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#1 Chris Skepis

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 11:43

Hi folks,
Why did Revson leave Mc Laren at the end of 1973 ? He and Denny Hulme seemed to be the best of friends, and Mc Laren was stronger than Shadow at that time. And why he desapeared from F1 after 1964 and only returned on the early seventies ?

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 12:36

Originally posted by Chris Skepis
Hi folks,
Why did Revson leave Mc Laren at the end of 1973 ? He and Denny Hulme seemed to be the best of friends, and Mc Laren was stronger than Shadow at that time.

Due to the arrival of Emerson Fittipaldi, bearing a large amount of Marlboro money. Marlboro/McLaren were only going to run two cars and Revson was offered only third string, with Yardley sponsorship. Shadow offered him a better deal.

Originally posted by Chris Skepis
[B]And why he desapeared from F1 after 1964 and only returned on the early seventies ?

I think it was a combination of disenchantment (lack of success) and running out of money. Although he was part of the Revlon cosmetics family, he had financed his own racing - the "rich playboy" image was not merited in Pete's case.

#3 David M. Kane

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 13:23

He was going to be the sole #1 at Shadow. He had been #2 to Hulme at McLaren. Don Nichols says to this day that he was the best driver they ever
had particularly from a developmental point of view.

I think he left F1 in the '60s because he knew or felt he needed more
experience.

He was a surprising modest and shy man. He didn't like too much spotlight.
He just wanted to race. He was a very well rounded racer who did well in
Indy cars, Can-Am, Trans-Am and F1. He was really going to bust out with
Shadow in my opinion.

#4 theunions

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 17:44

I would still like to find out more information (esp. photos) on how Peter started his career here racing sportscars at Dillingham Field in 1960.

#5 WGD706

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 21:43

Peter Revson attended several Eastern prep schools and colleges but his interests was mainly in sports, particularly football. Restless, he moved to Hawaii, and while attending the University of Hawaii he entered some Associated Sports Car Club events in 1960 driving a Morgan Plus 4. He was 2nd his first time out,won his second race, but after his third the local organization banned him as "too aggressive."
http://www.nsxhelp.c...xlit/hawaii.htm
http://www.mshf.com/...evson_peter.htm

#6 David M. Kane

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 22:33

"Revvie" was a great all around sportsman who won a competition against
other American professionals from the NFL, NBA, etc. He was particularly
strong in the swimming events. I think the prize was around $20,000 at the time. I was very impressed.

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 22:47

Originally posted by David M. Kane
"Revvie" was a great all around sportsman who won a competition against
other American professionals from the NFL, NBA, etc. He was particularly
strong in the swimming events. I think the prize was around $20,000 at the time. I was very impressed.


Ah, yes - Superstars. Jackie Stewart and Jody Scheckter both did well in that too. I think all the "traditional" sportsmen were surprised at the stamina and upper body strength of the racing drivers. IIRC Stewart set one of the best ever marks in the "Chin" event (pull-ups resting your chin on a bar), while Jody was particularly impressive in the "squat-thrust".

#8 Keir

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 00:45

I believe that Peter felt that he would always get "second best" at McLaren. In an "all too brief" talk with him at the "Glen," he directly stated those feelings. Shadow was certainly the way for him to go. His death was a real blow to the American racing efforts.

#9 cabianca

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 06:04

Despite his name, the Revlon cosmetics empire was run by Peter Revson's father's brother. His side of the family was not involved, at least not at the time Peter came of age and press attention. I'm not saying Peter didn't come from a comfortable background, just not as comfortable as "Revlon Heir" would denote. One of the problems with motorsports reporters is that they rarely read the business section of the newspaper. It's the same situation as Ted Field always being called a "Department Store Heir", when his side of the family had sold out their interest in the Marshall Field department store shortly after Ted's birth. I can cite numerous other examples, but let it suffice that racing (and other sports) writers often go for sensation rather than facts. But isn't this the practice of most journalists today.

#10 fines

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 11:32

Originally posted by cabianca
But isn't this the practice of most journalists today.

