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Ayrton Senna on board a Brabham in 1983?


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#1 nigel5

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 19:06

Hy,

Someone says me that Ayrton Senna tests a Brabham BMW at Jacarepagua in 1983.

Does anyone can confirm me this information and does anyone possess a picture of this test :confused: :confused: :confused: ?

Thanks
Best regards

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#2 Gary C

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 19:46

the only F1 test I have heard of Senna doing prior to his Toleman deal was to drive a Williams FW08C at Donington in 83.

#3 Jordi #99

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 19:53

He also tested a McLaren, and the Toleman, I think. Ecclestone wanted him for Brabham, but I'm not sure he tested for them

#4 Bladrian

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 20:13

Ayrton Senna tested for a Brabham drive at Paul Ricard in 1983. He apparently wanted to join the team (run by Bernard Ecclestone) but Nelson Piquet wasn't happy about it.

#5 Geza Sury

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 20:23

Originally posted by Bladrian
Ayrton Senna tested for a Brabham drive at Paul Ricard in 1983. He apparently wanted to join the team (run by Bernard Ecclestone) but Nelson Piquet wasn't happy about it.

Ecclestone claims he had signed Senna for 1984. He still has the contract.

#6 bira

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 20:42

Some information on that test:

It took place in November 1983, one week after Senna tested the Tolman in Silverstone.

Senna was in Paul Ricard for a "shootout" alongside Mauro Baldi, Roberto Guerrero and Pierluigi Martini. They were all testing to replace Ricardo Patrese, alongside Piquet.

Ecclestone, who flew Senna back to Britain after the test, was very anxious to sign Senna. In fact, in later years Bernie claims he actually had a letter of intent signed by Senna. But it wasn't Senna who bailed out.

Rather, Brabham's primary sponsor - Parmalat - wanted an Italian to replace Patrese. Additionally, Piquet was vocal against Senna joining the team and that too, perhaps, played a part in Ecclestone's decision eventually not to take Senna. He called Senna a week after the test and told him it was not possible this time around.

Senna, according to his friend and then-roommate Gugelmin, wasn't too upset about this as he felt the Brabham was very difficult to drive. Gugelmin quoted Senna as saying the Brabham had been "pretty hard, the way the turbo boost would come in: really hard." Gugelmin went on to say that Senna "wasn't thrilled with the car. He said the boost was really strange and he tried to use long gears in certain areas so the boost wouldn't be so brutal - subsequently he found out that Nelson [Piquet] was using different gear ratios."

Senna, by the way, spun during the test on what he himself said would have been his best lap. The records show his fastest lap was 1:07.9 - not the fastest of the day - but because he ran on the club circuit you can't compare it to the laptimes of the French GP that year.

As for pictures? I've never seen a picture from that session and if there is one, it's probably not in the public domain.

#7 Felix Muelas

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 22:24

Originally posted by bira
I've never seen a picture from that session and if there is one, it's probably not in the public domain.


Nice challenge, the Editor herself wants to see whether that so-called "mythical" ability of TNF to solve historical things is well deserved...;) It is.

un abrazo, Bira, enjoy the picture ;)

Posted Image

#8 bira

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 22:32

:lol: I concede defeat, well done! :up:

#9 Marcel Schot

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 23:19

This is really amazing; less than 2 hours! Where did you get that from, Felix?

#10 nigel5

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 11:43

Felix Muelas :clap: :clap: :clap: , your the best !!! :love: :love: :love:

#11 fines

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 11:54

Originally posted by bira
Senna, by the way, spun during the test on what he himself said would have been his best lap. The records show his fastest lap was 1:07.9 - not the fastest of the day - but because he ran on the club circuit you can't compare it to the laptimes of the French GP that year.

Best times:

Piquet, Brabham/BMW, 1'02.60"
Prost, McLaren/TAG, 1'03.20"
Lauda, McLaren/TAG, 1'04.08"
Tambay, Renault, 1'04.20"
Laffite, Williams/Honda, 1'04.30"
Warwick, Renault, 1'04.50"
Palmer, Williams/Honda, 1'05.40"
Cesaris, Ligier/Ford, 1'06.50"
Ferté, Ligier/Ford, 1'07.70"
Baldi, Brabham/BMW, 1'07.90"
Senna, Brabham/BMW, 1'07.90"
Guerrero, Brabham/BMW, 1'08.60"
Martini, Brabham/BMW, 1'08.60"

#12 nigel5

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 12:08

Bira,

I am impressed by the precision of your news about this test :clap: :clap: :clap: . Thanks.
I would be happy if you were able to give to each other the times and the numbers of laps each drivers do during that test day.

Thanks.

#13 nigel5

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 12:11

Sorry Fines,

I haven’t seen your message – Great news :clap: :clap: :clap:

Have you got the numbers of laps by drivers ?

Thanks

#14 fines

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 12:53

I have pictures of Martini (2) and Senna
But no scanner

[yes, I'm a poet!]

A week later the following times were posted:

Alboreto, Ferrari, 1'02.55"
Arnoux, Ferrari, 1'02.69"
Rosberg, Williams/Honda, 1'03.23"
Patrese, Euroracing/Alfa Romeo, 1'03.26"
Cheever, Euroracing/Alfa Romeo, 1'04.70"
Cesaris, Ligier/Ford, 1'06.75"

Sorry, no number of laps!

