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Arrows story, what will they be remembered for...


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#1 Lipp

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:31

For me Morbidelli in the Footwork Arrows Hart, that was a great looking car, and also a car that performed outstanding (even one podium I believe)

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#2 bobbo

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:37

Damon Hill at the Hungaroring, 1997(?)

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#3 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:41

As a team, Hill at Hungary 97. Given the context of modern F1, that was unreal. Even in more competitive eras it would have been somtehing to see a pretty much backmarker team running like that with a junk enigne in the back.

On a personal note, Morbidelli's press conference at Australia 95

#4 Lipp

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:49

Yes, 97 was the only year that Walkin'shark put together a good team. With a Yamaha engine! (a very light and compact one, that broke down all the time)

#5 Jordi #99

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:51

Damon at Hungary'97...

Why did he have to be so unlucky? If he had won that race, he would have won a race with each team he had raced in F1. (Big thing considering he ran for Arrows and Jordan)

Plus he made a great overtaking maneuver on MSch.

#6 David M. Kane

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:55

For starting off on the wrong foot and ending-up on the wrong foot! They lost a court battle for taking the drawings of the new Shadow with them when Alan Rees and Jackie Oliver left Shadow with Tony Southgate in hand. Don Nichols prevailed and they had to modify the their car, can't remember if there was any compensation involved or not.

Not to be outdone, Walkinshaw decided to end it the way he did...what a
bloody waste!

#7 Lutz G

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:56

I'm surprised nobody mentioned South Africa '78!

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#8 ensign14

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:59

I still think they were screwed out of a win at Sweden in 1978, when the fan car won. Regardless of whether 70% of the fan's work was to cool the engine, as has been alleged, and only 30% of it was to suck the car down to the track, Brabham would never have used the fan had it not been for the aerodynamic benefits. Therefore the primary use of the fan was the aerodynamic gain, which made it a moveable aerodynamic device, and therefore illegal...

#9 Lutz G

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:02

Originally posted by ensign14
I still think they were screwed out of a win at Sweden in 1978, when the fan car won. Regardless of whether 70% of the fan's work was to cool the engine, as has been alleged, and only 30% of it was to suck the car down to the track, Brabham would never have used the fan had it not been for the aerodynamic benefits. Therefore the primary use of the fan was the aerodynamic gain, which made it a moveable aerodynamic device, and therefore illegal...


Didn't they say before the race that car is legal? What about the story that Wattie and Lauda where that fast in qualifying that they ran with lot's of fuel on board (to sort of hide the real performance of the car)...

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#10 Slyder

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:03

Originally posted by Lutz G
I'm surprised nobody mentioned South Africa '78!

Lutz



That's Riccardo Patrese's nearwin right?

Also for Damon Hill's near win at Hungary 1997. That was a great looking car BTW.

#11 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:04

Originally posted by Lipp
Yes, 97 was the only year that Walkin'shark put together a good team. With a Yamaha engine! (a very light and compact one, that broke down all the time)


Not to tangent too heavily, but he didnt too bad running Benetton as team manager, and was decent at Ligier for as brief as he was there. And I am continually impressed by the Orange deal he put together

#12 Lutz G

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:17

Originally posted by Slyder



That's Riccardo Patrese's nearwin right?


Right! Patrese was leading for a loooong time. IMO they knew all the time during race that his engine might causes trouble cause they had problems in the sessions before....
After Patrese dropped out this race was sooo exiting to watch! I got it "live on tape" (from ORF). The race is one of my all time favourites. If you get your hands on this tape - WATCH THAT VIDEO! But it's only half the fun if you know already who won - so I won't tell :D
But beware - you don't want to see any modern F1 "racing" anymore after that....

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#13 Lutz G

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:24

And nobody mentioned Long Beach 81! ;)

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#14 cheesy poofs

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:33

The 1988 season was kind to them with Warwick and Cheever running the Megatron ( aka BMW ) powered Arrows. :up:

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 21:14

Originally posted by Lutz G
I'm surprised nobody mentioned South Africa '78!


...or the overall impact they made when they arrived!

They were right at the front from the beginning, but by 1981 they were virtual also-rans, compounded by that accident in Belgium.

#16 Lipp

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 21:37

Nice to see that there are also people who like to remember the good days of a team that was wasted in more recent years.

#17 2F-001

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 22:52

Originally posted by Jordi #99
Damon at Hungary'97...
...If he had won that race, he would have won a race with each team he had raced in F1...