Sadly, yes! :(

#11 David M. Kane

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 14:30

Actually the Revlon saga was a bad one. Charles Revson actually cheated his
brother, Peter's father, out of his share of Revlon. He was such an evil
man that Helena Rubenstein refused to use his name and always referred to him as "THAT MAN". So Charles really got her goat by releasing a fragrance
called...THAT MAN. It was a huge success!

#12 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 06:23

Looking for a suitable Revson thread I choose this one :

In 1964 Peter revson under the Revson Racing (America) name entered 5 WCF1 and 7 NWCF1 races in a Lotus 24 BRM. A pretty outdated combo by 1964 , thus he did not show up much in good results.

Does any of you know anything about his team , did he have some kind of deal with Parnell or did he just pop up with the car etc . ?

#13 john winfield

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 07:10

Looking for a suitable Revson thread I choose this one :

In 1964 Peter revson under the Revson Racing (America) name entered 5 WCF1 and 7 NWCF1 races in a Lotus 24 BRM. A pretty outdated combo by 1964 , thus he did not show up much in good results.

Does any of you know anything about his team , did he have some kind of deal with Parnell or did he just pop up with the car etc . ?


Bjorn,
According to the the Leon Mandel / Peter Revson book, John Cooper suggested that Revson approach Reg Parnell to rent some garage space for his 1963 Cooper (RP had lost his sponsor and would appreciate the income). Reg kept an eye on Peter's 1963 F3 performances and offered him a Formula One test driver role for 1964, supporting the Lotus 25 pairing of Chris Amon and Mike Hailwood. Sadly, of course, Reg died that winter.
"....Parnell's son Tim took over the team.......Revson and Tim Parnell made a deal for Revson to drive a Lotus-BRM in Formula 1, but it would have to be under the name Revson Racing, because that way it could be rated as though it were a different team altogether and that would mean additional starting money."

That seems to explain the origins of the team (which was Peter and one mechanic I think) but I'm not sure whether the Lotus-BRM car itself was already owned by the Parnells or whether Tim acquired it for Peter, or Peter found it elsewhere, early in 1964.

John


#14 Keir

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 14:05

Peter's car was part of the package that Reg Parnell put together for 1964. The cars were all to have the latest Climax engines, but with Reg's untimely death, the team were left with carb BRMs and though not stictly outdated, they were certainly not up with the rest.

#15 Stephen W

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 14:21

Posted Image

Peter Revson's Ron Harris Lotus 35 F2 at Oulton Park 1965

:wave:

#16 David M. Kane

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 14:27

I believe George Eaton's family owned a Department Store in Canada called "Eaton's".

#17 Keir

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 17:09

I believe George Eaton's family owned a Department Store in Canada called "Eaton's".


Right you are. The chain went bankrupt in 1999 and was aquired by Sears.

#18 alansart

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 17:40

Right you are. The chain went bankrupt in 1999 and was aquired by Sears.


The legacy being the Eaton Centre Shopping Mall in Toronto, at the end of the long maze of underground walkways and shops.

I suppose they sell Revlon cosmetics in there somewhere, so it's a tenuous link :)

Edited by alansart, 18 June 2009 - 17:41.


#19 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 19:00

Post 16 : David I take it as a misunderstanding from your side ? Else you have to explain the connection ,please.

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#20 B Squared

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 19:36

If anyone is interested in the Revson/ Revlon business, I suggest Fire and Ice by Andrew Tobias published by William Morrow and Company, Inc. 1976. It is mainly about Charles (Peter's uncle) but also covers Martin (Peter's dad) and the building of the business. Peter is mentioned and photos of him are also in the book. Peter was admired by Charles in that he had struck out on his own and did what he wanted. A quote: "The Revson toughness, pride, and drive for excellence was every bit as clear in Peter as it was in Charles and Martin."



#21 David M. Kane

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 21:09

Bjorn:

The connection is strictly rich guys racing possible from family fortunes, nothing more, nothing less.

#22 RA Historian

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 21:13

Bjorn:

The connection is strictly rich guys racing possible from family fortunes, nothing more, nothing less.