Silverstone in October:

Senna, McLaren/Ford DFY, 1'14.3" (27 laps)
Bellof, McLaren/Ford DFV, 1'14.66" (30 laps)
Brundle, McLaren/Ford, 1'14.7" (28 laps)
Senna, McLaren/Ford with Qualifiers, 1'13.9"

#15 nigel5

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 13:53

Thanks a lot Fines :love: :love: :love:

If, in the future, you've got a scanner, record about my request, because I'm very interresting of these pictures of Martini, Senna and perhaps Baldi and Guerrero.

I am not speedy, I can wait a long time if neccesary to see your pictures.

One more time, thanks.

#16 Felix Muelas

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 15:01

Originally posted by Marcel Schot
Where did you get that from, Felix?

Auto-hebdo, I think ;)

Originally posted by fines
[yes, I'm a poet!]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Originally posted by irvine99
Maybe there are pictures of the other Brabham testers (Guerrero, Martini and Baldi)?

[yes, I´m a patient man!] ;)

Guerrero : (in company of no strangers)
Posted Image

Martini (out there with Warwick following him)
Posted Image

and Baldi
Posted Image

un abrazo
Felix

#17 fines

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 15:06

These pictures are a lot better than mine, which are small, grainy black & white newspaper like. Am I correct in assuming that I can remove this burden from my long-time memory?;)

#18 nigel5

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 18:40

Hy,

Can someone explain me, How to attach a picture at my message ?

Thanks

#19 Viktor

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 18:46

Originally posted by nigel5
Hy,

Can someone explain me, How to attach a picture at my message ?

Thanks

Check this topic, http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=32821

/Viktor

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#20 holiday

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 21:11

Another test, another pic.

Posted Image
Bellof and Senna at their McLaren test session 1983. Young, Wild and....Waiting.

#21 AndreasF1

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 21:51

Thank you for all these rare pictures!. AtlasF1 really brings out the best. :clap: :clap: :clap:

#22 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 23:51

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Fantastic, those pictures are really great!!!!!!
really appreciate that.

Louis

#23 ghinzani

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 00:16

Originally posted by holiday
Another test, another pic.

Posted Image
Bellof and Senna at their McLaren test session 1983. Young, Wild and....Waiting.


Wow! Imagine if you had this pair in your cars !! What about if a team had decided to employ this pair for 84 or 85... maybe Beatrice-Lola coming into F1. I wonder what sort of regard Stefan and Ayrton held each other in? They must have known each other was the best upcoming drivers and would probably someday fight out the WDC. If we look back at Berger vs Senna then we have probably the two quickest of the class of 84 to survive, Im sure Stefan would have pushed him more. I hope somewhere they are enacting new battles.

#24 Slyder

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 01:09

I never heard of the Brabham test before, but these are awesome pics. :clap: :clap: :clap:

BTW, that pic of Senna testing the Williams, how ironic that it has the #1 painted on it ;)

#25 MattFoster

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 12:12

Originally posted by fines
I have pictures of Martini (2) and Senna
But no scanner

[yes, I'm a poet!]

A week later the following times were posted:

Alboreto, Ferrari, 1'02.55"
Arnoux, Ferrari, 1'02.69"
Rosberg, Williams/Honda, 1'03.23"
Patrese, Euroracing/Alfa Romeo, 1'03.26"
Cheever, Euroracing/Alfa Romeo, 1'04.70"
Cesaris, Ligier/Ford, 1'06.75"

Sorry, no number of laps!

Silverstone in October:

Senna, McLaren/Ford DFY, 1'14.3" (27 laps)
Bellof, McLaren/Ford DFV, 1'14.66" (30 laps)
Brundle, McLaren/Ford, 1'14.7" (28 laps)
Senna, McLaren/Ford with Qualifiers, 1'13.9"


Any pics of Patrese, Cheever Alboreto and DeCesaris in their then "new" rides?

#26 fines

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 15:35

Yes, but...

Originally posted by fines
... no scanner!

:(

#27 barrykm

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 19:10

Amazing stuff. :clap: ..which is why TNF has to be the best place to be..!!

#28 cheesy poofs

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 19:54

Senna's first test with Williams ( at Donington ) was well documented by Keith Sutton who had befriended the brazilian.

#29 mikedeering

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 12:44

Can we have a whip round for Fines to buy a scanner with? I think the results will be worth the expense!

#30 fines

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 19:30

:lol: Yes, but I'd probably spend 25 hours 8 days a week for the next 250 years scanning all those pics you'd want! :lol:


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#31 da Silva

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 23:54

Thanks for all the pictures :up: The Brabham I havn´t seen so that´s great!!

#32 Manson

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Posted 04 March 2003 - 20:41

Most of these pics of Senna, Guerrero etc. were from a Grand Prix International issue in late 83. I have it at home somewhere.

#33 fines

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Posted 04 March 2003 - 20:52

Wonder how Senna managed to drive with that fold around the steering wheel...

And Manson, that's a nice signature! :lol: :rotfl: