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Marc Surer


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#1 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 17:41

I always had a soft spot for swiss driver Marc Surer. He had some good backing from BMW in his F2 days and ultimately made it to F1 after his stint in F2. He was also very unlucky to be involved in two serious crashes in 1980 & 1982 ( incidentally- both crashes happened at Cluhouse corner at Kyalami :eek: ) which severely damaged both his feet and ankles. After stints with ATS, Ensign and other mid-field teams, he became Nelson Piquet's teammate at Brabham in 1985.
Does anyone know why he could not keep his drive at Brabham ?

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#2 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 18:07

I don't know for sure, but I think that the Brabham folks were not really that impressed with his driving, and when they were given the opportunity to sign de Angelis, they thought they were about to hire a better driver.

Surer had one great race in 1985, the European GP at Brands Hatch (and a fairly good one at Monza if my memory serves me right), but they were towards the end of the season, and Surer was qiote possibly already replaced for 1986 by that time.

#3 gazdean

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 18:19

Marc Surer is currently employed as a sort of Tiff Needel (sp?) on a Swiss motoring TV programme.
He does a good job and seems a likeable sort.

#4 Rob29

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 19:06

So more than I comparison with Tiff Needell. They both drove the Ensign F1
Marc 2 x DNQ,one retired.
Tiff one DNQ Monaco,one retired.
I have also seen Marc comentating on German TV F1.

#5 ensign14

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 19:27

Bit unfair for Brabham not to be impressed with him - he only came in half way through the season, and scored points in fewer races than it took Piquet. He replaced Hesnault who, IIRC, managed to get a DNQ.

He had a safe 2nd at Brands until the BMW erupted and couild have had 2nd at Monaco 83 in the Arrows until Derek Warwick took him out.

#6 30ft penguin

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 19:45

Originally posted by gazdean
Marc Surer is currently employed as a sort of Tiff Needel (sp?) on a Swiss motoring TV programme.
He does a good job and seems a likeable sort.

He's also one of the commentators for the F1 coverage of the German pay TV channel Premiere. Surer seems very friendly and funny and does, as you said, a good job at the microphone. He is (of course) well informed and doesn't favour one driver over the others - something the RTL commentators, for example, sadly do. It would be pretty sad to lose the Premiere coverage now that digital TV is said to die. Thank God there is still hope - the Premiere program guide says:

(all times GMT+1)

06.03.03 00:55 1st free practice in Melbourne
06.03.03 02:50 first qualifying
07.03.03 22:55 2nd and 3rd free practice
07.03.03 02:50 2nd qualifying
08.03.03 23:25 warm up
08.03.03 04:00 race

So it looks as if at least SOME coverage will be provided. It's interesting that Premiere still advertises the multi channel feed, as if nothing had changed since last season.

#7 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 20:28

The man showed lots of dedication and courage to fight back from the nasty injuries in got F1 and also the one that ended his driving career in the Essen rally at the wheel of an Ford RS200 in 1986.

#8 fines

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 20:34

:lol: Well, that should be Hessen Rallye, I guess!

#9 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 20:40

Oooups. :blush:
Thanks fines

#10 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 21:57

I had an half-hour conversation with Marc Surer in the garages at the first
Detroit GP, I believe that was one of the years he was in the Ensign because the other Ensign driver was Elio Salazar who all the mechanics were
really trashing. I could be wrong about that. My point is this, compared to
Prost and some of the others who I also talked to that weekend, he was by
far the most polite, most informative, most patience and most pleasant. I walked away totally impressed by the man.

If I remember correctly he co-driver was killed in that tragic rally accident. I remember seeing film/video on it and it was a BIG, BAD one!

#11 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 21:59

Yes, his co-driver was killed in the accident :cry:

#12 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:07

Originally posted by David M. Kane

My point is this, compared to Prost and some of the others who I also talked to that weekend, he was by far the most polite, most informative, most patience and most pleasant. I walked away totally impressed by the man.



David,

Somehow I'm not at all surprised by what you're saying. Sounds like a true gentleman. His brilliant drive in the Ensign at the 1981 Brazilian GP stands out in my mind. He came home in an amazing 4th that day !

#13 Felix Muelas

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:17

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
His brilliant drive in the Ensign at the 1981 Brazilian GP...