David, I thought that the idea (myth?) of Peter Revson racing on the family fortune has long been debunked.
Tom

#23 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 21:40

Bjorn:

The connection is strictly rich guys racing possible from family fortunes, nothing more, nothing less.


Indeed, but poles apart in terms of talent (Indy pole winner, British & Canadian GP winner vs er, what?).

Having money doesn't make you fast.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 18 June 2009 - 21:40.


#24 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 00:14

Oh, I'm not so sure about that, Nioge.

George did some pretty creditable work at times and I think you're selling him very short.

And no, I'm not about to trot out the stats to back it up. Those who know...know.

Edited by Manfred Cubenoggin, 19 June 2009 - 00:18.


#25 David M. Kane

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 00:31

Peter Revson father was still very rich. We'll never know how much he supported Peter. Nonetheless he had a boatload of talent and he was a very, very accomplished race driver who won enough money on his own. :up:

#26 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 09:38

Oh, I'm not so sure about that, Nioge.

George did some pretty creditable work at times and I think you're selling him very short.

And no, I'm not about to trot out the stats to back it up. Those who know...know.


Point taken, I was too harsh, but George wasn't in any way comparable to Revvie in terms of ability or success.

At the end of the day, one respects anyone who got in to one of those cars on those tracks in that era, especially a BRM at Mosport!

#27 grandprix61

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 04:39

Bjorn:

The connection is strictly rich guys racing possible from family fortunes, nothing more, nothing less.

I notice a number of posts seem to think "Rich Kids" were the only drivers who managed to become great in the sport. If you look over entry lists of almost any SCCA event in the early days (the 50's and onward) many times you would see an entrant who you never heard of with a driver listed who was fortunate enough to have a backer of sorts to get him in a better ride. These fellows were fortunate enough to not have to be spending there own money. I guess they would cover their own expenses to get there and stay for a few days. I guess hanging around the country club and playing a lot of golf gets boring so for a little excitement they buy a car, offer some up and coming kid a ride and go have a good time enjoying the racing. With out taking the risk of getting themselves killed. Unless the wife catches up with you and asks about that good looking blond keeping the lap chart and then you will probably get killed in divorce court. I also have heard that a few fellows would enter a car at the Indy 500 just to have access to the pits for the month of May and it included a number of passes so you could bring your friends along. So, I personally am happy that some young men with deep pockets could buy some very hot cars and get them over here and race them. I would not want to grow up with out hearing a Lister or Porsche RS going up the hill from corner 5 at Road America. Corner 12 was called Thunder Valley because of the noise bouncing off of the hills. Next time you go to the historic races, stand there and just listen. And be thankful for the Briggs Cunninghams, the Jim Kimberlys, and the import car dealers that bought a great car and put Phil Hill, Dan Gurney, Shelby and others in them and gave us the memories. Grandprix61

#28 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 19:19

Thanks to all , especially post 13 John & post 14 Keir confirming his 1964 F1 transports. Also thanks to post 15 Stephen for a nice F2 picture.

#29 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:59

By the second half of 1973 Revson had been in talks with Ferrari. They offered him an exclusive contract for F1 and Sports Prototypes in 1974. However Revson wanted freedom to do Indy and possibly other races. Ferrari offered 100k, Revson wanted 150? One of Montezemolo's first decisions I think at Ferrari was to take up Rega instead. Revson did telex Ferrari one more time, but got no answer.
Still would have been an interesting combi: Revson-Lauda.
Would Ferrari have made first contact?

#30 E1pix

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:37

Another question might be: Would Revvie have whooped up on Niki?

#31 john winfield

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:12

By the second half of 1973 Revson had been in talks with Ferrari. They offered him an exclusive contract for F1 and Sports Prototypes in 1974. However Revson wanted freedom to do Indy and possibly other races. Ferrari offered 100k, Revson wanted 150? One of Montezemolo's first decisions I think at Ferrari was to take up Rega instead. Revson did telex Ferrari one more time, but got no answer.
Still would have been an interesting combi: Revson-Lauda.
Would Ferrari have made first contact?