Err... which race did he win with Brabham then?  ;)

#18 2F-001

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 22:55

I'm with Lutz on this... Patrese's pole would be my stand-out memory... just my age I guess!

#19 dretceterini

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 02:48

I think the early cars had rather attractive paint jobs (gold and black Warsteiner), and that the 02 is a very interesting looking car...

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#20 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 04:49

Damon Hill at Hungary in 97

Pedro de la Rosa with his performances in 2000. The car was also beautiful decked in orange and black and was pretty much a tiger on the run.

Ricardo Patrese pole in 1981

#21 Lipp

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 08:10

For me (as a Jos fan...sorry) running second in the rain at Sepang, and the battle with Häkkinen when the track was drying up.

#22 Ralliart

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 08:15

Sweden '78? While the fan car was controversial, after the race Ronnie Peterson, who rarely ragged on another driver, was really upset with Patrese's antics. So I wouldn't say that was Arrow's finest hour.

#23 Breadmaster

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 09:48

Hungary 1997 of course......

as for the fan car mentioned earlier...as i understand it they qualified that car on full tanks and race tyres...!! (and they were still 2,3 on the grid after andretti's mega-lotus!)

#24 Mohican

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 11:14

Nobody has mentioned the Arrows-Porsche...which was not quite the same thing as a McLaren-Porsche...

Seriously, Arrows finest hour was their second race: the South African GP in 1978. It is a pity that the world never got to see Gunnar Nilsson driving that car.

#25 mikedeering

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 12:41

Derek Warwick, Canada 1989.

#26 ian senior

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 13:02

One word answer: underachievement.

#27 Jordi #99

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 18:09

Originally posted by 2F-001

Err... which race did he win with Brabham then?  ;)


Oops, that's true! Even though qualifying that BT60B must have felt like a victory!

#28 F1master

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 18:29

copying from shadow and the way tony walkinshaw ruled the team :down:

#29 Maldwyn

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 18:46

Arrows will be remembered with a great deal of gratitude by myself for many happy motorsport memories, many of which survive to this day.

The name first appeared as I was becoming a real F1 enthusiast and I was exceedingly lucky to go to a number of British GP's with the team. It's something I'll never forget and, although the fall of TWR Arrows has little connection with the 1978 team, I have supported them ever since.

South Africa 1978 was extraordinary, and the team (maybe) should have been awarded the Swedish GP victory later in the year, but should never have built the A2. Long Beach 1981 is another milestone and another possible victory that slipped away; only a change of tyre manufacturer in 1981 put paid to their competitiveness. From then on it was a struggle with a few bright spots - Alan Jones's race return, Surer (at Monaco '83) & Boutsen's performances in the A6, Gerhard Berger's GP debut, the Eddie & 'Del Boy' show that gave them their highest championship position (5th) in 1988, and of course Damon's superb Hungarian GP performance.

Many thanks to Alan Rees, Jackie Oliver and co.

#30 Frank de Jong

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 19:08

Originally posted by Lipp
For me (as a Jos fan...sorry) running second in the rain at Sepang, and the battle with Häkkinen when the track was drying up.

I must say I was most impressed by Jos' test with Arrows at the end of 1993. And I was not the only one.
That car had true potential - albeit discovered a bit late...

#31 Lipp

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 19:53

That is indeed true frank, he was quicker than Warwick and, according to legend, the reason for Warwick to quit.
But then again this is not the issue here.
We're here to remeber the remnants of what once was ARROWS.
Any other stories?
or fine pictures of the ARROWS cars through the years?
(still love the Footwork Honda)

http://www.forix.com...93/01009_rn.jpg

#32 Maldwyn

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 21:25

The Arrows A2 - British GP 1979

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#33 David Beard

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 21:31

Originally posted by Maldwyn
The Arrows A2 - British GP 1979


A much, but wrongly, maligned car in my view. That's the one where the DFV was tipped up at the rear to add to the venturi shape of the underside? Seemed logical to me. I liked it.

#34 baggish

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 23:35

Originally posted by Maldwyn
The Arrows A2 - British GP 1979


I remember on several occasions the A2 was described in Autosport as being shaped like an upside-down banana. Then someone (Catchpole?) wondered what was the correct way up for a banana. Never saw that description again :lol:

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#35 Zawed

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 02:03

Arrows, such a tragic waste of sometimes good funds/equipment...Best memories is of Hill in Hungary and Verstappen in the wet 2000/2001. de la Rosa also had some excellent runs in 2000. One wonders what have been had they had the reliability when they really needed, ala Frentzen when he was running 4th at the British GP...