An amazing weekend for him ;)

Felix

#14 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:22

Thanks Felix.
That was indeed great. :)

#15 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:26

Does anyone know whether Surer was sitting on the left or right side of his car when he crashed in the Hessen Rally? I'm asking because the car struck the tree on the left side of the car, which would mean that the person situated on the left side would be more likely to get seriously injured or killed.

#16 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:33

IIRC - Sure was driving from the right side.
This link shows the severity of his crash. :cry:

#17 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:35

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
IIRC - Sure was driving from the right side.
This link shows the severity of his crash. :cry:


That's what I expected. Was it the fire that got to his co-driver, or did the initial impact inflict the fatal injuries?

#18 jarama

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:37

Rediscoveryx,

I don't know for sure, but many -if not all- RS200s were LHD.

Carles.

#19 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 22:45

IIRC - Surer was ejected from the wreck...his co-driver wasn't.

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#20 Slyder

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 23:40

Could anyone please be so kind to translate that link for me?

#21 TBK-

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 00:45

Originally posted by irvine99
I have a small clip of that crash. It's about 3 MB. If someone is interested i can mail it, but it's very horrible (heli-view like the animation).


That wouldn't happen to be my video that you're talking about, would it?

#22 TBK-

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 01:50

Originally posted by irvine99
I'm not sure, i downloaded it the last days and renamed it to sort it in my F1 vid folder.

irvine99


I know you downloaded it from my site, but that is irrelevant now.

The clip in question is available on my forum at this link:
http://tbk.fameflame...opic.php?t=2315

But i have to warn you that this is a fatal accident and viewer discretion is adviced.

#23 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 02:00

Surer actually announced his retirement from F1 racing in January 1985.

"I'm not finished with with motorsport - I'm just getting out of F1 to start a new career in rallying."

It was reported that he was getting progressively more disenchanted with his Grand Prix progress over the past couple of seasons.

#24 AndreasF1

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 02:00

The one thing I like most about Surer is his beautiful ex-wife Yolanda. She has super-model qualities and is an acomplished racing driver as well! If someone has a picture please post. :p

#25 Paul Newby

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 02:58

I alsways considered Surer to be underated. In his days at Arrows I thought he was on a par with Boutsen. The only competitive car he ever drove was the Brabham and I remember his drive in the '85 European GP was very impressive.

He was quite a versatile driver in sportscars and rally cars as well, but unfortunately will be remembered for that horrid RS200 accident.

I believe he has had the odd historic outing in his F2 championship winning March-BMW in recent years.

#26 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 06:10

My god! Surer crash is really awful. It look liked it was Hollywood, but it wasn't.

#27 maxie

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 06:26

The thing I remember about Surer is in Monaco '82, he let Patrese get past approaching the Loewe's by staying at the outside, and Patrese spun while running on the damp inside. Later he was quite hesitant in overtaking Pironi when the Frenchman stalled in the tunnel.

#28 deangelis86

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 12:10

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
I don't know for sure, but I think that the Brabham folks were not really that impressed with his driving, and when they were given the opportunity to sign de Angelis, they thought they were about to hire a better driver.


It was more to do with the fact that for Murray to realise the BT55, he needed to get down on one knee and bow to his sponsors demands.

Olivetti and Pirelli both demanded Italian drivers for the 1986 season, so the decision on Surer was probably taken out of Ecclestone's hands.

#29 Lutz G

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 16:33

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
I always had a soft spot for swiss driver Marc Surer. He had some good backing from BMW in his F2 days and ultimately made it to F1 after his stint in F2. He was also very unlucky to be involved in two serious crashes in 1980 & 1982 ( incidentally- both crashes happened at Cluhouse corner at Kyalami :eek: ) which severely damaged both his feet and ankles. After stints with ATS, Ensign and other mid-field teams, he became Nelson Piquet's teammate at Brabham in 1985.
Does anyone know why he could not keep his drive at Brabham ?


These days, eh :D

Posted Image

About Kyalami:

Here a shot of what's left of his ATS after Kyalami 1980:

Posted Image

In today's cars he would have walked away...

About Brabham:

In his late Brabham BMW days he had lot's of problems with hard braking (after the Kyalami accidents he wasn't 100 percent fit anymore).