Arjan, the Mandel/Revson book doesn't have an index and I'm not sure where the first Ferrari/1974 reference appears. Apparently it was at Zandvoort in late July 1973 that Teddy Mayer informed Peter that he was being 'released'. (This was the next race after his win at Silverstone). Peter had already heard rumours of a big name driver coming with sponsorship (Emerson apparently approached Teddy Mayer in early July). In the book, Peter confirms that, at Zandvoort, he was talking 'again' to Don Nichols about the possibility of joining Shadow.
A month later, at Ontario for the California 500, Peter was talking to Shadow, Ferrari and Eagle. Graham Hill had approached him too. I don't know whether Teddy Mayer had insisted upon the driver changes being kept secret but, a month after Peter had received the unwelcome McLaren news, Tyler Alexander still didn't know. That seems surprising.
The Ferrari negotiations were becoming serious by the Canadian GP - a thirty two minute telexed contract was sent to Revson from Maranello - but seemed to falter, before Watkins Glen, when no firm reply was received to contract changes requested by Peter. By the Laguna Seca Can-Am round in mid-October, Peter had signed for the Shadow GP team, and with Roger Penske to drive at Indy.

Sorry, I still don't know whether Ferrari made the first contact! My guess is they did, putting out feelers, letting Revson know they could be interested, 'come and see us in Maranello' etc., but I have no evidence.

Edited by john winfield, 10 January 2013 - 09:13.


#32 JacnGille

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 14:54

Another question might be: Would Revvie have whooped up on Niki?

The results of a Revson/Penske combo is a question I would have loved to see the answer for.

#33 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 16:56

Perhaps a mention of Peter's younger brother, Doug, might be worthwhile here. He was following - metaphorically - in his brother's wheeltracks when he lost his life in that ghastly accident at the Djurslandring. Jennifer Revson had two racing brothers, and tragically lost them both.

DCN

#34 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 18:20

Jennifer Revson had two racing brothers, and tragically lost them both.


One might imagine that such circumstances would turn her against the sport. Thankfully she remains an enthusiastic protector and promoter of her brother's legacy.


#35 Emery0323

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 18:41

Despite his name, the Revlon cosmetics empire was run by Peter Revson's father's brother. His side of the family was not involved, at least not at the time Peter came of age and press attention. I'm not saying Peter didn't come from a comfortable background, just not as comfortable as "Revlon Heir" would denote.


This reminds me of the one on-camera interview with Peter Revson that I can recall came during coverage of an Indycar race on ABC in the early 70's. Pete said something to the effect of "People think I'm rich, and I'm NOT! That's why I have to make a living racing."


One might imagine that such circumstances would turn her against the sport. Thankfully she remains an enthusiastic protector and promoter of her brother's legacy.


Indeed, her guardianship of his legacy is very impressive. In recent years she's weighed in on the controversial provenance of a CanAm McLaren that was purported to be Peter's:

http://automobiliart...-follow-up.html


#36 SEdward

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 19:41

14 July 1973
My best mate and I cycled to Silverstone. He was a Revson fan and I was an Ickx fan. He painted "REVSON" on an old sheet, and we waved it hard when the man came round on his lap of honour. I like to think that he saw it. We were standing at Club Corner. Jacky tooled around in an uncompetitive B3 and finished a lowly eighth.

17 March 1974
We camped at Brands all weekend. The weather was OK on Friday and Saturday, but the rains came on Sunday. He was still a Revson fan and I was still an Ickx fan. Jacky drove round everyone else and won. Peter tooled around in the water and finished 6th, one lap down.

Five days later Peter was dead and Jacky never won another race at the wheel of a Formula One car.

It was a meaningful day for my best mate and me.
RIP Peter

Edward

Edited by SEdward, 10 January 2013 - 20:10.


#37 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:17

Indeed, her guardianship of his legacy is very impressive. In recent years she's weighed in on the controversial provenance of a CanAm McLaren that was purported to be Peter's:

http://automobiliart...-follow-up.html

She also did so on this forum - here's her first post on the subject, and there are more in the subsequent discussion:

Jennifer Revson's response.