BTW, does anyone know date/dates and times of Jos Verstappen's test with the team in 93?

#36 Seppi_0_917PA

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 03:14

For me the '81 Long Beach pole since I was there.

I've always wondered if there is any story or meaning behind the name 'Arrows'???

#37 lukywill

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 07:49

the magic race of kayalami 78 - patrese and arrows 01

#38 Jonathan

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 07:51

Originally posted by Ralliart
Sweden '78? While the fan car was controversial, after the race Ronnie Peterson, who rarely ragged on another driver, was really upset with Patrese's antics. So I wouldn't say that was Arrow's finest hour.


IIRC Patrese was swerving back and forth all down the main straight. At one point he served so far to the edge of the track that his rear wheels spun up a rock, hit Peterson in the helmet, and knocked off his yellow visor. Ronnie who had dropped to seventeenth to have a slow puncture replaced had put on something of a show, bringing the JPS Lotus 79 through the field in front of his home crowd. Unfortunately and he and Patrese were only fighting over third place, behind Niki and Mario.

While Jackie Oliver's ripping off Don Nicholes' Shadow team was certainly memorable - sort of a mini-moutiny from within the Shadow team. I think I would have to agree with the majority here and say it was Damon Hills near win in Hungary '97 with Bridgestone tyres. So Close, and yet so far...

#39 2F-001

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 08:04

Originally posted by Seppi_0_917PA
...I've always wondered if there is any story or meaning behind the name 'Arrows'???

It's an acronym of the founders' initials. (Which explains the car - singular - being ''an Arrows'' rather than a
''an Arrow''.)

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#40 petefenelon

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 12:08

Originally posted by 2F-001

It's an acronym of the founders' initials. (Which explains the car - singular - being ''an Arrows'' rather than a
''an Arrow''.)


I thought the acronym was for (Franco) Ambrosio Racing (their initial and moderately dodgy backer - setting a trend!) with (Alan) Rees, (Jackie) Oliver, (Dave) Wass and (Tony) Southgate.

pete

#41 ensign14

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Posted 15 January 2003 - 13:04

Originally posted by 2F-001
(Which explains the car - singular - being ''an Arrows'' rather than a
''an Arrow''.)

Except where Tony Southgate is concerned - in Grand Prix International in 1983 he referred to them as Arrow, thus removing himself from their past...

#42 Mischa Bijenhof

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Posted 16 January 2003 - 20:33

And of course they were the team that gave Formula 1 fans one full season of Taki Inoue!

#43 paulb

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Posted 16 January 2003 - 22:27

Their PENTHOUSE sponsorship. 1981?

#44 Zawed

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Posted 17 January 2003 - 00:04

Originally posted by paulb
Their PENTHOUSE sponsorship. 1981?


Was'nt that just for the North American races? Penthouse may have also appeared in 82. I've seen pics of Patrese in Long Beach with Penthouse on the rear wing, but not at any other races as I recall. Of course someone will no doubt disabuse me of that notion...

#45 No27

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Posted 17 January 2003 - 23:03

Originally posted by paulb
Their PENTHOUSE sponsorship. 1981?


Penthouse sponsored Patrick Tambay's Theodore-Ford in 1981.
Arrows had Beta (mechanicall aids) and Ragno (ceramica, hence the
bathroom livery)

Think the Warsteiner cars looked the best, followed by the Orange outfit in 2000 and the all
black livery in 1998.

I always liked Arrows. In their first years they were sort of promise. Later on, they started to fall behind. But it was always good to see guys like Marc Surer, Thierry Boutsen, Gerhard Berger and Jos Verstappen do nearly impossible things in the cars.

#46 Maldwyn

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 08:33

Originally posted by paulb
Their PENTHOUSE sponsorship. 1981?

IIRC they were also sponsored by Penthouse at Long Beach in 1980.

#47 paulb

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 16:52

My 1981 lap chart (qual times only) from the LBGP has a large PENTHOUSE Racing logo on it.

#48 Zawed

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 01:09

Here's a pic of Stohr at Long Beach, 1981. Check the rear wing. Normally there was a Ragno banner across the wing but here it is replaced with Penthouse.
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#49 mp4

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 03:31

Penthouse sponsored a Hesketh in '77 or '78. It had a scantily clad woman painted on the front of their cowl.

#50 David M. Kane

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 15:54

Was not the Penthouse Hesketh driven by Rupert Keegan? Did he not also
drive the Durex-Surtees? Is so, what was that all about? I understand he was a bit of playboy?