1985 he replaces Hesnault who had lot's of difficulties setting up the Brabham. The chassis was a dog (eine Gurke :D ) - Piquet's was fine. Marc told them that it felt strange. Much Later they found faults in the design of that particular chassis.

After Kyalami, Brand Hatch, he dropped out on P3 after 63 laps (he overtook de Angelis and Senna before) and Adelaide he lost interest in F1 - "perhaps I'll never make it on the podium"....

I highly recommend (as posted in other threads)

http://www.atlasf1.c...y=&pagenumber=5

(you have to scroll down a little bit)

his book "Motorsport Explosiv" (also printed in English language) - one of the best motorsport books I've read so far....

@David M. Kane


I had an half-hour conversation with Marc Surer in the garages at the first
Detroit GP, I believe that was one of the years he was in the Ensign because the other Ensign driver was Elio Salazar who all the mechanics were
really trashing. I could be wrong about that. My point is this, compared to
Prost and some of the others who I also talked to that weekend, he was by
far the most polite, most informative, most patience and most pleasant. I walked away totally impressed by the man.



The other day I mailed Marc that I couldn't get his book (as mentioned above) anymore (out of print). One day later I got mail from him "no problem - give me your address and I sent you a copy". I thanked him and asked him to sign my copy. Two weeks later I received a package from Basel "Für Lutz" What a nice bloke!

Lutz

#30 Slyder

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 03:59

who's the guy in the middle?

Boutsen is on the left, Surer on the right, that I know.

#31 maxie

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 04:09

Eddie Cheever?

#32 David McKinney

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 06:14

Left to right:
Manfred Winkelhock, Eddie Cheever, Marc Surer

#33 Slyder

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 22:44

oops :blush:

didn't recognize Winkelhock with the mustache.

That's Eddie? Man, he looked so different in those years.

#34 Gary C

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 22:50

I know Marc from working with him on the Digital F1 TV coverage. He's a likeable, knowledgeable guy. And yes, still walks with a slight limp!

#35 cheesy poofs

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 22:54

Eddie musn't be any older than 20 on that pic.

#36 David M. Kane

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 01:30

From the looks of the front of that car he's lucky to have just a limp!
There is nothing there! The front of the car is basically gone! Any idea
how fast that corner is speed wise...100mph, 120mph. I'm not knowledgeable
of that circuit since I've never been there. I just of the horrible deaths
of Revson and Tom Pryce. Plus the near miss when Reggo and Mike the Bike
had their accident.

Lastly, I thought Manfred was pretty good too. He left us too soon to show
how far he could have gone.

#37 Lutz G

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 16:22

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
Eddie musn't be any older than 20 on that pic.


That pic is from 1977. When is Eddie born?

Talking about Eddie Cheever. A "few" years later Eddie got some trouble with another ex-f1-driver called Eliseo Salazar (or Saladbar - as Jason Priestley calls him). Salazar's Team boss A.J. Foyt wasn't happy that somebody kicked his pilot out of the race. Please send the kids out of the room before you play that mp3 (1141 kb - 30.6.2001 IRL/Richmond) :lol: No - this went *not* on the air...



Back to Surer and Kyalami 1980:

@David M. Kane

He lost his breaks on the way to Clubhouse (a sharp left), "I tried to pump and hit by accident the gas pedal. The engine reved up and the ATS went even faster of the track. Boom - all went black.
They needed 40 (!) minutes to cut me out of the wreck."

@all

Marc Surer's superb Book "Motorsport Explosiv" seems to be available from his Website!

www.marcsurer.com

Perhaps you have to ask him if it's also available in english language.

contact@marcsurer.com

Lutz

#38 cheesy poofs

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 16:49

Originally posted by Lutz G

That pic is from 1977. When is Eddie born?



Jan. 10 1958

Also, I have footage of Surer's 1980 crash. Not pretty...

#39 TBK-

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 22:03

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
Also, I have footage of Surer's 1980 crash. Not pretty...


I have footage of Marc Surer's accident at Kyalami in 1980 as well.

I posted it over at my forum:
http://tbk.fameflame...opic.php?t=2394

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#40 cheesy poofs

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 22:24

TBK, I have the same thing which I recorded over 15 years ago.