First, I would like to thank Tom for expressing his interest, and initiating this topic, in the completely erroneous information regarding the Scott Hughes car, which appears in the current issue of Vintage Motorsport Magazine. And thanks also to the Friends and fans of my brother, Peter, who have so kindly spoken up and supported me about this most distressing distortion of my brother's Can-Am racing history. Scott Hughes has been told by me, three historians, that I know of, and numerous fellow vintage racers that he doesn't have my brother's 1971 championship winning M8F team car. In fact, what Hughes owns is a 1973 Commander Motors built car. Peter's "real" M8F team car is owned by Evert Louwman, and resides in the beautiful Dutch National Motor Museum in The Hague, and hasn't even been in the US since 1985. The fact that Hughes has been very ugly to me personally, when I've approached him about this matter, and willfully spews untruths to my brother's fans, who approach his car thinking they're touching a part of my brother's racing history, and then basks in the glory of it all, is despicable to me. He is the antithesis of everything my brother stood for in life, and I'm not going to sit back and allow him to blatantly disrespect Peter like this. I've written a very detailed letter to Randy Riggs, editor of Vintage Motorsport, asking for a correction in the next issue, and have received a reply that he would. This year marks the 40th anniversary that Peter won the Can-Am championship and sat on the pole at Indy. Naturally, I'm very proud of Peter, not only because of his racing ability, but as a man who possessed great character, and the best brother a sister could have ever hoped for. Thanks for all your support! Jennifer



#38 RA Historian

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:18

Indeed, her guardianship of his legacy is very impressive. In recent years she's weighed in on the controversial provenance of a CanAm McLaren that was purported to be Peter's:

http://automobiliart...-follow-up.html

Yes, Jennifer has devoted her life to the memory of her dear brothers. I have the pleasure of knowing her, and am impressed very much by her devotion and efforts at keeping their memory and legacy alive. A very wonderful lady.

She was the leader in rallying support to debunk the false claim that an M8F that was in fact built up by Commander Racing but claimed to be Peter's car. A fellow named Scott Hughes owns the Commander M8F, built in 1973, two years after Peter won the Can Am. He vigorously claimed that it was Peter's car, which it plainly was not. Jennifer got Bob Lee, Don Devine, and myself, among others, involved in the pursuit of truth, which of course ultimately came out. Hughes's car, while an M8F raced in period, was not the Revson car despite his claims. Hughes finally threw in the towel, and his M8F, two years on, still remains for sale on consignment to Fantasy Junction. But back to the point. Rather than sit idly by, Jennifer mobilized the troops, exposed the myth, and preserved Peter's memory. Wonderful!

Tom

#39 E1pix

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 22:24

Great posts here, everyone! :up:

And Thanks Again for your efforts, RA. Very admirable, and I can think of no greater way to properly honor the memory of one of my favorite drivers. I'm as moved by Jennifer's post as I was the first time.

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#40 arttidesco

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 23:02

Still would have been an interesting combi: Revson-Lauda.


In fairness I very much doubt such a combination would ever have happened it was after all Regazzoni who recommended Niki to Ferrari SFAIK after he had bagged the no 1 seat at Ferrari for himself.

So the more interesting question might be who might Peter Revson have recommended as his team mate to Ferrari ?

#41 Andretti Fan

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:01

In fairness I very much doubt such a combination would ever have happened it was after all Regazzoni who recommended Niki to Ferrari SFAIK after he had bagged the no 1 seat at Ferrari for himself.

So the more interesting question might be who might Peter Revson have recommended as his team mate to Ferrari ?



Would Ickx have gone back to Ferrari instead of Lotus?
Could Andretti have been lured to Ferrari instead of Parnelli?
Would Peterson, at the end of 74, gone to Ferrari instead of staying at Lotus for a horrible year with the outdated 72D?
Maybe Brian Redman would parley his Ferrari sports car experience into a full time F1 drive.

#42 Ralliart

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:15

In fairness I very much doubt such a combination would ever have happened it was after all Regazzoni who recommended Niki to Ferrari SFAIK after he had bagged the no 1 seat at Ferrari for himself.

