 Oleksij Hrushko

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Posted 16 January 2003 - 10:01

Steve, A VERY BIG THANK YOU!

#10 sat

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Posted 16 January 2003 - 20:31

From Silverstone (time/lap)


Giuseppe Farina 01:50,600/2 151,291 km/h
Reg Parnell 01:51,200/7
Juan Manuel Fangio 01:51,200/22
Luigi Fagioli 01:51,400/22
"B. Bira" 01:51,800/22
Bob Gerard 01:53,000/38
Yves Giraud-Cabantous 01:53,400/41
Cuth Harrison 01:55,000/21
Emmanuel de Graffenried 01:55,200/7
Eugène Martin 01:55,200
Louis Rosier 01:55,400/12
Joe Fry 01:55,800/19
David Hampshire 01:57,000/54
Phillipe √Čtancelin 01:57,400/31
David Murray 01:57,800/19
Louis Chiron 01:59,200
Joe Kelly 02:01,800/16
Geoffrey Crossley 02:02,800/20
Johnny Claes 02:03,800/29
Leslie Johnson 02:04,400/2
Peter Walker 02:06,000/5

#11 Oleksij Hrushko

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 15:40

Sat, THANKS A LOT. But as I understand, in Silverstone'50 was fixed lap time of car, not a driver, and lap time of B.Shawe-Taylor is lost, and it's not a lap time of Peter Walker, but Tony Rolt. :(
By the way, by this method of timing it have to be 2 fastest laps of Fangio (own and Taruffi's car)and Ascari (own and Serafini's car) at Italy'50.

#12 sat

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 17:24

Shawe-Taylor shared car with Fry and Rolt with Walker, I dont know where was driving at moment...BTW from other source some times differs little bit (e.g. Crossley 1:59,6)

#13 Oleksij Hrushko

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Posted 06 March 2003 - 14:35

Still trying to find this sort of information...
Read that during Indianapolis 500 was a time-keeping only for leader (fastest leading lap time). Is it possible to find lap times of Bill Holland and Maure Rose?

#14 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 March 2003 - 15:12

Originally posted by Don Capps


Oleksij,

Good luck!

I think that you are destined to be disappointed in your quest for this information. You might get a few of the races if Dame Fortune smiles upon some lucky archivist, but this sort of information usually was produced ex post facto by an enthusiast from information reproduced in Autocourse, for instance, and not by the organizers.

There was no standardized system of race data for many, many years. And even amongst the learned minds of this forum there is some discussion about the accuracy of some of the information long accepted as fact during this period. Perhaps that information still exists, but I would be a bit surprised if it is complete for all the events.


Not only for 1950. I found this telling quote from DSJ appended to a list of fastest laps in the 1958 Portuguese GP published in Motor Sport October 1958:

"The above fastest laps recorded by each driver were given out with the official results, a practice other organisers might copy, for they make interesting reading."

So, eight years on, it was still an unusual practice and worthy of note. :)

#15 Phil Harms

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Posted 07 March 2003 - 12:33

Originally posted by Oleksij Hrushko
Still trying to find this sort of information...
Read that during Indianapolis 500 was a time-keeping only for leader (fastest leading lap time). Is it possible to find lap times of Bill Holland and Maure Rose?


Lap interval standings are available for every 500, going back to the first in 1911. Except for a few years in the early teens, the intervals are 10 laps. For most years they also include laps 1, 2 and 4.

I have all of thern except for a few years in the 50s and 60s. They are quite interesting if you want to analyze which drivers are moving up with the respect to the leader. Detailed pitstop data is also available, starting in 1920. One of these years I'll get all of this on a CD. If anyone is looking for a specific year, I can email a PDF.