#41 Frank S

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 03:05

Two versions of a photo from Long Beach, 1983:

Posted Image

Full size (760x5??)
http://www.fototime....999AB1/orig.jpg



Posted Image

Full size (760x5??)
http://www.fototime....6B27A3/orig.jpg



Frank S

#42 Lutz G

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 08:12

Originally posted by TBK-


I have footage of Marc Surer's accident at Kyalami in 1980 as well.

I posted it over at my forum:
http://tbk.fameflame...opic.php?t=2394


Interesting! I've never seen footage of this incident before. Please keep the file a view days "online" I have to ask a friend who got a flatrate to download it for me.

Thanks!

Lutz

#43 Lutz G

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 14:13

I had a look at the clip. Really a nasty shunt. BTW: You can see Wilson Fittipaldi (with the yellow shirt) helping Marc. Surer wrote in his book :" My knees were bleeding - they continued trying to pull me out of the car. I tried everything to prevent that they pull me out that rude. Suddenly someone jumped from the wall who knows what he es doing. Wilson Fittipaldi. Wilson saw the whole accident - he pulls some peaces of the wreck away to see where my legs are. Then he asked for tools to get me out. Then Dr.Grajales-Robles arrived, even faster than Sid Watkins...

Lutz

#44 Carlo

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 15:35

Hi guys,

good to learn that Surer isn't forgotten, although he never won a GP.

I just want to add some interesting informations about Surers' current activities.

He is something like an advisor for a German team of architects and designers that build GP-tracks.
He represents the "drivers opinion" in their plannings.

He was involved in the design of the circuit in Sepang Malaysia, the changes of the Hockenheimring and the Nürburgring. And of the future F1-tracks in Russia, Asia or whereever

Ciao Carlo :smoking:

#45 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 16:16

Originally posted by irvine99
Unbelievable that Surer is a man of the team that destroyed Hockenheim. Very sad!

irvine99


We've been over this before, but once again: The team that destroyed Hockenheim were the ones that decided that the track was to be altered, not the ones who designed the new layout.

#46 David McKinney

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 17:53

...and how much worse might it have been if Surer had not been involved?

#47 Carlo

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 21:27

@ irvine99,

in my post before, I avoided to value the track changes of Hockenheim and of the GP-track of the Nürburgring.

Good that you express you opinion very clearly about that.

When I was at the GP-track of the "Ring" in October, I also thought what did they do to the track?
Although the Nordschleife stands above all, we all got used to the layout of the GP-track.
We all know that the changes were mainly iniciated because of commercial reasons.

But I also agree to David McKinney

...and how much worse might it have been if Surer had not been involved?



Ciao Carlo :smoking:

#48 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 21:54

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
We've been over this before, but once again: The team that destroyed Hockenheim were the ones that decided that the track was to be altered, not the ones who designed the new layout.


We might have... but it's worth repeating...

Hockenheim was really nothing to begin with... In 1970 we bewailed it being used for the German GP. The whole cycle is little other than proof that we forget the past all too easily.

#49 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 10:44

In 1970 we were comparing it to the Nordschleife, the old Spa, Montjuich etc, and obviously it was not a patch on them. Today, compared to Hungaroring, Magny Cours, the new Imola etc, it was, OK, not a classic, but refreshingly different. Now it's just like all the rest. The problem for us old farts is not that we forget the past, rather that we remember it too well for our own good. :

#50 Lutz G

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 11:55

Originally posted by Tim Murray
In 1970 we were comparing it to the Nordschleife, the old Spa, Montjuich etc, and obviously it was not a patch on them. Today, compared to Hungaroring, Magny Cours, the new Imola etc, it was, OK, not a classic, but refreshingly different. Now it's just like all the rest. The problem for us old farts is not that we forget the past, rather that we remember it too well for our own good. :


I could not have said it better. I got the Hockenheim GP '77 "live on tape". Remember, it was the first German GP in Hockenheim after years at the Nordschleife. A greasy reporter asked Hans "Striezel" Stuck after the race: Isn't this track exiting? - Hans: No, Hockenheim is "stinklangweilig" (means very very very boring....) :lol: You just have to love Stuck! :D

But I must add that I always liked Hockenheim. I was too young for the Nordschleife days and my first GP weekend was in 1978 at Hockenheim watching Peterson getting sideways (yes even possible with the Lotus 79)

Lutz