So the more interesting question might be who might Peter Revson have recommended as his team mate to Ferrari ?

arttidesco, I'm glad you made the correction. Additionally, I believe it is from "Ferrari: The Grand Prix Car Alan Henry" (please correct me if I blown it title/author-wise):
"The end of the 1972 season...marked Clay Regazzoni's departure from the Ferrari team, albeit briefly. Enzo Ferrari had made it clear to the easygoing Swiss that it looked as though there would be only sufficient finance available in 1973 to run a single entry from Maranello. "He told me that I was free to do a deal with another team," recalls Clay, "but he also hinted that there might be a chance of my returning at some time in the future." Regazzoni went off to drive for the Marlboro BRM team, but clearly decided that this partnership was taking his career nowhere fast and, by the following summer's British Grand Prix, had virtually agreed terms for a 1974 return to Ferrari!
Why would Ferrari ask Regazzoni who he'd like the team to hire - Lauda - and on the other hand be negotiating with Revson? I don't doubt Regazzoni; sounds to me like Ferrari was playing games with Revson - not being honest. Were they asking him who he'd like the team to hire? Or did Ferrari ask Regazzoni after talks fell through with Revson? In order, logically, everything being equal, Ferrari would prefer Revson, Regazzoni and Lauda. Had it happened, I think a Revson/Regazzoni pairing would've worked well with the former consistently quicker than the latter. Lauda could've won the title; Regazzoni almost did. Peter Revson, the world champion in 1974? Works for me. So does number one at Shadow. I'm among many who believe Peter Revson was a tremendous race car driver. His passing and his brother's - what can I say? So tragic. Ms. Revson sounds like a wonderful person and I'm very happy that the guy/car lack of legitimacy was exposed.

#43 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:32

Thanks everyone for genuine input, as always!

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WC, most certainly!

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#44 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:37

... Why would Ferrari ask Regazzoni who he'd like the team to hire - Lauda - and on the other hand be negotiating with Revson? I don't doubt Regazzoni; sounds to me like Ferrari was playing games with Revson - not being honest.


Have to check timing. Lauda signed his contract when? Mid season? Ferrari maybe just kept all options open.


#45 Ralliart

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:23

Let's try to see this from another point of view.

Why hire Revson and Rega when they would have been both 35 in 1974?

It seems that Ferrari, after few troubled seasons, was trying to build for the future - mid-term, at least - with new technical [Forghieri's idea of low polar inertia car] and managerial [Montezemolo, FIAT] developments.

From what happened, it seems the concept was to have an old hand which knew the way they worked and developed cars [yes, Clay was a good tester: ask Forghieri] and an upcoming quick younger driver like Jarier and eventually Lauda, who hopefully would have become the number one and carried the team in the years ahead.

Old hand? Ok. Revson, older than Regga and 10 years (almost to the day) older than Lauda. Knew the way they worked? Lauda didn't know the way, almost won it in '74. It's assimilation that's important and, seems to me, Revson would've assimilated just fine in Maranello had it gone down that way. Perhaps the sequence was Regga returns, Revson negotiates, talks fail and Lauda is hired in late August. Age-wise, Revson was older than Regga and 10 years (almost to the day) older than Lauda. I still feel he was quicker than Regga and I've always been a big fan of the late Gianclaudio Regazzoni.

#46 john winfield

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:49

Old hand? Ok. Revson, older than Regga and 10 years (almost to the day) older than Lauda. Knew the way they worked? Lauda didn't know the way, almost won it in '74. It's assimilation that's important and, seems to me, Revson would've assimilated just fine in Maranello had it gone down that way. Perhaps the sequence was Regga returns, Revson negotiates, talks fail and Lauda is hired in late August. Age-wise, Revson was older than Regga and 10 years (almost to the day) older than Lauda. I still feel he was quicker than Regga and I've always been a big fan of the late Gianclaudio Regazzoni.


Interesting ideas, Ralliart, but when was the Lauda / Ferrari contract confirmed? Late August do you think, or do we not know for sure? Peter Revson was still negotiating, apparently quite seriously, with Ferrari until late September / early October. If Peter, to Ferrari's surprise, had found the lengthy telexed contract perfectly acceptable and, in early October, wanted to sign on the dotted line, I wonder what would have happened at Maranello. Perhaps someone here knows when exactly Clay and Niki considered their Ferrai contracts 'watertight'.

Edited by john winfield, 11 January 2013 - 10:50.


#47 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 13:27

But we all agree that Revson would have fit in and each combination succesful. Mind Ferrari also had made first contact with 'little bear' Scheckter. They could have opted for experienced team of R&R and jumping on a younger gun for 1975. Bottom line: Enzo was shrewd.

#48 john winfield

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 15:34

Arjan, it would be good to clarify the sequence of events in 1973 that brought Clay and Lauda to Ferrari the following year.

[Maybe OT, but we are discussing who would have driven for Ferrari in 1974 instead of Revson]

My knowledge (maybe well limited, I don't have all the references at hand now) is that - following Ickx refusal to continue with them (as well as Ferrari himself fed up of Ickx' attitude) and Merzario non renewal - Clay was always Ferrari's first choice to go back to the Scuderia. It seems they thought of Jarier who, it has been reported, couldn't free himself from his deal with Mosley at March. Then, more or less at same time Clay advised Ferrari about Lauda, after (it has been reported) Ferrari noticed Lauda for his performance at Monaco.

Now, Revson talking at Ontario with a number of teams (including the Ferrari team, which I suspect had nobody there that day, and for what purpose, Ferrari wasn't in USAC) means nothing. Everybody used to talk to everybody in the pitlane [don't know how it's done today, but I suppose the same, see Hamilton last year] and I don't doubt Ferrari themselves may have drawn up a list of possible drivers which may have included Revson (and Scheckter). I suspect that by the end of July, Zandvoort, Ferrari knew already his driver line-up for 1974. By the the Canadian GP - 23rd September - surely it was game over for everybody but Clay and Niki.


Rega, you may be right, but I suggest reading the Revson book.
The discussions at Ontario sound a little more serious than you suggest, and, sorry, I didn't mean Ferrari had someone at Ontario. What Revson writes is '...It was particularly hard at Ontario.....Tyler didn't know.....I was distracted because Bud Stanner and I were negotiating with Ferrari, Eagle and Shadow.'
The detailed discussions with Ferrari ('..we concluded a deal..') and the arrival of a firm offer, a telexed contract, are in the days prior to the Canadian GP, mid to late September. I think Peter finally turns Maranello down before the Watkins Glen race. Whatever Ferrari may have decided earlier that summer, Revson clearly felt he was in serious negotiations, with a firm offer, well into the autumn.

#49 Jean L

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 17:02


It must be around January 4, 1974, Jean Pierre Jarier had been at Maranello with his lawyer.
It was at the moment of the opening of the Salon de la Voiture de Course (Racing Cars Show of Paris),
We expected news but when he came back he had not signed because there was no way to be released from his contract with March.
Chinetti rated him very high after what he had done with the 712 Can-Am,he had talk to Enzo Ferrari.

#50 john winfield

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 17:02

John, I don't doubt your word, my copy of Mandel's Revson book is in Italy but I can check the two main Lauda's autobiographies tonight, where he relates the joke he had with his secretary (IIRC, a cousin who helped him) to disturb him "only if Ferrari calls". There should be indicated when he received such first approach.

Lucio


Lucio,
I wonder if Ferrari were about to reach the point where they had three contracted drivers signed for the Grand Prix team in 1974, without the possibility that year of offering good sports car drives. I can't believe they would have run three F1 cars, after a year in which they often ran just a single entry, and missed one race altogether. If Revson had decided that he liked the Ferrari contract, and signed, I wonder whether Enzo would have reneged on his deal with either Clay or Niki. We'll never know I suppose.
(Probably OT, but I read recently of someone being offered a Ferrari to run privately in Grand Prix. It wasn't Everest, and it probably wasn't 1974 - perhaps I'm thinking of Moss in 1962. Anyway, the idea of a third Ferrari in 1974, rather like Hailwood's McLaren that year, rather appeals - strong team, Lauda, Regazzoni and Revson, but I think Forghieri had enough to do with just the two cars!)
John